Equal distribution of regions

[Alister_Thomas]

Alister_Thomasa: I think you are taking the bs by P.D. little too literally. You might be expecting too much from a video game studio. I'm not denying the bias, it's definitely there.

Yes, you're right, I know

Unless you can already tell, I take my motor racing far too seriously

Gran Turismo, being so good, is about the only game I can really pin my hopes on for delivering what I'd really like to see in a motor racing simulation (which, IMO, the GT series *definitely* is!).

Congregation, pray with me

 

[a6m5]

Unless you can already tell, I take my motor racing far too seriously

You are not alone you know... especially at this forum!

 

[Alister_Thomas]

You are not alone you know... especially at this forum!

... and loving every minute of it!

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

Realisticly though, GT is always gonna have more Japanese cars than any other country, all the complaining in the world isn't gonna change this. If you don't like it no one's forcing you to buy it. I'm not terribly interested in new cars from Europe or America, I think most of them look crap and weigh too much though sadly Japanese cars are going the same way. I would far rather see more cars from the 60's, 70's and 80's than more new cars. A lot of the older cars in GT4 don't really have any other cars to compete against.

 

[iceburns288]

PD is Japanese, they've just representin the home country and I'm sure the game is massively popular over there, and the people want to drive what they can relate to.

I think the distribution of the cars is stupid. In terms of Skylines, there's too many different variations with tiny little differences, like the two white N1 R34s that are exactly the same, but one has a carbon hood. ???? And there are tons of examples of that, yet I wanted to drive the E55 wagen but only the sedan was available. I guess that's ok...

BTW I think in GT4 the distribution is more like this:
5 percent Aussie
20 percent Euro
25 percent American
50 percent Asian

 

[Alister_Thomas]

Realisticly though, GT is always gonna have more Japanese cars than any other country, all the complaining in the world isn't gonna change this. If you don't like it no one's forcing you to buy it .

Absolutely, couldn't agree more - but it ain't gonna stop me from *****in'

And anyway, if I were to avoid buying games because there are aspects of them I don't like, I'd have a grand total of *0* games in my collection.

If I didn't like Gran Turismo, I wouldn't be here!

 

[niky]

If you're writing the history of the world, and you know it's going to take you quite a while, you start writing what you know best first. Your own local history.

PD isn't the only one guilt of this kind of thing. English language World History books will harp on about the accomplishments of Greeks, Romans, Angles and then American colonists, and only pay lip service to Chinese, Indian and American Indian culture.... well, they used to... over time, they pick up little pieces here and there and become more complete.

That's the way GT is. They started out Japano-centric, doing what they knew best, and then started including stuff from other markets, making the game's appeal wider and wider (big step backwards in GT3 for not including muscle cars and classics). GT4 is a big step up from GT3 in terms of representation of other countries and maufacturers, both in terms of the number of manufacturers and the number of models represented. So why are we complaining? Merely because there are less of them than Japanese cars.

The GT encyclopedia/history will never be complete. There are just too many cars, and there's too little time for them to test/model every single one of them. They will continue being Nippon-centric, not by choice, but because there are simply so many Japanese cars available to them and so easily at hand, while they have to spend more time and money hunting down and testing "foreign" cars. A lot of the testing requires manufacturer support.

Which is why Toyota, Ford and BMW have a lot of cars in the game, because they lent time, resources and data to PD. Pissed-off because the Corvette Z06 in the game hasn't been updated for years? GM may be partly to blame. Dodge Chrysler and Ford seem to get their new cars in just fine.

I'm not putting down guys who want more American/European/Australian cars... I want them, too. But we can't lay all of the blame for their absence on PD.

 

[a6m5]

By looking at the car list on GT4, you can tell that P.D. definitely is making huge effort to add more cars from the West. Well said, Niky. 👍

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

I think we should give PD more time to get recognized by more Americans/Europeans/Australian companies. We can at least see that they tried getting more cars into the game and there really are more cars we like.

With the previous datas in hand, PD is probably trying to get more car data right now to make us all happy in GT5. Just be patient please.

 

[FoolKiller]

PD (or makers of the GT series - whatever!) claim that the series represents an "encyclopedia of motorcars" and/or a "history of the motorcar/motorsport" etc. (you get my drift).

I am saying that this claim is largely spurious simply because of the disproportionate amount of Japanese cars in the game.

For me to leave this one alone, PD are going to have to drop the claim that the GT series represents an "encyclopedia of motorcars" (or similar claims) because it isn't!

Not to pick at nits, but they said they hope for it to one day become an encyclopedia of cars, not that it is. That was in an interview with KY after GT2 came out.

I agree that it is very far from it but accusing them of misrepresentation is wrong because they never claimed it to be an encyclopedia, but they hope that it will one day become one. That is probably a long way down the road. However, GT4 is closer than any other game has come.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

All this talk about wonderful japanese / north american / australian / european cars....what about our beloved chinese cars ?!?

 

[Dave A]

Exactley, GT is closer than any other game has come, and while I'd love to see the UK and other placse better represented, you can't give PD crap for what they've achieved, you can ask for more, but don't give them crap.

 

[Ford 429 Hemi]

speaking of data, there are three very large and impressive file cabinets full of data I would love to see in the next GT....
you all know what I mean...
heck actualy its 4
2 Italian
1 German
1 Swedish

 

[Alister_Thomas]

I agree that it is very far from it but accusing them of misrepresentation is wrong because they never claimed it to be an encyclopedia, but they hope that it will one day become one. That is probably a long way down the road. However, GT4 is closer than any other game has come.

Indeed it is!

I can't remember verbatim what has or hasn't been said about the GT series but the one about GT4 representing the "history" of motorcars was the one that really got me going...

 

[Alister_Thomas]

That's the way GT is. They started out Japano-centric, doing what they knew best, and then started including stuff from other markets, making the game's appeal wider and wider (big step backwards in GT3 for not including muscle cars and classics). GT4 is a big step up from GT3 in terms of representation of other countries and maufacturers, both in terms of the number of manufacturers and the number of models represented. So why are we complaining? Merely because there are less of them than Japanese cars.

Even that I'm not entirely sure of... (this would definitely be a moot point if we were to consider the range and spectrum of cars ever made since their inception).

Do you read an English publication called "Motorsport"??? (or, indeed, any kind of historical motoring publication whether it be magazine or book). If so then tell me, how many Japanese cars do you ever see there? (it's a rhetorical question). You hardly read about any because there weren't any!!!!!! (well, very, very few).

With this in mind, it ought be considered when assessing PD's claim for GT4 to be a representation of the history of the motorcar (or whatever it was they said - it was something to this effect).

*I* certainly did when I first bought GT4, thinking there were going to be far more "foreign" (by that I mean non-Japanese) cars. All the ads for the game led me to think that there might be...

As for the licensing issue, I think that was/is the reason there aren't any Ferraris in the game. Ferrari (from my understanding) simply wouldn't give them a license! Which is a crying shame, because if anyone on this Earth of ours were to represent them (ie. Ferrari) and their interests, I have no doubt that PD would be the people for the job!

My vision for GT5 would be to see as many eras as possible that have ever been involved in motoring, since the late 1800's, be represented (in some way) *including* Japanese cars.

So there!

 

[FoolKiller]

Indeed it is!

I can't remember verbatim what has or hasn't been said about the GT series but the one about GT4 representing the "history" of motorcars was the one that really got me going...

That really depends on what they meant by history. When I heard it I took it to be an explanation of whay such "useless" cars as the Motor Carriage and the Model T are in the game. They aren't really a car for racing but they show some of the first motorized vehicles. I mean, it is one thing to see them in museums and pictures but it is quite different to actually drive one.

I do, however, agree with you that a handful of "cars" made before my grandparents were born do not represent the history of motorcars but it does allow them to make that statement without any other game being able to challenge it. It feels like it was a novelty for a PR gimmick. I think that every advertisment I saw that showed in-game stuff made sure the Model T and some classics were shown. It gave the appearance that there was a new aspect to the game. Unfortunately due to the make up of special cars and whatnot the game turned out to be, in my opinion, a bigger and updated (slightly better) version of previous GTs.

I want to see things like Packards and a Tucker or something along those lines. I would love to see some 1920s and 30s cars and then maybe have a Chicago track so I can emulate an old gangster style police chase.

So, while they didn't lie they did mislead on the historic representation part.

 

[Alister_Thomas]

That really depends on what they meant by history. When I heard it I took it to be an explanation of whay such "useless" cars as the Motor Carriage and the Model T are in the game. They aren't really a car for racing but they show some of the first motorized vehicles. I mean, it is one thing to see them in museums and pictures but it is quite different to actually drive one.

I do, however, agree with you that a handful of "cars" made before my grandparents were born do not represent the history of motorcars but it does allow them to make that statement without any other game being able to challenge it. It feels like it was a novelty for a PR gimmick. I think that every advertisment I saw that showed in-game stuff made sure the Model T and some classics were shown. It gave the appearance that there was a new aspect to the game. Unfortunately due to the make up of special cars and whatnot the game turned out to be, in my opinion, a bigger and updated (slightly better) version of previous GTs.

I want to see things like Packards and a Tucker or something along those lines. I would love to see some 1920s and 30s cars and then maybe have a Chicago track so I can emulate an old gangster style police chase.

So, while they didn't lie they did mislead on the historic representation part.

Yeah, I agree that it's a bit harsh to say they're actually lying... just a bit misleading

I remember seeing ads for GT4 in magazines before it's release. Seeing cars advertised like the Alpine-Renault A110, Model T Ford, Mercedes Benz SL500 etc. got me really excited (and I'm still happy cars like that are in the game!).

I have to ask: seeing as though I'm highly unlikely to get all Golds in the Special License tests, what's the Model T like?? Similar to the Benz carriages?? (ie. no power etc.). I'm assuming there's no way of getting it other than gold medals...

 

[niky]

Well, like I said... you write a history book from what you know first... and what they know is Japanese cars. How long it will take them to include everything else is anybody's guess.

And bad BAD Ferrari! Stupid video-game licensing deals have yet again kept them out of GT, even though it seemed like they were going to get into GT4 (testing and negotiation occured, but nothing, nada, zilch came of it).

It'll make me sad when we lose the Corvette. There was an article a while back regarding the slow progress tuners have been making on the current (C6) Corvette. Seems GM doesn't want to share ANYTHING with aftermarket tuners. Not specs, not engineering details... not even ECU programming codes. Any wonder that Lingenfelter put a C5 engine in their new C6? GM didn't even give the codes to them. They may have since then, but I doubt it. GM has a relationship with EMI, which is really touchy about intellectual property rights... which means they don't want to share the goods. Which also means, hey, PD can't get the data it needs to put the C6 in the game, although several other manufacturers have cars in the game that were mere prototypes at the time programming was finished. So what do we get? The same old Z06. Not even the tail-end Z06, but the exact same early model we got in GT3.

And so it goes. As long as Gran Turismo is a video-game, and as long as video games are profit-bound, both on the creative side and on the licensing side, we're not going to see everything we ought to see in it.

As for historical cars, I expect even more next time. But you never know. They may disappoint again. What I'm glad for is the fact that many of the historical cars put in are fun. And that's the best reason for anything to be in this game.

 

[Freddie]

I have to ask: seeing as though I'm highly unlikely to get all Golds in the Special License tests, what's the Model T like?? Similar to the Benz carriages?? (ie. no power etc.). I'm assuming there's no way of getting it other than gold medals...

Sorry, but it's golds only.

As for driving it, it's very amusing. Mostly thanks to its engine note and hood view. Other than that, its not fast but not painfully slow either. It's capable of roughly 55 mph, and has enough torque to climb hills, so it's nothing like the Benz and the Daimler. For a comparison, it's capable of roughly the same times as the Subaru 360 on Nürburgring, if not faster.

 

[Dave A]

It'll make me sad when we lose the Corvette. There was an article a while back regarding the slow progress tuners have been making on the current (C6) Corvette. Seems GM doesn't want to share ANYTHING with aftermarket tuners. Not specs, not engineering details... not even ECU programming codes. Any wonder that Lingenfelter put a C5 engine in their new C6? GM didn't even give the codes to them. They may have since then, but I doubt it. GM has a relationship with EMI, which is really touchy about intellectual property rights... which means they don't want to share the goods. Which also means, hey, PD can't get the data it needs to put the C6 in the game, although several other manufacturers have cars in the game that were mere prototypes at the time programming was finished. So what do we get? The same old Z06. Not even the tail-end Z06, but the exact same early model we got in GT3.

The C6 has already appeared in Forza and is set to appear in a few other games so theres no reason it won't be in GT4. PD don't need to know everything just weight, power and torque properties and a few other things. They don't need to know the ECU programming codes or things of that nature. Most of the data is weights, dimensions, positions and power figures, none of which are hard to find out.

 

[niky]

Well, we can only hope they do get it. But you can really tell in GT4 which companies were more eager to pimp their cars on the game. Ford has been taking the right track with the Mustang, pushing to have it included in the game, throwing them at tuners for carshow displays... that's what it takes to keep the younger generation interested in your geriatric marquees. It's something they should do for the Corvette... today's kids are tomorrow's buyers.

 

[Dave A]

You don't need to push to have a car put in GT4, just agree to let them have it in. Look at TVR, they're not very well known through the world but they basically got a little lucky getting asked to be in GT1 and as a result they became well liked in Japan, asa thanks for that Wheeler gave PD a contract that basically said feel free to include any of our cars for any Gran Turismo game you ever make, as a result new TVR's have laways been in GT games, cars like the Sagaris and Typhon missed out in GT4 but GT4 was out last year, the Typhon isn't out yet and the Sagaris came out only a month or so back, so thats not suprising. Some companies simply ask fopr too much to have certain cars included and PD are just going to say well we'll take theos cars fromthat other company instead then, it's not much skin off thier back. If Ford want the next Mustang in a future GT game they only need to say okay, not only if you...

 

[MaverickOZ]

25% Australia... YES YES YES!!!

at least add a little bit more aussie... the good old aussie cars or even some aussie tracks like bathurst or phillip island! some australian tracks are voted best in the world and there not in the game! but if they do add bathurst i expect some classic holdens/fords added to the game!

 

[Danny]

I think there are too many Japanese cars.

 

[MaverickOZ]

i think everyone agrees is someway there is too many japanese cars but the game is created in japan by the japanese.... till us other countries catch uo with japan in technology (tough chance) the big games will always be dominated by japanese cars, characters etc.

 

[Danny]

Korea, Italy and France are closing in fast...

 

[JDM'er]

I have forza (don't have GT4 as my ps2 blew up b4 it came out ) and one of the things I miss is the Japanese cars because 90% of the time i favour Japanese cars (Mainly for tuning as there far easier to tune to big bhp numbers and still be drivable) and thats why the Gt series appeals to me so add more Japanese but on that note add more Euro's/americain cars to even it out

 

[niky]

@Live4Speed: That's right. You just need to show it to them. But there are companies who actually speeded up the process somewhat by lending PD testing data (Toyota, Ford and BMW). If more of the companies saw Gran Turismo for what it is... one of the best car advertisements on Earth... and wrote it off as a nearly cost free marketing scheme instead of holding out for licensing fees, everyone would be happy.

 

[Dave A]

^ I agree with that.

 

[Hapul]

That'll never work.

I'll take the example you give. Say you've got 100 cars. That means 25 of them are American, 25 European, 25 Asian & 25 are Australian. I can name 25 cars from each of the regions no bother at all, but 25 Australian ones? Can you name 25 Australian cars?

Well.... I live in australia and do agree that having the same amount of cars as other regions isn't the solution.

There is however a need to have a few more than four road cars and a race car (to be honest that race car hasn't been mentioned or thought about for years ).