F1 Engine usage so far 2010

[Ardius]

Seeing as this usually gets lost in the race threads and is quite important to how the season will pan out, heres a thread keeping track of the engine usage as per the post-2008 regulations on 8 engines for the whole season.
The FIA technical report is here:
http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/tur-race-report.pdf

Engine usage after the Turkish Grand Prix:
Number Car Driver New engines used so far
01 McLaren Mercedes Jenson Button 4
02 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 4
03 Mercedes Benz Michael Schumacher 4
04 Mercedes Benz Nico Rosberg 4
05 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 4
06 RBR Renault Mark Webber 3
07 Ferrari Felipe Massa 4
08 Ferrari Fernando Alonso 4
09 Williams Cosworth Rubens Barrichello 4
10 Williams Cosworth Nico Hülkenberg 3
11 Renault Robert Kubica 3
12 Renault Vitaly Pertrov 3
14 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 4
15 Force India Mercedes Vitantonio Liuzzi 4
16 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 4
17 STR Ferrari Jaime Alguersuari 4
18 Lotus Cosworth Jarno Trulli 4
19 Lotus Cosworth Heikki Kovalainen 4
20 HRT Cosworth Karun Chandhok 3
21 HRT Cosworth Bruno Senna 4
22 BMW Sauber Ferrari Pedro De La Rosa 4
23 BMW Sauber Ferrari Kamui Kobayashi 4
24 Virgin Cosworth Timo Glock 3
25 Virgin Cosworth Lucas Di Grassi 4

So, so far Petrov has had the best engine usage, with only using his 3rd engine at Turkey. Ferrari have had the worst engine usage so far, using 4 engines before Turkey.

 

[Peter]

So, it looks like the Renault is the most reliable, and longest lasting engine. Ferrari had the worst, but they seemed to have fixed it now.

 

[dxm8975]

So, it looks like the Renault is the most reliable, and longest lasting engine. Ferrari had the worst, but they seemed to have fixed it now.

Yep, Renault is the best team to oblige their drivers to keep using the same engine during the championship, so far it lasts the longest of all. By comparison, Ferrari is the worst to do it, they were forced to change it until all drivers had a race in Istanbul.

 

[Ardius]

Engine usage after Belgian GP:

Round 13 of 19

01 McLaren Jenson Button 6
02 McLaren Lewis Hamilton 6
03 Mercedes Michael Schumacher 6
04 Mercedes Nico Rosberg 6
05 Red Bull Sebastian Vettel 6
06 Red Bull Mark Webber 6
07 Ferrari Felipe Massa 7
08 Ferrari Fernando Alonso 7
09 Williams Rubens Barrichello 6
10 Williams Nico Hülkenberg 6
11 Renault Robert Kubica 5
12 Renault Vitaly Petrov 5
14 FI Adrian Sutil 6
15 FI Vitantonio Liuzzi 6
16 STR Sébastien Buemi 6
17 STR Jaime Alguersuari 6
18 Lotus Jarno Trulli 6
19 Lotus Heikki Kovalainen 6
20 HRT Karun Chandhok/Sakon Yamamoto 6
21 HRT Bruno Senna 6
22 Sauber Pedro De La Rosa 9
23 Sauber Kamui Kobayashi 6
24 Virgin Timo Glock 6
25 Virgin Lucas Di Grassi 6

De La Rosa had a new engine for Spa but chose to use another after qualifying. So he effectively has 2 slightly-used engines left (as opposed to Massa and Alonso who have a brand new engine left but a more-used 1).

Monza is another track that is tough on engines, so expect to perhaps see more engines used after next weekend. It appears the only team thats going to be possibly hampered is Ferrari.
Renault are still excellent at managing their engines. Potential for a surprise win at the end of the season for Kubica?

 

[astrosdude91]

Looks like most everyone are about the same. Renault both have five though.

 

[Seismica]

Didn't Button lose one completely in Spa? So Hamilton has one he can re-use, but Button needs a new one for the next race.

 

[Akmuq]

Could renaults fantastic engines have anything to do with petrovs 5th place in Hungary. It looks like de la Rosa is on the back foot for Monza. Will he get grid penalties in the ramaining races?

 

[Ardius]

Could renaults fantastic engines have anything to do with petrovs 5th place in Hungary.

I don't understand what you're referring to here. Hungary isn't an engine-circuit, only low end torque really matters and I don't hear many drivers really complaining about that. If anything, the Renault engine would assumedly be worse off around a place like that due to its alleged lower power output.

It looks like de la Rosa is on the back foot for Monza. Will he get grid penalties in the ramaining races?

As I said in my post, DLR isn't as bad as he looks because he didn't use either engine much. He used his 8th engine for Spa qualifying and he used his 9th for Spa race. He can re-use them and any other remaining engines as much as he likes as far as I know. I think there may be a restriction on his 8th engine in that he can only use it for Abu Dhabi or he can't use it in races from now on.
But DLR shouldn't need a new engine every race, though he will almost certainly get more penalties in some of the races.

 

[Akmuq]

So is it every race he uses his 9th engine that he gets a grid penalty or every race that he uses a new engine?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Every race that he uses a new engine. If he can somehow get to the end of the season on his ninth, then he won't take a grid penalty - but that's unlikely.

 

[Ardius]

So is it every race he uses his 9th engine that he gets a grid penalty or every race that he uses a new engine?

Every time the team has to use a new engine. So the next penalty would be for a 10th engine, 11th engine, and so on. The 9th engine is no longer "new" is it?

 

[nalops]

Engine usage to date (21 September 2010):
McLaren Mercedes
1 Jenson Button 7
2 Lewis Hamilton 7

Mercedes GP
3 Michael Schumacher 7
4 Nico Rosberg 7

RBR Renault
5 Sebastian Vettel 7
6 Mark Webber 6

Ferrari
7 Felipe Massa 8
8 Fernando Alonso 8

Williams Cosworth
9 Rubens Barrichello 6
10 Nico Hulkenberg 7

Renault
11 Robert Kubica 6
12 Vitaly Pertrov 6

Force India Mercedes
14 Adrian Sutil 7
15 Vitantonio Liuzzi 7

STR Ferrari
16 Sebastien Buemi 7
17 Jaime Alguersuari 7

Lotus Cosworth
18 Jarno Trulli 7
19 Heikki Kovalainen 7

HRT Cosworth
20 Sakon Yamamoto 7
21 Bruno Senna 7

BMW Sauber Ferrari
22 Nick Heidfeld (formerly Pedro de la Rosa’s car) 9
23 Kamui Kobayashi 7

Virgin Cosworth
24 Timo Glock 7
25 Lucas Di Grassi 7

 

[yeti]

So Alonso and Massa have to make their last few engines count... Vettel onto his last one with 2 left - let's hope (for his sake) that it doesn't pop...

A blown engine for Alonso at the next race could be very very costly.

Webber's got a new engine for the last two races - that's interesting!!

Looking at the stats - looks like the Renault Engine is the one that's the most reliable...

C.

 

[ghostrider135]

Could the reason V Petrov hasn't used as many engines be down to the fact he usually ends up crashing thus not finishing the race therefore not killing his engine in the process

 

[daan]

Those figures are from before the Korean GP. So you can scratch one from Vettel's tally. The condition of the engines the others used remains unknown and won't be known until the next GP.

 

[hellnback]

Exactly Daan, the can re-use engine blocks, some might not be that stressed at all...

 

[GTPorsche]

Don't forget that any engine can be replaced for the final GP and not take penalty for it. Technically, the teams only have to worry about one more race.

 

[Ardius]

Don't forget that any engine can be replaced for the final GP and not take penalty for it. Technically, the teams only have to worry about one more race.

Where did you get that from? The rules state:

Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which each additional engine is used.

There is nothing in there about free engines for the final race.

 

[GTPorsche]

I thought there was some sort of rule in the regulation involving engines and the final race of the season?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Corrected Entry.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/65EE8F15945D0941C12576C7005308AE/$FILE/1-2010%20SPORTING%20REGULATIONS%2023-06-2010.pdf

Engine use is on page 14.

If you have to take two engines in one meeting you take a ten place grid drop in that race and in the next race as well.

 

[Hun200kmh]

ARTICLE 28.4

a) Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event. An engine will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.

b) If a driver is replaced at any time during the Championship season his replacement will be deemed to be the original driver for the purposes of assessing engine usage.

c) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine prior to it being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced. Within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used engines in order to ensure that these engines cannot be run between Events. Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the engines are required. All such engines must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.

d) If any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from an engine after it has been used for the first time that engine may not be used again unless they were removed under FIA supervision.
e) If an engine is changed in accordance with Article 34.1 the engine which was replaced may not be used during any future qualifying session or race with the exception of the last Event of the Championship.

I think GTPorsche's post is about the part in red&bold. However, that doesn't mean "free engines" after the 8th. It just means - that's how I read it - that ONLY in the final race can you use in quali and race an engine that was previiously replaced under parc fermé (between start of Q1 and end of race) status. In all other prior events an engine changed in such conditions cannot be used again.

I'm a bit unsure on what's going on regarding engine usage. Vettel's 8th has blown up, so he will do with used engines these last two rounds.

Webber I think can still use one completely new engine.

Alonso is depending on used engines since Monza. Since I don't think he did any change in parc fermé, all the engines he has available must now have at least 2 "events"done (quali + race). And, apparently 3 events is the most you can get out of an engine, so in fact his position is not comfortable.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

And, apparently 3 events is the most you can get out of an engine, so in fact his position is not comfortable.

That's probably why he's being realistic in his comments and not saying "we have a great chance to win championship."

 

[The Outlaw]

Alonso is depending on used engines since Monza. Since I don't think he did any change in parc fermé, all the engines he has available must now have at least 2 "events"done (quali + race). And, apparently 3 events is the most you can get out of an engine, so in fact his position is not comfortable.

His Monza engine only has 1 (not 2) race on it. Also, from what I've heard, Sauber has gotten 5 races out of one of the updated Ferrari engines - but of course anything past the scheduled rebuild interval (of ~ 3 races ) is pushing your luck, especially when there is a Championship on the line.

Vettel is also in a poor situation, as all of his remaining used engines most likely (can't be guaranteed) have as much mileage on them as the #8 engine which blew up (~65% run time) @ Korea.

 

[Peter]

So, going into Brazil, Alonso has 2 choices here. Take a fresh engine and get a 10 spot penalty, or risk it all with his previous engine. If his engine fails at Brazul, that's it for the WDC lead, and he'll take a 10 spot in Abu Dhabi I think. What should he do?

 

[The Outlaw]

Take the risk without a doubht in my mind. At this point in the Championship a 10 place grid penalty is far too costly for even the Championship leader. You never know the longevity of any motor (as we saw with Vettel @ Korea) so it is a risk Ferrari must take with the Monza engine (which only has 1 race on it), and on paper should make it to the checkered flag at Abu Dhabi.

 

[UN_OC]

I read somewhere that the engines are as follows

FROM BEST CASE TO WORST CASE

Webber - 8th engine done part of a wet korea.
Only race so far, and only part of it. Also a wet race, so much easier on teh engine

Hamilton - Engine 7 was used in singapore. Engine 8 was used in japan and korea.
Spa engine is just under 1 race given wet conditions. Should be able to hold for brazil and abu dhabi
7 has only been used about one race as both were DNFs. Engine 8 was used in japan and a wet korea, but with a broken gearbox, the engine may not be in such great shape doing the extra rev range and work. (see alonos in mayalsia for results of a gearbox problem)

Button - has several engines with 2 races on each, pretty evenly distributed. Not really in title reach. Forgot to mention. Spa engine only used in spa. So thats good to go for 2 more probably.

Alonso - Started his 8th back in Monza. Was in buttons hot air for ages. german and hungary on one engine. Monza and singapore, japan and koreaon another (lucky it didn't blow).
Not as bad as it oculd have been. But could be alot better.

Vettel - Suprisingly the worst. It appears all his fastest laps thorughout race hasn't been for the best. ALl of his engine have 2 rounds on them, or atleast all that haven't been cooked. Taking fastest lap after fastest lap may be what brings him down. Engine's SHOULD last for 3 races presuming they are kept well, and can last if lucky and in the right conditions for 4. So vettel is pushing it but it is possible he can get lucky, despite his best attempt not to. Brazil is 68% on full throttle while abu dhabi is another tilke accelerate and stop mostly track. So another could blow before the season is out.