F1Merc: help, still can't take hairpin.

[DodgySyrup]

First off, hello to everyone; I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I know, therefore, that the issue of the Mercedes F1 and it's behaviour turning at very low speed was brought up.
Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people either had no issue, gave up, or found a way to adapt.

I tried a lot of different set ups, pushing toe all the way to one side and then back the other way, then in between.
As well as playing with ride height, camber, spring stiffness etc...

I usually drive with 1 or 2 TC, and I experimented with 0 then 5, I moved brake bias around...everything.
And don't get me wrong, I found a really nice set up and I can fly; taking full advantage of the downforce and the agility of the car to push right to edge.. and it's great fun.

But I cannot attempt the GT league race as the 2 circuits with the worst corners I have come across, turn 1 at NurGP, and the last chicane as Suzuka, make it nigh on impossible.

Even the A.I spin going into the turn 1 at NurGP.

So I've decided to reach out and ask the community...is there anything I can do?

To be clear, I'm not strictly asking for general set up advice to go quicker, if you get what I mean?

I just need some advice on what I can do with the car to make it manageable .
It seems like the moment I turn in at low speed it spins...like 360 degree spin.

If I touch the power it spins .

If it carry speed in and brake late, it spins.

Brake early and try to power out of the corner, you guessed it.. spins.

No matter what I do as soon as I attempt to turn in the back comes around.

As I said, I've tinkered with set up and feel comfortable everywhere else, be it at high speed, under braking, it's just this one thing stopping me from ever getting any consistency.

My normal settings are:
Automatic
TC: 1 or 2 (depends on car)
ABS: Default
Counter steer and other assists: Off

I hope someone can offer some advice.

P.S I know there was a suggestion that staying in 3rd gear made a big difference, though how that helps with turn in spin I don't know?
But even so, am I right in thinking there is no way, like you can in A.C. (and other games), to have auto gearbox but also change gear if you hit the up and down shift button?
This would allow you to put it into 3rd for and override the auto gearbox but still allow it to do its job when you don't interfere.

 

[MordFustang88]

First off, hello to everyone; I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I know, therefore, that the issue of the Mercedes F1 and it's behaviour turning at very low speed was brought up.
Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people either had no issue, gave up, or found a way to adapt.

I tried a lot of different set ups, pushing toe all the way to one side and then back the other way, then in between.
As well as playing with ride height, camber, spring stiffness etc...

I usually drive with 1 or 2 TC, and I experimented with 0 then 5, I moved brake bias around...everything.
And don't get me wrong, I found a really nice set up and I can fly; taking full advantage of the downforce and the agility of the car to push right to edge.. and it's great fun.

But I cannot attempt the GT league race as the 2 circuits with the worst corners I have come across, turn 1 at NurGP, and the last chicane as Suzuka, make it nigh on impossible.

Even the A.I spin going into the turn 1 at NurGP.

So I've decided to reach out and ask the community...is there anything I can do?

To be clear, I'm not strictly asking for general set up advice to go quicker, if you get what I mean?

I just need some advice on what I can do with the car to make it manageable .
It seems like the moment I turn in at low speed it spins...like 360 degree spin.

If I touch the power it spins .

If it carry speed in and brake late, it spins.

Brake early and try to power out of the corner, you guessed it.. spins.

No matter what I do as soon as I attempt to turn in the back comes around.

As I said, I've tinkered with set up and feel comfortable everywhere else, be it at high speed, under braking, it's just this one thing stopping me from ever getting any consistency.

My normal settings are:
Automatic
TC: 1 or 2 (depends on car)
ABS: Default
Counter steer and other assists: Off

I hope someone can offer some advice.

P.S I know there was a suggestion that staying in 3rd gear made a big difference, though how that helps with turn in spin I don't know?
But even so, am I right in thinking there is no way, like you can in A.C. (and other games), to have auto gearbox but also change gear if you hit the up and down shift button?
This would allow you to put it into 3rd for and override the auto gearbox but still allow it to do its job when you don't interfere.

By releasing the throttle, the car loses all of its downforce. Try trail braking into the corner and not releasing the brake all in once. While releasing the break try to apply a little bit of throttle so the downforce kicks in, not too much throttle. When you feel the downforce is there and there is vrip, apply full throttle.

 

[DodgySyrup]

Appreciate the response.

I have tried almost every kind of approach, including the one you mention...that's why I'm convinced it's something set up related, as the car always spins the instant I try to turn in.

That's the problem, you see?

It's not the problem of applying the throttle on corner exit, it's the car spinning as soon as the car turns in on corner entry.

 

[Winnie847]

First off, hello to everyone; I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I know, therefore, that the issue of the Mercedes F1 and it's behaviour turning at very low speed was brought up.
Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people either had no issue, gave up, or found a way to adapt.

I tried a lot of different set ups, pushing toe all the way to one side and then back the other way, then in between.
As well as playing with ride height, camber, spring stiffness etc...

I usually drive with 1 or 2 TC, and I experimented with 0 then 5, I moved brake bias around...everything.
And don't get me wrong, I found a really nice set up and I can fly; taking full advantage of the downforce and the agility of the car to push right to edge.. and it's great fun.

But I cannot attempt the GT league race as the 2 circuits with the worst corners I have come across, turn 1 at NurGP, and the last chicane as Suzuka, make it nigh on impossible.

Even the A.I spin going into the turn 1 at NurGP.

So I've decided to reach out and ask the community...is there anything I can do?

To be clear, I'm not strictly asking for general set up advice to go quicker, if you get what I mean?

I just need some advice on what I can do with the car to make it manageable .
It seems like the moment I turn in at low speed it spins...like 360 degree spin.

If I touch the power it spins .

If it carry speed in and brake late, it spins.

Brake early and try to power out of the corner, you guessed it.. spins.

No matter what I do as soon as I attempt to turn in the back comes around.

As I said, I've tinkered with set up and feel comfortable everywhere else, be it at high speed, under braking, it's just this one thing stopping me from ever getting any consistency.

My normal settings are:
Automatic
TC: 1 or 2 (depends on car)
ABS: Default
Counter steer and other assists: Off

I hope someone can offer some advice.

P.S I know there was a suggestion that staying in 3rd gear made a big difference, though how that helps with turn in spin I don't know?
But even so, am I right in thinking there is no way, like you can in A.C. (and other games), to have auto gearbox but also change gear if you hit the up and down shift button?
This would allow you to put it into 3rd for and override the auto gearbox but still allow it to do its job when you don't interfere.

Manual transmission, keeping it in 3rd or even 4th gear is the only way.

 

[Leggacy]

By releasing the throttle, the car loses all of its downforce. Try trail braking into the corner and not releasing the brake all in once. While releasing the break try to apply a little bit of throttle so the downforce kicks in, not too much throttle. When you feel the downforce is there and there is vrip, apply full throttle.

F1 drivers rarely trail the brakes, and there is little if any downforce below 60mph. It’s all mechanical (tyre) grip at hairpin speeds.
If you’re spinning on the way into the hairpin it might be because: your trailing the brakes or you’re shifting as you turn in, which will cause the rear wheels to under rotate.
Spinning on the way out is usually due to being on the throttle too early. As Jackie Stuart said, never go full throttle until the car is pointing exactly where you want to go.
One thing I have noticed about this car is that it’s almost impossible to drive without ABS (as it should be) the brakes grab to early and I’m forever locking up.

 

[DodgySyrup]

Manual transmission, keeping it in 3rd or even 4th gear is the only way.

But that doesn't help me from spinning as I turn in, which is the real problem.

 

[MordFustang88]

F1 drivers rarely trail the brakes, and there is little if any downforce below 60mph. It’s all mechanical (tyre) grip at hairpin speeds.
If you’re spinning on the way into the hairpin it might be because: your trailing the brakes or you’re shifting as you turn in, which will cause the rear wheels to under rotate.
Spinning on the way out is usually due to being on the throttle too early. As Jackie Stuart said, never go full throttle until the car is pointing exactly where you want to go.
One thing I have noticed about this car is that it’s almost impossible to drive without ABS (as it should be) the brakes grab to early and I’m forever locking up.

Sorry i might said something wrong, i think i was thinking about gradually releasing the brakes

 

[DodgySyrup]

F1 drivers rarely trail the brakes, and there is little if any downforce below 60mph. It’s all mechanical (tyre) grip at hairpin speeds.
If you’re spinning on the way into the hairpin it might be because: your trailing the brakes or you’re shifting as you turn in, which will cause the rear wheels to under rotate.
Spinning on the way out is usually due to being on the throttle too early. As Jackie Stuart said, never go full throttle until the car is pointing exactly where you want to go.
One thing I have noticed about this car is that it’s almost impossible to drive without ABS (as it should be) the brakes grab to early and I’m forever locking up.

I definitely agree about not applying throttle until you know you don't have to lift off again (wasn't that what he said to James May on Top Gear?), and I would love to know what it's like out of slow corners...lol

 

[kjeldsen]

I gave up on the FIA race just because of that..

 

[baldgye]

Something I would recommend, generally, is turning off TC all together in a few GR3 cars and lapping around a track you know well in one of those to get used to the feel of having to feel for grip with the throttle.

If you are turning in and spinning, you are carrying too much speed. With modern F1 cars you have to realise that they are very long (Merc especially) and don't have that much mechanical grip, it's all aero, so when you rotate the car you change the downforce levels and if your carrying too much speed, it's like a pendulum.

For pulling out of the corner and spinning you need to be careful of three things;
are all four wheels flat and on the track
what gear are you in
What your steering input is

Accelerating out of a corner in 3rd is very hard, you need to be easy on the throttle until you get to 4th and 5th, even if your steering straight and on a flat straight. The car has insane levels of torque you need to remember.

 

[Winnie847]

But that doesn't help me from spinning as I turn in, which is the real problem.

You can try it if you want, or don’t.

You may think it has no effect, but the revs and torque have an effect on turning in and pushing out. Don’t have the wheel turned too much at the time of releasing or applying the brakes, which both cause weight to transfer. Limiting the revs and maintaining more speed than you probably think you should, will likely help. It helped me with this exact problem because I normally drive auto and had to switch to MT for this car specifically.

 

[DodgySyrup]

You can try it if you want, or don’t.

You may think it has no effect, but the revs and torque have an effect on turning in and pushing out. Don’t have the wheel turned too much at the time of releasing or applying the brakes, which both cause weight to transfer. Limiting the revs and maintaining more speed than you probably think you should, will likely help. It helped me with this exact problem because I normally drive auto and had to switch to MT for this car specifically.

It definitely seems like the manual gearbox is a better way to go.

I'll try it.

Something I would recommend, generally, is turning off TC all together in a few GR3 cars and lapping around a track you know well in one of those to get used to the feel of having to feel for grip with the throttle.

If you are turning in and spinning, you are carrying too much speed. With modern F1 cars you have to realise that they are very long (Merc especially) and don't have that much mechanical grip, it's all aero, so when you rotate the car you change the downforce levels and if your carrying too much speed, it's like a pendulum.

For pulling out of the corner and spinning you need to be careful of three things;
are all four wheels flat and on the track
what gear are you in
What your steering input is

Accelerating out of a corner in 3rd is very hard, you need to be easy on the throttle until you get to 4th and 5th, even if your steering straight and on a flat straight. The car has insane levels of torque you need to remember.

Turn TC off completely????

I'm not sure I'd be any better to be honest, but I'll give it a try.

I gave up on the FIA race just because of that..

I know how you feel...almost there myself.

 

[baldgye]

Turn TC off completely????

I'm not sure I'd be any better to be honest, but I'll give it a try.

Yeah in a GR3 car, to get yourself used to balancing the throttle.

 

[GTCam]

I can only control this car by setting TCS to 5, and using a tune from the tuning threads.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I could only take T1 at NGP at 30 kph max in that car. Slow all the way down first, then touch nothing but move the left stick very gently, no more than a couple of mm. It's so twitchy at low speed. 1mm too much and it still spins at 30 kph! Unfortunately the AI is not that patient and pushed me in a spin in the last lap. I gave up on that car for now. I managed to win on St Croix yet NGP and Suzuka suck.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

If the car spinning out on turn-in is your problem, you have to trail brake all the way to the apex of the corner, immediately applying a small amount of throttle after braking, and leaving no coasting in between

 

[the_boy]

I can do the Ring clean for a few laps now (not all 10, can’t get a clean race bonus yet). Suzukas last turn is giving me problems in every lap, still can’t win there.

 

[danardif1]

I'm having trouble with this too, the car will violently spin round in low speed corners if you are below 3rd gear or even in it... the engine seems to cut in and out so your only real option is keep partial throttle in the corner and hope for the best.

I think PD still have some ironing out to do with this car...

 

[Leggacy]

Sorry i might said something wrong, i think i was thinking about gradually releasing the brakes

Yep, you should be gradually releasing the brake as you reach the turn in point but by the time you turn the wheel you should be off the brakes and in the correct gear. I see so many people talking about trail braking, it has its uses but not in an open wheel race car. If you watch the graphics on the halo on tv you’ll notice that f1 drivers don’t do it, there may be some corners that are an exception to the rule, in general it’s a bad habit. Also brake balance to the front helps, move it backwards as your front tyres start to degrade.

 

[Leggacy]

@DodgySyrup Have you tried blipping the throttle on down shifts? It can help stop the rear tyres from under rotating if you’re down shifting aggressively. Not too much of a blip mind or you’ll be in the kitty litter before you know it.

 

[Draggon]

I sort of figured it out. I'm using AT which made it more difficult. After many spins, I realized that the line I've always taken through that corner was a problem. I found out that staying at the very left side of the track and making the turn as wide as possible----it helped out a lot. The sudden elevation change and sharp corner had made the already bad physics of the car even worse.

I was able to win this event without too much trouble using that tactic.

 

[super_gt]

Try with a differential set to 60/60/60

 

[Leggacy]

There’s some interesting stuff here about how to take a hairpin and cornering in general.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/cornering_tech.html

 

[DodgySyrup]

I have AC, PC2, f1 2015 and 2017, and have been playing racing games for 30 years...and this really does have me frustrated.

Driving the same car, last year's Merc, at the same circuit, Suzuka, in either f1 game, or using any other car in GT Sport, results in no issues...none at all.

If that game is to be believed, and the fact that drivers in f1 aren't constantly spinning simply from turning at 40 mph into a hairpin or tight chicane, and seeing the other players having issues, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is still (partly) broken.

Yes, some players, either on a wheel, or using manual, have found a way around it.

Others, who are like me, and who are not being excessive when turning in, who have plenty of experience playing racing games, who know all about the mechanics of motorsport, and still cannot get the car to behave in a predictable and reliable way, are feeling there's still something not quite right.

I feel like I cannot attack these slow corners, which is something f1 cars do exceptionally well.

It is like turning on ice with cold tyres.

I presume that PD are happy with the car and we won't see anymore refinement.

So I guess it's a case of trying and trying until I either;

A) Figure it out
B) Give up

It is a shame, as in all every respects I love the car and can push like mad.

 

[danardif1]

I've taken the Assetto Corsa 2017 Ferrari to the same track and had no issues, its definitely not a driving issue its something that the Merc does when the revs are low, it almost feels like an anti-stall though of course you can't stall a car at all in GT, but it has that feel of the engine putting throttle in on low revs to keep it going... it could be a diff issue or something with how the engine runs in-game with factoring in the hybrid power etc...

 

[Winnie847]

I have AC, PC2, f1 2015 and 2017, and have been playing racing games for 30 years...and this really does have me frustrated.

Driving the same car, last year's Merc, at the same circuit, Suzuka, in either f1 game, or using any other car in GT Sport, results in no issues...none at all.

If that game is to be believed, and the fact that drivers in f1 aren't constantly spinning simply from turning at 40 mph into a hairpin or tight chicane, and seeing the other players having issues, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is still (partly) broken.

Yes, some players, either on a wheel, or using manual, have found a way around it.

Others, who are like me, and who are not being excessive when turning in, who have plenty of experience playing racing games, who know all about the mechanics of motorsport, and still cannot get the car to behave in a predictable and reliable way, are feeling there's still something not quite right.

I feel like I cannot attack these slow corners, which is something f1 cars do exceptionally well.

It is like turning on ice with cold tyres.

I presume that PD are happy with the car and we won't see anymore refinement.

So I guess it's a case of trying and trying until I either;

A) Figure it out
B) Give up

It is a shame, as in all every respects I love the car and can push like mad.

kind of beating a dead horse here, but did you try manual and taking it in 4th gear yet? I'm not saying that you should HAVE to do this, but you're right, the car is broken in some aspects, and this is the workaround for many.

 

[Vader86]

So I don't particularly like the car, but with Minkihl's setup I was able to manhandle it well enough to stop spinning. It definitely does not like to get on rumble strips though. Setting the diff to 60/60/60 did make some difference.

I generally prefer to drive manual, and if you drive manual then you can't drop it below 3rd gear. Its just a dog at a lower gear. I also brake really early and let it coast into the suzuka hairpin. This one is geared a way that I often let the game shift for me though.

 

[Josa]

You have to be either braking or accelerating. In the moment you don't have any of them pressed, the car will spin. Obviously after you get the right speed after braking you have to accelerate before releasing the brake. The hardest part of this is remembering doing in all slow corners.

 

[DodgySyrup]

So I don't particularly like the car, but with Minkihl's setup I was able to manhandle it well enough to stop spinning. It definitely does not like to get on rumble strips though. Setting the diff to 60/60/60 did make some difference.

I generally prefer to drive manual, and if you drive manual then you can't drop it below 3rd gear. Its just a dog at a lower gear. I also brake really early and let it coast into the suzuka hairpin. This one is geared a way that I often let the game shift for me though.

I tried out the Minkihl set up and it is ok, but it still doesn't stop the spinning in very slow corners.

Does anyone know how to set up the gear ratios so that braking for those very slow corners would mean you would be in 3rd or 4th when using an automatic gearbox?

This would help with corner exit oversteer, and then it would be a case of purely focusing on the corner entry turn in issues.

 

[Vader86]

You have to be either braking or accelerating. In the moment you don't have any of them pressed, the car will spin. Obviously after you get the right speed after braking you have to accelerate before releasing the brake. The hardest part of this is remembering doing in all slow corners.

Yes I leave one foot on brake and another on gas, I have to feather both.