F2007 too easy to drive?

[McLaren]

We do have open wheel racers there as well. They say the same thing. The mod has a better recreation of how a Formula 1 car would most likely drive than GT has recreated. Then again, most folks there don't consider GT to be a true-to-life, and that it's the way it is for the non-hardcore's sake.

 

[delobbo]

I find it much easier to drive any car with the controller than the wheel.

 

[RedOak]

The wheel does take a while to get used to, especially if you are used to the controller. in such a case, the difference is also quite marginal. However, the fun factor is definitely better with the wheel.

I wish it was simpler to "setup and play" tho...

 

[kikie]

“The F2007 is currently I think the most precise simulation of an F1 car in existence, and I think it's something that everyone should try out. We've had to implement a lot of new physics into the game, and a lot of mechanisms that we had left out before that we had to add to simulate the car properly, ...

Link: http://www.consolegaming.eu/feature.php?id=20

He openly admits that the physics engine in the GT series in not up to date and realistic.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Link: http://www.consolegaming.eu/feature.php?id=20

He openly admits that the physics engine in the GT series in not up to date and realistic.

what you just bolded dosnt say that it isnt up to date and not realistic what you bolded just said that to make the F1 car have a more realistic effect they had to add some variables to there physics engine to make the F1 car have a more real feel not that it is not correct. you should have bolded the sentence before that that says its the closest simulation to date if you were trying to say that its not accurate because in that sentence he is saying yea it isnt perfect but its close.

 

[kikie]

I was expecting this kind of comment and I disagree.

All cars are subjected to the same laws of physics, (understeer, oversteer, weight transfer etc...) => beetle or F1. The only thing that differs is that the forces being stronger when an F1 car drives at full speed on a track then when a Beetle is driving relatively slow compared to the F1. If PD didn't implement all the data for the other cars, then it means (IMO) that the physics aren't up to date.

 

[Zer0]

If PD didn't implement all the data for the other cars, then it means (IMO) that the physics aren't up to date.

We've had to implement a lot of new physics into the game

.

 

[Vagabond]

I'd like to just throw my 2p worth in if I may. I think the F1 car seems easy to drive because it has enormous grip and downforce and stonking brakes, all of which you are not afraid to use to their full capacity in the safe environment of a game and that its nothing to do with the accuracy of PD's physics engine.

If you were on a real track in a real F1 car you'd experience the problems R Hammond did and the fear of instant death would prevent you from using the car as it needs to be used.

 

[kart.no.38]

Is it me, or is the F2007 too easy to drive? I play with all driver aids off with driving physics on "Professional", and I just tried a 30 lap arcade race (does that make any difference?) with the AI set to 101 and won by 35.5 seconds on the Suzuka circuit. Yes you can spin it in first, second and third of you don't feather the throttle at some places, but it's the easiest car to drive in GT5P in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

PS: And it's not even with a wheel! It's with the Dualshock 3 controller.

EDIT: And it's of course on Racing S3 tires - I would think that Sport S3 would make it alot harder of course.

Try beating a top time online. Try Suzuka...

 

[kikie]

.

If PD didn't implement all the data for the other cars, then it means (IMO) that the physics aren't up to date

I was talking about the all the other cars in GT!

We've had to implement a lot of new physics into the game

KY is talking about new physics for the F2007

 

[Stotty]

Driving it for real like Richard Hammond is another story. How would anyone can possibly adjust to that level of G-Force and Speed in such a short time. And also the effect of the aerodynamic to the car. Imagine telling yourself to go "faster" in order to clear the corner. And also the warming the tire, brakes, etc. I would be scared.

Richard Hammond is employed for his presenting skills, not his driving ability... I attended a charity karting event a few years back with Clarkson/Hammond/May. Clarkson was pretty quick considering how much he must weigh, Hammond was slow.

Steve Sutcliffe (motoring journo for Autocar) got within a fraction of a second of the official Honda test drivers time at Silverstone (National circuit) earlier this year. This was over just 2 or 3 sessions of a 5-6 laps or so.

Steve has a reputation for being a very quick pedaler and he does have some racing experience in TVR Tuscan's (450bhp, c.700kg, 0-100 in c.6 seconds or so, with a fearsome reputation), but nothing in open wheelers. It's a great atrticle - the section where he describes going out for his final run knowing he has to trust the downforce and the resulting feeling he gets is superb. Also, despite several weeks of training, his neck muscles only lasted about 10 laps and they had to brace the left side of his head to stop it flopping about!

I'm not saying F1's are easy to drive, just that it's not impossible if you're talented.

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

The car is fun to drive, that's about it. It's not a true representation of an F1 car that's for sure. At low speed under-steer is so outta whack it's not funny. At race speed the car sticks like glue which is what gives the impression and feel of an F1 car running at 200+ clicks. And that's what makes it fun. I don't think they were going for realism with it, I think that's beyond the scope of the game as far as cost and budgets and such. It's a simulation not a simulator.

What they do have to a certain degree is the aerodynamic effect as speed increases, I'm not sure how accurate it is as it applies to an F1 car but I've driven cars on track and you definitely need to get your car up to speed in order to drive it properly that's for sure.

I'm wondering how the Minolta is gonna drive...

 

[NapoleonMikey]

I was expecting this kind of comment and I disagree.

All cars are subjected to the same laws of physics, (understeer, oversteer, weight transfer etc...) => beetle or F1. The only thing that differs is that the forces being stronger when an F1 car drives at full speed on a track then when a Beetle is driving relatively slow compared to the F1. If PD didn't implement all the data for the other cars, then it means (IMO) that the physics aren't up to date.

im sure they designed the physics engine for prologue originaly just for cars adding variables that would only apply to cars to give them a realistic effect. but an F1 car im almost certain has alot more variables to take into account then a standard road car. programing a physics engine for a game and actual real life physics are 2 entirely separate things just because all things under go the same law of physics in real life representing that in a program can not be represented nearly as easy. if you think of it from a programing stand point (note i dont know what your background with programing is and at that if any of it is game related) then it makes perfect sense that they would need to include variables unaccounted for for a standard road car that an F1 car would need. seeing as an F1 car has so much aero on it that each part of the car has a different function and is extremly complex. look at an F1 car and you see wings and aerodynic aids everywhere on the car that gets the car to take a turn at 5 G;s while on a normal race car you have front splinter rear wing any ground effects the car has added and the weight in basic form (im sure PD includes alot more but thats the basics). you cant think of programing as just once a program is writen no matter what is added it will obey by the laws of physics theres alot more that goes into it.


wow i hope you understand that cuz after rereading it i got confused and it made sense when i was writing it.

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

I'm sure if PD wanted to they could probably make a game soley based on F1 alone, and that is what they'd need to do in order to bring the realism to it. The code that would go into making a 'realistic' F1 game would probably take 2 BR discs or more. If you wanted to make true, being able to adjust all the elements of the car, telemetry and such.

But wouldn't that be cool? 👍 (But let's see what CM comes up with in their F1 vision.)

I keep watching the replays while playing GRiD wondering what an F1 race will look like, it would look 'cool' that's for sure watching your car cartwheel through the air pieces flying off. C'mon it would.

 

[BrokenGSXR]

Dunno if this is the right place to post this but what is a good F1 time for Fuji, Suzuka etc... I am about to get my hands on the beast and dont want to crap up the online races by being too slow!!

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Dunno if this is the right place to post this but what is a good F1 time for Fuji, Suzuka etc... I am about to get my hands on the beast and dont want to crap up the online races by being too slow!!

get around 1.18 or lower and you wont do to bad. ill average an overall time of 6.30 for my finish time

 

[BrokenGSXR]

get around 1.18 or lower and you wont do to bad. ill average an overall time of 6.30 for my finish time

My god, I need more practice.

Doing around 1:39 at suzuka right now, and am coming off all over the place. The F1 car is a different level altogether

 

[MustakeSVT]

I average 6:25 to 6:30 for five laps. Most laps seem to be in the 1:16 to 1:17's. I have hit 1:14 a few times and 1:15 quite often. My best full five laps was 6:23.2XX. But I do run it a lot

Edit: The faster laps always seem to occur when trailing. When leading, laps time diminish a little.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

My god, I need more practice.

Doing around 1:39 at suzuka right now, and am coming off all over the place. The F1 car is a different level altogether

oh im sorry i was thinking of my fuji time seeing as that was the track that was online. the only 2 tracks for the F2007 online are fuji and HSRR so i was thinking something else sorry. but as for sazuka i dont know what a competitive time on that track would be since we cat race itt online yet.

 

[oruji]

Richard Hammond is employed for his presenting skills, not his driving ability... I attended a charity karting event a few years back with Clarkson/Hammond/May. Clarkson was pretty quick considering how much he must weigh, Hammond was slow.

Steve Sutcliffe (motoring journo for Autocar) got within a fraction of a second of the official Honda test drivers time at Silverstone (National circuit) earlier this year. This was over just 2 or 3 sessions of a 5-6 laps or so.

Steve has a reputation for being a very quick pedaler and he does have some racing experience in TVR Tuscan's (450bhp, c.700kg, 0-100 in c.6 seconds or so, with a fearsome reputation), but nothing in open wheelers. It's a great atrticle - the section where he describes going out for his final run knowing he has to trust the downforce and the resulting feeling he gets is superb. Also, despite several weeks of training, his neck muscles only lasted about 10 laps and they had to brace the left side of his head to stop it flopping about!

I'm not saying F1's are easy to drive, just that it's not impossible if you're talented.

I would consider Richard Hammond to be better than average even for people on this forum.

Thanks for the story about Steve Sutcliffe. I looked him up on youtube. Very interesting. I would consider him to be much better than average being able to get that close to a professional drivers' lap time. He's about 1 sec. off Button on a Civic with same condition and about .5 sec off the test driver on the F1. The condition was better when he drive the F1 though. But the man got skill regardless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Immx3VuhO9c&feature=related

I don't think you need talent to drive the F1. I think you need good driving basics and a lot of guts. This is not to compete in the F1 but just to be able to drive it safely on a track.

 

[kikie]

I think that Hammond was able to drive the F1 car perfectly but he had to pretend that it is impossible for non race car drivers to drive a real F1 car.

During one to the last F1 races, they showed a, I believe it was an infra red image that showed how hot new tires are when they are put on during a pit stop. These tires were as hot as the worn out tires.

Hammond said that his tires weren't hot enough to have the grip he needed, even tough they used the same blankets to warm up the tires as during an F1 race.

I know for sure that there are very rich people whom own real F1 cars and drive them around on race tracks, as part of a show. How is it possible for them to drive in Michael Shumacher's and Barichello's F1 car and Hammon, can't?


That blond girl from fifth gear, drove a single seater (can't remember the exact name but it is a single seater used by older retired F1 race car drivers) and she was able to do so without the problems Hammond had.

I know that there are place where you can drive with older real F1 cars, which is very expensive but it is possible.

http://www.agsformule1.com/en/drive-a-formula-1.php

A few years back, I read an article in an auto magazine that a British car journalist had the opportunity to drive a Toyota F1 car. At the end of the day he was only a little bit less than 10 seconds slower than the slowest F1 time on that track.

So how is it possible for non race car drivers, to drive an actual F1 car and Hammond wasn't? Because Hammond had to pretend that it is impossible to drive an F1 car.

Read this story:

http://www.pbase.com/cmanaginged/my_first_f1_drive

 

[kikie]

oops double post

The F1 cars driven by non race car drivers

 

[Stotty]

I think that Hammond was able to drive the F1 car perfectly but he had to pretend that it is impossible for non race car drivers to drive a real F1 car.

During one to the last F1 races, they showed a, I believe it was an infra red image that showed how hot new tires are when they are put on during a pit stop. These tires were as hot as the worn out tires.

Hammond said that his tires weren't hot enough to have the grip he needed, even tough they used the same blankets to warm up the tires as during an F1 race.

I know for sure that there are very rich people whom own real F1 cars and drive them around on race tracks, as part of a show. How is it possible for them to drive in Michael Shumacher's and Barichello's F1 car and Hammon, can't?


That blond girl from fifth gear, drove a single seater (can't remember the exact name but it is a single seater used by older retired F1 race car drivers) and she was able to do so without the problems Hammond had.

I know that there are place where you can drive with older real F1 cars, which is very expensive but it is possible.

http://www.agsformule1.com/en/drive-a-formula-1.php

A few years back, I read an article in an auto magazine that a British car journalist had the opportunity to drive a Toyota F1 car. At the end of the day he was only a little bit less than 10 seconds slower than the slowest F1 time on that track.

So how is it possible for non race car drivers, to drive an actual F1 car and Hammond wasn't? Because Hammond had to pretend that it is impossible to drive an F1 car.

Read this story:

http://www.pbase.com/cmanaginged/my_first_f1_drive

Not sure why he would pretend not to be able to drive it... at least not to the extent of looking like a complete incompetent.

The blond girl off 5th Gear is VBH (Vikky Bulter-Henderson)... quite hot in real life

Open wheelers are a bit of an acquired taste... first time I drove one (a formula ford) at Goodwood I just couldn't get any sort of a feel for how much grip it had. But a couple of years ago I got a chance to drive a Formula Palmer Audi (c.250 bhp, <500kg, wings and full slicks) at Bedford. Wow, what a car. Once I had some feel for the level of front end grip I found it quite easy to throw around... still prefer tin tops myself though.

 

[Vagabond]

A couple of interesting points to note...

Richard Hammond, as well as being a presenter, has a race license and is probably the best driver from the Top Gear team with the exception of the Stig. That notwithstanding, he was hesitant in the F1 car but then he didn't have unlimited time to practise in it.

"That blond girl" from 5th Gear (Vicki Butler-Henderson) is also a racing driver and her brother runs a race school. She certainly has more experience than Hammond.

There are alot of wild assumptions flying around about skill and difficulty but have any of the originators of these opinions ever driven an open wheel racer of any kind? Or even a race prepared car of any type? Its hard... very hard. They do not forgive mistakes, you cannot be sloppy on the exits and a twitchy foot, either brake or throttle, means sand or mud for dessert. If said car relies on downforce for grip at high speed the problems can be multiplied and 5 miles an hour can mean the difference between a sweeping bend and a slide-show.

Another small point to make about the Top Gear episode where Jeremy does Laguna Seca in an NSX... When playing the GT4 version, he didn't switch off ASM, or Traction Control thus making his GT lap an arcade effort rather than a sim. Driving an unaided NSX round Laguna in GT yielded similar results to his RL experience but withouth the fear of death.

Fear is the biggest difference between a mere mortal and a racing driver. A racing driver has none because hestation = not winning, which is why I gave up racing in the first place; doubt was creeping in.

 

[kikie]

Not sure why he would pretend not to be able to drive it... at least not to the extent of looking like a complete incompetent.

Sorry but maybe I didn't make myself clear. IMO, Hammond was told to pretend. It was not his idea. Again, it is just my personal opinion, that it is striking though that it is possible for other non racing drivers to drive a F1 car without any problem and Hammond had problems with it.

The blond girl off 5th Gear is VBH (Vikky Bulter-Henderson)... quite hot in real life

I was referring to the open wheel, single seaters. There is a championship with older retired F1 race car drivers and I can't remember the name of these race cars.
It's something like AGP1 cars, or something like that.

 

[Stotty]

I was referring to the open wheel, single seaters. There is a championship with older retired F1 race car drivers and I can't remember the name of these race cars.
It's something like AGP1 cars, or something like that.

GP Masters... but the drivers are all ex-F1 or IRL/Indy car drivers... and as such are super talented.

General comment....

No argument, F1 drivers ARE super talented (with the odd exception where sponsor ship money is what's got them behind the wheel)... you only need to read the various stuff in the car mags over the years written by respected journo's about how good their car control is (Russel Bulgin wirtting about Senna picking him up from the airport in a Merc 500 SEC back in the 80's and diving him to Wales at breakneck speed is one of the best) to know that. And it's not just bravery/lack of fear... Look at how much faster the proper racing drivers are in the Top Gear 'star in a reasonably priced car' thing - they are on another level when it comes to feel for turn in speed and grip levels.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

i doubt hammond was faking it in the episode. the odds are he didnt have enough time to get comfortable in the car that made his laps so horrible. remember he got thrown into the F1 car because if he were to spend time getting adjusted to the world series car his neck muscels would have given out before he could drive the F1. but once thrown into the F1 besides his extremly embarrassing stalls he didnt have time to get to learn very much in the F1 car. im sure he had more gos around the track then the 2 that were shown on camera but probably not nearly enough to learn all the brake points or the corner speeds or any of the other things one would need to know to drive the car effectively. im sure he could have done alot better if he had the time to figure these things out but he didnt have it.

 

[paolopepper]

well personally i love the f1 car it jsut feels right going round fuji ive done a 1:16 before

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

have any of the originators of these opinions ever driven an open wheel racer of any kind?

I've driven Coyote Karts and at 140+ mph the world goes by at what seems like 500+.

The one thing that I remember most was what it took to go into a tight turn and stay in the gas so you'd actually make it through the turn and not slide off into the dirt. Getting over the urge to apply the brakes while cornering takes a bit of trust in the old tires and as anyone who has driven at that speed on a track knows, letting off the throttle in the corner can be just as disastrous.

 

[Mad94d]

I love the F2007, I think it's easy to drive. Somehow I don't think it would be that easy to drive in real life. Hammond showed that, but you could also see that last year with out traction control how hard they are to drive.