Failures of Motorsports - Car Designs, Team Mistakes and More

[Har1MAS1415]

Whoosh
I was just referencing this numbn**s of a Mercedes fanboy from last year:

What a nutcase!

Lamborghini didn't fare much better as an engine supplier in F1. Only 1 podium and 20 points in 5 years of trying. I like to think the late Ayrton Senna was right about the Lambo engine that McLaren tested in 1993.

 

[Liquid]

Whoosh
I was just referencing this numbn**s of a Mercedes fanboy from last year:

Poe's law.

No idea what the reference was.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

The Maserati Bi-Turbo in Touring Car Racing in the late-1980s.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

The Maserati Bi-Turbo in Touring Car Racing in the late-1980s.

Okay, why?

 

[Jimlaad43]

Okay, why?

We could do with "Why" being part of the rules for this thread. Expand on why it's a failure because then we can have a discussion about it, rather than a lack of context statement.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

We could do with "Why" being part of the rules for this thread. Expand on why it's a failure because then we can have a discussion about it, rather than a lack of context statement.

Absolutely. It's just confusing and annoying otherwise

 

[Har1MAS1415]

We could do with "Why" being part of the rules for this thread. Expand on why it's a failure because then we can have a discussion about it, rather than a lack of context statement.

That's actually a good idea. I only didn't elaborate right away because I had a long day yesterday and I was really tired.

Okay, why?

Well, the Maserati Biturbo was certainly a failure in the British Touring Car Championship. Appearing regularly over the course of the 1988 and 1989 seasons in the hands of Trident Motorsport, the Maserati's best result was 14th at Brands Hatch in 1988 and was usually seen either retiring or fighting with the lower classes, despite being in the same class as the Ford Sierra Cosworth.

Even according to racingsportscars.com, the Biturbo's best result in the European Touring Car Championship over the course of 1987 and 1988 was 12th in the 1987 Tourist Trophy.

Background Stories: Maserati

 

[Liquid]

1980s and Maserati says it all.

 

[TheCracker]

Lambo tried it first. Made their car look like F3 and was about as competitive.

Brabham/Gordon Murray arguably went down that road even earlier in the 70's with the BT42/44s.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

Team Merzario

You've got to admire "Little Art's" determination and enthusiasm but all things considered, setting up his own team was a failure, not just in F1. Arturo's best result in 3 years of trying was 11th and last in an non-Championship race at Imola in 1979, this was also the only time he made the finish with his own cars (He came 16th and last at Anderstorp in 1978 but he wasn't classified as he was 8 laps down). His only finish in the World Championship was 14th and last of the classified finishers (Boy Hayje's RAM Racing March wasn't classified) at Zolder in 1977 with his old March.

Even in European F2, the best Team Merzario managed was a flukey pair of podiums in 1981, otherwise they never finished any higher than 6th and never scored after 1982. The team also tried their luck in the 1980 BMW M1 Procar Championship but managed no better than a pair of 7ths. Not to mention buying the ill-fated Kauhsen F1 car and using it as a basis for one of their own cars.

 

[TheCracker]

There were a lot of ungainly looking F1 cars in the late 70's, but the Merzario A1 was certainly one of the worst.

 

[GT PRO-AM]

Team Merzario

You've got to admire "Little Art's" determination and enthusiasm but all things considered, setting up his own team was a failure, not just in F1. Arturo's best result in 3 years of trying was 11th and last in an non-Championship race at Imola in 1979, this was also the only time he made the finish with his own cars (He came 16th and last at Anderstorp in 1978 but he wasn't classified as he was 8 laps down). His only finish in the World Championship was 14th and last of the classified finishers (Boy Hayje's RAM Racing March wasn't classified) at Zolder in 1977 with his old March.

Even in European F2, the best Team Merzario managed was a flukey pair of podiums in 1981, otherwise they never finished any higher than 6th and never scored after 1982. The team also tried their luck in the 1980 BMW M1 Procar Championship but managed no better than a pair of 7ths. Not to mention buying the ill-fated Kauhsen F1 car and using it as a basis for one of their own cars.

Not to mention that at Monza '78 the second car, put on the track for Alberto Colombo (DNPQ), had as its main sponsor a funeral home, "La Varesina".

How many curious stories from those years, anyway. And even if some projects failed, in a certain way they were forgiven for it.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

Not to mention that at Monza '78 the second car, put on the track for Alberto Colombo (DNPQ), had as its main sponsor a funeral home, "La Varesina".

How many curious stories from those years, anyway. And even if some projects failed, in a certain way they were forgiven for it.

Sounds like an appropriate sponsor. Team Merzario was just one particular unsuccessful endeavour in the World of Motorsport that happened to spring to my mind.

There were a lot of ungainly looking F1 cars in the late 70's, but the Merzario A1 was certainly one of the worst.

Agreed. Even Gulf logos couldn't save the 1978 Merzario from being utterly repulsive to look at.

 

[05XR8]

Team mistake. Manabu Orido(of Super GT and Best Motiring fame) at the wheel.

 

[Anathema]

There is at least a good ending to that.

Spoiler: Race results

In doing so, he avoided being classified as a DNF and scored enough points between this and a 6th place in the next race to take the championship.

Translates to "I'd never quit on a race."

 

[Har1MAS1415]

There is at least a good ending to that.

Spoiler: Race results

In doing so, he avoided being classified as a DNF and scored enough points between this and a 6th place in the next race to take the championship.

Translates to "I'd never quit on a race."

Reminds me of Nigel Mansell at Dallas in 1984 somehow.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

If only he played the GT7 fuel challenges.

 

[toastet]

If only he played the GT7 fuel challenges.

Not sure if his setup is PS4/5 compatible. Up there in the red "container" (just wall decoration resembling the Yokohama port).

 

[Har1MAS1415]

Automobili Turismo e Sport (The Italian ATS)

Formed by a breakaway group from Ferrari, with Carlo Chiti and Giotto Bizzarrini leading the project and Count Giovanni Volpi of Scuderia Serenissima providing sponsorship. The team entered the 1963 Season with Phil Hill and Giancarlo Baghetti as their drivers and the 1.5 litre V8-powered Tipo 100 chassis. Unfortunately, the car was renowned for its fragility, especially when it came to the flexibility of the chassis. This wasn't helped by the fact that every time the engine needed changing or other internals required work, the chassis had to be sawn through and welded back together, increasing the likelihood of breakages of various descriptions. The team ended up only contesting half the races (and none of the non-Championship races) in the 1963 Season and only in their home Grand Prix at Monza did the cars make the finish, albeit in 11th (Hill) and 15th (Baghetti, though by today's standards, he would have been unclassified as he was 23 laps down on race winner Jim Clark), with their lead car lapped 7 times.

The team pulled out at the end of the season and their drivers would only score 1 point between them in the remainder of their respective F1 careers. The car was sold to Vic Derrington and Alf Francis and briefly returned under the Derrington-Francis name at the 1964 Italian GP in the hands of Portugal's Mario de Araujo Cabral, retiring after 25 laps but nonetheless, proving more competitive than it had in all the times it had raced as an ATS. Further appearances were ruled out when the team's only chassis was damaged in a testing accident with Dan Gurney at the wheel.

8W - What? - ATS

Topic: Automobili Turismo e Sport. Other subjects: Enzo Ferrari, Laura Ferrari, Carlo Chiti, Giovanni Volpi, Serenissima, Ferrari, Phil Hill, Giancarlo Baghetti. Authors: Mattijs Diepraam, Felix Muelas.

8w.forix.com

8W - What? - Derrington-Francis

Topic: Derrington-Francis. Other subjects: ATS, Mario Cabral, Alf Francis. Authors: Mattijs Diepraam, Felix Muelas.

8w.forix.com

F1 Rejects - Rebels Without Speed: The ATS Fiasco

Damon Hill was not the first World Champion to move to a team which general wisdom regarded as second-rate. His namesake Phil Hill had done likewise in 1963 for Automobile Turismo e Sport (ATS).

web.archive.org

Also, the team had to miss the 1963 German GP because their transporter crashed, that's worse than Andrea Moda missing the French GP by getting caught in a blockade!

 

[Suzuki-Cara]

I'm sure a lot know about Lotus in F1 and how their twilight years were a shadow of their former selves. But here in America, Lotus might as well be Subaru trying to compete in F1.

To put it in perspective: In 2012, five teams ran Lotus engines, three had to switch mid-season due to how poor they performed.

Lotus' only season in Indycar only net them a top 10 at Alabama with Sebastian Bourdais before his team switched.

Their Indy 500 performance saw only two cars running Lotus engines, and both got 105'd.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

I'm sure a lot know about Lotus in F1 and how their twilight years were a shadow of their former selves. But here in America, Lotus might as well be Subaru trying to compete in F1.

To put it in perspective: In 2012, five teams ran Lotus engines, three had to switch mid-season due to how poor they performed.

Lotus' only season in Indycar only net them a top 10 at Alabama with Sebastian Bourdais before his team switched.

Their Indy 500 performance saw only two cars running Lotus engines, and both got 105'd.

A decade and a half prior....

Lotus Elise GT1

The Lotus Esprit had been a mainstay of the BPR Global GT Endurance Series since the category was launched in 1994. The best performances had been winning the GT3 Class at the Silverstone 4 Hours in 1995 and finishing 2nd outright at the same event in 1996.

When the category evolved into the FIA GT Championship for 1997, the ageing Esprit was replaced by the Elise. Six cars took part in the 1997 Season, three of which were powered by 6 Litre Chevrolet V8 engines originally designed for the Corvette and run by Lotus Racing (although the #15 car was taken over by the First Racing Project team after 1 race), two by GBF UK and using the less reliable Lotus V8 with a 3rd Lotus-powered car entered by Martin Veyhle Racing from Spa onwards. It would be one of the GBF entries that would secure the Elise's first finish (35th and last at Silverstone, talk about a happy hunting ground) and only points of the season with a 5th place at Helsinki, each time in the hands of Andrea Boldrini and Mauro Martini, although the latter result was largely thanks to a reduced field and race distance. The car finished no higher than 8th at Spa thereafter and by the end of the season, the Lotus Elise GT1 contingent was down to just two. Even in the Le Mans 24 Hour race, in which one of the Chevy-powered cars was entered (there were actually five Lotus Elise GT1s entered, according to racingsportscars.com, but two didn't turn up, one didn't pre-qualify and one didn't qualify), the Elise lasted only 1/3 distance before retiring. Lack of pace and reliability from the car and the engines that had powered it as well as expense and too much similarity to the production version of the Elise brought the curtain down on the project.

The story doesn't end there though as the Hezemans family bought two of the Chevy-powered Lotus Elise GT1s and reworked them into what became known as the Bitter GT1s in agreement with independent German car manufacturer Eric Bitter and now powered by Chrysler V10 engines as used in the Viper. The cars were entered in the 1998 FIA GT Championship, missing the opening round at Oschersleben and debuting at Silverstone. Once again, Silverstone would be where the car put in its best performance, albeit a double DNF after just over 1/5 distance, by which time, the Bitter GT1 had performed even worse than it had as a Lotus. Both cars turned up for the next round at Hockenheim but barely got to practice due to various problems, the gearbox being the most frequent so the cars were non-starters, the Bitter GT1's season ended there and then.

The final chapter of the story of the Lotus Elise GT1 came in the form of Team Elite buying one of the Chevy-powered cars and entering it in the LMP1 class at the 2004 Sebring 12 Hours. The car was slowest of the LMP1 runners in qualifying (we're talking 20 seconds off the pace of the Audi R8 LMP here) and lasted only 7 laps before the transmission failed and was the first retirement in its class. Plans to enter the car at Le Mans were cancelled and the Lotus Elise GT1 never raced again.

 

[Liquid]

I hated it in GT2 because it was so skittish and I had no idea how setups worked as a kid.

 

[SestoScudo]

This Aston Martin was such an embarassment.

It sounded good but damn even watching 24 Hours of Lemans live and seeing Aston Martin not even making a dent on Audi and Peugeot.

Im surprised Aston Martin allowed the AMR One in Forza Motorsport 4 as a dlc because AM could have easily disowned it wiped it out from memory like what Mercedes Benz did to the CLR.

 

[RACECAR]

Im surprised Aston Martin allowed the AMR One in Forza Motorsport 4 as a dlc because AM could have easily disowned it wiped it out from memory like what Mercedes Benz did to the CLR.

Well, not quite. Two still exist, one that was sold to a private collector and one of the car that flipped actually sits at former AMG partner HWA put back together (Though not sure if its fully functional or just static).

 

[Har1MAS1415]

I hated it in GT2 because it was so skittish and I had no idea how setups worked as a kid.

Sounds like the Lotus Elise GT1 was no better in Gran Turismo 2 than it was in reality.

 

[Liquid]

Well, not quite. Two still exist, one that was sold to a private collector and one of the car that flipped actually sits at former AMG partner HWA put back together (Though not sure if its fully functional or just static).

The car may still exist but Mercedes-Benz don't exactly talk about it much.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

The car may still exist but Mercedes-Benz don't exactly talk about it much.

No surprise there, the 1999 Le Mans 24 Hours was the first one I ever watched on TV, meant I got to see Peter Dumbreck's flying Merc.

 

[Barra333]

They didn't want to acknowledge it at the time either. I've read accounts from Webber saying they didn't believe it was the car (and not him) until after the 3rd blowover.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

They didn't want to acknowledge it at the time either. I've read accounts from Webber saying they didn't believe it was the car (and not him) until after the 3rd blowover.

Thus they realised they had a problem that blew over but didn't go away. They did the right thing withdrawing the #6 car after the Dumbreck accident.

 

[WiisardNic]

They didn't want to acknowledge it at the time either. I've read accounts from Webber saying they didn't believe it was the car (and not him) until after the 3rd blowover.

Yep, was in his book. Mark claims that they didn't believe him (apparently there weren't cameras/footage around the whole circuit back in 1999 - or at least not until the race itself) until it happened during the race itself.