Fanatec ClubSport and CSR Elite wheel owners Motor Mod Poll

[eKretz]

Hey guys, I'm working with a motor manufacturer to develop some replacement motors for the Fanatec wheels that should be just as strong or stronger, just as smooth or smoother, and solve the reduction in power due to heat issues of the stock motors, as well as lasting much longer and being serviceable with new brushes, unlike the stock motors. The pricing is looking like it might be around the $140 per motor range ($280 for a pair) but we're not sure yet. These will have neodymium magnets and an innovative cooling solution built in. I'm interested in hearing comments and thoughts as well as seeing what sort of interest level there is for these motors. They will be direct replacements that will bolt right in to the stock motor mount. We're thinking about offering a more modded even stronger version also but that would require some fit modifications.

Vote #1 if you would prefer the drop-in motors that would be the same or slightly stronger than stock but much more reliable and longer lasting and pick whether you could handle your own installation or if you would prefer to be able to send your wheel in for installation. Please note that I typed the 2nd poll choice; it should read "Yes, #1, would pay for installation."

Vote #2 if you would prefer much stronger motors that would require more intensive modding to fit and perhaps a new power supply to run, and choose whether you could handle your own modifications/installation or if you would prefer to be able to send your wheel in for installation and modifications.

The other votes are self-explanatory, but please add your thoughts in a comment to expand on your reasoning.

Please feel free to link this poll to forums where people might have some interest.

 

[mrbasher]

Is Stan (RacerXX) a part of this, or is this between you and the motor manufacturer?

 

[eKretz]

No, Stan (RacerXX) is not involved in this.

 

[mrbasher]

K thanks eKretz.

The part about sending the wheel in is what had me curious and needed clarification.

 

[eKretz]

I added that part since a lot of people have expressed concerns about even installing the motors themselves. Not to mention if we need to install pulleys, mod cooling and add new power supplies and/or augment the drive MOSFETs.

 

[LeMansAid]

Would feel confident to do #1, especially since others on here might be doing the same thing at the same time. Even more keen on number #2 - self install if I could get myself up for job, and have some decent guidance. I like the idea of doing it all myself, not because I trust my abilities in this department, but because I will know who to point the finger at if it does not work out right..... me.

People might want to know if #1 could be returned to stock in the event of a warranty issue with other components. I would assume that this would not be an option for the more beastly version.

Clicked on #1 for minimum want.

Now.... something's missing here.... Oh yeah, don't have a CSW.... yet.

 

[LogiForce]

I seriously am devided at the moment between my T500 and my CSW. Especially since I need more parts than just motors to get my CSW going again.

If my CSW was working, maybe I'd say "yes". However, I found that the T500 has its technical advantages as well. So even than I would have to think about going back to the CSW, let alone put 280 dollars into it.

Also the fact that Fanatec doesn't seem to send me any parts what so ever (my request keep disappearing in the round archive after having made promises with me), also makes it hard for me to say anything on this.

Still my thumbs up to you eKretz on making this possible for the community and I hope it will be succesful.

 

[eKretz]

Option #1 would be easily returnable to stock, since it would just be a bolt-in deal. You'd basically just need to unbolt the motors and swap them (and change the pulleys over from one set to the other).

LogiForce, what's wrong with your CSW?

 

[LogiForce]

Option #1 would be easily returnable to stock, since it would just be a bolt-in deal. You'd basically just need to unbolt the motors and swap them (and change the pulleys over from one set to the other).

LogiForce, what's wrong with your CSW?

I need a limiter that is cut more properly, as mine keeps rattling to the point of waking up people when playing rFactor 2.
Belts have had it and started slipping more than they should (even after tensioning), then tried belt dressing for the heck of it. Which worked, but it made a mess inside the CSW with rubber droplets (because of acetone) flying through the CSW base itself. (have cleaned it all up though)
Pulley have become slippery as well due to long term slippage.
The motors are still the old kind (Thomas said to replace the motor block as well).
Both rims need new shifter mechanisms and switches.
Plus some screws were worn due to the loctite not wishing to let go, and I miss a screw from on button on the BMW rim.

So yeah, a lot more needs to be done to get it going again.
In the end I feel like converting it to drivebelts might be better as well, as they will not slip (unless they become very loose).
The thing I noticed and also communicated with Remco (from the WMD forum) with is that due to the slippage you don't notice the smaller effects, or they tend to fade when other effects start to overlap.

Anyways, I have been in contact with Fanatec (via Thomas to Armin) about this now since the 2nd of February. The parts are not usual parts to replace and it takes time to get them, Armin said. Every time the communication silence is disturbing and when you get back to them after a few weeks "oh, sorry it totally slipped my mind).
Then again I feel I can't be too pushy about it either as I don't have any warranty, since Thomas gave the CSW and rims to me.

 

[LeMansAid]

Just saying hello to this thread to make sure it does not drop too low too quickly. Would not want potentially interested parties to miss it. Thanks for putting in the time and effort eK. Also, wondering if one motor mod could be purchased by people that own the Porsche style wheels since they use the same motors if I am not mistaken. Could expand the demographic if that was made known. I would certainly consider getting hold of two from the outset, using one in my GT3 knowing that a CSW will be in my near future.

 

[eKretz]

Depending on how the motor is mounted in those wheels and how much room is available, possibly. However, IIRC, the CSW and Elite use considerably more amperage than the older wheels, so I'm not sure how it would work and I don't have one to test.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Interesting just found the thread, voted one. Will follow this as it seems it will also fix the cooling issue.👍

neodymium magnets motor (LOL)

 

[eKretz]

Hah, that's a really neat little motor. I had never heard of a homopolar motor until then.

 

[lemansfanatic]

ekretz I have admired your work thus far in the other thread. This poll seems a little strange to me because your asking people to lean one way or another not based on them having experience doing these types of mods themselves yet. While I like what you are trying to do I might play devils advocate and say that there needs to be a more clearly defined path based on concluded work (like what you are doing in the other thread). Otherwise the choices seem vague and uncertainty will play a role in the voting.

 

[LogiForce]

eKretz, just wanted to let you know my parts are on their way.

Also went for #1. Reason is that I fear that due to the v-belt slippage you'd feel even less nuances in the FFB when far stronger motor(s) would be utilized. I think this would than require a different method of power delivery, toothed belt or something else, that has more proper grip.

 

[eKretz]

ekretz I have admired your work thus far in the other thread. This poll seems a little strange to me because your asking people to lean one way or another not based on them having experience doing these types of mods themselves yet. While I like what you are trying to do I might play devils advocate and say that there needs to be a more clearly defined path based on concluded work (like what you are doing in the other thread). Otherwise the choices seem vague and uncertainty will play a role in the voting.

One reason I have the poll set up the way I do is to get a feel for the number of people who feel they would need assistance to do the installation. Option 2 would not be for the average DIY person. Most likely it would involve adding a separate new power supply and extra cooling to the circuit board componentry and possibly replacing board level surface mount devices, so it could require soldering work. The entire point of asking the questions the way I did was to get an idea of how many people had only the confidence in their ability to install a drop-in replacement, and it looks like the vast majority (about 2 to 1 or so) would prefer that option. I also have a poll at iRacing and on that one I have gotten over 125 votes. Once I have received motors and finalized all installation requirements myself and tested everything, then I will offer more in-depth info. Until then, I can't really get too specific with imaginary motors.

 

[eKretz]

LogiForce, great news! I hope everything goes together and works out for you! I'm not so sure that slippage is a big problem, as I have more than doubled my wheel's torque, from ~ 5N•m stock to about 13N•m, and after re tensioning the belts properly (almost all the slippage was at the pulley on the left side, on the wider belt going to the steering wheel pulley). My wheel feels great, and I don't feel that I have lost any of the sharp response my wheel has had since new. I watch my belts for slippage and I don't get a whole lot at all. If we do end up making motors for option 2 also, they will be thoroughly tested for any problems before they would be offered for purchase. If a synchronous belt were necessary, it would certainly be built into and offered as part of the mod, since it would be beyond most persons' capabilities to do that work themselves (making the pulleys).

Perhaps you should have your pulleys bead-blasted and install new belts to remedy your problems with slippage. I wouldn't recommend using belt dressing as it will eventually eat the belt and make a mess inside the wheel, as you found out the hard way.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Then I vote to show people an option that allows for additional cooling but one that would run off its own 12volt power supply and wouldnt require soldiering. Like option one, a simple drop in motor upgrade plus added cooling via its own power adapter. This option only requires drilling a hole through the case for another power wire coming out of the case to power liquid cooling.

 

[eKretz]

Well, that might be useful for a "Stage 2" setup, but that setup will most likely need some board-level work done to improve reliability. I can't say for certain until I get the motors and start testing. Talking about all that right now is putting the cart in front of the horse, however, IMO. Until the "Stage 1" setup is dialed in I'm not going to start planning too far ahead on Stage 2. It may be that Stage 2 will use the same motors as Stage 1 but with more voltage and amperage, which may or may not require extra cooling and board-level modifications. Or it may be that Stage 2 goes brushless. No idea yet.

 

[LogiForce]

LogiForce, great news! I hope everything goes together and works out for you! I'm not so sure that slippage is a big problem, as I have more than doubled my wheel's torque, from ~ 5N•m stock to about 13N•m, and after re tensioning the belts properly (almost all the slippage was at the pulley on the left side, on the wider belt going to the steering wheel pulley). My wheel feels great, and I don't feel that I have lost any of the sharp response my wheel has had since new. I watch my belts for slippage and I don't get a whole lot at all. If we do end up making motors for option 2 also, they will be thoroughly tested for any problems before they would be offered for purchase. If a synchronous belt were necessary, it would certainly be built into and offered as part of the mod, since it would be beyond most persons' capabilities to do that work themselves (making the pulleys).

Perhaps you should have your pulleys bead-blasted and install new belts to remedy your problems with slippage. I wouldn't recommend using belt dressing as it will eventually eat the belt and make a mess inside the wheel, as you found out the hard way.

Actually I requested the blasted type pulleys from Armin. So if all is well I hope they are in the package along with new belts.
Please take in consideration though that I have a beta version of the CSW. So your experience might be a bit different due to changes made along the way by Fanatec.

Also I will be making a video of me taking apart almost the entire CSW to put in all the requested parts. Though I problem need to cut and edit it as I know I will encounter some stubborn parts along the way.
I don't know when the video will be up though. Hopefully somewhere in the next month and as soon as possible for me.
In any case it should provide helpful to some folks.

 

[eKretz]

Yeah, the video is a good idea. I'm not aware if they really made any changes from the beta versions that would affect slippage, but perhaps it would behoove you to install a 3-rib motor belt while you're in there if you feel it is slipping at the motor pulleys. If you need any assistance or help with assembly/disassembly I'd be happy to help, just shoot me a PM.

 

[LogiForce]

Yeah, the video is a good idea. I'm not aware if they really made any changes from the beta versions that would affect slippage, but perhaps it would behoove you to install a 3-rib motor belt while you're in there if you feel it is slipping at the motor pulleys. If you need any assistance or help with assembly/disassembly I'd be happy to help, just shoot me a PM.

No need, already had it almost completely dismantled.
There are just a couple of stubborn connectors that don't like to let go. Plus I need to remove some glue that is on the steering wheel cable connector (I believe its not there on the retail ones).

I only need to get myself a pair of decent pliers for those C-clips.
Also I keep forgetting (since like forever) to buy me a magnetic dish to drop in screws and so on. So will get that as well, since it will be embarrassing if the screws and so on disappear.

I also asked for a 3 rib belt. Again I don't know if all my requests have been honored, but that question will be answered on Monday late afternoon. UPS should be here by that time if all is well.

 

[eKretz]

Great! The hot glue is indeed there on the newer production wheels. It is easily removed with a hot air gun like those used for soldering rework. Heck, even a hair blow dryer will probably do the job. I would recommend getting new e-clips as well, the ones they used are pretty cheap and bend very easily. I usually use one of those plastic dividers for my small parts and screws when taking things apart; like the little ones often used for fishing tackle with all the separate compartments.

 

[LogiForce]

Great! The hot glue is indeed there on the newer production wheels. It is easily removed with a hot air gun like those used for soldering rework. Heck, even a hair blow dryer will probably do the job. I would recommend getting new e-clips as well, the ones they used are pretty cheap and bend very easily. I usually use one of those plastic dividers for my small parts and screws when taking things apart; like the little ones often used for fishing tackle with all the separate compartments.

That's one thing I don't have. A hair dryer (a guy with very short hair doesn't need one ) or a hot air gun.
They used e-clips? Must have not looked properly enough at it. I could've sworn they were c-clips. Hmmm, will see when I get there.
That's handy too, or even better. Haven't got any spare in my fishing gear though. Fortunately they aren' that expensive.

 

[eKretz]

No, you're right, they're c-clips, I just quickly typed and wasn't thinking. But they are still cheap crap and mine bent just from being removed. I don't have a hair dryer either, just thought I'd suggest it, maybe you could borrow one?

 

[HoiHman]

No need, already had it almost completely dismantled.
There are just a couple of stubborn connectors that don't like to let go. Plus I need to remove some glue that is on the steering wheel cable connector (I believe its not there on the retail ones).

I only need to get myself a pair of decent pliers for those C-clips.
Also I keep forgetting (since like forever) to buy me a magnetic dish to drop in screws and so on. So will get that as well, since it will be embarrassing if the screws and so on disappear.

I also asked for a 3 rib belt. Again I don't know if all my requests have been honored, but that question will be answered on Monday late afternoon. UPS should be here by that time if all is well.

Take the wheel with you on tuesday, i probably have the tools for removing the C clips

Remove the glue with a small srew driver, not a hairdryer. The glue will simply break off the connector. It's also on the retail wheels. I had to remove it too when i replaced my QR.

The fanatec manual also recommends using a screw driver.

 

[LogiForce]

Take the wheel with you on tuesday, i probably have the tools for removing the C clips

Remove the glue with a small srew driver, not a hairdryer. The glue will simply break off the connector. It's also on the retail wheels. I had to remove it too when i replaced my QR.

The fanatec manual also recommends using a screw driver.

A pair of pliers from Okaphone.nl (local electronics shop like Radioshack) are cheap and I wish to do as much in front of the camera as possible. Besides, having tools about the house is never bad.

I guess the glue is going to be screwed

Did the manual say anything about reapplying anything like hot glue or tape?

 

[HoiHman]

No it did't. I just put a small piece of ducktape over the connector

 

[Gunstar]

Option 1, always nice to have better than stock replacement/mod options.

 

[FatnSlo]

Any new info yet on these motors? My CSRE motors have fried again even after keeping the FFB at %60 or lower. Really regret buying this wheel.