Fanatec CSL Seat Review + ClubSport family vs. T500RS in GT5

  • Thread starter amar212
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paskowitz
It really depends. The T500RS is faster and crisper (less dampened) but can sometimes be jolting (too harsh). The CSW is slower and a little muted but is more natural feeling (smooth).

It depends on what feeling you prefer. Neither is really "better" than the other. If I had to say which is better I would say the T500RS is better for drifting and the CSW for precision driving.

I do think the dampening problem in the CSW could be fixed with a lighter alternative to the BMW GT rim. Something that has minimal circuitry (only a tuning function like the CSRE) and no paddles. Obviously this is not available now, and will likely not available anytime soon. It would require the stationary paddle shifter accessory and a button box.
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hey cheers for taking time out to answer, i also have my own views that i have made just by watching videos,

in this scenario you can actually get a pretty decent idea of which wheel counter steers more realistically, and get a good idea of sensations just by watching videos, especially if you have experience of letting the wheel counter itself in real life.

i would still like a answer from amar because this guy seems to be well respected and has used alot of gear so his opinion interests me, he says csw beats or equals t500 in all driving sensations.

all i would like to know is if he thinks csw beats or equals t500 in counter steer sensation.

so amar does csw beat it or equal it?
 
BLACK86
i would still like a answer from amar because this guy seems to be well respected and has used alot of gear so his opinion interests me, he says csw beats or equals t500 in all driving sensations.

all i would like to know is if he thinks csw beats or equals t500 in counter steer sensation.

so amar does csw beat it or equal it?
Click to expand...

I would say it equals it. Countersteer is one particular area where many wheel/game combos can rise or fail and for me personally the countersteer sensation is one of the utmost importance (the main reason why I so loved what CSR Elite delivered back in 2011).

Also please notice how you can change the countersteer feel (sensation) on the CSW by altering few inter-connected parameters in the wheel-tuning menu: Damper, Spring, Power and Drift. By altering the values of those you can significantly enhance the countersteer sensation.

For those interested, Fanatec has made a nice video that shows CSL Seat Assembly process, it is great guide for all that will tackle the CSL assembly for the first time:

 
amar212
For those interested, Fanatec has made a nice video that shows CSL Seat Assembly process, it is great guide for all that will tackle the CSL assembly for the first time:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they make a little mistake (not a mistake if you like very upright position) in their video that may make some people take some parts apart again if only going by the video.
 
Yes the CSL Seat certainly is rigid and sturdy. I enjoyed putting mine together last night. I'm using the seat with a > Double Strength CSR Elite wheel (four stock motors) and CSP V2 pedals set firm and with 10x damping strength for brake hydraulic damping in the apply direction 0x damping on release. The CSL Seat takes all that in stride and now my FFB feels sharper compared to when I was using my Rennsport Stand. This is due to eliminating wobble coming from all the extra strength FFB signals.

My first mod for the seat was increasing Lumbar Support. The seat comes with 6 webbing straps for the back rest. The black fabric strips with the red stripes in the image below. Using some very firm foam, I added two layers to the lower 3 straps. I used foam I cut from a gel floor mat, you know the kind made to cut fatigue for those that stand in one spot doing a task. I used the smooth side, the other side has a fake diamond plate pattern to it, as seen in one of my pedal videos. This mod takes just a few moments to install from start to finish. The foam stays in place on its own. Since the seat cover comes off quickly, it's easy to try out things like this idea. My second mod is wire tucking everything combined with a more direct (fewer adapters, more easily adjustable) wheel base mount.

CSL-Lumbar_zps8f0b8cf4.png


Oh yeah the included rectangular bracket for non-Fanatec shifters can be made into an ad hoc switch panel. I need some indicator lights for the center, but for now I am in the process of moving my load cell pot (labelled "Brake") along with the adjuster for the stronger pedal motor ("ABS") and the throttle curve adjuster ("Gas"). Those live on the sides of the respective levers presently. For the moment, I am using the old plastic sequential shifter as an e-brake when pulled toward you. That will change when the CSS comes out. I want to have that work with a vertical / horizontal acting hydro e-brake.

shiftswitch_zps30ab2fda.png
 
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About 4-5 more hours into my CSL Seat experience.

* The Lumbar Mod definitely helps me feel more comfortable. Costs next to nothing. Just scissor cut some firm foam and slide it into place.

* I've made 2-3 adjustments to suit driving position. This requires allen wrenches and effort. Such as lowering the wheel hoop, changing wheel base angle and moving the wheel hoop toward the pedals. So for things besides seat forward or back this is definitely not a quick change rig. This does not bother me as only I use the rig with any degree of seriousness. But if your seat will be frequently used by several of different sizes, someone is going to have to be uncomfortable. It is easy to reach the two seat adjuster knobs, and once loose you can grip the side A-Frame rail to assist positioning. It's like reaching down to your sides to access the wheels in a wheelchair.

* The rigidity certainly helps steering precision. However the impression of crash violence has decreased compared to my Rennsport Stand. That one would wobble back and forth or even come off the ground (!) with my four motor FFB force. Yet, the seat is not large and is easy to move since it is not heavy.

* I'll be adding a seat tilt adjustment. Probably two actually. One to rock the whole seat at it's base. And the other to adjust back rest angle independently from the leg zone. The latter can be done by integrating a seat side rail length adjuster - the back and seat portions already can pivot. So for that what I am thinking about is a twist grip (like a motorcycle throttle). These would live on each of the seat's side rails which make up the side bolsters.

* The CSR-Elite wheel base installs via the sheet metal angle gizmo. Which is attached to a rectangular tube. Which is attached to bent rods. Which are attached to the wheel hoop portion of the frame. I'm going to change all that to ONE mount, which allows no-tool angle and distance adjustment.

* For now I have zip tied some foam (same as in the Lumbar Mod image) to the ends of the pedal rails. There are some sharp corners and edges there and I don't want to gouge my foot walking in front of the unit. So now I have two "bumperettes" up front to protect me when I hit a tree during rally. ;-)

* I may install a cup holder ahead of the switch plate I showed yesterday. However the seating position is so low that you can just pivot your hand to the side and there is your beverage on the floor right next to you.

* The seat can accomodate both thin and thicker people quite well. I'm at a 34 inch waist presently, gotta work off some "Winter weight". There is no uncomfortable tightness like you'd find on some actual racing shell seats. For instance my old Recaro SPG seats really preferred around a 32 inch waist.
 
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Another comment after some F1 time.

This seat is easily converted from GT/Nascar/Rally into a Semi-Formula Seating Position. A nice, surprise bonus, especially since my CSR-Elite Formula rim is on preorder.

1) Make sure that the two short rods that go between the A-Frame and the seat slider rods are in the proper positions. S8 and S9 on the assembly PDF. Mine came mislabeled in the little baggies. So I had to switch those around. You want the long 53 mm version at the front of the seat. And the short 38 mm version at the back. This gives you more of a layback position. The other way around is more upright. See, you wind up raising one end 15 mm and lowering the other by the same amount. Since they are on opposite ends of the seat slider rods, this changes the seat angle quite a bit.

2) Raise the front of the entire unit at the pedal end about 8-10 inches. I used some wood for that. At first I used an aluminum car jack so that I could vary height as desired. I'll make a nice aluminum prop when I get the time.

3) Everything stays very stable. Ingress / egress remains the same. The frame elements that normally angle downward toward the pedals are now horizontal. And the pedals are hanging in the air. Surprisingly, the CSP V2 pedals work just fine like that but I will look into this further.

So in the end the 8-10 inch lift up front is the main thing to do, besides confirming your seat mounting as noted above. Other pedal option may not work out so easily, I have not tried others on this rig.
 
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RacerXX
1) Make sure that the two short rods that go between the A-Frame and the seat slider rods are in the proper positions. S8 and S9 on the assembly PDF. Mine came mislabeled in the little baggies. So I had to switch those around. You want the long 53 mm version at the front of the seat. And the short 38 mm version at the back. This gives you more of a layback position. The other way around is more upright. See, you wind up raising one end 15 mm and lowering the other by the same amount. Since they are on opposite ends of the seat slider rods, this changes the seat angle quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is important detail.

I am not sure did Fanatec made this on purpose or was it a mistake in labelling the bags - but I have longer one in front of my RGTR and I have initially assembled FCSL as in PDF and something seemed off.

I checked my RGTR and saw the difference and then moved the longer rods on front - and everything was perfect.

My vote for longer rods in front too 👍
 
battie83
I'm planning on buying the CSW wheel only! Can I use my T500RS pedal set with ClubSport Wheel Base?
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Battie,

Hmm, it's possible actually... Though you need a cable to do so. I could make you one fairly easily if you'd like as I have the necessary crimping tools already. It would work on anything the CSW will work with as the T500RS pedals would plug right into the wheel. Send me a PM and we'll work something out. :)
 
Hey, i have CSL Seat since few weeks and now i give your little feedback here

- ordering

no problem at all, payment was fast through paypal



- price

fairly average, not the cheapest not the most expensive

shipping cost is about 37 eur for standard delivery mode and 75 euro for express delivery mode.

if express offers you within 24/48 hours after payment, you re going to receive it quicky with standard option

they react quickly and it took me less than couple days to receive it.



- unboxing

smallest package i ever seen for such products, they has optimized every cubic centimeters

pay attention with unboxing because you might damage those tubes of cockpit



- first issue

i had 2 same specific screws S8 and S9.

i contacted them through Fanatec support but they didnt respond quickly but situation was eventually solved and they sent me good screws this time.

I dont want to whine for anything but sending me 2 specific screws, that means they dont control enough the manufacturing process

one screw or defect (e.g tube hole alignment) and you will be stuck.

they also need to be more responsive



- assembly

that was painful, it took me several hours, i stop counting

firstly, manual was pure joke, 1 ****ing paper

too simple, pictures were too small for seeing anything

indeed video did help me

comparing to my former cockpit, it was way longer, way difficult to build it properly

no mention to pedal support that was the hardest part to assembly correctly

one hour? rather 5/6 hours



- feeling

very stable, no wobble except when you sit/leave it, there are some bounce but nothing to worry about

i have clubsport wheel base attached on and its very stable

this cockpit allows you many settings such as angle wheel, pedals, seat...

personally those adjustments take time, i suggest you to find quickly the right position from the assembly

otherwise you can waste your time to adjust it

some adjustments are not easy to set it, i couldnt handle by myself, i needed someone else to adjust it (those tubes that supports wheel base)

the seat feels average, but you could improve it if you swap S8 and S9 from first instructions steps, it will incline more like F1 position

pedals support isnt really stable if you own loadcell pedals such as clubsport pedals

after hard breaking, it will rotate. manual doesnt explain how to fix it

there are some tips from Fanatec tutorial video but it didnt work.

i came to manage to find proper solution, put some wood plank under pedals base and it stops rotation and feel more stable (there is slight rotations because my wood plank is equally same size as my pedals,

either bigger wood plank will certainly hold pedals base much better or must bolt it)



conclusion

except the screw issue and the slowness from Fanatec, its fairly good cockpit, very stable but not very simple to assembly

the major weakness is pedals support that could rotate if you dont fix it well



PROS

- stable

- light cockpit

- adjustments

- price overall





CONS

- Fanatec they must improve some points, including true manuals and instructions in order to help customers, their customer support doesnt seem to be very fast to react

- adjustments require time to set it

- pedals support stability (inverted pedals option would be nice aswell)

- seat seems to be average and feels cheap if you compare to other brands (also known for being an issue for taller drivers)
Click to expand...

But i have some questions
although i followed instructions, when you make hard braking with loadcell pedals, pedal's support will rotate, adding a wood plan is still a DIY solution
dunno if you guys have made it to keep pedal support stable enough
the other question that i have its seat cover is bended
if you guys knows where i can find seat cover not necessarily from Fanatec
i noticed some backache after 1 hour of driving session
seat doesnt seems to be comfort after all
if you guys know if we can fix others seat into the cockpit
 
ultimate
Hey, i have CSL Seat since few weeks and now i give your little feedback here


although i followed instructions, when you make hard braking with loadcell pedals, pedal's support will rotate, adding a wood plan is still a DIY solution
dunno if you guys have made it to keep pedal support stable enough
the other question that i have its seat cover is bended

i noticed some backache after 1 hour of driving session
seat doesn't seems to be comfort after all
if you guys know if we can fix others seat into the cockpit
Click to expand...

I used to have the exact same issues that you mention here. I was REALLY disappointed with my CSL Seat because it gave me terrible neck, shoulders and back pain.

However I found out that I could exchange the 4 bolts (2 long and 2 short) that holds the seat.

I had put the shorter bolts in the front and the longer bolts at the back which made the seat stand almost straight up.

I then exchange the front and back bolts so that the longer bolts are at the front and the shorter at the back.

This change makes the seat lean back and give a much better (as intended) back support plus it doesn't make the pedals raise when I brake hard due to the fact that my whole body is leaning back in the seat.

The seat is great but the instructions are not :lol:
 
yes i started to swap those bolt since beginning
i have been warned before
i am also planning to make CSL as F1 type position
only need to find right measures for pedals and body cockpit inclination
seat cover is bended, what do you think guys if i remove seat cover, will i damage naked seat lol?
i found it prettier without seat cover
 
ultimate
yes i started to swap those bolt since beginning
i have been warned before
i am also planning to make CSL as F1 type position
only need to find right measures for pedals and body cockpit inclination
seat cover is bended, what do you think guys if i remove seat cover, will i damage naked seat lol?
i found it prettier without seat cover
Click to expand...


Don't know what you mean by "seat cover is bended" but I have removed mine a couple of times and then put it back on again without any problems. I also replaced the cord that holds the seat cover in place with a heavy duty rubber band that keeps the seat cover firmly in place.
 
Yeah me too had to swap the shorter bolts/mounting to the front and shorter in the back on the CSL seat, made a massive difference imho + "extra foam-mod" but to be 100% honest I drive mostly F1 so want a slightly more laid back more horizontal position though so not sure bolts can do that, probably need to a different seat all together for that so hope Fanatec manage to implement such features in the future generations of seats + maybe a way to mount the pedals slightly higher up as well and in different angle? The frame itself is such a sturdy smart little design and lightweight + easy to move after driving, I don´t use computer screens but instead drive in front of 120" screen + projector so have to move the seat when watching movies on same screen.

Yeah I know just ideas on how to improve but that´s only my personal taste/style and have to say overall it´s a great all round seat imho! Have had other solutions with real racer seats in the past and to me personally I prefer this one after the small adjustments, amazed by how such a simple design can be so good for hours of driving but we all different so obviously just my personal view.. Renato really had some great ideas when designing that thing.

A proper assembly PDF would be great though.
 

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