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danoff
Another point to make on this is that our soldiers weren't forced to join the military. They knew before signing on that should there be a war, they would have to fight.
Farenheit 9/11
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Another point to make on this is that our soldiers weren't forced to join the military. They knew before signing on that should there be a war, they would have to fight.
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- GTP_Duke
You know, I've seen a surprisingly large number of people who have said something on the order of:
NEWS AT 10:00, people: the Army is made up of soldiers! That's the real deal, not part of the fine print! It's a soldier's job to shoot people and get shot at! They have those benefits as a way of getting people to join, and to thank those who do serve! What special breed of idiot would be surprised to find themselves in a war after they joined the freaking military?!
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neon_duke
^^
ah, so true. But you would be surprised of the number of people in the military who think it's bullcrap that they are in a war. But they still do their jobs. danoff and anyone else : To see his movie without giving him your money simply buy a ticket for another movie at about the same time and just mosey on over into the 9/11 theatre after they check your ticket. How else do you think "White Girls" made #2 at the box office.
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neon_duke
Very well put. This just made my day.
Danoff
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Another clip I saw from this movie was one of Bush about to tee off at a golf course. He said something to the effect of "We're in Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people and get rid of a ruthless dicatator. Now watch this drive!"... and he smacked the ball.
Now. The thing you've got to remember is that Bush has been getting asked the same questions (and he gives the same responses) by the press for a year now since we were in Iraq. He's taking a breather at the golf course and has press hounding him about Iraq. He's having a good day and isn't going to let the press get him down so he gives his answer, the one that he's been giving for 6 months and then gets back to his day. He gets back to his golf in a way that says "STOP BOTHERING ME."
And this is supposed to show that bush doesn't really care about Iraq or that he takes too much vacation?
Weak.
Now. The thing you've got to remember is that Bush has been getting asked the same questions (and he gives the same responses) by the press for a year now since we were in Iraq. He's taking a breather at the golf course and has press hounding him about Iraq. He's having a good day and isn't going to let the press get him down so he gives his answer, the one that he's been giving for 6 months and then gets back to his day. He gets back to his golf in a way that says "STOP BOTHERING ME."
And this is supposed to show that bush doesn't really care about Iraq or that he takes too much vacation?
Weak.
- 995
I liked it, but I got very frustrated at what happens in this world. Hearing the planes crash, and see watching the people's reactions were depressing. No one deserves to die like this. You can dislike someone, you can hate someone, you can loathe someone, but why kill them? Are arguments really worth taking another person's life? Or because someone else wronged you, your supposed to go out and kill innocents to either get your point across or to terrorize people? But like I said in another post, "Eye for an eye, and soon everyone will be blind.". I still believe in, probably more than ever now. We were attacked, people died. We're attacking, people are dying. We treated captives wrongly, and a man was beheaded! What Ghandi said doesn't seem like a saying, or a quote, more like an observation of the way some humans act.
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I've just seen the movie, and I must say I'm very impressed by Moore's talent. Even if you wholeheartedly disagree with his views and you're eager to nitpick on every little details you want to prove wrong (nobody saw the movie yet, but it's already started...
), you have to admit the guy's extremely good at making an entertaining documentary movie. For the details, well you'll have to go see it for yourself. Don't worry: the entertainment value alone is well worth the ticket price, and as Klos said, I'm sure you'll get a few good laughs.
I'll have to digest its huge number of claims for myself first, before starting a debate over any of them. Let's just say that even if only 15% of them are the actual picture, that would still be quite embarassing for Bush's administration.
There's only one thing I'd like to point out. I don't want to spoil the party here, but even after today's step in a good direction for Iraq, which you are cheering, polls still seems to split the pubic opinion in half in the US about the legitimacy of this war. This movie is currently on top of the box-office in the US (even if it is only presented in a rather small amount of theaters - 836 I think, correct me if I'm wrong) . Here, even on a monday night, every presentation was sold out in advance, and during the credits, the crowd applauded for a while; something I've never witnessed before, for any movie. And I live in the closest country to the US in the world.
Now imagine how they look at this in the middle east.
I guess we should tell them that if they don't like it, then "Bring 'em on!" No?
Goomba, what was the reaction of the crowd after the movie?
), you have to admit the guy's extremely good at making an entertaining documentary movie. For the details, well you'll have to go see it for yourself. Don't worry: the entertainment value alone is well worth the ticket price, and as Klos said, I'm sure you'll get a few good laughs.I'll have to digest its huge number of claims for myself first, before starting a debate over any of them. Let's just say that even if only 15% of them are the actual picture, that would still be quite embarassing for Bush's administration.
There's only one thing I'd like to point out. I don't want to spoil the party here, but even after today's step in a good direction for Iraq, which you are cheering, polls still seems to split the pubic opinion in half in the US about the legitimacy of this war. This movie is currently on top of the box-office in the US (even if it is only presented in a rather small amount of theaters - 836 I think, correct me if I'm wrong) . Here, even on a monday night, every presentation was sold out in advance, and during the credits, the crowd applauded for a while; something I've never witnessed before, for any movie. And I live in the closest country to the US in the world.
Now imagine how they look at this in the middle east.
I guess we should tell them that if they don't like it, then "Bring 'em on!" No?
Goomba, what was the reaction of the crowd after the movie?
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VipFREAK
I don't see things as black and white, especially in that case... Ever had mixed feelings about someone? and isn't a good politician nowadays is someone capable of rallying the most people behind him , even if bending the truth and lying is required?
As in Bowling for Columbine, some footage and facts are presented in a way that they say what Moores want them to, some might just have been taken out of context, but others just speaks for themselves. And while some counterpoints are just skipped in the movie, in most cases we've all heard them over and over in the news in the last years.
If the guy is such a liar and his movies are completely filled with lies, I'm wondering why he isn't overwhelmed with lawsuits?
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A fat jew's opinion piece, like every other movie coming out of the states, what's the big deal?
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What did I do now?
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Made what could have been a racial slur in a post.
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- GTP_Duke
In the other thread, I wasn't trying to say you did something wrong. I really was asking you to make it clearer, because I couldn't follow your post. Your English is much better than my Croatian. I'm terrible at other languages.Seito4Counter
The way you mentioned "jew" in this thread sounds racist. If it is important that Moore is Jewish (is he?), some more explaining would help us understand why.
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I didn't realize jew was a racial slur.. Michael Moore does celebrate the values of judaism, doesn't he? Or did I just shoot a blank?
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You used it as a racial slur. "Some fat jew's..." why bring up his weight and beliefs? Is every other "documentary" made by "some fat jew"? I don't believe his beliefs came up once in this thread and it wouldn't make a difference if he was or wasn't Jewish. Or do you always go around saying, "Medium-set Buddhist Frank..."?
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I actually always do go around saying.. and yes if he were catholic, or muslim, or evangelical christian the movie would have been different.
*EDIT* (I don't like or not like Moore, he made a movie with some facts and with his opinions, and that's what he said he did so he's ok. To me the film was too dramatic but hey, its his film.)
*EDIT* (I don't like or not like Moore, he made a movie with some facts and with his opinions, and that's what he said he did so he's ok. To me the film was too dramatic but hey, its his film.)
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I don't know if he's jewish or christian, but I don't see how anything in this movie is leaning toward Judaism, Christianism or Islam. The movies shows his political opinions, it's not about religious beliefs.Seito4Counter
I want to digest the movie and do some research for myself in the first place, before getting in any debate over the validity of its content. I'm sure there's already many articles for and against it with all the details you need. All I can say for now is that it makes a lot of things to prove wrong to change the majority of viewers point of view about this.
VIPFREAK
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jpmontoya
Yes, I agree with you Jpmotoya, but I see it more along the lines of making us aware of something maybe we didn't see or think about. I certainly took things in Bowling For Columbine that way but there were other things that were so outragous I just found it funny. I hate politics so without going there I'll just say 9/11 happened and there's no denying it. The columbine incident and 9/11 are warning indications of this country (U.S.) of how we are as a people. Either way I don't think we are doing so well.
Danoff
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No they're not! Some dumb*ss kid shot up his school on his own. And some dumb*ss zealots knocked our buildings down. How does that indicate how we (US) are as a people? I think it indicates that we have some deranged people among us (which I knew before columbine). And it indicates that there are deranged people in the middle east (which I knew before 2001).
Explain exactly how we as people are at all responsible in any way for columbine or sepember 11th.
I refuse to take responsibility for regular psychopathic wakos or insane relgious psychopathic wakos.
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- GTP_Duke
Forget it, danoff. We're like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, trying to hold back the North Sea. There's only so much you can do sometimes, and I for one am tired of trying to make people see reason. Particularly when they themselves have no interest in it.
Danoff
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They're human beings. They should have interest in reasoning and want to understand. They should have some notion of responsibility, right and wrong. It is tiresome, but when I see satements like
september 11th reflects on us as a society and shows that we're not doing well...
I have to comment. I can't believe people honsetly think we were asking for it - that whatever we did was so horrific that it was justifiable that those innocent people be forced to jump from one of the tallest buildings in the world rather than be burned alive. I can't believe people would claim that I, or the media, is at fault for some arrogant kid who decides that he has the right to kill his classmates.
It's a disgusting backward cynical arrogant sentiment.
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neon_duke
I feel the same way.
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The way I see it is that it's also absurd for some to blame Marylin Manson or video games for what happened in Columbine, and to close their eyes on how easily regular psychopathic wakos have access to guns? Or ask themselves what could be the possible causes that turned kids into psychopathic wakos?(duh, I forgot about Marylin Manson musicians nicknames...)danoff
For insane relgious psychopathic wakos, I don't know... But when it suits us, or that their 'insanity' could be useful in some way, help us make a buck or two and fight other 'evil ennemies', they are very nice guys.
VIPFREAK
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danoff
I know I should take Neon duke's advice and shut up but...
I look at your comments up there and I have to wonder if you are really an "elitist" when it comes to your thinking.
Are you sure you know what responsibility, right and wrong are? All of us in the U.S. have made them selves (including me) think that we are a bubble in our own world. Your saying what we do the rest of the world doesn't know about or care?
Wake up and smell the coffee, as harsh of a comment this is so what those people died, in other countries those deaths aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to what they experience. Look at their cities. We complain when our few people died, what do you think these other countries feel when one whole town is distroyed??
So, your response would be something like what the hell are you talking about?? I'm talking about the fact that we have all this great crap, we are a "modern" world and we cry over a few deaths. Yet other countries barely have any power and they are losing so many every day to simple things like no food.
Now do you think we have the right to tell other countries what to do? An do you think they are going to be jealous about how we run our country? Hmm...
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