FC Online event? CHECK Page 3, post #52 please!

[Hun200kmh]

Calm down, jj

Here's the problem.

1) If nothing changes in the near future, each weekend we'll have more than 8 players to enter the event (if we don't, one lobby will be enough). It could even happen that we get consistent "overbooking" (more than 16 players), but THAT I can't solve without a major revision of the event itself, and a lot of work to make it run smoothly.

2) After test session #1, it became clear that my original intention (one 16 players lobby, 5 races every weekend) wasn't going to work. So, I kept the original maximum number of players per weekend (16) but changed the event to be run in two lobbies (8 players - or less - each).

3) So, if I want to have an "overall" result, how do I get it in a fair way? If I "freeze" the lobbies we can have competitive differences between them, and a win in "lobby 1" can be much harder than in "lobby 2". If both lobbies give the same points, final scores can be unfair.

4) I could solve this through a "demotions/promotions" scheme but - again - that would be time-consuming and would place on the "event's organizer" (yours truly) more responsabilities than fun in all this. Besides, it would ruin the "race this weekend if you want/can, don't race if you don't want/can't" philosophy of it all.

5) So, to find a fair overall result for each weekend, and award points accordingly, the easiest way I could come up with was something like the F1 qualifying rules in 2008. The first four races set that weekend's "8 fastest/luckiest" and the "8 slowest/unluckiest". Then they are divided in two new lobbies, and of course being in the "fastest lobby" gives you more points than being in the "slowest lobby".

6) Of course this also puts the need of some organization between the 4th and 5th races. The way I see it it will be like this, only requirement is that the host has a functional headset and that both hosts have a "back channel to communicate" (if nothing else, they'll have PSN PMs) :

1. 4th race ends, no one leaves the lobby, waiting for the host (still "In game", taking note of the final results) to return to it also.


2. (Now, between hosts, in their "back channel")


Host A - "4th race finished, overall positions are these, I'm 2nd in my group so I can keep this lobby with the first four and invite the 1st four of your lobby. What's your status?"

Host B (Situation 1): "Ok, we also finished, these are the overall positions, I'm fifth so I'll also keep the lobby open, ask the 1st four to leave and after they leave I'll invite yours 5th to 8th positions."

Host B (Situation 2): "Ok, we also finished, these are the overall positions but I'm also in the first 4 of my group. So, we need a new host for the 2nd lobby. You pick someone from your group with a headset, or shall I pick someone from my group?"

(they sort it out, and then ...

3. Hosts return to lobby, tell the other players if the lobby they're in is to remain open or is to be closed, and (if it remaisn open) who must stay, who must leave and from whom will a invite be received.



I know it all seems a bit confusing, but this Saturday, with the help of all, we'll test this out in a 2nd pre-season event. Will post about it later on.


PS - In T&L Team we are used to talk between GT5P races (and set the timing of race starts) using Skype as our "back channel". I'll ask that, for this pre-season event, one of them will be the "other lobby's" host (I'll host one lobby myself. Skype really helps to make all this host-talk simple, easy and fast.

PPS - I started writing this post a few hours ago, in reply to jjaisli. Meanwhile I had to work, leave, habve lunch, etc. and I now read all other posts after that one. So, I'll add this, about Biggles concern that only one race counts: if a fair overall score is to be achieved in a 2-lobby configuration, and I don't have a "lock" on the players entering each weekend, I have to get a "fair overall result" at the end of each weekend's races. The only way I can do it is with a FINAL race that grants points. As I said, the lobbies in the week after that one will be built based on the FINAL race lobbies of the previous week, and that is made with the purpose of allowing everyone a fair chance of getting to the FINAL "top lobby" every week.

 

[Biggles]

Meanwhile I had to work, leave, habve lunch, etc.

I thought this was your work?!

Well, I can see there's no really straightforward way to do this (& it's not going to be any easier in GT5P if the "official" events ever start there).

My only other suggestion would be to have multiple lobbies with rotating participation in each lobby in each week, so that over time, every racer meets every other racer. Each lobby scores separately (ie. there will be first, second, third etc. scoring in each lobby). As the season progresses, the score totals for each racer should fairly accurately reflect their ability relative to the other racers. At some point in the season, the racers could then be grouped in ranked lobbies according to their point totals & then there could be a race series within each ranked lobby, to decide the final individual rankings. In the end, it would be similar to what Hun is proposing, but stretched out over several events.

 

[jjaisli]

OK, so I think the light is starting to shine through. So basically, the hosts will tally the results of the first four races and the fastest group from Lobby A will face off against the fastest group from Lobby B (and vice versa for the slowest two groups).

Part of my problem is that I'm half skimming through these threads in between working when I have a few spare minutes. So sometimes I have a little trouble carrying my own thoughts through. But I'm with you!

 

[danjama]

what time saturday mate caus i work until 9pm GMT and dont get home until 10PM...

 

[Ardius]

4) I could solve this through a "demotions/promotions" scheme but - again - that would be time-consuming and would place on the "event's organizer" (yours truly) more responsabilities than fun in all this. Besides, it would ruin the "race this weekend if you want/can, don't race if you don't want/can't" philosophy of it all.

Ok, thats fair enough, I know how intensive it can get, though I don't know if I agree with it ruining the "have fun" part. See, if people don't play these games with this in mind in the first place, why on earth are they playing games?

I accept that placing higher value on races may cause some people to take it too seriously, as this happens regularly in my F1:CE championship, however, the majority definitely don't feel they have to race. Most are playing to have fun, and the points on the side are just to make it more interesting, the threat of being demoted really doesn't mean much (or at least it shouldn't).
Though, in the end, I agree that its not the best idea to bring in, so whatever, lol. I'd just like to defend the idea, no offence intended or taken.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I thought this was your work?!

Sometimes even I get confused about it. I sure like to write more about this than the many dull things I write while working

But I'm with you!

Beware, I know you have a headset, we've talked a few times in-lobby ... prepare to host a few events

what time saturday mate caus i work until 9pm GMT and dont get home until 10PM...

All events, including pre-season ones, will start Saturdays at 11 PM (GMT). That's the best I can get, to make it possible for everyone from Australia (early Sunday morning) to Eastern Europe (late Saturday night) and all people in between.

... no offence intended or taken.

Of course. And I may add that I have enormous respect for your experience with the F1:CE championships. Someday I'll buy that game and if you are still organizing championships with it I'll have a go there (even if Biggles warned me that the learning curve to get competitive is hard, as long as I don't crash every other corner or ruin other's races, I'll be in)


Please note: I'm not stubborn (sp?), and I'm not lazy also, indeed I get pleasure from promoting this, knowing that it needs work and time to get through. But the "divisions" and innerent "demotions/promotions" system just doesn't seem appealing to me. If you notice, we'll - anyway - have that each and every weekend, (what would you call the "lobbies reconfiguration" to the final race?). However, I tried to find a system that would ensure:

a) a fair final scoring for all players racing in each weekend;

b) a "lightweight" system that makes each event a championship in itself, but also, for those that intend to be present in all (or almost all) weekends, gives us a final scoring that is both fair and rewarding.

c) finally, a system where every player, even if he got last place (1 point) in a given weekend, has a fair chance to win the next (16 points), because he will start the next event in this week's "weakest" lobby, and 4 of the players taking part in it will be promoted to the "LOBBY 1" for the Final race of the following week.

Again, sorry for the phrase construction, I miss a few words that would come handy to write it all in a better way.

 

[Ardius]

Of course. And I may add that I have enormous respect for your experience with the F1:CE championships. Someday I'll buy that game and if you are still organizing championships with it I'll have a go there (even if Biggles warned me that the learning curve to get competitive is hard, as long as I don't crash every other corner or ruin other's races, I'll be in)


Please note: I'm not stubborn (sp?), and I'm not lazy also, indeed I get pleasure from promoting this, knowing that it needs work and time to get through. But the "divisions" and innerent "demotions/promotions" system just doesn't seem appealing to me. If you notice, we'll - anyway - have that each and every weekend, (what would you call the "lobbies reconfiguration" to the final race?). However, I tried to find a system that would ensure:

a) a fair final scoring for all players racing in each weekend;

b) a "lightweight" system that makes each event a championship in itself, but also, for those that intend to be present in all (or almost all) weekends, gives us a final scoring that is both fair and rewarding.

c) finally, a system where every player, even if he got last place (1 point) in a given weekend, has a fair chance to win the next (16 points), because he will start the next event in this week's "weakest" lobby, and 4 of the players taking part in it will be promoted to the "LOBBY 1" for the Final race of the following week.

Again, sorry for the phrase construction, I miss a few words that would come handy to write it all in a better way.

Heh, thanks, I didn't realise it was that widely followed. F1:CE isn't too bad to get used to, though when you have competition like fishfash, you do tend to feel a bit of a novice, lol.

I understand why you've done it the way you have and I agree with you, I was just throwing ideas around and getting an idea for where you were going with this.