FC Online Pre-Season Testing. Please respond! *RESULTS POSTED*

[Hun200kmh]

Race Results




FIRST RACE - SPA (DRY)

1st - GTP_Marchbrown
2nd - GTP_SimcoeAce
3rd - GTP_Hun
4th - GTP_Goesto11
5th - GTP_MJH
6th - GTP_ENERGIYA (DNF)
7th - jjaisli (DNF)
8th - RSRacer (DNF)
9th - GTP_PhantomR (DNF)
10th - f1fansd (DNF)
11th - Mekanaizer (DNF)

EDIT: It seems GTP_ENERGIYA and RSRacer weere "warped" to another dimension and finished their SPA race there



SECOND RACE - SILVERSTONE (DRY)

1st - GTP_SimcoeAce
2nd - GTP_ENERGIYA
3rd - GTP_RSRacer
4th - GTP_Marchbrown
5th - GTP_Graffen
6th - GTP_Goesto11
7th - jjaisli
8th - GTP_Hun
9th - GTP_MJH
10th - GTP_PhantomR (DNF)





THIRD RACE - MONTREAL (DRY)

LOBBY COLAPSED (I was in front, followed by jjaisli - I think - when suddenly got the message that all players had retired from the race and left the lobby, so I quit. Very annoying, it was my first possible win and I was about to start the last lap )

EDIT: Again, GTP_ENERGIYA and RSRacer went on in "their own lobby", while I was left alone in "mine"





FOURTH RACE - MONT TREMBLANT (DRY)

1st - GTP_SimcoeAce
2nd - GTP_Graffen
3rd - GTP_ENERGIYA
4th - GTP_Marchbrown
5th - RSRacer
6th - GTP_Goesto11
7th - GTP_Hun
8th - Mekanaizer (DNF)
9th - jjaisli (DNF)
10th - GTP_MJH (DNF)

EDIT: This time, it was jjaisli that got "warped"



FIFTH RACE - PAUL RICARD (WET)

1st - GTP_Hun
2nd - GTP_SimcoeAce
3rd - GTP_ENERGIYA
4th - GTP_Marchbrown
5th - GTP_Graffen
6th - GTP_Goesto11
7th - GTP_MJH (DNF)

EDIT: Fixed my multi-personality syndrom






Event Review​

A few thoughts:

I was out all afternoon/evening, and only got home in time to eat something quickly and then log in both on the PSN and also GTPlanet and Skype. Did it aproximately 30 minutes before the scheduled start of the event. Then I found out that my headset had decided to stop working in the worst possible day for that to happen. After a few tries with the PC settings - with no results - I quit trying and did the preparations to start the event. Open the lobby, start sending the invites. Definitely not a good start from me, I felt some pressure since the begining.

During all the event, keeping the lobby with all the players that wanted to play resulted painfully long, because of several unimportant reasons, but among them I had:
a) the fact that not all players were on my friends list (from memory: Graffen and RussRobbit), so those had to be invited separately;
b) the fact that my friends list is huge (almost 100 guys) and I had to go through it all (very slowly loading, because the game was on the background) to make sure I didn't leave no one out;
c) the fact that people kept getting disconnects and I had to understand who left the lobby and then go to the slow process of sending another invite;
d) the fact, seemingly unimportant, that from 10 players on I had to scroll down the in-lobby players list to make sure who was still in and who was left out;
e) the fact that long PSN IDs("GTP_SimcoeAce", "GTP_marchbrown", "GTP_Energiya" and a few others), kept scrolling making it a bit difficult to understand, in a glance, who were the drivers in-lobby;


So, my first conclusion is: being a responsible host in FC is unbearable in 16player lobbies. The lobby itself is unstable and the amount of care, time and work needed just to keep it all together (and, above all others, my first concern was always that everyone was in before a race start) is detrimental to the joy of racing.



Now the racing. I only had close racing for the first two laps in Spa, behind Energiya. Followed him closely and attempted to pass twice. Both times the lag became so strong I simply lost concentration, didn't know where to go and lost momentum, and time. After that I didn't even do a good race and fell behind Biggles.

In Silverstone I went off right after the start (in the straight) because when the race started I was still finishing my notes about race 1. I came close to MJH several times but, even if he didn't lag much, my mind wasn't really there, so after many more mistakes I settled for last of the ones that didn't get a disconnect. MJH's mistake in the last lap allowed me to pass him, and there I ended my second race, 40 seconds behind the guy in front of me (jjaisli, according to my "after the race" notes), and very frustrated with myself.

Montreal was also frustrating, but even so my best race up to that point. Placed 2nd behind MJH at the start, when he went off in turn 1 I got the lead and soon build a gap of 5 to 7 seconds between me and 2nd place (jjaisli, I think). But, as you read above, the lobby collapsed in the last lap.

In Mont Tremblant I was a mess. enough said.

In Paul Ricard (wet) things got better. After so many disconnects from so many, some players just gave up on the event and the race started with just 7 players (6 really, because MJH had keft, but forgot to leave the lobby, so his car entered the race but stopped and got disqualified). I followed ENERGIYA and Graffen until I managed to pass them both and after that it was just a question of smooth driving until the chequered flag.

So, my second conclusion is: FC doesn't work properly with more than 8 cars in the lobby, and that will have to be the absolute limit for the coming 2009 event.

I still have to figure out the "headsets" issue. I know for a fact they work, I had many pleasant races using it and talking to other players (like Flash48, holy-sword and someone else whose PSN ID I can't remember now), but tonight I had no chance to "know better".

Since I guess we'll have many more than 8 players applying for that event, I really have to re-think it in a way that each and every race-weekend will have more than one lobby working. I'm used to that in the T&L events (Bond and Star Wars), but those were "one-night" events, not some kind of championship (and "some kind of championship" is what - so far - I have in mind for the "FC Online Event").

I'll have to think about it, with of course the help of you all. Thank you again for tonight, sorry for all the waiting, disconnects, late invites ... I just couldn't do better with what I had available.

Anyway ... as the Governor of California would say ... "I'll be back" !

 

[Zathra5_]

Nice write up. You might consider posting that up at the Eutechnyx. It might help them a lot with the new game (you can always hope it will help with FC but I doubt it).

And I did win Montreal. Really I did. Its likely the only win I'll get for a while

 

[Biggles]

Thanks for the effort you put in Hun. My brain was fried just trying to understand what was going on, so I can imagine what is was like for you trying to organize it!

IMO the first objective is to promote some good, close racing. The overall "results" are less important to me. I think we have to be realistic about what works within the limitations of this game. It's clear that it's not possible to have a large grid, certainly not larger than 8, & personally, I think grids of 4 well-matched drivers would produce the best races - each pool of 4 can then expect to have good (relatively) lag-free races. We could then arrange a regular schedule of promotion & demotion from one pool to another to keep things interesting & flexible.

I think this system (kind of like a "tennis ladder") would work better than an overall scoring system, as it would also allow new drivers to join, who would be able to find a place in the pool system & work their way up through the rankings. It would also be fairer for the less experienced drivers who could work their way up as their skills improve, rather than falling behind from the start in a race-by-race scoring system.

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

There is one thing about the results & i believe RCRacer will back me up on this.

The first race at SPA RSRacer & myself were the only 2 car running when we finnished the race & the same thing happened at MONTREAL.

So i believe that at your end HUN, you saw all of the DNF drivers left the race & on RSRacer & my end all off you guys left the race except RSRacer & i , so i dont know what is happening.

----------------------

BTW HUN, how can you finnish Paul ricard in 1st & 7th, unless sameone crashed into your car splitting it in two. So good job driving the F430 split challenge car to reach 1st & 7th.

 

[Graffen]

You did hell of agood job Mario,not easy at first time,but we learn a lot by have this test Race Night and it was very fun.

 

[fair_play_pleas]

Hi mates, sorry but i missed the pre-season test, because there was a not planed party going on yesterday evening and i just came home(still drunken like hell).Btw Mario, I extra bought a new bluetooth headset yesterday
I hope you had a lot of fun and i´m looking forward to race you soon guys

 

[jjaisli]

Hun,

A great write up and and a pretty accurate assessment of how things went down. Even before your detailed analysis, I was well aware of how much work it would be for you to organize the event, set up the room, send out the invitations and of course write down the positions and scores after each race. That the lobbies kept collapsing and forcing you to re-invite everybody must have made this a very hectic and frustrating experience for you. So I just wanted to say again how much we all appreciate it. And despite being sick as a dog, I wanted to let you know how much fun I had

I agree with Zathra5--you might want to consider reposting this, or an edited version, on the Eutechnyx forum. I'm sure they're already well aware of the fact that 16 player lobbies are an unworkable idea at present in Ferrari Challenge but putting this out there for review might help them avoid certain mistakes/promises in Supercar Challenge.

Just a few quick comments:

- At Mount Tremblant I started the race in first and manage to hold the position and gap until the final tight hairpin on lap 1 where I put two wheels on the grass and overshot the braking zone. I saw SimcoeAce go by and was scared to get back on track because I couldn't see who else was coming. One more car got by and I followed them through Conner Corner in 3rd position and right before the Esses is where the pop-up messages started appearing and everybody was getting kicked out of the lobby. The next thing I saw the two cars in front of me both drive off the track in opposite directions--one to the left and one to the right. I couldn't figure out what was happening. And before I could put it together they both disappeared and then I was the only car on the track. So I know at the point this happened I was running in 3rd and I'm guessing even though it looked like I was the only car on track it must have still listed my car in the lobby because you show me down in 9th. Very strange.

- At Montreal I was following Hun (1-2) for the most of the race. (he was pulling away at 0.5-0.8 per lap and I was doing all I could and just couldn't keep up--some of you guys are clearly much faster). But at one point as I was running up the back straight (right after the hairpin) I could see the name tags coming down into the braking zone on the other side of the wall. Once I could see GTP_ENERGIYA's car 'hopping' up and down from behind the wall. At first I thought he was about to summersault over the wall (a la Robert Kubica) but then I realized his car was just 'hopping'. But it looked pretty funny.

- The only real close racing I had was at Silverstone (6/7 position) and there was the usual minimal lag and stutter but no worse than there would be with just a two car lobby. So I guess with 8-10 cars it doesn't necessarily make the lag any worse unless all the cars are running nose to tail.

But aside from the obvious problem of collapsing lobbies, I had a great time. I guess it would make sense to limit the lobbies to 8.

 

[jjaisli]

...The most fun racing was on Silverstone with jjaisli with several position changes. Unfortunately the changes were usually due to a mistake from one of us...

LOL! Shhhh! You don't have to tell everybody.

Seriously though--great fun. I think we're pretty closely matched, although maybe not for the most impressive of reasons. I'll send you a friend request the next time I'm on-line.

 

[GT-RS]

There is one thing about the results & i believe RSRacer will back me up on this.

The first race at SPA RSRacer & myself were the only 2 car running when we finnished the race & the same thing happened at MONTREAL.

So i believe that at your end HUN, you saw all of the DNF drivers left the race & on RSRacer & my end all off you guys left the race except RSRacer & i , so i dont know what is happening.

Yep thats exactly what i saw my end also Energiya. Our internet conections must like each other or something! Strange as we are probably the two people furthest apart!!

Big respect to Hun who appears he was so stressed it split him in two for the Ricard race! lol.
Seriously though many thanks for the time and effort.

My driving was pretty shocking through out due to lack of sleep over the past week so apologies to anyone i shunted off track etc....

 

[Hun200kmh]

Thank you all for your kind words. I fixed my multi-personality syndrom and edited infos on Spa, Mont Tremblant and Montreal.

two other review notes:

1 - It seems that the game, when it overloads, splits players in different races. This happened, it seems, at Spa, Mont Tremblant and Montreal.

2 - Yesterday, I sent a PM message to the "Forum Administrator" (I guess he is ferraripro) in the eutechnyx forums, telling about the "test" we would be conducting here last night. Didn't get a reply, but I'm sure he read it because I see he already posted in those forums today. Maybe the lack of reply is because I started my PM saying something like I'm not sure if you still care much about FC, but ... (not very diplomatic, I know). Besides, I didn't apply for their beta-testing and, in fact, I'm a bit sour about all this "new racing game" issue. I think they are following a very wrong path in all this, but it's their business, who am I to discuss it.

Anyway, in the PM he has the link to this thread, if he's interested he can read it. I see no point in showing all this to the forum members there, with a few exceptions almost all of them are hyped about SCC and beta-testing it.

 

[jjaisli]

... I sent a PM message to the "Forum Administrator" (I guess he is ferraripro) in the eutechnyx forums, telling about the "test" we would be conducting here last night. Didn't get a reply, but I'm sure he read it because I see he already posted in those forums today. Maybe the lack of reply is because I started my PM saying something like I'm not sure if you still care much about FC, but ... (not very diplomatic, I know). Besides, I didn't apply for their beta-testing and, in fact, I'm a bit sour about all this "new racing game" issue. I think they are following a very wrong path in all this, but it's their business, who am I to discuss it.

Anyway, in the PM he has the link to this thread, if he's interested he can read it. I see no point in showing all this to the forum members there, with a few exceptions almost all of them are hyped about SCC and beta-testing it.

If you don't mind, I would like to pursue this on the Eutechnyx forum in an open post. While I feel you're probably correct and Eutechnyx, under System 3's direction, is no longer actively pursuing updates and fixes for Ferrari Challenge, we can still hope that they may be able to make some minor tweaks that may make a big difference to the playability. And the more we draw attention to it, the more likely they are to address it.

They clearly state that their new title will be able to host 16 player lobbies. That Supercar Challenge is being released so close on the heels of Ferrari Challenge, leads to the assumption that it relies heavily on the FC gaming engine. Indeed it looks very similar. So one can assume that either:
- they've made a breakthrough and there are big under the skin changes in the way on-line races are handled. In which case there's no real hope of an update to FC.
- some minor tweaking has resulting in big gains and improvements in which case they may be able to apply the changes to FC with little effort.
- they're full of baloney (again) and Supercar Challenge has no more hope of hosting playable 16 player races than Ferrari Challenge does.

I'm kind of annoyed that they've changed direction as well and I don't want to see FC:TP left behind, but at the same time I do understand the financial realities involved. But I also feel the more we push and the more we offer from our side in a helpful and productive way, the more we'll all benefit. It certainly can't hurt.

 

[pino-r]

hi everybody,
are sorry not to have been present ,in these days I have had problems of various kind (unfortunately)
then competitions cannot be made with more' of 8 players?
we hope to find a way of able to compete then
I have an earphone but I don't speak English
I use a translator for pc (she knows me that I have to learn...)

compliments for the beautiful organization Hun:tup:we hope to be able to compete together everybody (even if I am slow... too much slow... )

ciao ciao

 

[Hun200kmh]

@jjaisli: of course you can take all these thoughts and feedback to the eutechnyx forum, I just didn't do it because I really think they don't care much about it.

@pino-r: We'll have other oportunities 👍

 

[Marchbrown]

My driving was pretty shocking through out due to lack of sleep over the past week so apologies to anyone i shunted off track etc....

We cant all be in our best shape all the time mate. I clearly wasnt last night. S**t happends. BUT - remember to stop and wait for the other guy involved if you do hit anybody. I think were doing standard ORL rules.

 

[Mekanaizer]

I had major issues with my headset (Jabra BT135). I couldn't connect to the lobby. Because once I got in I was losing the host. Then tried without the headset on and I got connection. Then at the midle of that race I turned on the headset just to check if true. And once the headset was on 3 seconds later I lost the connection.

So for me I guess 16p only without headset.

 

[Biggles]

I didn't have disconnection issues with my Nokia BT headset, but I was only hearing stuff sporadically. Are people having more success with the "official" PS3 BT headset or USB headsets?

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

I didn't have disconnection issues with my Nokia BT headset, but I was only hearing stuff sporadically. Are people having more success with the "official" PS3 BT headset or USB headsets?

I was using a sony bluetooth headset & only heard 1 person.

 

[jjaisli]

I was using a Motorolla bluetooth headset. It ranged from clear to muffled mumbling.

 

[Zathra5_]

I was using some sort of Jabra headset. I was able to talk to Marchbrown at first. I had a hard time hearing people later. I did not disconnect once except if you consider the time at Villeneuve when Matt and I apparently split off from everyone else but still finished the race.

 

[GT-RS]

We cant all be in our best shape all the time mate. I clearly wasnt last night. S**t happends. BUT - remember to stop and wait for the other guy involved if you do hit anybody. I think were doing standard ORL rules.

I will always stop and let someone past if I think its totally my fault that they have gone off but we will all encouter people losing control in front of us or cars stopped dead on track that we may hit.

 

[Lofasz]

Hey guys. Looks like you guys have a have gotten a good little group together. I'm currently enjoying an online championship playing F1CE, but would enjoy one in FC as well. I just got the game a few days ago, but it already exceeds my expectations. Hopefully I can get more competitive in the next few days, and be able to do some laps with you guys, sometime soon. Let me know, if you guys need any grid spots filled, before your season starts.

Thanks,
Lofasz

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

Hey guys. Looks like you guys have a have gotten a good little group together. I'm currently enjoying an online championship playing F1CE, but would enjoy one in FC as well. I just got the game a few days ago, but it already exceeds my expectations. Hopefully I can get more competitive in the next few days, and be able to do some laps with you guys, sometime soon. Let me know, if you guys need any grid spots filled, before your season starts.

Thanks,
Lofasz

Hi Lofasz & welcome to the group. I will send you 3 things.

1 - PSN friend request
2 - Friend request from my GTPlanet friends list
3 - Sent you an invite to join FERRARI CHALLENGE Drivers Association sociol group

 

[jjaisli]

Just a couple of thoughts:

- Talking about the headsets, does anybody suspect that they may be responsible for the slipped connections? Would it be worth it to try one more test with a full lobby and nobody (expect maybe the host) wears a headset to see if it makes a difference?

- Host connection: I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your connection Hun, but I wonder if it's worth it to also try using a different host. (Note, I'm not actually volunteering--just saying it.

- Players arriving in the lobby or leaving the lobby after the game is in progress. It seemed to me that once one person left the lobby while the race was in progress, it caused a cascading effect. Maybe we can also try that the race will only start if all people invited are already in the lobby and ready. And if you lose connection to the host and still find yourself (alone) on the track than just complete the race. As in my above example at Mont Tremblant, I found myself the only car on the track and running in 3rd. I continued for 1/2 a lap and then just gave up. But somehow the lobby was still functioning.

I don't want to make everybody crazy and turn this into a huge beta test session for what is essentially a 'dead' product. But if there's a clear cause I'd like to try and find it and work around it because I'd rather race in a full lobby. Just throwing it out there...

 

[Hun200kmh]

- Talking about the headsets, does anybody suspect that they may be responsible for the slipped connections? Would it be worth it to try one more test with a full lobby and nobody (expect maybe the host) wears a headset to see if it makes a difference?

FC doesn't provide us in-lobby text chat (TRD3 anyone?) and I know GT-only players are used to a "silent" way of playing (although in GT, because there's no lobby system, people have set time-schedules that usually allow for some PM sending-activities between races). Can you imagine a host that can speak but can't listen, and between races receives many PMs from all other players in the lobby? Poor host, he'll be busy all the time.

- Host connection: I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your connection Hun, but I wonder if it's worth it to also try using a different host. (Note, I'm not actually volunteering--just saying it.

Don't worry, I don't get offense by your vile attack on my ... "internet connection" but of course you are right, the quality of a host's connection can be important. However, and from my previous experience both in TRD3 (where I usually hosted one full lobby every night, when I played that game) and in GT (where often the game choses me to be the host), I think I have a fairly good connection. Anyway, I agree we should try others, because next time I want someone else to try the "amazing" experience I had

- Players arriving in the lobby or leaving the lobby after the game is in progress. It seemed to me that once one person left the lobby while the race was in progress, it caused a cascading effect. Maybe we can also try that the race will only start if all people invited are already in the lobby and ready. And if you lose connection to the host and still find yourself (alone) on the track than just complete the race. As in my above example at Mont Tremblant, I found myself the only car on the track and running in 3rd. I continued for 1/2 a lap and then just gave up. But somehow the lobby was still functioning.

Yes, the "cascading" effect was noticeable. but I don't think ever anyone left the race or the lobby voluntarily. About people entering the lobby after the race started, I only remember that happening with Mekanaizer (because when he lost connection he looged off also from PSN, not only from the race and lobby). However, I don't recall any immediate cascading effect from that.

I don't want to make everybody crazy and turn this into a huge beta test session for what is essentially a 'dead' product. But if there's a clear cause I'd like to try and find it and work around it because I'd rather race in a full lobby. Just throwing it out there...

I think we have to get over another "full 16 lobby" attempt, bearing in mind that all the problems we had happened in lobbies that had, at the most, 12 players. So, what I'd like to do is to focus on a serious shot at "fully filled" 8 player lobbies, with headsets on.

I'm trying to think now about several things that need to be sorted out in order to build up on a "multi-lobby" event. Communication between players in each lobby and communication between the hosts of the different lobbies is my main concern. Also, how to set rules and classifications to make it interesting for everybody,, from start to finish (multi-player lobbies tend to follow a path of elimination, but I really want ALL players to be able to take part in the full event, not being eliminated from the later stages).

Anyway, if you want to conduct another attempt to a 16 player lobby, I'll be ready to take part in it.

 

[jjaisli]

LOL! Open mouth, insert foot! Yeah, well, I'd like to try and figure out what happened, naturally. But as I said, I don't want to make everybody crazy and it shouldn't be up to us to 'beta test' a product which is unlikely to receive any further development. I posted in the Eutechnyx forums. If they respond openly or by PM and ask us to test certain criteria or under specific conditions because they have a good idea of why it's happening than I'm certainly willing to test/host, whatever. But I'm not willing to put myself and everybody else here though random testing just 'grasping at straws' if in the end, Eutechnyx does nothing with the information. I just hope when Supercar Challenge comes out the online experience works as advertised.

So yeah, let's wait and see if/how they respond. And I agree, 8 people per lobby or less is the way to go.



One thing is clear to me though, whether or not we use the headsets, I need to hook up a keyboard to the PS3. I've only had mine since mid October so I'm still a total noob and I'm trying to write messages with the Sixaxis. I could never text worth a darn. We have ten fingers for a reason.

 

[Biggles]

In my time online with Hun & others I've never noticed any obvious difference in what happens depending on who the host is. It seems completely random, but I can't be sure. The problem is, you never know if what you're experiencing is the same as what everyone else is experiencing!

My headset seems to work OK with 2 or 3 players in a lobby - did not work well with our big lobbies.

 

[Biggles]

I will always stop and let someone past if I think its totally my fault that they have gone off but we will all encouter people losing control in front of us or cars stopped dead on track that we may hit.

I would just like to say that in dozens of very close, intense races with RSRacer we've had practically no collisions. That's because we are very closely matched & each driver knows what to expect from the other driver going into a corner. When there is a very wide difference in the experience of the drivers, there are more likely to be "incidents" (just like in GT5P) because the less experienced drivers will brake unexpectedly early & make other unanticipated "maneuvers". With a well-matched grid I think we will see almost no contact problems...

 

[Mekanaizer]

Yes, the "cascading" effect was noticeable. but I don't think ever anyone left the race or the lobby voluntarily. About people entering the lobby after the race started, I only remember that happening with Mekanaizer (because when he lost connection he looged off also from PSN, not only from the race and lobby). However, I don't recall any immediate cascading effect from that.

Yes, but before that I had the Host error message.
FC Host error message then PSN disconnection.
And for me the problem was the Headset got it proven during this test:

"I had major issues with my headset (Jabra BT135). I couldn't connect to the lobby. Because once I got in I was losing the host. Then tried without the headset on and I got connection. Then at the midle of that race I turned on the headset just to check if true. And once the headset was on 3 seconds later I lost the connection."

So for me I guess 16p only without headset, if possible, thou.

 

[Biggles]

16 people (or even 8 people) with headsets, even if they actually worked, would seem to be a bit unworkable for getting things organized. I think maybe the online chat system we had for GT5P would work better, also allowing us to communicate between lobbies - if we end up, as seems likely, with multiple lobbies.

 

[GT-RS]

I would just like to say that in dozens of very close, intense races with RSRacer we've had practically no collisions. That's because we are very closely matched & each driver knows what to expect from the other driver going into a corner. When there is a very wide difference in the experience of the drivers, there are more likely to be "incidents" (just like in GT5P) because the less experienced drivers will brake unexpectedly early & make other unanticipated "maneuvers". With a well-matched grid I think we will see almost no contact problems...

Thanks for that 👍
Its so true what you say about equally matched/experienced drivers. It can be very hard following someone who is braking eratically, taking wrong lines through corners etc....