Few of my friends play anymore.

[cleanLX]

@Voodoovaj you hit the nail on the head regarding tuning.
Stick with me.
Anyone that is truly into automobile racing, is also interested in vehicle dynamics... IMO the rest are ... borderline, or possibly full on gamers.
If you are not interested in "what" makes a car fast/consistent... then you are not truly interested in performance automobiles, and therefor you are not a fan of racing, you are a fan of gaming.
I'm all for locking down power, weight... and begrudgingly aero.
After that... well, that is exactly what racing is about... dialing in the car.
What race have you ever viewed on the TV where the major topic of discussion was "not" getting the car dialed in?
oh...
People don't want to learn, or, spend the time to dial in a car... guess what? Gamer. You are racing a car.
These are people that want a "fair" race... fair based on what? Your amount of free time to learn how to cope with a junky car?
Racing is as much... actually, more, about the engineers than it is the drivers.
Not a race team on the planet that doesn't test, run sim's, tweak the vehicle.

Enough of that...

So, by eliminating tuning what has PD done?
They have essentially told all the hard core automotive enthusiasts "you don't matter".
And rather said...
You don't need a single IQ point with regard to the actual devise you are racing, we are just making a game out of this.

then, there is:
the penalty system.
the lack of tracks.
the sprint races.
the boring pit mid race deal.

I've not played online... ok, there's another peeve.
Go to my stats, and it'll tell you I've been online.
LOL!
Of course,... you have to be to save your game... stat's manipulation?
I have not been in sport mode in nearly 2 months... and no withdraw symptoms here.

 

[superwally]

@Voodoovaj you hit the nail on the head regarding tuning.
Stick with me.
Anyone that is truly into automobile racing, is also interested in vehicle dynamics... IMO the rest are ... borderline, or possibly full on gamers.
If you are not interested in "what" makes a car fast/consistent... then you are not truly interested in performance automobiles, and therefor you are not a fan of racing, you are a fan of gaming.
I'm all for locking down power, weight... and begrudgingly aero.
After that... well, that is exactly what racing is about... dialing in the car.
What race have you ever viewed on the TV where the major topic of discussion was "not" getting the car dialed in?
oh...
People don't want to learn, or, spend the time to dial in a car... guess what? Gamer. You are racing a car.
These are people that want a "fair" race... fair based on what? Your amount of free time to learn how to cope with a junky car?
Racing is as much... actually, more, about the engineers than it is the drivers.
Not a race team on the planet that doesn't test, run sim's, tweak the vehicle.

Enough of that...

So, by eliminating tuning what has PD done?
They have essentially told all the hard core automotive enthusiasts "you don't matter".
And rather said...
You don't need a single IQ point with regard to the actual devise you are racing, we are just making a game out of this.

then, there is:
the penalty system.
the lack of tracks.
the sprint races.
the boring pit mid race deal.

I've not played online... ok, there's another peeve.
Go to my stats, and it'll tell you I've been online.
LOL!
Of course,... you have to be to save your game... stat's manipulation?
I have not been in sport mode in nearly 2 months... and no withdraw symptoms here.

No. I mean, just completely, totally, utterly no. Your post reads like drunk rant or child's tantrum, it's narrow-minded and borderline delusional.

To call someone a gamer because they want to master the car as-delivered, and race it against others? That's a RACER. That's racing, to get to the finish line first. Doesn't matter if it's a footrace or the Monaco GP, no racer, no race.

In a car, the racer drives. Advantages can be given the driver by tuning and engineering. But those guys sit on the sidelines when the stands are full. The announcer talks about what driver is in the lead, not who adjusted the camber on the suspension. Your post makes it hard to believe you have ever been to a race.

Driving is an art, that's why people watch it. Engineering, testing, and tuning are nice, but pretty boring on TV.

I could argue the opposite-you are the gamer because you need to tune cars to be fast, and cannot adapt your driving. Maybe Sport Mode bothers you because there is no way your mastery of tuning can give you the advantage over more skilled drivers on the track like it used to. That has to hurt. After reading some of the other posts in this thread, it seems you have found the right place to come cry about it.

Carry on!

 

[TonyJZX]

I'm always in two minds about that as you can see that both Forza M and Forza H have a pretty detailed parts upgrade system but it doesnt seem like it adds the value that you would expect.

Air filters flywheels pistons injectors manifolds exhaust cams anti roll bars brakes diffs roll cage gearboxes etc... I feel that its a legacy thing at this point that's always been there so they keep it.

Especially in Forza Horizon, what's it there for?

Of course GTS is more hard edged however I feel that they made a decision that this game isnt JUST for the mechanics and the gearhead enthusiasts like many of us.

 

[cleanLX]

For sake of discussion...

No. I mean, just completely, totally, utterly no. Your post reads like drunk rant or child's tantrum, it's narrow-minded and borderline delusional.

Fair enough... in re-reading it this morning... yep, rant.

To call someone a gamer because they want to master the car as-delivered, and race it against others? That's a RACER. That's racing, to get to the finish line first. Doesn't matter if it's a footrace or the Monaco GP, no racer, no race.

In a car, the racer drives. Advantages can be given the driver by tuning and engineering. But those guys sit on the sidelines when the stands are full. The announcer talks about what driver is in the lead, not who adjusted the camber on the suspension. Your post makes it hard to believe you have ever been to a race.

Been to plenty of races, done some racing myself, was asked to campaign a car, and have worked on a pit crew (ok only once for the crew part).
Sure the engineers on on the sidelines during the race, I'm not saying we suspend sport mode races to make tuning revisions, I'm saying you've tuned them during your practice and qualifying. And, you really think the engineers are doing nothing during the race? Who do you think sets air pressures, dials wing adjustments, studies the opposition to determine strategy.

Driving is an art, that's why people watch it. Engineering, testing, and tuning are nice, but pretty boring on TV.

Yep, the driver gets the spotlight, but racing is a team effort.
To make a point... if you actually watch (or have ever participated in) testing, practice, qualifying, you will hear very little about the driver, and rather a lot regarding engineers, setup, strategy... When I raced, about 3/4 of my trips to the track were for testing.
Lets say...
Put Lewis Hamilton in a Haas, or Williams, or McLearn... then tell me engineering isn't part of racing.
Spec cars example...
Put Kyle Bush in the "Front Row Motorsports Car", and tell me engineering isn't part of racing.

Engineering, testing, and tuning are nice, but pretty boring on TV.

That is your opinion, and it is opposite mine.

I could argue the opposite-you are the gamer because you need to tune cars to be fast, and cannot adapt your driving. Maybe Sport Mode bothers you because there is no way your mastery of tuning can give you the advantage over more skilled drivers on the track like it used to. That has to hurt. After reading some of the other posts in this thread, it seems you have found the right place to come cry about it.
Carry on!

Wow, did not expect it to get personal.
Never raced online prior GTSport so cannot comment on past success/failures.
It's not about "the fastest" car for me, it's about dialing the car in. We all pick cars that suit our style (some pick the meta car...) I would love to race the Gr.3 458 but don't have the time to practice mastering it... but simple diff and bar changes make the car rather nice. Doesn't make it faster, simply makes it predictable.
I will not race the Jag because of the understeer... easily fixed again without touching power/weight/aero/gearing... simple spring bar revisions and it's good to go...

Didn't mean to offend you with my previous post, and hope to have not done so with this one.

 

[_ApexPredator]

These are people that want a "fair" race... fair based on what? Your amount of free time to learn how to cope with a junky car?

Fair based on the whole field driving the same "junky" car - spare time has nothing to do with it, if anything that's more unfair, isn't it?
Will the next post be: "Limit Sport Mode playtime to 1hr per day to make it fair for people with other commitments!"?

Racing is as much... actually, more, about the engineers than it is the drivers.

I know what you mean, but most of us at home don't have pit crews & race engineers, so in the interest of fairness & parity it makes perfect sense to stick everyone in the same car (tuning wise), doesn't it?

Not a race team on the planet that doesn't test, run sim's, tweak the vehicle.

Yes.
This is a game though :S and there's nothing to stop you tuning anyway, you can forge that close relationship between man & machine, you just can't bring it into Sport Mode where the aim is to match driver Vs driver, not transmission engineer Vs geometry guru.

 

[cleanLX]

In hindsight, and upon reflection, and the post by @ApexPredator I guess we just have to accept it.
I do "get it"... but I also have a great appreciation for the "setup".

 

[GT_Alex74]

Well, obviously the content doesn't really allow you to open "random" lobbies all the time anymore. You have to plan some events to keep it fun and balanced - one make races, picking a limited selection of cars with similar lap times, building a homemade BoP.... Each month with my friends, we're brainstorming and filling the calendar with thematic events. We still manage to attract new people on our forum and sometimes have full lobbies racing street cars on street tyres.

 

[Rinsky]

Well, obviously the content doesn't really allow you to open "random" lobbies all the time anymore. You have to plan some events to keep it fun and balanced - one make races, picking a limited selection of cars with similar lap times, building a homemade BoP.... Each month with my friends, we're brainstorming and filling the calendar with thematic events. We still manage to attract new people on our forum and sometimes have full lobbies racing street cars on street tyres.

Your exactly right. This is the only way right now to get almost any kind of good N-Class racing going on.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, obviously the content doesn't really allow you to open "random" lobbies all the time anymore. You have to plan some events to keep it fun and balanced - one make races, picking a limited selection of cars with similar lap times, building a homemade BoP.... Each month with my friends, we're brainstorming and filling the calendar with thematic events. We still manage to attract new people on our forum and sometimes have full lobbies racing street cars on street tyres.

You forgot to add "bar anyone who is not a friend" because, if you don't, someone will enter and use whatever car fits the server regulations, thereby upsetting any agreement made between you and your friends. It's a little worse than the PP system policing.

Fair based on the whole field driving the same "junky" car - spare time has nothing to do with it, if anything that's more unfair, isn't it?
Will the next post be: "Limit Sport Mode playtime to 1hr per day to make it fair for people with other commitments!"?

Something like half of the cars in any group are seldomly used because the stock set up doesn't work on them. If all the cars had been setup properly prior to release, then I could see your point, but PD has stayed the course on slapping the same setup on all cars.

I know what you mean, but most of us at home don't have pit crews & race engineers, so in the interest of fairness & parity it makes perfect sense to stick everyone in the same car (tuning wise), doesn't it?

Well, no, because some cars work just fine with the base settings and some cars completely do not. The GR3 458 is a great example. Can it be fast on some courses in the hands of a careful driver? Yes. Is it a handful with the base settings? Oh Yes. Does it become a car that can hold it's own with the GR3 regulars once you fix the rear end issues? Yes again.

Yes.
This is a game though :S and there's nothing to stop you tuning anyway, you can forge that close relationship between man & machine, you just can't bring it into Sport Mode where the aim is to match driver Vs driver, not transmission engineer Vs geometry guru.

Isn't it? Then why is there ever the option to choose anything other than a single model of car? We are already forum users, so simply go to the tuning forum and apply the tune that works best. Plenty of users are more interested in seeing their tune applied to winning cars rather than be the winner themselves.

As a motoGP fan, I see this "driver" argument differently maybe because when a rider gets put on a different bike with a different crew, his performance alters wildly. Jorge Lorenzo is the best current example. He is a multiple world champion and ever present podium contender on the Yamaha. He switch to Ducati last year and he is now dismal. This movement doesn't happen with the same impact in racing, but it does happen.

I agree with @cleanLX that the tuning is just as much part of the sport as the driving. You can't drive a bad tune. Again, on almost every sport bike, you can adjust the suspension and making those adjustments happens to every rider who takes their bike to the track on a regular basis. Your weight alone can alter the way the bike handles, so an adjust needs to be made to suit the rider.

And let's be real, there is no professional level race in the world where a practice isn't held before qualifying. That practice is to allow the team to get the car set up for the track. Sure, the televised part is the race, but the tuning is part of it.

And not to digress into a discussion on the merits of tuning, but the grossly diminished focus on tuning has definitely been a contributing factor to this post. We no longer have as many open lobbies to test our tunes because there is ultimately no reason to have them. That kills the camaraderie.

 

[mthomas_95]

Does it become a car that can hold it's own with the GR3 regulars once you fix the rear end issues? Yes again.

I've won a number of top split FIA races in the Ferrari Gr3. It's definitely competitive even with the rear end instability, just have to adapt like every racing driver in the world has to.

You can't drive a bad tune

Some people can't, but maybe that's because they've got too accustomed in the past to changing the setup to their own preferences rather than being adaptable. The best guys can jump into any car and get it close to it's maximum potential straight away, and there are only a small handful of cars that are genuinely uncompetitive in the Gr classes.

 

[_ApexPredator]

We no longer have as many open lobbies to test our tunes because there is ultimately no reason to have them.

💡

 

[cleanLX]

Since @Voodoovaj is not letting this die, I'll play some more too.

Mr. Apex, for discussion, not trying to pick a figh or have one of us be right/wrong...
I appreciate your ahem, calm thoughts this far, and promise to steer away from rant mode here on out

Will the next post be: "Limit Sport Mode playtime to 1hr per day to make it fair for people with other commitments!"?

Oh common now... you must know I've already posed that as a real question in several threads...
You're just trying to get me into rant mode again .
In all seriousness... F1 has resorted to limiting vehicle activity across the field... think they are on to something?
I do.

you can forge that close relationship between man & machine, you just can't bring it into Sport Mode where the aim is to match driver Vs driver, not transmission engineer Vs geometry guru.

When the game first came out I did just that... only to realize that it's 100% pointless, as, the penultimate challenge of the game is racing other humans, where there is no tuning... so, developing a close relationship with a good machine is simply a waste of otherwise relevant practice in a BoP fixed setting car.
As such, I've given up on tuning... and that was one of the things I enjoyed most in previous games.
Since PD has made tuning absolutely pointless... they've pulled half the fun out for me, and, I'm betting a lot of others.

Chassis tuning is not going to make me a Dr.A driver... much less A+... and certainly not going to get me near the top 25.
I'm betting tuning will not make me a super man at B... but it sure would open up a host of vehicles to "race" online with.
Reason the 991 is so popular is the stock setup works for that car...
Imagine fixing the diff in the Gr.3 Aston, as that's all it needs, bam, instant competitor to the 991.
Adjust spring rate, roll bars and diff in the Gr.3 458 and, again, instant nice car.
Ditto for the Jag.
Neither needs ride height, castor or camber adjusted to make them work... aka no geo changes that effect tire wear, aero or center of gravity.
Gr.3 Caymen... change the rear diff gear ratio... nothing else... instantly a contender.

Then consider, there is no tuning, but an assortment of aids are available. Sure, it's a decision we get to make, but... if it's really about driver V driver... what the heck are aides doing?
If it's really about driver V driver, then aids should be fixed as well.
Aids are a simple solution to tuning, that, well, for me... arg.

So, for the car enthusiast, we get to grab the base car and do nothing...
Yawn.

Yes, I love the online racing... even enjoy a lot of the campaign mode... but the other 50% of the game this car nut enjoys has been made pointless, obsolete, a waste of time... gone.

 

[phil_75]

You guys come across as a bunch of gamers rather than racers. if you like to race, this game is brilliant and never gets boring, ever .. .because there's always the next race.

It is in dire need of more real tracks, namely Spa and Road America for starters, tracks with passing zones and proper layouts.

I love the game more now than i did 7 months ago
Sport Mode and rankings is the best thing to have happened in GT but unfortunately it seems there are many people who don't like change or own the game but haven't even tried Sport Mode which is a travesty.

I would hate to see GT7 go back to single player and just online lobbies with no ranking.

 

[seslab]

F1 has resorted to limiting vehicle activity across the field

This needs to be approved and to be honest, I would be surprised if that happen. That's the most anti-F1 rule possible. I follow F1 actively since 24 years. Since then a huge amount of proportions have been made. But only very few have found the way to reality.

Setting a car perfectly is also an art just like driving is. Real life pilots have not only to know how to drive but also how to set up the car, it's part of their job just like a cook has to know how to keep his kitchen clean and his knifes sharp, it simply part of the game. Specially in F1, because you mentioned it, the drivers have to know quite much of the engineering in their cars, some are even excellent at it, giving them a non negligible advantage.

Sim racing isn't real life. That's the great part of sim racing, everyone will find its pleasure, for the driving skills fanatics as for the hobby chief mechanics. In my case I'm kinda both of them, that's why I can understand both of you. Both need to be skilled, just in a different way.

The driving freak will find his pleasure in sport mode or lobbys where settings are disabled. The hobby engineer in lobbys with friends spending hours on the same track testing and exchanging settings, like I use to do sometimes.

After all we all share the same passion, for some on a different way. As mentioned above, everyone will find its pleasure. Lets just have fun.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I love the game more now than i did 7 months ago
Sport Mode and rankings is the best thing to have happened in GT but unfortunately it seems there are many people who don't like change or own the game but haven't even tried Sport Mode which is a travesty.

I would hate to see GT7 go back to single player and just online lobbies with no ranking.

Oh, I agree that I don't want a return to a single player focus, and I'm not suggesting that. In fact, I have been a proponent of dumping the pure single player in favour of making it multiplayer. I would play GT league to death if the races were multiplayer and scheduled like the dailies are.

That said, the cars outside of the gr 3 and gr 4 groups see precious little usage. How much usage have the street cars seen from you? For me, some haven't even turned a wheel yet. This is were the change you mention is for the worse. The PP system wasn't perfect, but it created a very narrow window for a user to work within. There is a lot of value in that. Play with the weight, play with the power, etc, etc, try to fit into that.

The N-class system with BoP simply doesn't match it because of the increased need of human intervention to balance it, rather than finding a way to DECREASE then need for human intervention to balance the cars. So you end up with less balance and less freedom to find a balance.

 

[user3392345]

The good ones converted to the one and only true religion of realistic physics & best forcefeedback called Assetto Corsa
The others.... they play dragon trail gr4 with 10x tyrewear, boost, auto recovery and cars that magically become ghosts

 

[_ApexPredator]

"_ApexPredator: ↑
Will the next post be: "Limit Sport Mode playtime to 1hr per day to make it fair for people with other commitments!"

Oh common now... you must know I've already posed that as a real question in several threads...

I did not, what response did you get?

In all seriousness... F1 has resorted to limiting vehicle activity across the field... think they are on to something?
I do.

I genuinely don't know what you mean.

Then consider, there is no tuning, but an assortment of aids are available. Sure, it's a decision we get to make, but... if it's really about driver V driver... what the heck are aides doing?

Considered:
Not all drivers are equal, some take the game very seriously, and some don't. Some play with a rig that cost several hundreds (sometimes thousands!) of $, some play on a DS4 - they're all playing the same game, and even if there were no user-selectable driver aids in the game, they would exist behind the scenes anyway.

If it's really about driver V driver, then aids should be fixed as well.
Aids are a simple solution to tuning, that, well, for me... arg.

I don't prescribe to your thesis that aids are a "simple solution to tuning" - they're a playing field leveler - necessary to sell what is ultimately just a game to a largely casual audience, most of whom haven't any real world racing experience (many don't even have real world driving experience) let a lone the knowledge & feel needed to diagnose chassis balance issues and make the necessary counter adjustments.

You say yourself that:

Chassis tuning is not going to make me a Dr.A driver... much less A+... and certainly not going to get me near the top 25.
I'm betting tuning will not make me a super man at B

and yet I'm betting that tuning does have the potential to give an A+ driver an extra 0.5-1 seconds a lap on certain tracks over a driver without that tune - is that fair?

So, for the car enthusiast, we get to grab the base car and do nothing...
Yawn.

You get to take the base car and within minutes have a competitive race among similarly skilled drivers safe in the knowledge that if you get beaten it's because they're a better driver (or possibly chose a better-suited car for the track), not because they've found some tranny-flip uber tune on the internets or they've spent 50+ hours in a spreadsheet.

You pose the argument as though anyone who isn't in agreement with you doesn't understand the efficacy of tuning and vehicle dynamics, whereas I just think it's fairer for all that Sport mode comes down to (for the most part) the driving.

*Edit* I've tuned most of the cars that I drive, and I honestly can't say that I ever felt like the game was rubbish or doing something wrong because I couldn't take that tune into Sport mode; I guess it always just seemed obvious

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Anyone that is truly into automobile racing, is also interested in vehicle dynamics... IMO the rest are ... borderline, or possibly full on gamers.
If you are not interested in "what" makes a car fast/consistent... then you are not truly interested in performance automobiles, and therefor you are not a fan of racing, you are a fan of gaming.

C'mon man, the tunes from past GT games had absolutely nothing to do with the real world. The parameters had no relevance to real world settings and the system was so buggy that optimum performance was really due to glitches in the physics than any kind of mastery over "tuning".

I totally went down that rabbit hole trying to push my favorite cars as far as I could through the single player progression, skimming tuning settings from message boards and piecing together tunings via trial and error. Throughout all of it, I never gained any real world grasp of how these tunings equated to my car in my garage.

I totally get that people had insane fun with the system, but it was flat out not racing. It was noodling and playing pretend mechanic learning an arbitrary skill set that had no translation to the real world.

It's fairly obvious that tunings are not a part of the Sport Mode because PD's physics can be wonky and the tuner settings only make them stranger. Balancing all of the potential tune jobs and making the entire player base chase meta tunes is just far too alienation and cumbersome to push forward as an inclusive game design choice.

In the future, I hope they do appeal to tuners more and do whatever they can to help them enjoy the game more but I'd rather race than be on the internet researching pretend tune jobs.

 

[photonrider]

How busy is the game right now?
Is the coming update fueling anticipation and therefore more online presence - since players are the lifeblood of the ‘game’ now - or is activity more or less lackadaisical?

 

[CBH]

How busy is the game right now?
Is the coming update fueling anticipation and therefore more online presence - since players are the lifeblood of the ‘game’ now - or is activity more or less lackadaisical?

About 30 minutes of play time a day photonrider, the coming update may get me to play it more but if its not good enough, I just go back to GT6.

 

[cleanLX]

I recognize I'm in a loosing battle here, but in the interest of conversation...

I did not, what response did you get?

Very unfavourable .

I genuinely don't know what you mean.

Not that long ago (for some of us) F1 teams were permitted as much testing throughout the season as their funds would allow. Since some teams had seemingly unlimitied funds to build duplicate cars for testing, own their own tracks, fly all over the world and test with race and test drivers... the F1 eventually deemed all this time spent testing/practicing provided an unfair advantage over the teams with such resources. So, they eliminated in season testing for all.

Considered:
Not all drivers are equal, some take the game very seriously, and some don't. Some play with a rig that cost several hundreds (sometimes thousands!) of $, some play on a DS4 - they're all playing the same game, and even if there were no user-selectable driver aids in the game, they would exist behind the scenes anyway.

If they were behind the scenes, then it would be equal across the board.
I understand that the aids do not necessarily make the car faster when looking at a one lap faultless all out effort, but put those aids into the racing environment, and they most definitely mask mistakes... throttle out too early, it's ok, TC has your back, need to make a line adjustment while in a long sweeper on the throttle, it's ok, ACM has your back... without those aids, less skilled drivers would be loosing time correcting their mistake, or, in the grass/wall.

I don't prescribe to your thesis that aids are a "simple solution to tuning" - they're a playing field leveler - necessary to sell what is ultimately just a game to a largely casual audience, most of whom haven't any real world racing experience (many don't even have real world driving experience) let a lone the knowledge & feel needed to diagnose chassis balance issues and make the necessary counter adjustments.

So,it's ok to level the playing field... ?
And, we can agree to disagree, but, you can alter the diff. and handling characteristics through tuning to make the cars much more compliant, less edge-y... which is what the aids are doing for you.

and yet I'm betting that tuning does have the potential to give an A+ driver an extra 0.5-1 seconds a lap on certain tracks over a driver without that tune - is that fair?

Fair?
Aids, meta cars, corner cutting, running outside track boundaries, gaming the penalty system, blocking, unlimited practice/playing time...
I'm not sure i can be objective on fair.
I am sure that simple tuning is more sporting than the items noted above.

You get to take the base car and within minutes have a competitive race among similarly skilled drivers safe in the knowledge that if you get beaten it's because they're a better driver (or possibly chose a better-suited car for the track)

First part, agree, that is very nice aspect, the part in parentheses.. Down to luck of the draw, or, employing the meta car... My argument all along is that tuning would allow players a wider variety of cars to race, if they could simply be tuned to work on differing tracks.
I get that the many have no interest in learning how to dial a car in, my point, and the point of this thread is, having it not available takes away from the experience for many others, and could well be part of the dwindling player base.

, not because they've found some tranny-flip uber tune on the internets or they've spent 50+ hours in a spreadsheet.

See that's the thing... some folks do get off on that. During those 50hrs others are practicing/playing online gaining experience (advantage?) while others enjoy the engineering behind it and rather enjoy dialing in a car... so, is it really advantage if I invest my time on a tune, while others get invaluable track experience... I'd argue the track experience is more effective, but talking a as delivered crappy car, making it competitive, and entering a race is exciting... as least for some.
This removes what was once a challenge in the game... at least to those who enjoy that, or even thrive on it.
From a personal perspective...
I've not had time to race online in over 2 months now. And, even when my schedule does clear up, I'll be lucky to invest 2 hours a week, where others are investing in excess of 30hrs a week. Picking up 0.5 seconds a lap through tuning on a non-meta car is not going to effect anyone's race career.
The slow guys will still be slow, the fast guys will still be fast, but instead of having a grid of 991's or Megans or whatever the perceived meta cars are these days you'll now have the rarely seen cars competing, not because tuning has made them meta, rather because tuning has made them predictable, controllable and therefore competitive.

You pose the argument as though anyone who isn't in agreement with you doesn't understand the efficacy of tuning and vehicle dynamics, whereas I just think it's fairer for all that Sport mode comes down to (for the most part) the driving.

Fair enough... We are in agreement, but lets not loose sight of what this thread started out about... what could be a factor in having people walk away from GT Sport.

*Edit* I've tuned most of the cars that I drive, and I honestly can't say that I ever felt like the game was rubbish or doing something wrong because I couldn't take that tune into Sport mode; I guess it always just seemed obvious

I'm not saying it's rubbish or wrong either...
I am saying it makes tuning completely irrelevant... and tuning is a part of the game many enjoy... essentially removing it from the game could be a contributing factor for those who have walked away.

 

[Rinsky]

C'mon man, the tunes from past GT games had absolutely nothing to do with the real world. The parameters had no relevance to real world settings and the system was so buggy that optimum performance was really due to glitches in the physics than any kind of mastery over "tuning".

I have to agree with this. Tuning in GT6 had more to do with gaming than it did with making more like RL. Everyone wanted to make the street cars just like F1 cars and everything about it was completely unrealistic.
Getting tuning to work in GTS like it would in real life PD would almost have to rebuild everything about it otherwise it will follow the same rabbit hole as past games.
I like tuning but I have no desire to make or run against people who take a BMW E30 and turn it into the likes of a Gr.2 car.

 

[_ApexPredator]

Not that long ago (for some of us) F1 teams were permitted as much testing throughout the season as their funds would allow. Since some teams had seemingly unlimitied funds to build duplicate cars for testing, own their own tracks, fly all over the world and test with race and test drivers... the F1 eventually deemed all this time spent testing/practicing provided an unfair advantage over the teams with such resources. So, they eliminated in season testing for all.

Yep.

So,it's ok to level the playing field... ?

See your own F1 analogy? :S

And, we can agree to disagree, but, you can alter the diff. and handling characteristics through tuning to make the cars much more compliant, less edge-y... which is what the aids are doing for you.

I don't use any aids, and I don't disagree with you about the benefits of vehicle tuning :S

I've already explained ad nauseam why I agree with the decision to lock vehicle tunes from Sport Mode -your own F1 anecdote makes the same point - it's the fairest compromise.

Fair enough... We are in agreement, but lets not loose sight of what this thread started out about... what could be a factor in having people walk away from GT Sport.

Well, I agree that that is a shame but I don't really understand the position :S
I don't get how the addition of Sport Mode on top of the lobby system from GT6 means that tuning is now pointless - from this thread alone it sounds like there would be interest in lobby races using tuned road cars

 

[Lord of Tranz]

Hi all. New user but long time reader here, I hope to add to the conversations on this, one of my all time favourite franchises. (Like all, I'm not without flaws or my personal preferences influencing my posts, lol).

I just wish the sociable aspect of the game was more rewarding I think. The trophies being locked to the sport mode stopped me seeking to complete my first GT, quite gutted by that to be fair too. Too frustrating and I'm not playing to get frustrated, lol. Challenged, now that's what I wanted.

I like to collect cars as the side project, and tune/tweak them as much (shocked we can't here) as race or change liveries (I love that aspect here!). But this game just bored me too much and with the campaign mode being poor compared to previous releases, and racing with buddies just not rewarding me either to build my side project up like I always did, I just lost interest in the grinding needed.

Very rewarding to beat friends times on the challenges and circuit experience though, this game needs GT6's high rewarding hot lap seasonal where I could compete online with everyone, but not be hampered in my other pleasures in this game. I'd love a non-contact sport mode race at this point. Then I'd immediately return.

The car crashes are irritating, seems too bouncy and easy to punt someone like a Jezzball, lol. No absorbsion in collisions, it feels.

Not a fan of having 5 of the same gift cars I can't sell too, but free is free, I guess. (Dislike the emphasis on Vision cars too, takes that 'real feel' away for me personally).

Not a NASCAR fan personally, grinding one is never gonna happen, lol.

Beautiful game, as always. But just not engaging to me, I feel it's either too boring and grindy, or too strong/aggressive/troll friendly.

Sorry for the long post, my first. I just want to find reasons to play the game I love. Peace out all.

 

[cleanLX]

C'mon man, the tunes from past GT games had absolutely nothing to do with the real world. The parameters had no relevance to real world settings and the system was so buggy that optimum performance was really due to glitches in the physics than any kind of mastery over "tuning".

I've never seen the fantasy tunes you speak of, but I'm sure the system was gamed.
Do you think tire wear of the current system would expose those crazy tunes and cause them to be noncompetitive/unusable?
Now that I think about it, I have seen some ridiculous videos of the sambabus... are those the types of things you are referring to?
That's a genuine question.

I totally went down that rabbit hole trying to push my favorite cars as far as I could through the single player progression, skimming tuning settings from message boards and piecing together tunings via trial and error. Throughout all of it, I never gained any real world grasp of how these tunings equated to my car in my garage.

At the same time, many others did grasp how the settings could be altered to positively effect handling characteristics, or, mitigate the unpredictable/"bite you" characteristics.

I totally get that people had insane fun with the system, but it was flat out not racing. It was noodling and playing pretend mechanic learning an arbitrary skill set that had no translation to the real world.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, but, many others do understand how the settings work, how it relates, and what performance characteristic can be enhanced or, negative attributes masked/diminished.
And many enjoy doing just that.
It's not about whether it should should not be in Sport mode, rather, the fact that it's not could be a contributing factor into people loosing interest.

It's fairly obvious that tunings are not a part of the Sport Mode because PD's physics can be wonky and the tuner settings only make them stranger. Balancing all of the potential tune jobs and making the entire player base chase meta tunes is just far too alienation and cumbersome to push forward as an inclusive game design choice.

In the future, I hope they do appeal to tuners more and do whatever they can to help them enjoy the game more but I'd rather race than be on the internet researching pretend tune jobs.

Again, I'm unfamiliar with meta tunes, but we can certainly agree on your last sentence.

 

[cleanLX]

See your own F1 analogy? :S
your own F1 anecdote makes the same point - it's the fairest compromise.

I think you've lost sight that my F1 analogy is based on the "time" restraints... as you know they still test/practice/tune the heck out of the car/s every race weekend... the time restrictions simply mean the large budget teams don't have an advantage of doing so continuously... only on race weekend, with their competitors.
And while I think it's an good concept in the real world, it would undoubtedly kill the game.
The comparison is simply made to point out that the game does offer an advantage to those with time to commit.
So while the game offers a unlimited practice advantage, it has eliminated mechanical understanding/application advantages.
It would be had to argue that this is good for some, and not for others.
Just talking here.
I understand the fair and balanced "tool" restrictions, but, it opens the door to those with time to spare to be the better performer through unlimited time practicing.

So, fair... it's never going to be fair due to the ability for some to practice "unlimited" hours while others struggle to put in one 2hr play date a week/month.
So, fair is out...
And I'm ok with that, those that are dedicated and put in the hours should rise to the top.
As a former athlete, I even subscribe to it.
But fair? Not really right?
Thus the F1 comparison.

 

[photonrider]

About 30 minutes of play time a day photonrider, the coming update may get me to play it more but if its not good enough, I just go back to GT6.

I've detailed in length in another thread why GTS and GT6 don't compete with one another (especially now that GT6 has been taken offline) and can actually complement one another. These two games can exist side-by-side at the moment, at least till PD comes up with a way to combine all the features necessary to hold a fan base that wants both a single-player gaming experience with also the option to customize (any which way they want) an online experience with live interactions.

Fortunate is the player who can switch games at will - jumping into GTS for a couple of hours of live fun - and then being able to go back to a similar game - GT6 - that offers them huge amounts of cars and tracks which which to play while GTS is being further developed or till there surely is an iteration that can be called GT7 (with the GTS segment of the game firmly part of it.)
I see it as GT6 being a game where you stay home and watch hundred of movies - while GTS is where you get to go out and star in one.

 

[Sander 001]

You can download the replays of the top times, you could also download the car setups too(if tuning setups were enabled).

Forza had(has?) that.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I've detailed in length in another thread why GTS and GT6 don't compete with one another (especially now that GT6 has been taken offline) and can actually complement one another. These two games can exist side-by-side at the moment, at least till PD comes up with a way to combine all the features necessary to hold a fan base that wants both a single-player gaming experience with also the option to customize (any which way they want) an online experience with live interactions.

Fortunate is the player who can switch games at will - jumping into GTS for a couple of hours of live fun - and then being able to go back to a similar game - GT6 - that offers them huge amounts of cars and tracks which which to play while GTS is being further developed or till there surely is an iteration that can be called GT7 (with the GTS segment of the game firmly part of it.)
I see it as GT6 being a game where you stay home and watch hundred of movies - while GTS is where you get to go out and star in one.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I prefer Cars2 but same idea it does everything GTS doesn't

 

[photonrider]

Whatever helps you sleep at night I prefer Cars2 but same idea it does everything GTS doesn't

That's basically the idea. When one puts all their eggs in one basket it limits the opportunities. I'm sure players 'fill the need' with other games - however indifferent other players are to those alternative games.
I still play TDU2 or one of the NFS games on occasion for a particular driving fix because of what I'm missing in a Gran Turismo game.
And because I've followed the numbered progression of GT - we're used to playing through a number and then been given the 'next' one to play through - I cannot help but continue to peck away at GT6 until a bigger, better GT6 comes along called GT7.

There is no doubt if I had the time and the inclination to spend on another console and wheel I would also play GTS.
Heck, if GTS had been on the PS3 I would have bought it and, if there was no other online but GTS for GT, I would be playing it a fair bit.

What interests us here though is 'presence' - whether friends or random players - and (as can be seen from some of the graphics scattered through the GTS Forum) people quit on the race soon after it's begun. Or tons of unacceptable behaviour puts people off. Or just lack of players appearing when a custom lobby is set up - maybe significantly less than when GT6 had pages of lobbies running - though not all of them, to be sure, had full fields.

If GTS starts suffering from lack of players then there won't be a game, other than the small platform of very exceptional racers racing each other - and they won't be doing it 24/7 for years either - even if fed new cars and tracks every month to keep the fires burning.
GTS is not the only game in town that offers that dish.
To bring millions of players back to playing the game - at least a few hours everyday for years - needs more than random races and suspenseful fluctuations of status with a vague undercurrent of global fame thrown in.
As at least one poster has mentioned in here: it seems to be not viewed as a video game anymore. And PD has forgotten to view it that way, too, caught up in trying to compete with full-on race simulators and searching for prodigies because of manufacturer pressure thus giving up on the millions of video gamers that financed their progress so far.