FFB 1.12 Update

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PD have really messed up this time!!
...
We had one day of this feeling like a true sim, now it feels like an early 90s arcade game.
Looking forward to project cars now!

There seems to be a lot of people on here who are confusing feedback with turning resistance

Feedback = change in resistance due to change in grip
Turning resistance = strength needed to turn the wheel

Perhaps PD could take off the hot fix and give us another slider for Turning resistance/ weight

I have to agree with racecd42, the force feedback was bliss in GT6 terms before the ninja patch. The patch was a knee jerk reaction and should have been thought through a bit more, in addition they should have let people experiment a bit more with the sliders.

Whatever PD did affected all wheels, my settings where on 2/2. Lets say they increased a value by 5 I would need a -3/-3 or 2/-3 if you get my meaning. If PD released that slider they tinkered with then we might be onto something.
 
You couldn't be more wrong, have you actually raced before? If your tires are locked, they can be turning left right or what ever the **** direction you please, but your car isn't going to comply.

Yes, but you still get feedback from the wheel, be it whether it goes loose in the hands or tightens up and doesn't want to turn, it is all feedback and with that feedback you can make the proper decisions to get you out of the mess.
 
With my CSR-E, with the new 1.12 update, the feeling was fantastic, I just had to put ffb to 10, sensitivity to 8, and, for the 1st time in GT6, Dead zone (on my wheel setting) to "0" (dead zone at 10 before).
Now, with the hot fix....:crazy:
 
Yes, but you still get feedback from the wheel, be it whether it goes loose in the hands or tightens up and doesn't want to turn, it is all feedback and with that feedback you can make the proper decisions to get you out of the mess.
From my limited experience in locking the wheels(only a couple of times on wet road & gravel), the feel in the steering was unimportant in regaining control, it was the feel in my foot on the brake that helped me. The feel in the steering wheel quickly went to nothing and I had to be very careful with any corrections I needed to make because it would have been so easy to turn too far and not know. I wish there was force feedback in my pedals :(.
 
This G27 user is getting the wobbly steering and thinks the second adjustment, increasing wheel resistance was too much. Night before last I tested the new "weaker" settings with a car and track combo that had been recently used in the league I race with and I found I liked the weaker setting just fine on FFT4/FFS10. Last night, after running a car that I've driven fairly extensively with the old single FFB setting at 4, I noticed a marked increase in resistance from the night before. Admittedly, it was 2 different cars, but both are race cars and the one last night was on Race mediums and the one on Tuesday was Race Hard. In 2 40 minute races I was neither faster or slower than I expected to be and in the second race I reduced the FFT to 2 and left the FFS at 10. I'm considering further reducing the FFT to 1 for future use. My initial reaction to the latest FFB algorithms is I didn't like it and wanted the previous 1.12 maths restored. I liked that better. Now, before some of you go off on that weak arm tangent, I've been knocking around the planet for 50 years and have driven lots of different vehicles that had that old "Armstrong Power Steering" that consisted pretty much of a gear at the end of a rod that turned some gears connected to the steering rods for the wheels. At a dead stop, vehicles need 2 men and a small boy to rotate the steering wheel. While I may not have Thor arms, me pinions are not weak by any stretch of the imagination.

This entire issue really boils down to personal preference and what you're willing to adapt to.
 
FFT 2-3
FFS 1

The new FFB settings are a great addition to GT6. Great driving experience due to the new FFB changes and the ability to customize settings to one's liking, thanks PD. 👍

Edit: before hotfix ffb was much better
 
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DragonWhiskey,

[QUOTE="This entire issue really boils down to personal preference and what you're willing to adapt to.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more that it boils down to personal preference. The problem for me is that the option to have a heavier, more resistant G27 wheel has been eliminated by the new update.

My personal preference is no longer an option, and it was last Sunday before the update.

Having options taken away after you have grown to love them is tough pill to swallow.

PD doesn't seem to think there is a problem now that the hot fix has been addressed; I'm thinking we will be forced to adapt to a light feeling, swishy wheel if we use a Logitech.
 
For me
Ferrari GTO '84
DFGT
After 1.12, extremely light, but excellent feeling (T=10, S=10)
After Patch, weight was back where it used to be (if not even strionger) and sensitivity remained (T=6, S=10)

feels really good now,
but i wish somehow that PD could model more feeling for a REAR brake lockup.

Brake pedal needs FFB
 
This G27 user is getting the wobbly steering and thinks the second adjustment, increasing wheel resistance was too much. Night before last I tested the new "weaker" settings with a car and track combo that had been recently used in the league I race with and I found I liked the weaker setting just fine on FFT4/FFS10. Last night, after running a car that I've driven fairly extensively with the old single FFB setting at 4, I noticed a marked increase in resistance from the night before. Admittedly, it was 2 different cars, but both are race cars and the one last night was on Race mediums and the one on Tuesday was Race Hard. In 2 40 minute races I was neither faster or slower than I expected to be and in the second race I reduced the FFT to 2 and left the FFS at 10. I'm considering further reducing the FFT to 1 for future use. My initial reaction to the latest FFB algorithms is I didn't like it and wanted the previous 1.12 maths restored. I liked that better. Now, before some of you go off on that weak arm tangent, I've been knocking around the planet for 50 years and have driven lots of different vehicles that had that old "Armstrong Power Steering" that consisted pretty much of a gear at the end of a rod that turned some gears connected to the steering rods for the wheels. At a dead stop, vehicles need 2 men and a small boy to rotate the steering wheel. While I may not have Thor arms, me pinions are not weak by any stretch of the imagination.

This entire issue really boils down to personal preference and what you're willing to adapt to.

You could try lowering the FFS setting because that is causing the wobbly steering and resistance.
 
Couldn't agree more that it boils down to personal preference. The problem for me is that the option to have a heavier, more resistant G27 wheel has been eliminated by the new update.

My personal preference is no longer an option, and it was last Sunday before the update.

Having options taken away after you have grown to love them is tough pill to swallow.

PD doesn't seem to think there is a problem now that the hot fix has been addressed; I'm thinking we will be forced to adapt to a light feeling, swishy wheel if we use a Logitech.

This. A million times this.

At the end of the day steering feel is completely down to user preference. I'm not going to argue whether heavy or light is most realistic, because without g-forces you can never properly replicate the effort needed to turn a real life wheel anyway. The new update is great for those who like light steering, and I'm glad for you people. But for us who likes heavier steering we have no more options. Pre 1.12 you have a range of options from 1-10 to adjust. People who like light are happy, those who like heavy are happy. Now 1-10 feels the same (for Logitech wheels at least). Feedback detail is much improved, but without the 'oomph' it doesn't feel like you're driving a car anymore. The great sense of weight that I've really loved about Gran Turismo is gone.

When my Golf TDI with electric power steering in real life has heavier steering than the Lotus 97T in-game you know something is very, very wrong.
 
But for us who likes heavier steering we have no more options. Pre 1.12 you have a range of options from 1-10 to adjust. People who like light are happy, those who like heavy are happy. Now 1-10 feels the same (for Logitech wheels at least). Feedback detail is much improved, but without the 'oomph' it doesn't feel like you're driving a car anymore. The great sense of weight that I've really loved about Gran Turismo is gone..

Have you downloaded the patch since 1.12??
released on 17/9

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt6-hotfix-addresses-logitech-wheel-force-feedback-issues/#comments

This fixed the weight with my Logitech DFGT
 
Have you downloaded the patch since 1.12??
released on 17/9

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt6-hotfix-addresses-logitech-wheel-force-feedback-issues/#comments

This fixed the weight with my Logitech DFGT

Yep. It helps, but not much.

If you look at my post 2 pages back I also mentioned the problem is inconsistent from car to car. Some cars feel lighter than others, but not in any noticeable (or realistic) pattern. The Lotus 97T is a glaring example. It's waaaay lighter than it should be. The Toyota GT86 on the other hand feels great and weighty.
 
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Glad to see the " CAN'T SEE FRIENDS LOBBY's GLITCH HAS BEEN FIXED..........................................................................................................................."


Only been an issue since about update 5..........................................
 
I'm very happy just thinking my favorite cars might end up feeling too light...Also very happy to have to "look for" a car with an heavy/normal? steering ( i'll try the GT86 tonight )

From here, since the hotfix came pretty fast, i fear we'll be stuck with that because PD can't/is not willing to fix
the logitech wheel issues better than that

FFB was getting weaker and weaker anyways from GT4 to GT6: that was a big letdown so i guess i'm not surprised
anymore by PD's addiction to failing or at least putting efforts in the wrong place.

crossing fingers on this one...
 
Do you guys really think the hotfix destoyed the new sensitivity experienced in the original 1.12?

I see this that way that they just increased the max torgue. So if you have benn glad with the new feeling in the origingal 1.12 the just tone down the strengh setting to something similar as before.

They defnitly improved the sensitivity and yes, the wheel strengh now is lighter than before the 1.12 patch, but for me theres not that much difference. I used FFB 7 before and i am very happy with my 10/9 settings now.
 
FFS = 1 ; FFT = 2, 3 or 4

👍

FF cars have the lightest steering, I guess. Something like the Megane R.S. was very comfortable at 4/1.

I've been running all kinds of RWD road cars around the ring at 3/1 and it's perfectly usable with plenty of force when relevant (call it a nice workout every time you hit a curb or correct oversteer): but why own a powerful wheel like the T500 if you never want powerful forces.... :)

Thx to you guys.

This is my main track day car : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/peugeot-205-gti-1-9-1986.297868/#post-9241688 This car doesn't even have power steering and believe me the wheel is heavy only when the car is stopped. When I am on track the wheel is not as heavy as my T500RS (FFMT@1 and FFS@1) !

This is an old video from me (205 GTI) and my friend (106 s16 with power steering) :
You can clearly see that the wheel is REALLY light specially in the 106 with power steering. It's a little harder in the 205 but it's still a way lighter than the T500RS right now. And tyres are semi-slick for both of us...

I've also driven more modern cars (Clio RS 200 and Megane RS) and believe me, you can drive those cars with only one finger on track !

I love a powerful FFB but only when I drive a race car with slick tyres like a single seater... Currently, I can't even finish the first Sierra event with the Fiat 500, I have the feeling to drive a tank oO, it's awful !

One thing we know for sure is that the power steering option doesn't work anymore. If they just fix that it could change anything for me and I could play GT6 again. I hope they will fix that quickly but I'm really worried because the majority of wheel players have logitech wheels and the FFB seems ok to them now...
 
@poumpoum i do understand what you are saying about not being able to get FFB forces low enough on the T500... But how bad is it?

I'm fair sure that the FFB post 1.12 isn't much stronger to the FFB at GT6 launch, so I'm wondering what settings you used (up to patch 1.09 which completely changed T500 FFB). All other T500 posters are posting Settings along the lines of FFT=2-3/FFS=1, which seems very familiar to the discussions at launch when we were all ending up at FFB=2-3 (unless drifting).
 
@poumpoum i do understand what you are saying about not being able to get FFB forces low enough on the T500... But how bad is it?

I'm fair sure that the FFB post 1.12 isn't much stronger to the FFB at GT6 launch, so I'm wondering what settings you used (up to patch 1.09 which completely changed T500 FFB). All other T500 posters are posting Settings along the lines of FFT=2-3/FFS=1, which seems very familiar to the discussions at launch when we were all ending up at FFB=2-3 (unless drifting).

I think that FFT=2-3/FFS=1 could be perfect if the power steering option was still working. Before 1.12 I used it with every road cars with a feedback around 2 or 3.

This morning I just tried the 97T(race soft tyres) -> the ffb is perfect for me, I even add sensitivity so I ended up with FFMT@1 and FFS@3. Perhaps I could even add a little of max torque... Anyway, just after that I took a 86GT on the same track with sport hard tyres and guess what, the FFB was clearly stronger than the 97T !!! Could you just tried that with your T500 . Perhaps I have a problem with my wheel ?

I assume that a lot of people there love to drive race car in GT6 so this update don't bother them so much. But I mainly use road cars on comfort tyres and I have the feeling to drive a tank now ! No doubt I will be faster with a G27 wheel. I don't complain a lot here, but for me, if they can't at least add the power steering option back I doubt I will play GT6 anymore.
 
It has probably been mentioned before in this thread, but I would wholeheartedly agree with anyone who has suggested that the most positive thing PD could do right now would be to provide an option to return to the FFB state prior to both the 1.12 update and hotfix. In this way, we the customers could carry on enjoying the game while they continue to work on this stuff with a view to improving it. Knowing nothing of the coding involved, I don't know if this would be something easily achieved or not, but I think it would certainly be a popular fix.
 
I think that FFT=2-3/FFS=1 could be perfect if the power steering option was still working. Before 1.12 I used it with every road cars with a feedback around 2 or 3.

This morning I just tried the 97T(race soft tyres) -> the ffb is perfect for me, I even add sensitivity so I ended up with FFMT@1 and FFS@3. Perhaps I could even add a little of max torque... Anyway, just after that I took a 86GT on the same track with sport hard tyres and guess what, the FFB was clearly stronger than the 97T !!! Could you just tried that with your T500 . Perhaps I have a problem with my wheel ?

I assume that a lot of people there love to drive race car in GT6 so this update don't bother them so much. But I mainly use road cars on comfort tyres and I have the feeling to drive a tank now ! No doubt I will be faster with a G27 wheel. I don't complain a lot here, but for me, if they can't at least add the power steering option back I doubt I will play GT6 anymore.

It's weird.

I tested Fiat 500 in the same configuration as you (FFT = 1, FFS = 1), and I could drive with two fingers.
It was quite light. For Clio, same thing. It was heavier but not as much as you describe....
 
It's weird.

I tested Fiat 500 in the same configuration as you (FFT = 1, FFS = 1), and I could drive with two fingers.
It was quite light. For Clio, same thing. It was heavier but not as much as you describe....

Thanks for the info.

When I read the PD's log about the hotfix I begin to think that the power steering option on/off was the real issue. For some reasons the game option is set/memorized on true for you but on false for mine... I will try my wheel with another PS3 / GT6.
 
Thanks for the info.

When I read the PD's log about the hotfix I begin to think that the power steering option on/off was the real issue. For some reasons the game option is set/memorized on true for you but on false for mine... I will try my wheel with another PS3 / GT6.

I forgot to say: power steering was off ;)

To be honest, I didn't like driving Fiat 500 with FFT on 1. For me it was too light. I rised FFT on 2 or 3 (I can't remember) and fun was there 👍
 
but i wish somehow that PD could model more feeling for a REAR brake lockup.

Brake pedal needs FFB

You didn't say which wheel you have, but for G25/27 there is brake feedback, a replacement spring called gteye
 
I forgot to say: power steering was off ;)

To be honest, I didn't like driving Fiat 500 with FFT on 1. For me it was too light. I rised FFT on 2 or 3 (I can't remember) and fun was there 👍

Do you see any difference when you turn power steering on with the same settings on the fiat ?

My therory : I think that your power steering option is stuck to on even if you set it to off in the options of the game.
 
Do you see any difference when you turn power steering on with the same settings on the fiat ?

My therory : I think that your power steering option is stuck to on even if you set it to off in the options of the game.
I played with power steering off and on before patch 1.09, and power steering on gave a strange sudden loss of steering weight when you moved the T500 above a certain speed. I'm not feeling that same effect in 1.12 (power steering set off). So I'm not sure about your theory. But I've not tried enabling power steering since 1.12 because it's not necessary.

I'll have time at the weekend to experiment with your car FFB feel confirmation/requests.
 
Sorry, DFGT.

It's not "feedback" though. just a stiffer spring.

I didn't try it yet, but I have it ordered. It's not just stiffer, the stiffness is variable based on how hard you press the brake. People that tried say they went to ABS 0 because the feedback is so good
 
I played with power steering off and on before patch 1.09, and power steering on gave a strange sudden loss of steering weight when you moved the T500 above a certain speed. I'm not feeling that same effect in 1.12 (power steering set off). So I'm not sure about your theory. But I've not tried enabling power steering since 1.12 because it's not necessary.

I'll have time at the weekend to experiment with your car FFB feel confirmation/requests.

That's how power steering works in GT, it cuts the feedback when you're making quick inputs/corrections, and that's it. It doesn't work like power steering in a real car, it only kicks in when you're making quick movements. Been like that since GT5 at least.
 
I played with power steering off and on before patch 1.09, and power steering on gave a strange sudden loss of steering weight when you moved the T500 above a certain speed. I'm not feeling that same effect in 1.12 (power steering set off). So I'm not sure about your theory. But I've not tried enabling power steering since 1.12 because it's not necessary.

I'll have time at the weekend to experiment with your car FFB feel confirmation/requests.

Thanks 👍
I'll wait for your conclusions.
 
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