FFB 1.12 Update

  • Thread starter DRambo
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My opinion with a G27,

The feedback detail is impressive. Throttle input in a corner, on a FR car, actually translates to the wheel. That's cool.

Running a setting of 8,8.

Wheel at 670 degrees.

I want the resistance back. In a simulation scenario, where I can't feel actual G force, I like to translate that feeling into a heavier wheel feeling. I want to fight the wheel a bit - that's where my enjoyment came in.

Not speaking about realism, overloading motors, or what other player's feel is the "right" way to set your wheel.

I liked having heavy feedback on my G27 on Sunday night, and I'm ticked off that it was gone on Wednesday, even after the hot fix.

I feel robbed.
 
Hotfix was needed badly, its way better now. But they just need to work on smoothing it out a little, and better gradual resistance feel, smoother.
 
FSportIS
I think this is it!!! Also, with this update, it actually increase quality (not quantity) of the FFB so people who use low FFB settings (2-3) prior to the update appreciate this update much more while people use higher FFB settings (7-10) who run it near max torque all the times suddenly see this change and think it is unnatural. I'm not sure if this is attributable to the capacity of the motors in the wheels. As of now, we know that the motors need more force (quantity).

I would use the analogy screen resolution. I do think we have good resolution (quality) but the screen size here is too small (quantity) to play with.
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This ^

I ran a FFB at 4 before the patch and I love the way the wheel feel s now, I can actually feel the force feedback without the stupid center spring and dampening. I think people are getting confused between resistance/Spring strength and Force feedback, they are 2 different things, and the FFB is much improved, you can feel every bump, understeer chatter, ramping up of restistence the faster/harder you turn into a corner, this is much better than the old model of drowning out all the actual FFB and fighting a wheel trying to fly back the other way every time you turn a corner.

I've never known a steering wheel to want to fly out of my hand every time I turn it, maybe in pre 80's heavy non power steered cars, but really, not many of them on the road anymore in all relativity.
 
I was thinking about the new FFB yesterday: on the T500 if you put FF Sensitivity to 1 then you get very similar forces to how GT6 was at release for the T500. Back then we were also talking about using force settings of 2-5 depending on the type of car, this translates directly to FF Max Torque of 2-5.

There are improvements: FF cars feel way better now than GT6 release, including wanting to push if you overpower the front tyres and judder as the car hops when running out of grip. Also curbs are more powerful than before (as in rip the wheel out of your hands powerful if you like).

Given the Logitech wheel lightness, I can understand some guys wanting to add some damping/spring (via FF Sensitivity) but I expect all Fanatec/Thrustmaster belt wheel users to end up reducing FF Sensitivity gradually down: belt wheels have plenty of inherent resistance, and running without oscillation on straights is worth a bit of lighter wheel weight to me any day.

If I still had my Fanatec GT2 plugged in I'd probably be looking at upping Max Torque and then finding a compromise between drift mode setting and FF Sensitivity which gives the least artificial feel....
 
skazz
I was thinking about the new FFB yesterday: on the T500 if you put FF Sensitivity to 1 then you get very similar forces to how GT6 was at release for the T500. Back then we were also talking about using force settings of 2-5 depending on the type of car, this translates directly to FF Max Torque of 2-5.

There are improvements: FF cars feel way better now than GT6 release, including wanting to push if you overpower the front tyres and judder as the car hops when running out of grip. Also curbs are more powerful than before (as in rip the wheel out of your hands powerful if you like).

Given the Logitech wheel lightness, I can understand some guys wanting to add some damping/spring (via FF Sensitivity) but I expect all Fanatec/Thrustmaster belt wheel users to end up reducing FF Sensitivity gradually down: belt wheels have plenty of inherent resistance, and running without oscillation on straights is worth a bit of lighter wheel weight to me any day.

If I still had my Fanatec GT2 plugged in I'd probably be looking at upping Max Torque and then finding a compromise between drift mode setting and FF Sensitivity which gives the least artificial feel....
Click to expand...

I have a T500RS.

You advise me to put FFS to 1 and FFT at 2-5?
 
Atleast my dfgt feel lovely now. It's not that high quality wheel anyways, so I'm happy. I can feel just enough to battle the car in small skids and at the very edge of grip. :cheers:

Btw using settings 8/10
 
After some testing I think I finally cracked the puzzle for Logitech wheels.

The main difference why some people say it's good and some say it's bad is due to the cars. There is a HUGE difference in feedback and weight from car to car. The wheel settings themselves, unfortunately, don't do very much. Forget max torque, sensitivity or wheel rotation. If the car you're driving has bad feedback then the wheel will feel loose and floppy. But if the car has good feedback, the feeling is really good. Not quite as heavy as pre 1.12, but it's pretty close.

Unfortunately, there is no pattern that I can find as to which car is better than others. Race vs road, high vs low downforce, heavy vs light, standard vs premium. It's pretty random at this point.

I tried the following cars (bad = light, ok = medium, good = weighty)
Huayra (ok), 370Z (good), Lotus 97T (very bad), Toyota GT86 (very good), Jag XKR-S (ok), Toyota FT1 VGT (bad), Red Bull Standard (very bad), Red Bull X2014 (very bad), Kart 125 Shifter (good), Tank Car (very bad), Range Stormer Concept (ok)

As you can see there's no clear pattern. If you want to test yourself the most obvious difference would be Lotus 97T and GT86. Who knows, the difference *might* be realistic, but I have trouble believing a monster F1 car from the 80s with high downforce and wide slicks have lighter steering than a road car with EPS on Prius tires.

I'm guessing, like car sounds, PD is in the process of updating each car's feedback information one by one, so the quality is very inconsistent. Before 1.12 the strong wheel weight just blurs everything. But after 1.12 the dynamic range of feedback has been increased. If you're using Thrustmaster wheels that can translate this high range of feedback it feels great. But for Logitech wheels some cars' feedback gets "lost in translation" and you end up feeling nothing (i.e. the floppiness).

Changing to a grippier tyre also helps increase the weight somewhat (makes sense). Also I find Snow now has more resistance than Gravel (doesn't make sense). Everything is so messed up. Even Grid Autosport has better sense of weight than GT6 now :banghead:
 
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The Toyota FT1 VGT on the new Bathurst time trial has insanely powerful FFB on a T500RS. I needed to use FFB torque 2 and FFB sensitivity 1 since any higher was unuseable (higher torque was bucking all over the place, higher sens was causing crazy oscillation).

Does your "bad" for the Toyota FT1 VGT refer to very weak FFB on the G25?
 
skazz
Does your "bad" for the Toyota FT1 VGT refer to very weak FFB on the G25?
Click to expand...

Yes it does. Edited the original post to make it clearer. I see you're using T500RS though, so you're safe. The main problem is only with Logitech wheels from what I can gather.
 
I liked the pre hotfix feedback more. I have put the torque all the way down to two now but it still isn't as sensitive as it used to be after 1.12. This afternoon I will try setting 1.
 
jnmjeeper
My opinion with a G27,

The feedback detail is impressive. Throttle input in a corner, on a FR car, actually translates to the wheel. That's cool.

Running a setting of 8,8.

Wheel at 670 degrees.

I want the resistance back. In a simulation scenario, where I can't feel actual G force, I like to translate that feeling into a heavier wheel feeling. I want to fight the wheel a bit - that's where my enjoyment came in.

Not speaking about realism, overloading motors, or what other player's feel is the "right" way to set your wheel.

I liked having heavy feedback on my G27 on Sunday night, and I'm ticked off that it was gone on Wednesday, even after the hot fix.

I feel robbed.
Click to expand...

Hi bud. Can you please try Senna's 85 Lotus F1 car on those settings and tell me if it feels right...?
Try it on Brands Hatch 80s full, with RH tyres, completely stock. Tks. (Just oil change is fine)
 
poumpoum
@Morphisor and @skazz I've just read your comments about how hard again the T500 can be, do you use power steering on or off ?
Click to expand...

Off. Like Skazz said, the wheel responds well - it only becomes a powerful force once you're past corner entry and get understeer or oversteer. This actually makes your awareness about car placement better, imo. Get it right, and it handles like a dream.
 
VBR
Hotfix has worked for me too. Only tried the X-Bow Street so far, but imo it feels better that it has ever been. We still have the weight of the wheel (thanks to the Hotfix), but now the curbs & bumps in the road have more definition. Whoever it was at PD that tweaked the FFB has done a fantastic job!


:D
Click to expand...

What wheel do you use, VBR?
 
I've got a question in mind.

Guys who are playing with other wheels than Driving Force Pro: what happens when you drive a normal road car at some highway speeds and let your hands off the wheel?
Prior to 1.12 update and the new ffb model there was nothing suspicious here, but now the wheel starts stuttering and oscillating quite violently from side to side, even making it awkward to take turns because the wheel tries to straighten over the center position. Even at sensitivity setting 1 there's more oscillating than before.

Doesn't seem to matter if you enable power steering or not.
So far I've only tried out the most basic FF family sedans, might try others tonight.
 
Morphisor
Off. Like Skazz said, the wheel responds well - it only becomes a powerful force once you're past corner entry and get understeer or oversteer. This actually makes your awareness about car placement better, imo. Get it right, and it handles like a dream.
Click to expand...
Exactly. While I was improving my FT1 VGT lap at Mt. Panorama, at one time I suddenly noticed, that the downforce improved radically, in other words I've perfected my "flow" through the curves and achieved the intented speed for the car to work properly. The speed needed for that is insane though :eek: and I couldn't keep it for the entire lap.
 
Since the hotfix I actually love the FFB. I have max settings on, and it's great. After 1.12 it had great feel but had absolutely NO power behind it, not it's got the same feel as 1.12 with as much power as it did pre-1.12. No complaints on FFB anymore. Now work on the clutch.

arruya
its still weaker than pre 1.12 patch, and locking tyres gives zero feedback... disappointed.
Click to expand...

Have you locked your tires in real life? You get no feedback when your wheels have no grip to the surface, does that not make sense?

For example, check this out.



You can see the Front wheels lock up, and even though they are turned fully to the right the Porsche maintains a straight line.
 
With G27 the best feel for my driving is 8,8. There is a very noticeable difference in FF cars as you enter corners a little hot. There is far more grip loss and loose wheel. Not that this is a problem. Perhaps it is more realistic than before. Generally I have found that even after the patch the FFB is not as strong and uniform(car to car) as it was before 1.12
 
danardif1
Locking tyres will give very little feedback... they're not rotating or gripping the surface!
Click to expand...
MOTORTRENDmitch
Have you locked your tires in real life? You get no feedback when your wheels have no grip to the surface, does that not make sense?
Click to expand...

What are you guys talking about...?

Of course you get lots of feedback from the wheel when your front tyres lock or lose grip.

GGGMotorsport
Before 1.12, I just accepted the lack of feel in the front wheels as I didnt know of anything better
After 1.12 (before hotfix) - Holy Crap, so this is what the road feels like, I love it!
After hotfix - Crap Im back to what it was before 1.12 only now I know what Ive been missing.
Click to expand...
My feelings exactly.
 

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