FIA GT3: The present of GT racing, the future of GT6?

[SagarisGTB]

It looks very strange and it's not pretty. The Vertigo looks far far better.

In the current spec, not necessarily. From what I read and hear, GT3 cars are actually faster then GTE cars.

They have similar pace now, but GT3 are getting faster all the time. They are in the midst of surpassing GTE currently, on lower downforce circuits they probably already have.

Fuji in 2012
GTE in WEC best lap: 1'40.3
GT3 in Super GT best lap: 1'40.5
(*the best GT3 lap at Fuji this year in Super GT was 1'38.6; the GTE cars will improve when they run later this year, but I don't think they will match that)

Spa in 2013
GTE in WEC best lap: 2'19.1
GT3 in ADAC GT Masters best lap: 2'19.3

There's also far more differences between the two classes than TertreRouge suggested.

EDIT: On another note... isn't the Gillet Vertigo an FIA car? GT1 maybe? I wish they would fix that cars in-game performance to make it more realistic. Even if they brought it down to GT3 spec, it would fit the crowd well.

The Gillet Vertigo race car was built for the GTB class in Belcar and later raced in FIA GT in the G2 (the "guest class"). The car had 400-450 hp in real life and was considerably slower than current GT2/GTE or GT3 cars. The GT5 car is an enigma, I have no idea why they changed the car so drastically.

 

[Tornado]

It looks like a Grand Am Mustang that a fat person sat on.

 

[05XR8]

Let's just hope for 4 new GT3 cars we've been given all compete with each other and the AI don't race a stale, straight line "best car always wins", circuit!

I don't want races where the race is decided before it begins.

1. GTR
2. Audi
3. BMW
4. SLS

That order of cars could get pretty boring. It's like that in GT5 right now.. before the race even begins you can predict who's going to finish where..

yeah, I really hated that the GT500 SC430's being left in the dust in every race.

the problem with GT racing is that McLaren LM. In A-Spec. the Ford GT race cars are king. In Seasonals, you can catch the Ford Gts but, the F1 murders the field. I think the F1 specs are 650hp/980-1000kg(?). the only other stock GT Race Car on RH tyres that could catch that in one-lap at the Nur would be a ZR1 LM.

I'm hopeful all NEW GT3 cars will be pretty equal. we'll see. true, the SLS is the heaviest and least powerful of the lot but, the R8 probably handles better than the GT-R. Plus, the R8 is lighter and more powerful. the Z4 is the lighter still.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

The Gillet can be consider a GT3 car although it didn't make the production numbers for the car to run in the championship. But the Gillet is being used as a base for the VDS GT 001-R that ran in the Dubai 24 this year.

Looks like some sort of re-imagined Lancia Beta/Montecarlo/037 mix to me. Not pretty but eye catching nonetheless.

 

[Tornado]

the problem with GT racing is that McLaren LM. In A-Spec. the Ford GT race cars are king. In Seasonals, you can catch the Ford Gts but, the F1 murders the field. I think the F1 specs are 650hp/980-1000kg(?). the only other stock GT Race Car on RH tyres that could catch that in one-lap at the Nur would be a ZR1 LM.

I'm hopeful all NEW GT3 cars will be pretty equal. we'll see. true, the SLS is the heaviest and least powerful of the lot but, the R8 probably handles better than the GT-R. Plus, the R8 is lighter and more powerful. the Z4 is the lighter still.

That's kinda because with all of the power numbers of the LMP and GT1 cars being artificially inflated (it ordinarily competed with the CLK-LM, R390 GT1, Panoz GTR-1, etc., but in GT5 those all have 800+ horsepower and the F1 has more specs much more true to the real car) the F1 GTR doesn't really have anything to race anymore, so PD put it with the FIA GT-esque cars that they made and the Oreca Vipers and C5-R; and it's (realistically) much faster than them.

If PD takes care to get accurate specs for the GT3 cars, they should be relatively equal in races because they are relatively equal in real life.

 

[A_Higher_Place]

Hmm, well either way, I wonder if PD will allow to create GT3 spec cars to race the real ones in game. Or at least let us use other race cars against them .. under a certain PP limit. Then there's so many ways to expand personal competition.

In GT5 I down-tuned that Gillet Vertigo to be equal performance to the C5-R and had some great races!

 

[freshseth83]

That's kinda because with all of the power numbers of the LMP and GT1 cars being artificially inflated (it ordinarily competed with the CLK-LM, R390 GT1, Panoz GTR-1, etc., but in GT5 those all have 800+ horsepower and the F1 has more specs much more true to the real car) the F1 GTR doesn't really have anything to race anymore, so PD put it with the FIA GT-esque cars that they made and the Oreca Vipers and C5-R; and it's (realistically) much faster than them.

If PD takes care to get accurate specs for the GT3 cars, they should be relatively equal in races because they are relatively equal in real life.

They're 'inflated' because there is no 'restrictor sizes' in Gran Turismo. The cars run air restrictors that are about an inch or so in diameter. IIRC LMP1 cars like the TS030 run around 32mm air restrictor sizes. Theres a video on youtube of the Nissan guys talking about if they ran their engines unrestricted, they would be upwards of 800hp. Look at the Pikes Peak Peugeot T16, it is running an engine from an lmp1 car (Courage), but makes 875hp. Because it runs no 'restrictors'.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Christ that's ugly.

Haha this post made me laugh alittle.

 

[Tornado]

They're inflated because PD applied a power multiplier to their default torque curves. There is no correlation between what they can "really" make and what they make in GT5 other than the numbers being similar at a glance; especially not for the normally aspirated cars.

 

[freshseth83]

You got proof of that? NA engines in F1 make around 800hp. Before the V8s the V10s made over 900. The Pescarolo GV5 Judd V10 in GT5 makes 833hp @100% (without additional turbos), hey, look here- http://www.mulsannescorner.com/juddgv510.html 800+ hp unrestricted. Inflated or pretty accurate? The Pescarolo Courage Peugeot (same engine in the T16 pikes peak) in GT5 makes 828hp but irl its putting out 875hp.

 

[Tornado]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Pescarolo engines can make 800+ horsepower (or in the case of the Hybride, 900+) unrestricted. No doubt whatsoever. They are considerably enlarged and refined versions of Judd Formula One engines from the early 90s, and even at the 3.5L they originally were they probably had around 750 HP.
It's much harder to believe that they would pull those power numbers at such a low RPM (8000 RPM power peak and 9000 RPM redline at 160 hp/l?). It is impossible for me to believe that they would have those power numbers and (in the case of the Hybride) pull ~700 pound feet of torque out of a normally aspirated 5 liter engine.




That's the most extreme example, but the same issue lies with the 905 (430 lb ft from a 3.5L engine), the CLK-LM (725 lb ft from a 5 liter engine, even if it should be a 6 liter engine, and at only 3500 RPM), the V12 LMR (700 lb ft from a 6 liter engine at only 3500 RPM) and the GTR-1 (700 lb ft from a 6 liter engine). Even the 2004 Pescarolo doesn't line up with those numbers, with 520 lb ft from a 5 liter engine at only 6500 RPM.

 

[freshseth83]

They arent perfect but the power numbers are far from made up. Theres lots that could be fixed but imo the power is close to real life if unrestricted, the "power limiter" makes due but restrictor sizes would be the best way to accurately depict the power these cars make irl.

 

[Tornado]

The power is close to real life for an unrestricted engine. The torque and torque curves are the purely imaginary part; in practice making the cars completely different from how an unrestricted version of the cars would actually be (and making it so you can't use the power limiter to make them drive right because they still have far too much torque) even if the intended goal was to make them emulate what the cars could theoretically have (which I don't personally believe it was).



In any case, it has the effect of taking all of the other GT1 cars away from the F1 GTR and screwing up the entire car balance when they should be roughly comparable to it in performance. Hopefully the new physics engine will make such shenanigans unnecessary, and the cars will be returned to their regular numbers that they are rated for in the car dealerships; and if they want to do the "real" numbers they will just do what Forza does and allow you to upgrade them from the regular numbers to the unrestricted ones (and the actual unrestricted ones hopefully rather than power multiplied ones, which even Forza doesn't quite right).

 

[A_Higher_Place]

Isn't the C5-R the only GTS/GT1 car they did get right? The viper destroys that car .. along with the mclaren. Seems like the made up LM GT cars are more realistic compared to the others.

Overall, it was a mess in GT5. Everything dusted the C5-R except the Lister Storm... which got dusted by the C5-R. Things need to be more equal and less AI predictable. So hopefully that's fixed with these new GT3's. (to stay on topic)

 

[05XR8]

I hope as well. Now, the C7 RM/TC/GT3. Will we see it in ALMS GTE form rated at less than 500hp(according to the specs of the ZR1 Corvette Racing website)? Or can we expect a fantasy version? Now, remember, PD said most(not all)cars will have customisable parts and Chevrolet wanted the world to test drive the C7 in both pre-production versions. We're getting the real deal(C7 production road car) this time, 2 months before racing season in the Northern Hemisphere commences.

 

[Snaeper]

I hope as well. Now, the C7 RM/TC/GT3. Will we see it in ALMS GTE form rated at less than 500hp(according to the specs of the ZR1 Corvette Racing website)? Or can we expect a fantasy version? Now, remember, PD said most(not all)cars will have customisable parts and Chevrolet wanted the world to test drive the C7 in both pre-production versions. We're getting the real deal(C7 production road car) this time, 2 months before racing season in the Northern Hemisphere commences.

I'd be willing to bet that we'll see a fantasy version (RM/TC) if we get any racing version at all. I'd bet that any actual racing C7 will come about as DLC.

 

[snowgt]

The Gillet Vertigo race car was built for the GTB class in Belcar and later raced in FIA GT in the G2 (the "guest class"). The car had 400-450 hp in real life and was considerably slower than current GT2/GTE or GT3 cars. The GT5 car is an enigma, I have no idea why they changed the car so drastically.

Fun fact: The Gillet is the only car I know of whose Performance Points go down when you change the oil. It apparently has so much power that even GT5 doesn't believe it can use it.

 

[dr_slump]

Fun fact: The Gillet is the only car I know of whose Performance Points go down when you change the oil. It apparently has so much power that even GT5 doesn't believe it can use it.

There are more with the same behaviour.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I hope as well. Now, the C7 RM/TC/GT3. Will we see it in ALMS GTE form rated at less than 500hp(according to the specs of the ZR1 Corvette Racing website)?

There is no such website it's just corvetteracing.com. As for the power...your guess is as good as mine, but the RM Corvettes in GT5 were not based on any current race Vette.

Or can we expect a fantasy version? Now, remember, PD said most(not all)cars will have customisable parts and Chevrolet wanted the world to test drive the C7 in both pre-production versions. We're getting the real deal(C7 production road car) this time, 2 months before racing season in the Northern Hemisphere commences.

That's just the C7 production car though that doesn't guarantee us a racing version at all. Especially since the racing version hasn't be finished yet. I think any version made is going to be a fantasy car like the last ones, but we will have to see.

 

[SubaruWRC555]

I hope they bring back Apricot Hill Raceway. That would be an awesome circuit for some GT3 battles!!

 

[RACECAR]

There is no such website it's just corvetteracing.com. As for the power...your guess is as good as mine, but the RM Corvettes in GT5 were not based on any current race Vette.

Was under the impression that they were loosely based on the GT1 car (at least the somewhat identical looks as well as the "Pratt & Miller" logo Left me to think so anyway).

 

[Clark]

They look a lot like the GTE C6.Rs to me.

 

[Snaeper]

There is no such website it's just corvetteracing.com. As for the power...your guess is as good as mine, but the RM Corvettes in GT5 were not based on any current race Vette.

Was under the impression that they were loosely based on the GT1 car (at least the somewhat identical looks as well as the "Pratt & Miller" logo Left me to think so anyway).

They look a lot like the GTE C6.Rs to me.

The RM's seem to be a hodge-podge of racing Corvette style elements between the Callaway Z06.R and the Pratt & Miller C6R ZR1.


The front end and wheel style, as well as the overall profile of the car created by those elements gives it the appearance of the early Z06.R in my opinion.

However smaller details such as the hood, fuel-filler placement (or whatever that rear indentation in the rear window and fender is) and exhaust tip are almost dead on with the C6R.

So in effect, it's more of a combination of the two, which might explain why both the Z06 and ZR1 Corvette's received the RM, since the C6R is based on one, and the Z06.R on the other. It's effectively a tribute to both cars.

 

[05XR8]

That's what I figured. Was hoping PD would have changed the headlights but, I guess it's a Pratt & Miller design feature or PD couldn't get the license to make the actual car(obviously as it's not in the game) or it was too early when GT5P came out.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Was under the impression that they were loosely based on the GT1 car (at least the somewhat identical looks as well as the "Pratt & Miller" logo Left me to think so anyway).

Look wise it is based on the GT1, yet stat wise it is a very fictional car. Also the Z06 rm is a combination it would seem between the GT1 and GT3 cars. I just think it would have been more ideal for the Z06 rm to be a GT3 due to the realistic hp gain after the RM but needed more of a higher rev limit to be realistic. The ZR1 which is what the GT1 is, should have had 590-600 hp instead of going to 700hp (can't remember exactly). It goes on beyond that obviously but yeah I'm sure GM along with Pratt & Miller gave the okay to PD. I just wonder why they didn't just use the GT3 and GT1 car if they were given the ability to use such cars.

My point in what I said though is that the cars aren't based on any real racing Vette yet they look like them. That is what I meant.

 

[A_Higher_Place]

Does your knowledge stretch out to the Ford GT Spec II Test Car by chance?

It doesn't quite fully look the part of a GT3 ... and goes way over for power..

 

[RACECAR]

Does your knowledge stretch out to the Ford GT Spec II Test Car by chance?

It doesn't quite fully look the part of a GT3 ... and goes way over for power..

Strange thing is the Ford GT Test car is essentially a slightly enhanced, premium version of the car in GT4, which existed before any Ford GT race car actually were made (remember Ford discouraging anyone from officially racing it). Its somewhere more as a GT1 car.

 

[GT-Roadie]

There is a Ford GT in the grid of the GT3 cars (only) at ADAC GT Masters in Germany.

Look here: ADAC GT Masters

 

[Furinkazen]

More info on incorrect Le Mans specs.

 

[RACECAR]

More info on incorrect Le Mans specs.

Out of curiousity, are the real HP numbers on the Group C cars based on qualifying trim or Race trim?