Field of View (FOV aka why does that track look so wide?)

[Wolfe]

The reason console games use wider FOVs is because not everyone sits two or three feet away from their HDTV. The Xbox 360 and PS3 still offered composite connections for CRT TVs like mine, too.

For my setup, the calculator spits out a value of ~25 degrees. The FOV slider in Live for Speed doesn't even go that low (minimum is 30), and that's with my laptop abutting the back of my Logitech G25. That might be a clue that some setups fall outside of the practical range covered by this trick. I can really "break" it by plugging in the data for off-TV play on the Wii U GamePad (6.3" screen). Depending on how I hold the controller, the calculated FOV could dip below 20 degrees. That's just not practical.

 

[nepal road]

What's the reason console games have the FOV so far back?

The earliest racing games had to use that stretched out perspective because that is all the hardware was capable of back then and it was the only way to deliver any sense of realism, the observable apparency of speed. Following on from that, millions upon millions of gamers became accustomed to this view and developed real skills based on it and expect it in subsequent games. The sense of speed is one factor, but I suspect that the stretched out view is actually easier (it certainly feels like it if I try it that way) as it reduces all extreme directions that are away from straight ahead and flat. Another factor we need to consider is that our younger members will be accustomed to looking out of side windows of their parents cars for their sense of speed in the real world as opposed to the driving seat view.

 

[nepal road]

@Willfred_1 or any other WMD member. Is there a way to change the position of the horizon line on the screen. i.e. in Assetto Corsa there is an option to change the angle of elevation so I have mine set so that the horizon line is below the midpoint of the screen. I've noticed on PCars that the line appears to be either central or perhaps a bit above even? although hat might just be a mis-perception on my part. Or to put another way, this is the setting for the height of the drivers eyes. I'm a tall driver, Jimmy is a short driver, we are used to very different views due to this angle of elevation. I've also noticed it is important in not giving the impression while driving a mini that I'm sat in a Volvo truck, due to the apparent height from the road the driver views at.

Edited to add clarity.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

The reason console games use wider FOVs is because not everyone sits two or three feet away from their HDTV. The Xbox 360 and PS3 still offered composite connections for CRT TVs like mine, too.

For my setup, the calculator spits out a value of ~25 degrees. The FOV slider in Live for Speed doesn't even go that low (minimum is 30), and that's with my laptop abutting the back of my Logitech G25. That might be a clue that some setups fall outside of the practical range covered by this trick. I can really "break" it by plugging in the data for off-TV play on the Wii U GamePad (6.3" screen). Depending on how I hold the controller, the calculated FOV could dip below 20 degrees. That's just not practical.

To be fair the calculator actually says at the bottom if you are outside certain criteria you need to take other things into account (ie a wider field of view) so basically you can only use a realistic field of view within certain limits of distance to the screen and size of screen.

Smell the roses

 

[nepal road]

Smell the roses

eh

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

eh

 

[nepal road]

I know what it means I wondered what you were implying by it. What went unsaid?

 

[MrPix]

@Willfred_1 or any other WMD member. Is there a way to change the position of the horizon line on the screen. i.e. in Assetto Corsa there is an option to change the angle of elevation so I have mine set so that the horizon line is below the midpoint of the screen. I've noticed on PCars that the line appears to be either central or perhaps a bit above even? although hat might just be a mis-perception on my part. Or to put another way, this is the setting for the height of the drivers eyes. I'm a tall driver, Jimmy is a short driver, we are used to very different views due to this angle of elevation. I've also noticed it is important in not giving the impression while driving a mini that I'm sat in a Volvo truck, due to the apparent height from the road the driver views at.

Edited to add clarity.

Yes there is. Hit ctrl +k and you enable a camera moving mode, you can use the numpad and various key presses to move and tilt to your hearts desire. It doesn't save between sessions presently, but is quick to do exiting the pits and I use it on only the cars with the worst angles and most restrictive seat movement/drivers eyes movements.

 

[MrPix]

For the record, my FOV calculator gives mathematical accuracy based on 1:1 calculations. Depending on how accurate the in-sim/game cockpit view is, really depends on how close to this setting you can get. In nearly all sims and games, I try to drive 1:1, but sometimes the initial view in the cockpit is so far out (particularly in some community mods where the origin is way off) that I have to add 5 to 10 degrees vFOV just so it looks right. In one particular AC mod, I have to add 15 degrees just to get the cockpit in proportion... paid for mod too... tsshhh.

The important thing is, having much closer representation to real life views gives greater immersion, it can make you a better racer, or it can spoil the experience if you haven't got a big enough screen view to appreciate it.

Go with what feels right for you.... for me, I'm a graphics whore, but I enjoy the immersion so it's a toss up whether to race in 1:1 mode with the 84" curved screen with 1mm square pixels or whether to use a single 40" 4K screen and drown in graphics splendour.... it's a tough choice (1st world problem) but if I was back on a single 27" monitor, FOV would not be paramount for me unless I used TrackIR (which I have done for years on small screens) to get my peripheral vision back.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

I know what it means I wondered what you were implying by it. What went unsaid?

Everyone gets to enjoy the views they like. Aren't we going round in circles now?

 

[FuriousDemon]

Yes there is. Hit ctrl +k and you enable a camera moving mode, you can use the numpad and various key presses to move and tilt to your hearts desire. It doesn't save between sessions presently, but is quick to do exiting the pits and I use it on only the cars with the worst angles and most restrictive seat movement/drivers eyes movements.

Ctrl+k is not gonna be in final release. However, aren't there seat adjustment option to move your set forward, back, up, down?

 

[MrPix]

Ctrl+k is not gonna be in final release. However, aren't there seat adjustment option to move your set forward, back, up, down?

Yes of course, but that wasn't the question was it?

I thought the question was: "is there ... ...an option to change the angle of elevation...?

 

[nepal road]

Everyone gets to enjoy the views they like. Aren't we going round in circles now?

No. Are you wanting to stop the discussion? We are exploring the properties of racing simulators and all that encompasses. My particular interest is in how close to reality can the Sim provide, and therefore how immersive as well as how true a test of my actual skills, excluding the obvious lack of actual momentum. The only problem seems to be those people who appear to have personal weaknesses that make them take as personal insult things I am writing about.

Why is simulated reality so important? Here's one reason.



Or go and listen to these two discussing muscle memory and positional memory.

For us drivers with years of driving already in our muscle memory, what we do in a Sim concerned with driving will either be in harmony with our muscle memory, or in conflict with it.

If you are bored with this thread how about just not reading it.

 

[nepal road]

Yes of course, but that wasn't the question was it?

I thought the question was: "is there ... ...an option to change the angle of elevation...?

No it was can the position of the horizon be moved further down the screen/monitor.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Yes of course, but that wasn't the question was it?

I thought the question was: "is there ... ...an option to change the angle of elevation...?

What I mean is, ctrlk is not an option. Seat adjustments are the closest thing to what he wants to do.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

No. Are you wanting to stop the discussion? We are exploring the properties of racing simulators and all that encompasses. My particular interest is in how close to reality can the Sim provide, and therefore how immersive as well as how true a test of my actual skills, excluding the obvious lack of actual momentum. The only problem seems to be those people who appear to have personal weaknesses that make them take as personal insult things I am writing about.

Why is simulated reality so important? Here's one reason.



Or go and listen to these two discussing muscle memory and positional memory.

For us drivers with years of driving already in our muscle memory, what we do in a Sim concerned with driving will either be in harmony with our muscle memory, or in conflict with it.

If you are bored with this thread how about just not reading it.

Well I didn't even reply to you. I've agreed with many of the things you and most of the others have said. I've contributed to this thread and I'm not bored with it. No need to take offense as none at all is intended.

 

[nepal road]

Well I didn't even reply to you. I've agreed with many of the things you and most of the others have said. I've contributed to this thread and I'm not bored with it. No need to take offense as none at all is intended.

Sorry, my mistake then. 👍

 

[MrPix]

What I mean is, ctrlk is not an option. Seat adjustments are the closest thing to what he wants to do.

Oh sorry all, forgot I was on a forum full of pedantics..... (including myself). But to be clear why I answered the question asked although it seems not the one he asked but it actually was.... the horizon only alters by tilting your head or moving with ctrl +k. The up/down seat movement does not change the horizon on the monitor screen. Default seat movement alters where the cockpit is on screen but the horizon remains fixed, only tilting your head or moving up/down with ctrl +k at different angles alters where the horizon is on the monitor.

You'd be surprised what SMS leave in games... in the previous title TD Ferrari Legends, there was actually FOV adjustment if you knew which keys to press, but it was not advertised as such

 

[MJRL]

Can you take some screenshots to show us what you mean?

Look at the size of the buttons, in a bigger screen the proportions will look bigger.

 

[Wolfe]

@nepal road -- In case you overlooked it the first time, when JohnScoonsBeard pointed it out:

Disclaimer: This calculator provides you a means to see what your mathematically correct FOV should be within certain games/sims to represent a 1:1 view against real life as close as possible and works best with a large monitor (or multiple monitors) as close to you as possible (between 22" and 33" from eyes to centre of screen). If your monitor is more than 3ft (~1M) away or you have only a single small monitor (< 27" diagonal) or both, then FOV is not the first thing you should address to enhance your experience, immersion and enjoyment.

The rest of us all agreed roughly three pages ago, and the author of the calculator agrees -- a calculated FOV isn't meant for everyone with every setup. We could leave it at that if you weren't challenging the fact.

So has the author of the FOV calculator also subscribed to the childish "fallacy" that some would do better to maintain a wider viewing angle and sense of speed for their setup? Or is someone else acting like a child for lecturing others about the "right" way to play a videogame, while ignorant of the realities of how the advice applies or when it's appropriate?

 

[MrPix]

So has the author of the FOV calculator also subscribed to the childish "fallacy" that some would do better to maintain a wider viewing angle and sense of speed for their setup?

Nope... just offering Mathematical correctness. Take it or leave the facts... use what's right for you. I have a 1:1 screen and still can't see the passenger mirror across 84" 21:9 diagonal that covers my peripheral vision entirely.. I have to move my head to see the passenger mirror in my own car clearly too .... so you have no chance with a single monitor! Use what feels right.

I guess I'm childish for a 50 year old as I still play these 'games'. Personally, I don't give a **** what anyone else feels/does with their game/sim experience

 

[NLxAROSA]

I have to move my head to see the passenger mirror in my own car clearly too

Well, then you are either a midget or you're glued to the steering wheel. In any car I've driven (and that's dozens), I can check the rear view mirror by just moving my eyes, not my head. That said, I think this can be replicated fine with a triple monitor setup and a proper seating position. 👍

On another note, I've been experimenting with VR using my HTC One M8 and a Colorcross headset. This works really great with Project CARS. One thing I noticed is that, since you're looking at a really small screen from a very small distance, if you have a very small FOV, you have to move your head for the smallest of actions, which is completely unrealistic (and makes you nauseous, but that's another topic ). So I stuck with the default FOV, but that also doesn't feel quite right. Anyone have any experience with a VR headset and what FOV settings do you prefer there?

 

[GTAndy36]

Well, then you are either a midget or you're glued to the steering wheel. In any car I've driven (and that's dozens), I can check the rear view mirror by just moving my eyes, not my head. That said, I think this can be replicated fine with a triple monitor setup and a proper seating position. 👍

He said passenger mirror, not rear view mirror.

 

[MrPix]

Well, then you are either a midget or you're glued to the steering wheel. In any car I've driven (and that's dozens), I can check the rear view mirror by just moving my eyes, not my head. That said, I think this can be replicated fine with a triple monitor setup and a proper seating position. 👍

I think you should stop insulting others (my sister-in-law is vertically challenged) and read posts properly.

I could give you my experience of the DK2 vs sFOV vs Triple screens, but with your attitude, you don't deserve my time.

 

[GTAndy36]

I think you should stop insulting others (my sister-in-law is vertically challenged) and read posts properly.

I could give you my experience of the DK2 vs sFOV vs Triple screens, but with your attitude, you don't deserve my time.

Not sure there's much need for that attitude either... but hey ho.

 

[MrPix]

Not sure there's much need for that attitude either... but hey ho.

Agreed, but there are too many ready to pounce on others and rip apart anything they say. This forum seems to be one of the worse for it.

How about we all just respect each others views instead of trying to belittle one another?

This thread is about the controversial FOV and why things look the way they do in racing games (e.g. why do the tracks look so wide for some and not others) not whether I'm short, tall, have 6 toes on each foot or am as black as the ace of spades... or can't move my eyes

I offered my view and put an explanation behind it, albeit a short one... then I get accused of being vertically disadvantaged or not being able to hold the wheel right... WTF?

 

[NLxAROSA]

He said passenger mirror, not rear view mirror.

My bad/language barrier, sorry about that.

@MrPix: take it down a notch, no insult or harm intended. 👍 And please, don't say this form is worst when you yourself immediately assume the worst and lash out/throw a tantrum...

 

[Cote Dazur]

First a few word to say thank you for Mr Pix for providing for free ( donation are welcome ) a very well made, accurate and convenient FOV calculator. your efforts are appreciated ( by some).

Some prefer to ignore the data, some even get threaten by the data, it is sad, but mostly for them.

Funny that you are spending time and money trying to help us but are treated by some as an enemy, or not even worth of common courtesy.

I am enjoying a calculated FOV on a 32 inch screen positioned very (very) close to my wheel and without efforts from guy's like Mr Pix, I might not even have tried it. So thank you for making the time I spend driving my SIMs a better experience.

When you have a chance, please share your experience of the DK2 vs sFOV vs Triple screens, I, for one, am very interested on what you have to say, coming from someone like you who has (to me) the perfect set up to compare them.
Hoping this few words will help keep thing in perspective, which should be a must in an FOV thread.

 

[Johnnypenso]

First a few word to say thank you for Mr Pix for providing for free ( donation are welcome ) a very well made, accurate and convenient FOV calculator. your efforts are appreciated ( by some).

Some prefer to ignore the data, some even get threaten by the data, it is sad, but mostly for them.

Funny that you are spending time and money trying to help us but are treated by some as an enemy, or not even worth of common courtesy.

I am enjoying a calculated FOV on a 32 inch screen positioned very (very) close to my wheel and without efforts from guy's like Mr Pix, I might not even have tried it. So thank you for making the time I spend driving my SIMs a better experience.

When you have a chance, please share your experience of the DK2 vs sFOV vs Triple screens, I, for one, am very interested on what you have to say, coming from someone like you who has (to me) the perfect set up to compare them.
Hoping this few words will help keep thing in perspective, which should be a must in an FOV thread.

After reading your post I realized it was @MrPix's FOV calculator I was using in setting up my rig. Thank you @MrPix, keep up the good work!

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

I'm now using "narrowest" on some GT6 cars and enjoying that too. The closer I inch the screen towards me the better it gets. Thanks again to this thread and @MrPix whether it's in GT6, Stock Car Extreme, GTR2 or I hope soon to be Project Cars you have improved my enjoyment of all of them.