FITT-Hot Hatch Tuning Challenge - Final Results are in!

I apologize, I am pulling out as a tuna. My tune only feels 1/10 done. I was ok with the transmission, failed horribly with the LSD and never touched the suspension. :(

I will do as much testing as I can. :)
 
Ronald6
I apologize, I am pulling out as a tuna. My tune only feels 1/10 done. I was ok with the transmission, failed horribly with the LSD and never touched the suspension. :(

I will do as much testing as I can. :)
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That's ok. My tune feels about 3/10 done. I think it is just the nature of the FF drive train?
 
^^^ Yeah. I think with one of the 4WD or FR base models I would have done better. The FF base model is what I refer to as a "Ridonkulous" vehicle. (Ford Expeditions, and modern Corvettes also fall into this category, but more because of the typical driver than the car.)

In a car that doesn't burn the front tyres every time you touch the throttle I think I'll do better. The torque overpowered (see what I did there :)) all other aspects of tuning. Who can tell what the suspension characteristics are when your burning the tyres at entry, middle and exit?
 
Oh the hate on FF drivetrain ;)

I think at 470pp you've moved just outside the sweet spot, up to about 460pp there are some brilliant FWD cars that are both fun and fast.
 
I was doing Fito testing and I have come across a MAJOR bug... Well, to the eyes of PD it may not be a bug but to me it bloody is.

As you know the setup has 3 sheets, and I was applying each setup to each sheet, and I completed first 3 competitants. I was careful not to exceed 165hp and each tuner's designated PP value by watching the engine upgrade stage. It's a known fact the engine tunig stage carries across all 3 sheets so it messes up the balance, and yes thank you, I'm not that dumb, I did made sure each car met the exact specification. However, this is not the point I'm disappointed in PD (again) with.

By the time I got to donpost's tune, his tune requires stage 3 engine tuning and I did that all the figures matched and off I went to test. However, I just felt the car wasn't right, the gears. The gears felt a lot longer and it just felt different from the 1st car I tested. I looked at the transmission, yep, it says I got a 6speed fixed close ratio gear box, you know, the middle one, the first one is standard, the third is custom gearbox, which I didn't even buy. I changed the gear box back to standard then changed it back to close-6speeder and guess what?

The bloody 🤬 gear ratio changed in front of my 🤬 eyes!!!!!

Yes ladies n getlemen, it is a proven fact now that if you make a change to engine that boosts top RPM it changes the ratio of even the standard gear box! I'm not talking about the figures, the numbers won't change now since 1.05, but if you look at the graph where the 6th gear lines up against letters above, the whole ratios change.

If you don't believe me, change the engine stage down to 1, reset the transmission, switch to different sheet, back to original sheet, change engine stage up to 3, switch sheets, and now look at the transmission graph. It is a LOT longer than what it was before, and the difference it makes on the track is huge. It makes 6th and even 5th gear nearly redundant.

PD, look, just please stop treating us like kids, we know what we're doing with gears and I just don't need your fuss to fiddle around with our ratios. The better the engine gets the more the rpm, yes, but we also decrease the top power to meet the regulation limit it makes absolutely no bloody difference to the top speed we get to. I figured this out on 2nd week of playing GT5 last year, even me, a then-noob could figure it out all by myself.

Now, I have to restart all the testing I did. Now whenever I'm testing I won't be 100% sure the car has the right ratio the tuner intended. I'm done with this game. I thought I could play this till pCARS comes out on PC but I'm not sure I'll be able to wait.:indiff:
 
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Bowtie-muscle
Can anyone else check the trans issue that @JujiroMatsuda has incountered. I have never noticed this.
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Engine tuning increase max rpm / redline, it's the same as in real life, cars with upgraded high lift camshaft and custom ECU with say 9000rpm instead stock 8000rpm will have different max speed on gear change, the gear ratio is still the same, but the engine revs higher :) Almost like fitting bigger wheels, but not really the same :D

GT5 and GT6 are correct, the gear ratio of stock transmission do not change, but the speed graph should change to account for higher engine rev range.

I may not be correct, but that's what I know.
 
Bowtie-muscle
Can anyone else check the trans issue that @JujiroMatsuda has incountered. I have never noticed this.
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The change won't be apparent unless you switch the sheets back n forth. By using this metod, stage tuning 1 and 3 will have different ratio, BUT if you reset the transmission for the latter car, it will obtain the shorter gearing of the former, while RETAINING extra RPM. donpost's car with reset transmission had massive advantage from previous cars, his car was the only one to get into 6th gear on straight, and accelerated out of corners much better. Of course, no fault of his own, it's the way PD programmed.

If the max RPM changed it shouldn't influence all gears. All it should do, on a graph, the horizontal rev limit line should be pushed upward, closer to the ceiling, and whatever the gap from conventional engine will be the advantage (of having extra RPM) but the gear lines should never move left(shorter) or right(longer). Stage 1 engine cruising at 100kph in 6th gear at, say 3000rpm, while stage 3 engine would be revving lower, 2700rpm. Now, that's two different cars.
 
The fix may be installing all engine parts first, then resetting the transmission? Probably not able to switch between sheets without a fresh transmission set up.
 
DolHaus
If you are tuning a car that has different parts then you need to tune them separately rather than in bulk. Always fit power parts first, then tune the transmission.
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Yeah I'm well aware of that but it never occurred to me the RPM boost would change the ratio of STOCK GEARBOX IT CAME WITH. IF this were IRL, if my civic revs rather too high from my liking on highway cruising at 100kph on 5th gear, all I have to do is to fit racing exhaust(or whatever that boosts top rpm) and it now magically revs lower at same given speed, saves me fuel. You get what I'm trying to say?
 
JujiroMatsuda
Yeah I'm well aware of that but it never occurred to me the RPM boost would change the ratio of STOCK GEARBOX IT CAME WITH. IF this were IRL, if my civic revs rather too high from my liking on highway cruising at 100kph on 5th gear, all I have to do is to fit racing exhaust(or whatever that boosts top rpm) and it now magically revs lower at same given speed, saves me fuel. You get what I'm trying to say?
Click to expand...

You need at least, tune the ECU to increase rev range, only fitting a racing exhaust won't do good if the engine is not tuned for the new setup. I think the 100kmh at 5th will still be at the same rpm, unless the car has bigger wheel or gear ratio has been changed.

Do the numbers on stock transmission changed when engine tuning is applied ? I don't recall that ever happen, installing power upgrades that increase engine rpm range should only alter the max speed on each gear : confused:
 
Bowtie-muscle
Can anyone else check the trans issue that @JujiroMatsuda has incountered. I have never noticed this.
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I can only get this to happen when there`s an exhaust upgrade aswell??!! seems very odd.......
Motor City Hami
The fix may be installing all engine parts first, then resetting the transmission? Probably not able to switch between sheets without a fresh transmission set up.
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Seems to be the solution. :)
 
JujiroMatsuda
Yeah I'm well aware of that but it never occurred to me the RPM boost would change the ratio of STOCK GEARBOX IT CAME WITH. IF this were IRL, if my civic revs rather too high from my liking on highway cruising at 100kph on 5th gear, all I have to do is to fit racing exhaust(or whatever that boosts top rpm) and it now magically revs lower at same given speed, saves me fuel. You get what I'm trying to say?
Click to expand...
As @Ridox2JZGTE says, when fitting new parts you need to alter the ECU to make any real difference. If a race tuning garage (which GT simulates) was doing the mods then they would retune the ECU after every parts change to accommodate greater air intake and exhaust potential. (Heads up to the boy racers, fitting a fancy air filter and fat exhaust will actually lose you power, it confuses the stock ECU and makes it run in Safe mode).
As for the gearing, I imagine it lengthens the gear slightly so it can accommodate the extra revs, I'm no expert on transmissions so I can't really give you a better explanation than that.
 
JujiroMatsuda
Yeah I'm well aware of that but it never occurred to me the RPM boost would change the ratio of STOCK GEARBOX IT CAME WITH. IF this were IRL, if my civic revs rather too high from my liking on highway cruising at 100kph on 5th gear, all I have to do is to fit racing exhaust(or whatever that boosts top rpm) and it now magically revs lower at same given speed, saves me fuel. You get what I'm trying to say?
Click to expand...

Oh. I think I get it now. Correct. Why would changing power parts also change the stock gears. That's really stupid.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
You need at least, tune the ECU to increase rev range, only fitting a racing exhaust won't do good if the engine is not tuned for the new setup. I think the 100kmh at 5th will still be at the same rpm, unless the car has bigger wheel or gear ratio has been changed.

Do the numbers on stock transmission changed when engine tuning is applied ? I don't recall that ever happen, installing power upgrades that increase engine rpm range should only alter the max speed on each gear : confused:
Click to expand...

You know I said "whatever that boosts top rpm" I don't care what it takes to boosts top rpm IRL whatever it takes do it my point is, as your top rpm IN REAL LIFE gets higher, your trusty old geabox shouldn't feel "heavier" the minute you done that modification. But this game does. "The engine used to rev too high, 3200rpm on 5th gear at 100kph but now it revs lot lower, 2500rpm" - now this is BS and the only way to achieve that is to change the physical final gear or the 5th gear cog.

I've done some further testing. OK, I'll eat my word on stock transmission does different speed givien different engine tuning. Although the graph shows drastic difference but actual speed seems the same. The following is the test I dd on X Route.

A. Stock engine, switch transmission back n forth, set stock transmission, keep at 4000rpm on 4th gear. Speed = 105kph.
B. Fully tuned engine, switch transmission back n forth, set stock transmission, keep at 4000rpm on 4th gear. Speed = 105kph.
Conclusion: Both car produced the same speed.

HOWEVER! If you use the 6speed fixed ratio GB, the results are:

A. Stock engine, switch transmission back n forth, set 6speed GB, keep at 4000rpm on 4th gear. Speed = 92kph
B. Fully tuned engine, switch transmission back n forth, set 6speed GB, keep at 4000rpm on 4th gear. Speed = 84kph.

You might laugh at that there's only 8kph difference but at higher the rpm the more the difference- higher the gear, higher the rpm, the more the difference.

I'm a skeptic so I'm willing to change my mind at any point my finding proves false.
 
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@DolHaus Do you have any ideas or solutions? Seems to be that more than 1 car needs to be used for testing. With similar power upgrades on each different car? Would that not blur the results and keep tunes as they were intended?

Forgive me if that 1st part didn't sound right, just a question not a shot.
 
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Simple answer is Redline. Any power mods that change rev limit will alter gearing IF you make a change.

Think about it max speed and red line go together. To hit same "max speed" with different red line takes different gears.

This is why you need to apply all upgrades before setting in the settings.
 

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