FITT Miata Tuning Challenge

[Ronald6]

@Bowtie-muscle : Sometimes a simple tune calls for a simple explanation. Simple isn't a bad thing. The best tune I've ever driven (by MCH, a Subaru on GT5) I had to pull a description out and force myself to expound on it.

Your tune worked very well and the 3 parts of a corner I usually describe (entry, mid, exit) with your car they transitioned fairly smoothly from one to the next.

Its hard for me to find a good balance in my descriptions between asking for more agility and more grip. I might say that one car slips in mid corner too much (like yours) but what is really happening is the car has enough extra power to overpower. If it didn't have the extra power then it wouldn't be as fast.

More often than not the length of a review has to do with my (disturbed) state of mind at the time.

 

[praiano63]

Regarding the coming game update. Let's wait and see. Through all of GT5 and GT6 so far, every game update was met with wild speculation from the community about ghost or secret physics updates from PD. Every single update! So this one will be no different. Frankly, I do not buy that there were any changes to physics during the Muscle Car challenge. At least I saw no testing that proved any differences. My own testing with my entered car showed that I could run the exact same lap times pre and post update. So this one will be the same. The community will "feel" something different, but noone will post concrete results.

I will need some pretty sound test results to compare in order to make any changes to the competition or before I allow any re-tuning. I guess my best advice for now is that testers should try to avoid splitting a class down the middle with some testing before and some after the update. Do all of your testing for one class either before or after the update. Since we are working with average lap times, if a driver tests all cars under the same conditions, things should balance out.

You can buy it my friend.
Brakes change a lot , only the brakes. Low numbers or high numbers was the same regarding braking distance before 1.04, after , low brake numbers was making you brake earlier ,less braking power, around 20 or 30 meters before for the first double left of laguna after the starting line straight.
100 % sure.
I have made test and you can still do one. Just test my car with the BB Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71 this 1/1 and a post 1.04 BB 8/8 for example.
Check and make your own opinion.
If it wasn´t this , i would have sticked to the chevy for sure.

 

[Xiamoto]

Street Touring Roadster Testing Results – Mazda Roaster RS (NC) '07

Track: Matterhorn Rotenboden 2.2 miles
Tester: kapnk006
Tester Controller Setup: Logitech GT Pro Wheel, 200 degree rotation, manual transmission
Controller Sensitivity:4
All aids off except ABS: 1
Test Methodology: Qty (2) x 10 lap sessions per car, 20 laps total per car


ACSR421
Fastest Lap:1.43.831
DC: 9
Comments: My favorite tune of the test, it just felt right for me. Its in the top 4 cars for fastest cornering speeds but runs only mid-pack for straight line speed which left it out of a Fastest Lap Podium position. Gets a bit more airborne than others in the first corner chicane and at the downhill "jump". Those are minimal issues. Able to trail brake beautifully in places on the track where no other cars could, but the braking at the bottom of the big hill may have also kept this car form achieving the #1 or #2 fast lap in my test.

DolHaus
Fastest Lap: 1.45.467
DC: 7
Comments:I really enjoyed the car but struggled with it to run faster cornering speeds. The rear tires break loose on corner exit acceleration that aided in steering which I liked, but as a result this car has a longer learning curve than most of the rest to drive fast. I think with more laps of practice I could drive this car much faster.

donpost
Fastest Lap: 1.44.151
DC: 8
Comments: One of the fastest cars in cornering speed but midpack in straightline speed which prevented it from getting on the Podium. I Really am impressed with the cars ability to run fast lap times when it doesn’t seem like you're going all that fast, this might compete for the #1fast lap time in my test but it just didn’t have enough straightline speed. Great solid tune though for less skilled drivers who want to drive fast, I would prefer a bit more loose feel in order to steer it with the throttle a bit more (although I know that would slow it down). Had a bit of understeer in the right hand high speed sweeper.


JackWilson
Fastest Lap: 1.43.475
DC: 8
Comments: Incredibly fast in both straight line and cornering speed. Takes work and concentration to drive fast but rewarding when you do. Crisp steering response in the slow corners. I maybe would like a bit more trail braking capability and more braking stability. Braking instability was most noticeable entering the left hand turn at the bottom of the "hill", seemed like a bit more braking power might have put in in the #1 lap time position. Fantastic tune however, congrats!

jtqmopar
Fastest Lap: 1.45.638
DC: 8
Comments: Has good cornering speed compared to many others tested. I really liked the ability to steer with the throttle, but I personally would prefer a bit more trail braking ability. Straight line speed was its biggest issue, but overall a safe middle of the pack ride.

NEWDRIVER2
Fastest Lap: 1.45.886
DC: 8
Comments: Really like this tune. Has crisp steering response in slow speed corners, gearing seems to operate in a great part of the powerband. It has understeer a bit on high speed corner entry, but able to steer with trailbraking and throttle which suits my driving style.

Otaliema
Fastest Lap: 1.44.448
DC: 7
Comments: Really like this tune. Has crisp steering response in slow speed corners, gearing seems to operate in a great part of the powerband. It has understeer a bit on high speed corner entry, but able to steer with trailbraking and throttle which suits my driving style. CORRECTED RESULTS: One of the fastest in straight line speeds but I was not able to keep corner speeds fast enough to compete for the #1 fast lap time position. Definitely had a longer learning curve to figure out how to drive fast, but I really enjoyed the car once I did. Had tiny understeer just about everywhere, so I maybe would have liked it a bit more loose with a bit of trailbrake ability. Braking stability was a bit challenging at the bottom of the big hill. Nice job overall.

Onboy123
Fastest Lap: 1.43.083
DC: 7
Comments: One of fastest cars in straight line speed but it's speed in the corners was slower than 3 or 4 other cars. If this car can be made faster in the corners without giving up straight line speed it will dominate it's class in any race in any room. This car fits my driving style, braking was the biggest challenge and really tough to learn to control at the bottom of "the hill". In the end I got it stopping good enough to run the fastest lap time. Well done Onboy123, congrats!

praiano63
Fastest Lap: 1.44.150
DC: 7
Comments: One of the fastest in straight line speed but I couldn't maintain speed in the corners to contend for the Podium. Had a tiny amount of understeer in low and hi speed turns and some braking instability at the bottom of the long hill prevented me from getting this one on the podium. Gets thru the 1st chicane real well. Would like to be able to steer with the throttle a bit more.

Ronald6
Fastest Lap: 1.45.008
DC: 6
Comments: A solid tune with an unusual gearing that worked extremely well. But oh this car was frustrating! It is capable of running with the fastest cars, but I just could not control braking it at the bottom of the long downhill straight. You have to have it pointed perfectly straight before you launch it off "the downhill ramp" and if you do.....the braking was just too unstable at the bottom to make the left turn fast enough to keep up with the #1 and #2 lap time leaders. A solid performer however, a bit of understeer in 2nd gear corners but a quick shift to 1st helped rotate the car to compensate for my driving errors. I really prefer a car that steers a bit more with the brakes and throttle...but that's just me. This car has great braking control everywhere else except at the bottom of the big hill.

ugabugaz
Fastest Lap: 1.45.757
DC: 6
Comments: Fun to drive. Achieved the fastest cornering speeds in my test, but it also had the slowest straight line speed. This car that I have nicknamed "flying low" handled the first chicane and big downhill jumps the best. It just did not get airborne like its competitors. A very safe, easy, super stable, super easy to drive car, but it was slow on speed. A good safe tune with a "Jekyll and Hyde" personality to remember.

xande1959
Fastest Lap: 1.46.838
DC: 6
Comments: Turns well in slow speed corners. A very challenging car to drive and required a long learning curve to overcome it's challenges and find out where to get some speed. Seemed very underpowered. The car turns real well in the lowest speed (like under the bridge) corners and was able to take the high speed right hand sweeper on the downhill wide open which left time to enjoy the mountain views. The car trail braked much more in 3rd gear than 2nd which was a challenge to use and predict.

Motor City Hami
Fastest Lap: 1.43.648
DC: 7
Comments: This car is amazing. It has slightly above average straight line and cornering speeds but you can drive it with so much confidence you're able to push it past other faster cars and onto the podium. I noticed slight understeer on corner entry at times. 6th gear was hitting the rev limiter just before the "jump" on the downhill section which may have resulted in a 3 mph slower speed there and prevented it from achieving the #1 fastest lap in my test.

PKS 80
Fastest Lap: 1.45.556
DC: 7
Comments: Car turns crisp and I like it's feel. I was able to steer with throttle a bit which I like. Only issue was it doesn't like to be airborne through the 1st chicane and MUST be pointed straight as you launch off of the "jump" into the last dreaded downhill straight. If the car is not settled BEFORE you get airborne your landing back to earth will not have a good outcome. I personally would prefer a bit more trial braking ability even if it means the car would run slower laps.

CONCLUSION: I also reviewed each competitors fastest lap replay and recorded actual corner speeds at 11 locations on the track. Each car was then given a ranking (1-14) based on the average speed achieved. Using the replays, I also recorded the fastest speed that each car achieved during its fast lap at 3 straightaway locations on the track. Each car was then given a ranking (1-14) based on the average speed it achieved at these 3 locations. The following graph summarizes these objective speed rankings as well as other subjective data in the test. Generally speaking, the more blue the graph appears, then the more overall favorable the car was in my test.

 

[DolHaus]

Street Touring Roadster Testing Results – Mazda Roaster RS (NC) '07

Track: Matterhorn Rotenboden 2.2 miles
Tester: kapnk006
Tester Controller Setup: Logitech GT Pro Wheel, 200 degree rotation, manual transmission
Controller Sensitivity:4
All aids off except ABS: 1
Test Methodology: Qty (2) x 10 lap sessions per car, 20 laps total per car


ACSR421
Fastest Lap:1.43.831
DC: 9
Comments: My favorite tune of the test, it just felt right for me. Its in the top 4 cars for fastest cornering speeds but runs only mid-pack for straight line speed which left it out of a Fastest Lap Podium position. Gets a bit more airborne than others in the first corner chicane and at the downhill "jump". Those are minimal issues. Able to trail brake beautifully in places on the track where no other cars could, but the braking at the bottom of the big hill may have also kept this car form achieving the #1 or #2 fast lap in my test.

DolHaus
Fastest Lap: 1.45.467
DC: 7
Comments:I really enjoyed the car but struggled with it to run faster cornering speeds. The rear tires break loose on corner exit acceleration that aided in steering which I liked, but as a result this car has a longer learning curve than most of the rest to drive fast. I think with more laps of practice I could drive this car much faster.

donpost
Fastest Lap: 1.44.151
DC: 8
Comments: One of the fastest cars in cornering speed but midpack in straightline speed which prevented it from getting on the Podium. I Really am impressed with the cars ability to run fast lap times when it doesn’t seem like you're going all that fast, this might compete for the #1fast lap time in my test but it just didn’t have enough straightline speed. Great solid tune though for less skilled drivers who want to drive fast, I would prefer a bit more loose feel in order to steer it with the throttle a bit more (although I know that would slow it down). Had a bit of understeer in the right hand high speed sweeper.


JackWilson
Fastest Lap: 1.43.475
DC: 8
Comments: Incredibly fast in both straight line and cornering speed. Takes work and concentration to drive fast but rewarding when you do. Crisp steering response in the slow corners. I maybe would like a bit more trail braking capability and more braking stability. Braking instability was most noticeable entering the left hand turn at the bottom of the "hill", seemed like a bit more braking power might have put in in the #1 lap time position. Fantastic tune however, congrats!

jtqmopar
Fastest Lap: 1.45.638
DC: 8
Comments: Has good cornering speed compared to many others tested. I really liked the ability to steer with the throttle, but I personally would prefer a bit more trail braking ability. Straight line speed was its biggest issue, but overall a safe middle of the pack ride.

NEWDRIVER2
Fastest Lap: 1.45.886
DC: 8
Comments: Really like this tune. Has crisp steering response in slow speed corners, gearing seems to operate in a great part of the powerband. It has understeer a bit on high speed corner entry, but able to steer with trailbraking and throttle which suits my driving style.

Otaliema
Fastest Lap: 1.44.448
DC: 7
Comments: Really like this tune. Has crisp steering response in slow speed corners, gearing seems to operate in a great part of the powerband. It has understeer a bit on high speed corner entry, but able to steer with trailbraking and throttle which suits my driving style.

Onboy123
Fastest Lap: 1.43.083
DC: 7
Comments: One of fastest cars in straight line speed but it's speed in the corners was slower than 3 or 4 other cars. If this car can be made faster in the corners without giving up straight line speed it will dominate it's class in any race in any room. This car fits my driving style, braking was the biggest challenge and really tough to learn to control at the bottom of "the hill". In the end I got it stopping good enough to run the fastest lap time. Well done Onboy123, congrats!

praiano63
Fastest Lap: 1.44.150
DC: 7
Comments: One of the fastest in straight line speed but I couldn't maintain speed in the corners to contend for the Podium. Had a tiny amount of understeer in low and hi speed turns and some braking instability at the bottom of the long hill prevented me from getting this one on the podium. Gets thru the 1st chicane real well. Would like to be able to steer with the throttle a bit more.

Ronald6
Fastest Lap: 1.45.008
DC: 6
Comments: A solid tune with an unusual gearing that worked extremely well. But oh this car was frustrating! It is capable of running with the fastest cars, but I just could not control braking it at the bottom of the long downhill straight. You have to have it pointed perfectly straight before you launch it off "the downhill ramp" and if you do.....the braking was just too unstable at the bottom to make the left turn fast enough to keep up with the #1 and #2 lap time leaders. A solid performer however, a bit of understeer in 2nd gear corners but a quick shift to 1st helped rotate the car to compensate for my driving errors. I really prefer a car that steers a bit more with the brakes and throttle...but that's just me. This car has great braking control everywhere else except at the bottom of the big hill.

ugabugaz
Fastest Lap: 1.45.757
DC: 6
Comments: Fun to drive. Achieved the fastest cornering speeds in my test, but it also had the slowest straight line speed. This car that I have nicknamed "flying low" handled the first chicane and big downhill jumps the best. It just did not get airborne like its competitors. A very safe, easy, super stable, super easy to drive car, but it was slow on speed. A good safe tune with a "Jekyll and Hyde" personality to remember.

xande1959
Fastest Lap: 1.46.838
DC: 6
Comments: Turns well in slow speed corners. A very challenging car to drive and required a long learning curve to overcome it's challenges and find out where to get some speed. Seemed very underpowered. The car turns real well in the lowest speed (like under the bridge) corners and was able to take the high speed right hand sweeper on the downhill wide open which left time to enjoy the mountain views. The car trail braked much more in 3rd gear than 2nd which was a challenge to use and predict.

Motor City Hami
Fastest Lap: 1.43.648
DC: 7
Comments: This car is amazing. It has slightly above average straight line and cornering speeds but you can drive it with so much confidence you're able to push it past other faster cars and onto the podium. I noticed slight understeer on corner entry at times. 6th gear was hitting the rev limiter just before the "jump" on the downhill section which may have resulted in a 3 mph slower speed there and prevented it from achieving the #1 fastest lap in my test.

PKS 80
Fastest Lap: 1.45.556
DC: 7
Comments: Car turns crisp and I like it's feel. I was able to steer with throttle a bit which I like. Only issue was it doesn't like to be airborne through the 1st chicane and MUST be pointed straight as you launch off of the "jump" into the last dreaded downhill straight. If the car is not settled BEFORE you get airborne your landing back to earth will not have a good outcome. I personally would prefer a bit more trial braking ability even if it means the car would run slower laps.

CONCLUSION: I also reviewed each competitors fastest lap replay and recorded actual corner speeds at 11 locations on the track. Each car was then given a ranking (1-14) based on the average speed achieved. Using the replays, I also recorded the fastest speed that each car achieved during its fast lap at 3 straightaway locations on the track. Each car was then given a ranking (1-14) based on the average speed it achieved at these 3 locations. The following graph summarizes these objective speed rankings as well as other subjective data in the test. Generally speaking, the more blue the graph appears, then the more overall favorable the car was in my test.

Thank you for your review, very informative and clear. I like your graph things, reminds me of Wipeout 2097 lol

 

[Motor City Hami]

You can buy it my friend.
Brakes change a lot , only the brakes. Low numbers or high numbers was the same regarding braking distance before 1.04, after , low brake numbers was making you brake earlier ,less braking power, around 20 or 30 meters before for the first double left of laguna after the starting line straight.
100 % sure.
I have made test and you can still do one. Just test my car with the BB Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71 this 1/1 and a post 1.04 BB 8/8 for example.
Check and make your own opinion.
If it wasn´t this , i would have sticked to the chevy for sure.

If 1/1 was the same as 8/8 then why did you not leave things at 5/5 for your entry?

So since I did not try to game the system with my entry, and entered brake balance more in the middle, that is why you say I did not see a difference? With that logic, my GT40 should have gotten faster post update.

 

[Ronald6]

@kapnk006 : Thanks for the review. I'm sorry you found the transmission difficult. My biggest worry with that tune was overtuning it to fit my style too much.

The graphs are fantastic. Im a visual person and I get more out of the graphs than I do a review. Together = maximum effect.

 

[Motor City Hami]

@kapnk006 I second Ronald's praise of the graphs. Very cool way to look at the tunes.

 

[Motor City Hami]

http://farm4.static


Hi iainoflo,
yes I understand that our view of our testers is very useful to help you progress in your adjustment
I assure you, your Touring Car 500PP is very good, nice work, you are more talented than me for that 👍

So here is my result of Driver's Choice for Touring Car Silverstone 500PP:

-Donpost => DC 7
-Iainoflo => DC 8
-KapnK006 => DC 7
-KrenKme => DC 6
-Otaliema => DC 6
-Praiano63 => DC 10
-Xande1959 => DC 7
-MCHami => DC 9
Shaunm80 => DC 8

Driver's Choice for Street Roadster NC'07 Matterhorn 450 PP:

-Dolhaus => DC 6
-Donpost => DC6
-JTQMopar => DC 6
-MCHami => DC 10
-NewDriver => DC 8
-Otaliema => DC 9
-Onboy123 => DC 8
-PKS80 => DC 7
-Praiano63 => DC 8
-Ronald6 => DC 9
-Xande1959 => DC 9
-ASCR421 => DC 8
-JackWilson => DC 8
-Ugabugaz => DC 8

again sorry for the forgotten
I personally do not like to vote, the result speaks them even
good day

Did you also post lap times for the Touring Car class? I may have missed them.

 

[iainoflo85]

Did you also post lap times for the Touring Car class? I may have missed them.

Here Hami: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-one-week-to-test.303511/page-22#post-9425485

 

[praiano63]

If 1/1 was the same as 8/8 then why did you not leave things at 5/5 for your entry?

So since I did not try to game the system with my entry, and entered brake balance more in the middle, that is why you say I did not see a difference? With that logic, my GT40 should have gotten faster post update.

Before 1.04 there was only one difference between 1/1 and 5/5 or 8/8
If you had the same braking power with any of the numbers, it was not the same for the input.
1/1 was alowing to modulate perfectly across all the pedal travel the braking power. That was the only reason i usd this low number. After 1.04 , i just loose around 1 second around the track with this setting. Again, i know this because i´ve tested it. Anybody can do this.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Results Roadster Touring Car Silverstone :
again a very nice lot with great tuning 👍
it was a real pleasure !!!
no aids, ABS 1, manual, DS3

This image is no longer visible.

 

[DolHaus]

Before 1.04 there was only one difference between 1/1 and 5/5 or 8/8
If you had the same braking power with any of the numbers, it was not the same for the input.
1/1 was alowing to modulate perfectly across all the pedal travel the braking power. That was the only reason i usd this low number. After 1.04 , i just loose around 1 second around the track with this setting. Again, i know this because i´ve tested it. Anybody can do this.

What is an accurate way to test brakes? Are there any particular tracks or markers you use? I guess its a case of picking a spot and hitting the brakes at a certain speed but I can't think of a good place to gauge accuracy

 

[DigitalBaka]

Spec Miata completed with results for @DozUk and @Ridox2JZGTE . Let me know if I missed anyone or a score somewhere. I think I will try to bang out the touring cars next. Hopefully that will go faster than switching cars and parts so often.

I can't remember when the update hit before - but I remember Praiano complaining about not being able to change his brakes because the update changed braking physics.

The update hit just after testing started as I recall, hence why I did not allow the change as a few folks had started. In hindsight it wouldn't have killed anyone but there had been so many changes to that point I wanted to stick to something and go.

That could be plausible, and yeah, the community features would then cause no change, I was just wondering how the community wanted to handle this for this challenge. I know that if there were physics changes that affect us, @DigitalBaka would probably have to retest some cars because of it. But like we have been saying, we don't know what it is and what will change, so I guess my point is that it is now out there.

I finished up the class I was in the middle of so I should be fine. I will wait until after the update to start the next just in case.

 

[Otaliema]

What is an accurate way to test brakes? Are there any particular tracks or markers you use? I guess its a case of picking a spot and hitting the brakes at a certain speed but I can't think of a good place to gauge accuracy

Proly SSRX would be the best, accelerate to a set speed hold it than hit the brakes at a given distance maker and note when you come to a full stop. And for the sake of being constant on the test use 100% brake on all the tests even if you get lock up.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

SCCA Improved Touring Miata Tuners

All cars painted Solid : Lime Lite.
All cars have the same sized wheels as the tune (+1 inch are required in this shootout), BBS RS, painted the same color as the car.

Settings:
All aids off, ABS 1
Grip: Real
Controller: DFGT
FFB: 7
Controller Sensitivity: Irrelevant!
Offline, Arcade Mode, Time Trial, Apricot Hill


Ridox2JZGTE MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
I tried this car first, but after a couple of laps I gave up trying to learn this track with this car. I'll test it last.
-- later --
1:36.380, 3
My grandmother raised me to believe, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Anything at all.

Thank you for not saying anything, I don't know what your problem really is, as I recall in the past you always have trouble driving my tune, so I don't expect much When I built the tune, I asked my friend to test it for me and give feedback, he used DS3 and ABS 1, yet he consistently did low 1:34s on the final tune posted and said the car is okay, and I also tested it with ABS 0 and managed almost flat 1:34s in first 3 laps.

After a few cars you can begin to anticipate what the settings are based on the how the car handles. Then focus on what you got wrong. If you anticipated strong spring settings but instead the tune had strong dampers, why did you get it wrong?

You can't tune till you know how to drive. Knowledge is power. The larger your vocabulary the better your tunes will be.

Could you elaborate more please, I have limited vocabulary.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

@Lionheart2113 Thank you 👍
@seb15000 Thank you 👍
@backnfourth Thank you 👍
@Ronald6 Thank you 👍
@kapnk006 Thank you 👍

Thank you guys for the review . I really happy with my time and DC . I hope I could make that car faster but I made it drivable , I will try my best next time .

@Ronald6 I like your word poise 👍
@kapnk006 good to hear it feet your driving style and I like your word crisp steering 👍

Have a good day every one

ND

 

[Golyadkin]

A

Might I suggest some, lol. These are oranges I use a lot, you might like;

Monaco Orange, Chevy (69 vette)
Vitamin C, Plymouth (70 Superbird)
Arancio, Lamberghini (74 Countach)

Notice how I tend to like the older colors?
Even the Hemi Orange is antique Dodge, lol.

Oh, quick edit;
For a mere 51k, you can also pick up "Chrome Orange" from Lotus, (Elise '11), it's a kickin' color, but it is NOT an actual 'chrome' category too-shiny color. Very sweet orange.

Another orange I liked/discovered when painting a Zonda R in GT5 was the Arancio Calypso Metallizato available via one of the standard model FIATs (Punto, perhaps?).

Also, and more important, is it possible to sign up as a tester still? Tuning/testing has long been the biggest draw of the Gran Turismo series for me.

 

[Ronald6]

Lionheart2113

Time: 1:34.638 (second slowest time)
Drivers Choice: 7.0
The car was too tight for me from apex thru exit and had a high chance of locking up the brakes going into turn 1. I can only conclude that Ridox and I have 2 totally different driving styles/setups.



Iainoflo85

Time: 1'35.587 (second slowest time)

DC - 8

Nothing felt right about this car - it didn't do what I wanted it to, a lot of the time it did the opposite. Usual methods of braking in a straight line, then turn-in were not working, instead the best way to get through the corners was to brake while turning-in downshift or lift the brakes at the apex and this often made me spin-out until I got used to it. Sometimes the whole tyres locked up at the chicane, sometimes just the front tyre would lock up under braking both times so the brakes were too high front and back. It just didn't sit right with my style.
Ran it again at the end and it felt fine except for some slight understeer and a bit of oversteer at the apex of the hairpin, but other than that it felt okay. It just wasn't that fast.


Jules283

Time-1.36.178 (slowest by almost a second)
DC-6
Good stability due to understeer which can force a throttle lift leading to oversteer-the understeer is mainly on corner entry-excellent traction.


Oteliema

Laptime;1:37.770 Drivers Choice; 7 (second slowest time)

Impressions of the tune; I found this car very easy to control but at the same time I had a hard time keeping the rotation under control in the high speed corners I found myself sliding a lot. Careful use of throttle is required to keep the tail in check in the high speed and very low speed corners on the track. It did what I told it too without hesitation, Other than it wanting to kick the tail out, I only found it to have a little bit of understeer at low speeds otherwise this was a great drive on the track.


Seb15000

1:35.519, 7 (slowest by over a second)
Brake and gearbox STOCK? Damage, good base, nice car and good grip but not for attack.

##########

What's my problem? Autism/Aspergers.
What's yours?

So far only one driver has gotten down to 1:35.xxx, and its not a low 1:35.xxx by any stretch.

For your vocabulary:

Here are words that describe your car:
Contrivance, disparity, confusing, slow, chaotic.

Here are words that do not describe your car:
Smooth, balanced, accurate, predictable, relaxing.

I do have one pleasant thing to say about your tune:
It was the best you've done so far by far. It was not nearly as confusing as any of your other tunes. There were actually one or two other tunes in SCCA ITC that were almost as confusing and unbalanced. But I could get them to perform, with yours I couldn't. Judging by the times others are putting down they found your tune equally difficult.

Sir Jackie Stewart once said that the one trait that all talented drivers have in common is smoothness. That's not an exact quote, but along those lines. I live by that quote when it comes to driving. On GT5 there were some contrivances that drivers could have used to make the GT5 cars behave in ways a car never could in real life, and be faster at it. The most glaring example to me was jerking the wheel in a snap movement at corner entrance. A lot of drivers complained when GT6 came out, their contrivances didn't work anymore, they were far slower and had to actually drive correctly (ok, more correctly, GT6 isn't perfect). I was slightly faster with GT6.
Your tunes have felt to me to be the opposite of smooth. My assumption was you like diving into a corner, brake HARD, rotate FAST, get straight and ACCELERATE. You don't really corner, you try to eliminate the corner from the track and make it a series of drag races.
I'm probably wrong and my Aspergers is blowing your tunes way out of proportion. I'd love to see some evidence to the contrary.

I'd like to work on a tune with you. I think we could learn a lot from each other. Our opposing styles obviously work for each of us. I'd love to know how you make your tunes work. You're obviously faster with them even if most others aren't. If we could learn to drive like each other then we would both be faster.
What do you say? Project?

 

[Onboy123]

WOW. ALL DAT FEEDBACK. MY ALERTS BOX EXPLODED. Right, this'll need some time to respond to.

Oh right, if anyone wants to know where I went, I fell asleep for a week and woke up today.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ronald6 : That was much better, I don't mind the description, at least there's something.

You make all the wrong assumption, I drive without any aids, if I were to drive by brake hard, rotate fast, get straight and accelerate, I wouldn't survive first corner of Apricot Hill. Yet I can do 1:34s easily without drama, how I did it ? I trail brake into the apex, only apply full braking power for a few moment on high speed braking, smooth steering on the big esses, lift off early for a split second to maintain balance when changing direction from left to right, modulate the throttle on the apex of big long left curve that leads to the long straight ( full gas on exit ), navigate the last chicane with slight dab on the brakes and steer smoothly on exit. You can read my tune co driver notes about the speed on almost every corner at Apricot Hill.

Lionheart123 managed 1:34s with my car at Apricot Hill and he's on DS3 pad + auto transmission. The car won't be contender for lap time champ, I know this from beginning since I used stock gearbox, real life weight distribution, added camber, no racing brake, and spec miata spring rate. The understeer and tight issue are more to driving style as I don't have issues with the car. My ABS 1 co driver also surprisingly didn't mention understeer, except saying 1st corner and the hairpin are tricky with the car.

Could you describe confusing ? Does it understeeer or oversteer without warning ? Do you use trail braking when driving ? I think the car is not compatible with your driving style

I need to look for a new co driver that uses ABS 1 ...and on a wheel ... I have also a drift car replica need testing on a wheel with no ABS

 

[praiano63]

What is an accurate way to test brakes? Are there any particular tracks or markers you use? I guess its a case of picking a spot and hitting the brakes at a certain speed but I can't think of a good place to gauge accuracy

This is how i´ve tested the brakes day 16 of december before 1.04, it´s a very accurate method.

Hello FITT people and Co.
I don't have a lot of time to make test because i just can't stop driving and tuning....

But, i did a strange discovery over brakes. Here is my experience and first the procedure.

1-Take any car, road, racing, with downforce or not, fast ,slow, heavy , light........... the way you want.

2- Go to test drive at stage route X

3- Start normally and let the car hit the limiter in 2cd gear. This will allow to modulate a equal speed for all test to come .

4- When you pass the starting line ,shift in 3rd gear , always full gas, and grow more speed till the 2000 meters shifting at read zone limit.

5-Then when you pass under the 2000 m gate exactly on the line, brake everything you can, full brakes, downshifting till the car stop.

6-Now, just count the white strips of the track , till the next yellow mark , to know exactly the braking distance.

Repeat everytime the same procedure. Easy.

My results with all the cars i've tested.

For Brake balance 0/0 - 10/10 - 0/10 - 10/0 the braking distance is exactly the same.

More than this, If you instal the racing brakes kit , you still have the same braking distance.

My conclusions:

1- Increasing the number don't increase the braking potential.

2-The brake balance is not more or less brake in front or at the rear. It just act together with the course of the braking pedal. If you have a BB 0/10 for example and if you brake progressively, the braking force will come first at the rear at the beginning of the course and after at the front when full course of the pedal. The tendency at this moment is to generate oversteer during the time you'll press the pedal, with more or less inertia depending of your foot pressure.

3- Specially with racing tires, because more grip you have, more the effect is strong, i'll use a low BB like 2/0, like this the car don't upset when braking in a curve and you gain a better driving line control.


One more thing about racing tires and the way they take the grip.
I think PD increase the % of grip over the red & white stripes out corners and inside apex. Perhaps they did this to make safer some out corners when you reach the limits of the track.... It seems a bit more grippy yes at this moment.
It could be a good idea, but the problem is inside the corner ,when you reach the apex with your racing tires, and if you pass over the red & white strip, it will cause an excess of grip on the front interior tire, that will make you oversteer very strongly or even spin.

OK, That's all folks. I hope i was clear enough wit my bad english.
Have a good night everybody.

 

[seb15000]

This image is no longer visible.

Hi Hami,
I do not understand !
you do not want me to put this image on the results of my test ??
if this is the case, I'm sorry I should have actually asks for your permission

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hi Hami,
I do not understand !
you do not want me to put this image on the results of my test ??
if this is the case, I'm sorry I should have actually asks for your permission

The link is broken. It is not visible to me. Please re-link the image.

 

[Onboy123]

Onboy123 MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
1:33.512, 9
Ahhh, balance, subtly, grace. How about a few more adjectives: consistent, predictable, relaxing, power, controlled-drift. (Ok, that last one isn't one word, but I can't think of a single word that fits, so lemmealone.)
Braking is powerful but doesn't make the car too stable (understeer) or too loose (oversteer). BLOR can be a problem and takes a few laps to mediate. On later laps I found that I only braked for speed, not effect, throttle lift off gave me all the attitude adjustment I needed.
Corner entry is predictable and free of understeer unless I really @#$% up.
Mid corner is very good as long as I get the entry correct. I have to be careful at mid corner, the car at this point is only as good as the driver. The car will under or oversteer depending on the weight shift. Smooth inputs are a must.
Corner exit is a balancing act, mainly with the throttle, but steering is a large part still Steering isn't as sensitive as the throttle. Corner exit is a continuation of mid corner. Many other cars make it easy to distinguish between entry, mid and corner exit. This car is so dynamic its hard to tell where one part ends and another begins. The car also has enough non-LSD-limited power to drift out on exit. When I get a long sweeping corner right (and I know when I get it right, I can feel it {I become more relaxed} and my times improve) I'm usually under so much power and the car is so well balanced that both the front and rear tyres are all in a four wheel slight drift. Hella'fun.
My fastest lap (ten) I used a lot more drifting than I usually would. When shifting from one turning direction to the next the car would snap past the middle into a gentle weight catch on the other side. If you've ever done an egg toss, especially over 20 feet, then you have the idea.
I'm not sure I would like this tune for online racing, I like a more stable car when around other drivers. But for a TT tune its a car I'm comfortable getting comfortable with.
I limited myself to 12 laps, like all the other tunes I've done so far and will do, but I could spend hours trying to perfect my time in this car. It wouldn't be boring, it would be relaxing. Not quite a "mind control car," but only a few hairs widths away.

Oh my! This is actually a surprise. I tuned this car under the impression that I'd be appealing to the masses and compromising the experience for drivers like yourself. Turns out that was all pointless worrying on my part, since you seemed to enjoy yourself out there. Yes, the BLOR is a PITA, but IDC enough to fix it. Ok, that's enough shorthand. Glad it was to your tastes. 👍

…now don't drive another one of my cars, if your history with my cars from GT5 any reference, everything I tune after the first success will either make you break your arms or make you crap yourself.

Improved Touring Class
Onboy123

Time: 1'32.804

DC - 10

The best tune for this car by a long shot, for me at least. It's not only faster, but it's so smooth and can be made to be a little bit loose with the brake release oversteer. This is how I like my cars - where DaBomm's and jtq's versions of this car were more about smoothness and with a touch of understeer this was about smoothness but with a touch of oversteer. I felt the most comfortable driving this car and the lap time proved that.

DC 10? Ok, I can retire happy now. Well, I've yet to share a stage with Hami and fishy, but that'd be too greedy.

Not sure how you and Ron can find it relaxing to drive, I spent my entire lap fretting over how much grip the rear tires had. Either way, very good time there. Also, I think you're the first tester who's not been caught out by its high speed braking.

One thing though…you could have ended the review at the end of the first line, I wouldn't have minded.

Onboy123
Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB,J) '04
Time: 1:32.727
Drivers Choice: 9.5
Onboy, Onboy, Onboy....your tune put me in a difficult position. It was so close between yours and DaBomm's. This tune is practically flawless, you could point the tires and the rest of the car would follow. It was very responsive. The only thing was, just a tad squirrelly on the heavy braking. That's it...Awesome Job!

Dammit, so close to taking first as well! Like I said, I knew I'd get some complaints about the squirming when you braked hard. I'd love to have got that sorted…but frankly, I have no idea how without completely neutering the turn-in. Great time, nonetheless. 👍

Onboy123 Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04

Laptime;1:36.619 Drivers Choice; 6

Impressions of the tune; The car was quick, and responsive, it was stable under full throttle. It suffered from understeer issues and braking stability problems. I was able to stabilize the car under braking by using throttled braking, where I would input just a little 10-20% or so throttle while braking, once I started doing that the car became very stable and turned very well, I’m just not practiced at this driving style so it was hard for me to pull a clean lap. I also had corner exit issues if i got on the gas to fast i found myself spinning out.

Do you still remember where it understeered? I know it was ages ago when you did this test so I won't be surprised if you don't, but it's interesting to see that it's not the case with everyone. As for your solution to the braking problem…I have to admit, I didn't think of that. If you did an entire lap doing that, props to you for even trying.

As for the spin…well, it's a small car that's set up to drive like a bar of soap, the odd spin is inevitable.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Lionheart2113

Time: 1:34.638 (second slowest time)
Drivers Choice: 7.0
The car was too tight for me from apex thru exit and had a high chance of locking up the brakes going into turn 1. I can only conclude that Ridox and I have 2 totally different driving styles/setups.



Iainoflo85

Time: 1'35.587 (second slowest time)

DC - 8

Nothing felt right about this car - it didn't do what I wanted it to, a lot of the time it did the opposite. Usual methods of braking in a straight line, then turn-in were not working, instead the best way to get through the corners was to brake while turning-in downshift or lift the brakes at the apex and this often made me spin-out until I got used to it. Sometimes the whole tyres locked up at the chicane, sometimes just the front tyre would lock up under braking both times so the brakes were too high front and back. It just didn't sit right with my style.
Ran it again at the end and it felt fine except for some slight understeer and a bit of oversteer at the apex of the hairpin, but other than that it felt okay. It just wasn't that fast.


Jules283

Time-1.36.178 (slowest by almost a second)
DC-6
Good stability due to understeer which can force a throttle lift leading to oversteer-the understeer is mainly on corner entry-excellent traction.


Oteliema

Laptime;1:37.770 Drivers Choice; 7 (second slowest time)

Impressions of the tune; I found this car very easy to control but at the same time I had a hard time keeping the rotation under control in the high speed corners I found myself sliding a lot. Careful use of throttle is required to keep the tail in check in the high speed and very low speed corners on the track. It did what I told it too without hesitation, Other than it wanting to kick the tail out, I only found it to have a little bit of understeer at low speeds otherwise this was a great drive on the track.


Seb15000

1:35.519, 7 (slowest by over a second)
Brake and gearbox STOCK? Damage, good base, nice car and good grip but not for attack.

##########

What's my problem? Autism/Aspergers.
What's yours?

So far only one driver has gotten down to 1:35.xxx, and its not a low 1:35.xxx by any stretch.

For your vocabulary:

Here are words that describe your car:
Contrivance, disparity, confusing, slow, chaotic.

Here are words that do not describe your car:
Smooth, balanced, accurate, predictable, relaxing.

I do have one pleasant thing to say about your tune:
It was the best you've done so far by far. It was not nearly as confusing as any of your other tunes. There were actually one or two other tunes in SCCA ITC that were almost as confusing and unbalanced. But I could get them to perform, with yours I couldn't. Judging by the times others are putting down they found your tune equally difficult.

Sir Jackie Stewart once said that the one trait that all talented drivers have in common is smoothness. That's not an exact quote, but along those lines. I live by that quote when it comes to driving. On GT5 there were some contrivances that drivers could have used to make the GT5 cars behave in ways a car never could in real life, and be faster at it. The most glaring example to me was jerking the wheel in a snap movement at corner entrance. A lot of drivers complained when GT6 came out, their contrivances didn't work anymore, they were far slower and had to actually drive correctly (ok, more correctly, GT6 isn't perfect). I was slightly faster with GT6.
Your tunes have felt to me to be the opposite of smooth. My assumption was you like diving into a corner, brake HARD, rotate FAST, get straight and ACCELERATE. You don't really corner, you try to eliminate the corner from the track and make it a series of drag races.
I'm probably wrong and my Aspergers is blowing your tunes way out of proportion. I'd love to see some evidence to the contrary.

I'd like to work on a tune with you. I think we could learn a lot from each other. Our opposing styles obviously work for each of us. I'd love to know how you make your tunes work. You're obviously faster with them even if most others aren't. If we could learn to drive like each other then we would both be faster.
What do you say? Project?

@Ronald6 what class is this? Are these official results, do they replace previous posting for the Improved Touring class. Confused? Thanks.

 

[Lionheart2113]

@Ronald6 what class is this? Are these official results, do they replace previous posting for the Improved Touring class. Confused? Thanks.

Those are all of the testers times and reviews driving Ridox cars....Ronald6 was using them as a reference when stating his point. I got confused too and thought my car got slower!!

 

[Motor City Hami]

Those are all of the testers times and reviews driving Ridox cars....Ronald6 was using them as a reference when stating his point. I got confused too and thought my car got slower!!

Thank you.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Thank you.

Anytime! I think I'm going to put off the last test (Roadster Touring Car) for a day or so and redo the entire filed. All of these ghost/ninja updates are making me a little nervous.

 

[donpost]

@kapnk006 that's some outstanding review work - I love the graphs! Top work, sir

 

[seb15000]

The link is broken. It is not visible to me. Please re-link the image.

Message edit Mr Hami,
can you tell me if this is ok ??
thank you