SCCA Improved Touring Miata Tuners
All cars painted Solid : Lime Lite.
All cars have the same sized wheels as the tune (+1 inch are required in this shootout), BBS RS, painted the same color as the car.
Settings:
All aids off, ABS 1
Grip: Real
Controller: DFGT
FFB: 7
Controller Sensitivity: Irrelevant!
Offline, Arcade Mode, Time Trial, Apricot Hill
Ridox2JZGTE MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
I tried this car first, but after a couple of laps I gave up trying to learn this track with this car. I'll test it last.
-- later --
1:36.380, 3
My grandmother raised me to believe, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Anything at all.
DolHaus MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
1:35.204, 7
Fun, but at the edge of slip the car is very... Umm, temperamental? Its easy to overpower the rear on exit, which I like, nothing wrong with a little throttle control, but in this case its hurting this cars times. This is not a car I would race against other cars online, I would prefer a more stable car at the limit for that.
Corner entry is hindered by the quick weight shifts, its very difficult to brake gently and subtly. Half of my laps were lost on corner entry as I tried to brake for the Euler epex*, only to slip into the grass. Trail braking is almost a must on this track with at least 3 Euler corners* that call for reducing your speed while in the corner, rather than before.
Mid corner is where this car excels. If I get the entry correct then mid corner rotation flows nicely into the corner exit without too much understeer push or oversteer over rotation.
Corner exit is fine as long as you don't like to get on the gas too quick, throttle control is a must. I'm not sure if the oversteer slip on corner exit is due to too much power, or not enough grip. The hyper weight shifts under braking only accentuate the slow body roll.
* A Euler corner is a reducing radius corner, it tightens later in the corner. If you go in at the edge of control for the first part of the corner you won't be able to make the tightening apex later in the corner, not without braking while in the corner.
krenkme MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
1:35.730, 6
Very stable. But not to the point where you can just throttle as you please.
On entry the car feels planted, all four wheels working as they should. BLOR is a problem only if I over do it. Late braking is only a problem if you don't brake before the corner. After a few laps I learned it wasn't reasonable to expect to enter a corner on the edge of slip and expect a smooth transition to mid corner.
At mid corner the car can accept a lot (and I mean A LOT) of of steering input. In fact it might be too much. On my first lap i was sawing so much at mid corner in order to find the optimum angle/rotation. On later laps I was either trying to get the rear slip to match the front slip or trying to keep the front under slip under the rear slip. A good feeling rotation isn't possible on long corners, and is only possible on tighter corners under BLOR. A more balanced slip would help this car a lot. I'm not sure it its too much front slip or not enough rear.
Corner exit, if I can get the car setup correctly, is the best part of a corner for this car. Its possible to over throttle, but its not a problem, its predictable.
DaBomm4 MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
1:33.961, 7
On my first lap I found the braking to be too heavy and without subtlety. On my second lap I was raging into corners, tapping the breaks (pre-entering about 3 feet) and throttling through the apex and out the exit.
And the car still has a nice balance through sweeping corners, as long as I don't look at the brakes. ...
By my 4th lap I was done having fun and tried a more balanced approach, braking early and throttling through the corner.
After 12 laps I found myself wishing for more subtle brakes. This tune could rock if I was able to use the brakes as more than a boolean switch. I'm either braking or I'm not, there's no range.
I never found a good rhythm, the disparity between throttling and being neutral was a huge difference in the cars attitude, braking throws the already large disparity into an extreme. If the weight is shifting forward or already is forward then the car is very stable and will under steer like a pig. If the weight is shifting back or already is back then the car wants to rotate, and just a bit more rotation than I like (but rotation is predictable and I can work with it).
jtqmopar MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
1:34.143, 7
Braking is subtle but lacks stopping power from high speed (there's just no pleasing me
).
... 6 laps later... OK, I know what it is now. Someone posted about FTS (first tune syndrome). The tune will be slower because you're still learning the track. In think this tune suffers from DSWS (driving style wack syndrome). This is when you go from one extreme (such as a car that's very stable under braking and unstable under throttle) to another extreme.
This car is very stable under throttle and will push out ever so slightly unless you use situational oversteer to counter it. Under braking this car will rotate on a dime.
I was never comfortable with this tune, I never found a good rhythm. Again I think that was due to the disparity of attitudes between front weight shifts and rear.
Onboy123 MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
1:33.512, 9
Ahhh, balance, subtly, grace. How about a few more adjectives: consistent, predictable, relaxing, power, controlled-drift. (Ok, that last one isn't one word, but I can't think of a single word that fits, so lemmealone.)
Braking is powerful but doesn't make the car too stable (understeer) or too loose (oversteer). BLOR can be a problem and takes a few laps to mediate. On later laps I found that I only braked for speed, not effect, throttle lift off gave me all the attitude adjustment I needed.
Corner entry is predictable and free of understeer unless I really @#$% up.
Mid corner is very good as long as I get the entry correct. I have to be careful at mid corner, the car at this point is only as good as the driver. The car will under or oversteer depending on the weight shift. Smooth inputs are a must.
Corner exit is a balancing act, mainly with the throttle, but steering is a large part still Steering isn't as sensitive as the throttle. Corner exit is a continuation of mid corner. Many other cars make it easy to distinguish between entry, mid and corner exit. This car is so dynamic its hard to tell where one part ends and another begins. The car also has enough non-LSD-limited power to drift out on exit. When I get a long sweeping corner right (and I know when I get it right, I can feel it {I become more relaxed} and my times improve) I'm usually under so much power and the car is so well balanced that both the front and rear tyres are all in a four wheel slight drift. Hella'fun.
My fastest lap (ten) I used a lot more drifting than I usually would. When shifting from one turning direction to the next the car would snap past the middle into a gentle weight catch on the other side. If you've ever done an egg toss, especially over 20 feet, then you have the idea.
I'm not sure I would like this tune for online racing, I like a more stable car when around other drivers. But for a TT tune its a car I'm comfortable getting comfortable with.
I limited myself to 12 laps, like all the other tunes I've done so far and will do, but I could spend hours trying to perfect my time in this car. It wouldn't be boring, it would be relaxing. Not quite a "mind control car," but only a few hairs widths away.
ACSR421 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:34.019, 6
Stable under throttle, over agile under braking.
Corner entry is the most difficult part of a corner. BLOR is a real problem and where most of my difficulties come from. I have to brake my tendency to brake late into most corners. With this car I need to brake very early and get on the throttle long before I start turning in. This makes entering Euler corners hard to predict, and a driving line hard to discover. Should I brake before the corner, go slow through the first part of the corner under throttle then hope I haven't gained too much speed that I miss the tightening apex later in the corner. Or should I enter the corner under throttle, brake while in the long gentle turn, continue decreasing speed till I hit the entry to the apex and throttle through till the apex. I prefer the second option, I get the best times this way, but this car isn't stable enough under braking, more specifically brake lift off, to execute this.
Mid corner and corner exit are the same. Under throttle the car is very stable and predictable. It will accept a lot of steering input, even a tad of counter steer without losing time.
By the end of my 12 laps I was more frustrated than anything. My best lap was 5, I somehow got the car to rotate through the long-entry-tightening-apex (Euler) corners without spinning out or loosing too much time. "Too much time" being subjective, I felt like I was crawling through the entry of most corners. After lap 5 it felt like a crap shoot, "can I enter this corner with speed and rotate correctly?" 95% or the time the answer was: no. And with 3+ Euler corners on this track 95% x3 = SOL.
Bowtie-muscle MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:34.332, 7
Great stopping distance, slight problem with BLOR, but that's workable, even useful on the tightest corners.
Corner entry is stable but under braking understeer will push the car out.
Mid corner is fairly balanced, but unstable enough that half my laps are useless (but that's as much about pushing the limits as the cars instability).
Corner exit is smooth, with enough power left over to make throttle control necessary on slow and mid speed corners.
It felt fairly balanced but also felt like it didn't have as much grip as other cars. The brakes were extremely sensitive and I either buried my foot, or tried to only use 1%. At high speed there's not much room between the two.
Chipmonk77 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:34.098, 7
Stable on entry, enough that trail braking into the Euler's is fairly easy and predictable. There's still a lot of agility left over if you need it, the car can still rotate quickly. BLOR was never a problem, I just had to be aware it would happen and it became a tool. On many cars this 'tool' is like a hammer hanging over your head, its a tool but its dangerous. With Chip77s tune this hammer stays in the tool box, but close at hand when needed.
Mid corner is my largest problem area. The rear end is just too loose at mid corner, especially in a chicane where the weight shifts from one direction to another. Going from straight into a curve isn't a problem, but if the weight is already on one side it takes a long time for it to move from that side to the middle and arc over. Its that egg toss analogy but this time after it leaves the first persons hand the egg goes into bullet time till it hits the top of its arc, then it goes back to normal to fall into the waiting guys hands. (I just had a weird image of Stephen Hawking as Neo dodging egg bullets. Now you have the image too.)
Corner exit goes back to the same attitude as corner entry: stability with agility. Its a hard combo to pair, most times you get one or the other. Praiano the only tuner I know who always seems able to find that balance. But to find it on even one car is an achievement. Unfortunately there's a contrivance going on. The 'stability+agility' is only achieved at the sacrifice of mid corner stability. If Chip77 could have found a way to make the mid corner retain the same attitude as entry and exit this would be a 9-10 car. Unfortunately the mid corner instability is like a stake through Dracula's heart. Sure he's powerful and bada$$, but with a wood stake through his heart...
I did try to make the mid corner I stability work for me, the first corner is a good example: I treated the long entry as the entry, the late apex as mid corner and exit as exit. With that configuration the car doesn't need braking, just lose speed as it understeer out with pre-entry, after enough speed is scrubbed the car would naturally arc in more, I'd apply slightly more throttle till the car became completely straight. Unfortunately it didn't work that way. The speed scrubbing worked well, but whenever I tried to go past the apex the cars instability made continuity almost impossible.
The transmission has strange shifting points. I got used to them but it felt I'll timed.
HTR Tuning MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:34.257, 6
I'm back to the egg toss analogy (try not to think about Stephen Hawking, too late!). This time the egg passes from 25-75% very quickly. From 0-24% and 76-100% the egg is slower.
On entry the car is fairly stable with just enough rotation to make hitting Euler corners a blast. The first corner on the first lap put a massive smile on my face.
Then I hit mid corner and things went downhill. After corner entry I'm fighting on the limit of grip on many corners. I either feel like the weight is moving too fast (0-24% + 76-100%) or too slow (25-75%). Balance is rarely achieved, just passed by with a glance (woosh, "what was that? Too late, I'll never know.")
Corner exit has a slow oversteer problem, I have to always be 5% under the throttle I want to give. If I give the car the throttle I want then it will slowly buildup on the outside rear tyre (at a point when most cars are 50 yards past where they gained stability/balance) and if I don't back off the throttle (losing me a lot of time) or counter steer (again losing time) the car will either continue to slowly rotate or burn out the outside tyre. This is KILLING the cars time. On long straights where I want to be powering out I'm puttering around waiting on the outside rear tyre, and waiting, and waiting... This isn't throttle control, this is throttle martial law.
The transmission is top of the line SOTA. Well done there. Shifting was instinctual. The only time I thought about shifting is to reflect on the fact that I never had to think about shifting.
(or maybe I had so much other stuff to worry about I didn't have time to think about shifting? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.)
While I like an unstable car over a too stable car, this one pushes that too far and adds in a dynamic attitude that's hard to predict. ¢¢
Lionheart2113 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:33.917, 7
Great corner entry. Braking is sensitive and I can apply just as much as I want. Predictability and accuracy are very high. The car feels planted and responsive even when swaying in a chicane.
BLOR is a wonderful hammer stored just within reach. If I was a geek I'd refer to the BLOR of this car as Mjolnir, but no.
Mid corner is a continuation of entry. Stability and agility. Aim and throttle, simple as that.
Corner exit is a continuation of mid corner.
The transmission is very good, instinctive.
Power is lacking. Most of the stability feels like a lack of power, at least on corner exit. If this car was just a little bit less constrained, needed just a little bit more throttle control, this car would be a rocket. This car would be much worse without the agility. Lack of power with a lot of stability usually equals a tune I'll suited to my driving style. Somehow Lion has added agility/rotation to an underpowered stable car. Kudos.
As a side note I got blue times on lap 1, 2 and three, then didn't get any better times till laps 10, 11 and twelve. This is the only car I tried 13 laps on. 13 isn't lucky for this car,
.
NEWDRIVER123 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:34.377, 8
One word I don't think I've ever used to describe a car is poise. But that's one of the first words that came to mind. Grace, power, and poise. Like a ballerina on steroids.
Corner entry is very good. Predictable and accurate. Braking distance is very short and stable.
Mid corner is a balancing act. There is more than enough power and rotation to send the car into a spin on most corners.
Corner exit is a continuation of mid corner. More than enough power to send the car into a spin. The car had very little push, but would continue to rotate under throttle.
Its just a feeling but I wish the car had more traction under throttle, it feels like its rotating just a smidge too much and would benefit from more push/front wheel grip.
shaunm80 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:33.987, 8
This is the first car I had a problem meeting spec on. The weight is off. I added weight reduction stage 3 instead of stage 2, and window weight reduction, and changed the ballast from 19kg to 17kg.
Corner entry is stable with some (fairly mild and predictable) understeer. The rear is just agile enough to make rotation possible as long as I prepare for it.
Mid corner is a smooth transition from stability (entry) to agility. The car doesn't want to spin out, but it can it you push the car past its limit, which only happens when you want.
Corner exit is a beautiful blend of steering and throttle, agility and stability. But if I get mid corner correct corner exit feels underpowered.
After several laps I found the car could accept more slip through the first two parts of the corner, but the accuracy and predictably go down.
The transmission never uses 6th gear and I can't help but think that hurts the cars time.
BLOR is nonexistent.
ugabugaz MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
1:33.831, 8
Corner entry is accurate and predictable, stable with little understeer. Trailbraking has the most control of all the cars I've tested.
Mid corner transitions well from entry. BLOR is rarely a problem and can be useful, but its easy to over rotate under BLOR. Mid corner understeer is my biggest problem and ruins most of my laps. Its hard to find a balance between throttling enough for speed and pushing out, and keeping the understeer under control.
If I don't push out too much on mid corner corner exit is good. There's still enough power to oversteer on exit, but the understeer from mid corner transforms into a stable balance.
I wasn't part of the last challage but didn't the same thing happen?
sorry, now I got confused
