FITT Miata Tuning Challenge

[Lionheart2113]

On a different note, me thinks that Hami might have had a trick up his sleeve for the Spec tuners. Will clarify when I post the test results, with any luck it will be tomorrow night. Very sneaky! (quote from @Lionheart2113 )
Did I miss something or did you never let the cat out of the bag?

The cars for this spec were so ridiculously close in stock form, even with the high number of possibilities. It is also very easy to "over tune" and ruin the car. A little sneaky for some new tuners, myself included, and probably caused some pulling out of the hair! What can I say, the man knows his Miatas!

Edit: and not a bad teacher...reminding all veterans and teaching the rookies the first rule of tuning. Baby steps, no need to swing for the fences when trying to tune. And the second rule...take notes and remember to turn things off and on accordingly! Once again, I'm a victim of this rule as well!

 

[Xiamoto]

Unless anyone objects, I'd like to test the Roadster Touring Cars with some more graphs .

 

[Otaliema]

Unless anyone objects, I'd like to test the Roadster Touring Cars with some more graphs .

go for it man the more testers the better in my book.

 

[backnfourth]

The cars for this spec were so ridiculously close in stock form, even with the high number of possibilities. It is also very easy to "over tune" and ruin the car. A little sneaky for some new tuners, myself included, and probably caused some pulling out of the hair! What can I say, the man knows his Miatas!

Absolutely agree. Everyone of the cars could basically be tuned as far as power with the same torque. Each one had slight differences in handing. Some tending to oversteer and others understeer. I found that unlike in my other attempts to tune cars (mostly tuning to 450-550pp) that small changes were much more noticeable. I overtuned a handful of the spec miatas before I realized that I needed to might smaller adjustments, and not stray too far away from some of the stock suspension settings in particular. But looking at some of the other tunes it seems that a successful tune could still be achieved with more extreme changes. Very interesting and informative introduction to tuning, and even though I don't have the time to test the spec classes, I'm going to drive those cars just to get a feel for ways to achieve different handling characteristics.
Also! super pumped for miata seasonal. When I get time next week I'll spend a good deal of time picking and tuning and testing a new miata for the seasonal.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Also! super pumped for miata seasonal. When I get time next week I'll spend a good deal of time picking and tuning and testing a new miata for the seasonal.

I just took out MCH's Street Touring setup and decreased the performance points. First lap was well under the time to get gold! Good luck with the testing, I don't spend much on the time trials...waiting patiently for a-spec type of races, the ones you can do over and over again for some mega bucks! It is funny on the timing and that everyone who has read or been involved in this shootout know where to go for some great tunes for the Miata Time Trial.

 

[Otaliema]

I tossed the tune list into the seasonal thread well a link to this thread.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Absolutely agree. Everyone of the cars could basically be tuned as far as power with the same torque. Each one had slight differences in handing. Some tending to oversteer and others understeer. I found that unlike in my other attempts to tune cars (mostly tuning to 450-550pp) that small changes were much more noticeable. I overtuned a handful of the spec miatas before I realized that I needed to might smaller adjustments, and not stray too far away from some of the stock suspension settings in particular. But looking at some of the other tunes it seems that a successful tune could still be achieved with more extreme changes. Very interesting and informative introduction to tuning, and even though I don't have the time to test the spec classes, I'm going to drive those cars just to get a feel for ways to achieve different handling characteristics.
Also! super pumped for miata seasonal. When I get time next week I'll spend a good deal of time picking and tuning and testing a new miata for the seasonal.

I have only tried 1 other spec tune other than my own, which was probably over tuned, and that was yours. I can totally see how you are killing DC points.👍

 

[bread82]

Miata seasonal, just as loads of GTP'ers have tuned Miatas for an event. Sweet! Who says PD don't pay any attention to their customers!

Next time one of the GT6 complaining threads has a post to this effect, I'm going to have to give serious consideration to using this coincidence as ragebait.

 

[Michelin]

Do we, testers, need to write a little review of the tune? I don't remember exactly how every tune felt for me.
I can say that every setup generally gave me the impression of oversteer, some more than others. And in some I had to adjust a bit my driving style so I could get faster.

 

[DaBomm4]

Do we, testers, need to write a little review of the tune? I don't remember exactly how every tune felt for me.
I can say that every setup generally gave me the impression of oversteer, some more than others. And in some I had to adjust a bit my driving style so I could get faster.

It would be nice but I am not sure if it is necessary. If you want to, you could take each tune out for a leisurely stroll to get some feedback on it.

 

[Michelin]

It would be nice but I am not sure if it is necessary. If you want to, you could take each tune out for a leisurely stroll to get some feedback on it.

If it's required, then my results will only be posted tomorrow.

 

[Otaliema]

@Michelin reviews are required. Check the rules @Motor City Hami posted page one post 5. At least that's how I interrupt what is posted. "Results and feedback will be posted in this thread by March 16th"
I will tell you as a tuner a review is great feedback so we can improve our tuning fir the community as a whole.

 

[Michelin]

@Michelin reviews are required. Check the rules @Motor City Hami posted page one post 5. At least that's how I interrupt what is posted. "Results and feedback will be posted in this thread by March 16th"
I will tell you as a tuner a review is great feedback so we can improve our tuning fir the community as a whole.

I know how useful are reviews, it's just that I'm bit lazy lately.

It only says about driver score, which I did and if score is under 4 then be specific (review) about it. So I still don't know.

So right now, I'll summon @Motor City Hami in attacking position!

MCH, are reviews needed or I can only post the times along with the driver scores?

 

[iainoflo85]

I know how useful are reviews, it's just that I'm bit lazy lately.

It only says about driver score, which I did and if score is under 4 then be specific (review) about it. So I still don't know.

So right now, I'll summon @Motor City Hami in attacking position!

MCH, are reviews needed or I can only post the times along with the driver scores?

Might I point out Rule 13 of the standardized FITT rules:

13) Driver feedback, both positive and negative, is strongly encouraged and should be done in a constructive manner. Not all tunes work well for every driver. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and may result in penalties or disqualification at the discretion of the organizer(s) and also may be subject to sanction by GTPlanet Moderating Staff. Treat all participants and spectators in a respectful manner so that everyone may enjoy the event.

That to me reads as not a requirement, but a request.

Granted when you say "review" I think more than a few lines of comment, I sometimes don't go into great amounts of detail unless it's really needed, but if you look at @seb15000 's feedback of one line I think that's sufficient in most cases.

 

[Michelin]

Might I point out Rule 13 of the standardized FITT rules:

13) Driver feedback, both positive and negative, is strongly encouraged and should be done in a constructive manner. Not all tunes work well for every driver. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and may result in penalties or disqualification at the discretion of the organizer(s) and also may be subject to sanction by GTPlanet Moderating Staff. Treat all participants and spectators in a respectful manner so that everyone may enjoy the event.

That to me reads as not a requirement, but a request.

Granted when you say "review" I think more than a few lines of comment, I sometimes don't go into great amounts of detail unless it's really needed, but if you look at @seb15000 's feedback of one line I think that's sufficient in most cases.

Guess I have three more days to re-run the cars and give some feedback, huh? Damn! I should've made this right on the first time.

 

[iainoflo85]

Guess I have three more days to re-run the cars and give some feedback, huh? Damn! I should've made this right on the first time.

Don't worry about it. I once forgot to write down my feedback and then had to go back later and run the cars again.
I think it will only take you a couple laps in each car to know what you want to say, though.

 

[Michelin]

Don't worry about it. I once forgot to write down my feedback and then had to go back later and run the cars again.
I think it will only take you a couple laps in each car to know what you want to say, though.

I did around 10 laps on each car trying to get the best lap possible with each, so I guess it won't be that hard.

 

[Ronald6]

My 2 c:
Reviews are NOT required. As a tuner we are happy to get any feedback because it helps us improve our craft.

My grandmother, a nurse, once told me that the more you talk with your Dr the better the diagnosis. I look at tuning the same way. The more feedback the better I can diagnose what I need to fix with my tunes.

As a reviewer I know that it is difficult to go through 6 or more cars, especially the same make and model, it can be difficult to give feedback. But! if you persist and learn how to diagnose a car your driving will improve. And isnt that what we're all here for?

 

[iainoflo85]

And here are the results for the Spec Miata Class.

Spec Miata

Streets of Willow

Let me preface these results by just saying that I don't know the track that well so the laptimes might not be representative of what these cars should be able to achieve, also due to this I can't always pinpoint the exact issues if any arise due to my unfamiliarity with the track.


DaBomm4

Time: 1'28.180

DC - 9

With nothing to compare to at the moment I can't say anything bad about it. Though wheelspin out of the corners sometimes snuck up on me. Felt really good otherwise. Had a bit of trouble on the hard braking on the slight downhill at the back end of the lap.


Chipmonk77

Time: 1'28.905

DC - 6

The problem here was oversteer. Braking was no trouble at all, cornering - yeah it could do that pretty well if I wasn't too quick to lift. It was throttle application that made this car most unhappy - lift-off oversteer and then power oversteer were the main issues and by babying the car a bit too much it meant it was slightly slower. Better under braking though at the downhill.


bread82

Time: 1'27.916

DC - 8

A car that felt really good, was pretty tolerant except when I wanted to throw it into the corners in the esses, occasionally it spun out from momentum oversteer, and when coming out of braking for the downhill it occasionally went the wrong way. Great out of the corners though, braking was fine. Some understeer also in places, but otherwise a good tune.


killerjimbag

Time: 1'28.202

DC - 7

Well the laptime suggests otherwise but I had to battle a lot of understeer with this car - this meant harder, faster, stronger braking, but I could get out of the corners very quick after. I also had to correct it a few times from momentum oversteer in the esses, but I caught it most times before it could spin. That laptime only came once I'd gotten comfortable with the car and braking points. It did come by surprise, but I had bread's ghost on for it, so that could have helped.
Also no brake balance was listed so I used default setting.


backnfourth

Time: 1'27.230

DC - 9

A car that completely took me by surprise - there was understeer, yes, but once I learned to brake a bit earlier and harder the car knew exactly when to turn and really wanted to as well. It just felt right once I got comfortable and the laptime was the biggest surprise. It just felt really good after those first couple of laps, really well done.


JackWilson

Time: 1'28.239

DC - 7

It felt like a completely different car after backnfourth's tune. Getting onto the power had to be later or else I would spin, and it didn't eat up the corners nearly as much. There was also some momentum oversteer in the esses.


Bowtie-muscle

Time: 1'27.707

DC - 8

A good tune, up there with the best, but getting onto the power was not as fast, and there was a few problems with braking at the "downhill" section.
Good, but was sometimes frustrating.


HTR Tuning

Time: 1'27.451

DC - 10

Only problem, it didn't like the kerbs and the bit at the start of the "fishbowl" where the camber on the road was weird. Spot-on tune otherwise.


Harsk100

Time: 1'29.391

DC - 8

The tune was okay, it had some understeer, it had no power oversteer at all - I could get on the power really quickly, but somehow it was just slow.


DozUk

Time: 1'27.575

DC - 9

A good tune, there was some understeer again, but I don't think it was much of a problem, I think the laptime was hindered in fact by the brakes. But I'm not certain. Nothing else wrong with the tune, otherwise.


Ridox2JZGTE

Time: 1'29.133

DC - 7

A nice car to drive, if you don't want to go fast. Understeer and way too much of it was the problem here - understeer under braking, and understeer on throttle. Good car to just drive, but not to race in.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@iainoflo85 Thank you sir for your time testing, much much appreciated by me and I am sure all of the other tuners. Your feedback is great, and can only help in the future.

 

[Otaliema]

@Michelin @iainoflo85 Right sorry about that my bad for not reading the actual FITT rules/reg's for test driving.

 

[DigitalBaka]

We have never required a review to be done. If you have the time we do strongly encourage it as that is the most helpful piece for the tuners, but only the times and drivers choice scores are ever required.

 

[biffa3]

Well, this is my testing complete. Has been a fun, if sometimes extremely frustrating, FITT event. Some excellent cars produced over the 4 classes, and some tracks that i'll not want to revist anytime soon!!

Results for SCCA Improved Touring Class

Some excellent cars here, with not an awful lot to choose between any of them. I'll most certainly be using some of them in the future.

As always, cars tested for 10 laps with DS3(dpad rather than stick), with automatic transmission. All aids off except driving line and ABS1.

@Ridox2JZGTE MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
Time - 1:36:210
DC - 6
Struggled with understeer. The brakes also had a tendency to lock up under heavy braking.

@DolHaus MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
Time - 1:34:925
DC - 7
Lots of oversteer. You have to make small adjustments when at speed or it'll turn into a drift monster.

@krenkme MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
Time - 1:33:989
DC - 8
Be careful not to be fooled by this car. One wrong move and it'll gladly bite ya! Hit your lines though and it's a great car to drive.

@DaBomm4 MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:286
DC - 10
Very solid, balanced tune. No understeer or oversteer. Stable under braking. Good turn in and rotation. Did exactly what I asked of it. Bravo Sir.

@jtqmopar MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:696
DC - 8
The oversteer is manageable, but stops you from being able to really push it. Stable under braking. Provided consistent lap times once I had adjusted. Good effort.

@Onboy123 MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:32:815
DC - 9
You may need a few laps to adjust, and i'd suggest doing your braking in a straight line. Once you have adjusted, this car juts eats up the track. Good braking, easy to get on the power.

@ACSR421 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:674
DC - 7
Watch out for the brake release oversteer. You'll need to keep it tight as there's not much room for error. You could quite easily just have a controlled rift around the whole of the track if you wanted to. Still provided a decent lap time though.

@Bowtie-muscle MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:630
DC - 8
Decent tune with a hint of understeer, and some power oversteer. Good under braking.

@Chipmonk77 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:34:192
DC - 7
Brake release oversteer again here. Has good pace but couldn't get a decent lap together.

@HTR Tuning MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:716
DC - 8
A fairly stable tune with a hint of oversteer. Easy to control when you get your lines right.

@Lionheart2113 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:617
DC - 9.5
This tune has good balance (for me anyway). The drop down to 4th in the long left hander is crucial. Stable around most of the track, with a bit of power oversteer on the exit of the hairpin. Well done.

@NEWDRIVER123 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:34:063
DC - 7
Suffered with both understeer and oversteer with this one. Definately capable of 1:33's and I was almost there.

@shaunm80 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:34:690
DC - 8
Good solid tune with a hint of oversteer. Shame about the weight issue though. (Incidentally, and for shaunm80's info only, I did run it at 925kg and took 0.8 seconds off (1:33:844) within a few laps. It did introduce some understeer though. Other than that, handling was much the same, although a bit nimbler obviously).

@ugabugaz MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:817
DC - 8
Some understeer and oversteer here. Stable under braking and seemed to have good pace.

 

[Onboy123]

Thanks for the test…and I think I'm pushing my luck now, should probably leave the scene after this, be content with two podium finishes. Hope I didn't jinx it.

But yea, brake in a straight line or be brave and hope you don't spin, two ways of driving it. One proves you have a massive brain, the other proves you have massive balls.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@biffa3 Thanks for the time and effort, great job on review, very appreciated:tup:

 

[Lionheart2113]

@Lionheart2113 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:33:617
DC - 9.5
This tune has good balance (for me anyway). The drop down to 4th in the long left hander is crucial. Stable around most of the track, with a bit of power oversteer on the exit of the hairpin. Well done.

You noticed the drop into 4th on the left hander!👍 Just need enough brake and coast to get the transmission to kick down one gear then mash it outta there. If not, it would like to push. Nice find! Sounds like you drove it the same way I did.

 

[shaunm80]

Well, this is my testing complete. Has been a fun, if sometimes extremely frustrating, FITT event. Some excellent cars produced over the 4 classes, and some tracks that i'll not want to revist anytime soon!!

Results for SCCA Improved Touring Class


@shaunm80 MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
Time - 1:34:690
DC - 8
Good solid tune with a hint of oversteer. Shame about the weight issue though. (Incidentally, and for shaunm80's info only, I did run it at 925kg and took 0.8 seconds off (1:33:844) within a few laps. It did introduce some understeer though. Other than that, handling was much the same, although a bit nimbler obviously).

Thank you for the review. Yes, The weight issue was killing the top speed. For the next event, I am definitely going to spend longer making sure the weight is spot on and the gear box is set correctly. Good to know that my time would have been up there if I hadn't added another person into it.

 

[Otaliema]

Also somthing to consider is the aero packages on the car the rear wing really just slows the car down in GT6 it rarely gives enough benifit to warrent putting it on. The front aero testing, well the jury is still out. it has an effect on the car just not sure it's a wash, benifit or detriment yet. Flat floors are only good if your building a full bore tune where the car fully maxxed out is 15 or more PP under your target, and the other aero kit packs are soo sporadtic that I havn't had enough time to test them, they appare to cosmedic.
Wheels are also a toss in my book, they make a differance the larger wheels help top speed but the smaller sidewalls tend to hurt street cars ability to hold a corner.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I know how useful are reviews, it's just that I'm bit lazy lately.

It only says about driver score, which I did and if score is under 4 then be specific (review) about it. So I still don't know.

So right now, I'll summon @Motor City Hami in attacking position!

MCH, are reviews needed or I can only post the times along with the driver scores?

Reviews are not required, just recommended. Lap times and dirver's choice will be fine. Test drivers are doing us a favor so what ever you have time for is fine. Thank you for test driving.

 

[Michelin]

Reviews are not required, just recommended. Lap times and dirver's choice will be fine. Test drivers are doing us a favor so what ever you have time for is fine. Thank you for test driving.

Ok, I see.. Guess I have to thank you for taking this doubt out of my mind. Well, so I don't have to re-run all the cars again, I'll just post the Drvier Scores and the Lap Times.

SCCA Spec Miata Testing
​

Bowtie's Miata:
1:30.898
7.5/10

HTR Tuning Miata:
1:28.574
8/10

Harsk Miata:
1:27.819
9.75/10

DozUK Miata:
1:27.931
9.75/10

Ridox Miata:
1:28.560
7.75/10

backnfourth Miata:
1:27.267
10/10

JackWilson Miata:
1:27.464
9.5/10

DaBomm4 Miata:
1:26.998
10/10

Chipmonk77 Miata:
1:27.674
8/10

bread82 Miata:
1:27.248
8.5/10

killerjimbag Miata:
1:27.659
8/10

Overall saying: I can't deny that I had fun driving the Miatas. Like I've heard somewhere, Miatas are karts with a body. Every Miata oversteered on corner exit, so being a bit careful was key to get a fast lap around Willow. Even those who used low acceleration LSD numbers got somehow a bit oversteery on corner exit (1st and last turn to be more exact) but some had a understeer on corner entry, so I had to adapt myself to drive that car fast, which was fun to do.
I gave closer scores to everyone because even thought the worst lap was almost 4 seconds behind the fastest one, it didn't fell less fun or less fast. What doesn't work with one person might work with someone else.