FITT Nurburgring Nordschleife Shootout v2.0

[esoxhntr]

THanks for all the comments, everyone's participation and CSL for organizing

re: long 2nd gear, my theory was that it would actually produce faster times from ~100 km/hr up to max speed [where all the racing on this track is done]. It would be slower from 0-100.

reasoning is two-fold:

1) the long 2nd allows you to stay in 2nd longer.. ie. when CSLs RUF has to switch to 3rd, mine is still in 2nd with a more favourable ratio for acceleration. Rate of acceleration = power to the wheels = torque * gear ratio * final drive.

2) long 2nd allows me to space 2-6 closer, again better acceleration keeping the RPMs closer to peak power

Of course it's a theory and I could be wrong. It'd be interesting to see if it holds true in a 100km/hr to top speed roll-on race. It should be slower from a dig.

 

[CSLACR]

Thanks, approval from the slacker is proof enough for me, 5 minute guess tunes are good enough for most people. Is it a hard to tune car though? I really don't know, I just slapped some settings on it then gave it very long gears.

Also quoted XD's comments because of the bold. Surely you mean downshifting?

To be fair, I drove it pre updates and maxed out.

And no, down****ting is the proper term. Tomato tomoto.

 

[CSLACR]

THanks for all the comments and everyone's participation and CSL for organizing

re: long 2nd gear, my theory was that it would actually produce faster times from ~100 km/hr up to max speed [where all the racing on this track is done]. It would be slower from 0-100.

reasoning is two-fold:

1) the long 2nd allows you to stay in 2nd longer.. ie. when CSLs RUF has to switch to 3rd, mine is still in 2nd with a more favourable ratio for acceleration

2) long 2nd allows me to space 3-6 closer, again better acceleration keeping the RPMs closer to peak power

Of course it's a theory and I could be wrong. It'd be interesting to see if it holds true in a 100km/hr to top speed roll-on race. It should be slower from a dig.

It was the several critical digs I was concerned with actually, though I would agree my 2nd gear is a bit quick for all the torque I ran.

From what I could tell the gears mostly evened out, but the significantly fatter powerband of mine kept it's pep regardless of RPM.

If you keep your car on share I would greatly like to hotlap these two against each other for more than 2 laps. 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Thanks to all tester, Mike, Praiano, CSL, Iain, JP, Luv2Drive, Ivan, Cy, and all others, I appreciated the feedback and will note them all for future tuning.

 

[esoxhntr]

If you keep your car on share I would greatly like to hotlap these two against each other for more than 2 laps. 👍

Other than removing it briefly to dupe it, I will leave it on share. Shift @ 7900 or as close to the rev-limit as you dare. Like you mentioned our power bands are a bit different and the two cars are a classic battle of more power vs lighter weight.

I'll try to take note of where (at what speed) my gear shifts occur. It could very well be the ideal may be somewhere between our two 2nds.

 

[Motor City Hami]

So much for all of your work (all of the tuners in this competition) in finding some of the better cars at the new PP levels from 2.10. Load 2.11 today and we're back to 2.09 PP settings. I was just building a 3400S. Wonder if it will still be PP competitive?

 

[praiano63]

So much for all of your work (all of the tuners in this competition) in finding some of the better cars at the new PP levels from 2.10. Load 2.11 today and we're back to 2.09 PP settings. I was just building a 3400S. Wonder if it will still be PP competitive?

I'm sick and i can't do some test from bed. The few i saw from the new update , checking my cars , i'm not so sure that the PP system come back exactly to what it was before.
The 2.09 top cars didn't change for sure. But, i have some doubt for some other mediums range cars.
I'll do a test when i 'll get better from this flu !!!

 

[shmogt]

So I'm guessing this is over since the pp has changed possibly.

Side question. Any tunes made in the last update time are ruined? Have you found your other tunes are changed or basically the same?

 

[Onboy123]

So I'm guessing this is over since the pp has changed possibly.

Side question. Any tunes made in the last update time are ruined? Have you found your other tunes are changed or basically the same?

Eh, we're gonna carry on with the testing for once, regardless of the PP difference. Not very fair on Slacker's R8, but heh, does it look like we care?

 

[Motor City Hami]

The Miatas that I build for the 380PP seasonal in 2.10 have all gained between 50 and 54 PP in the 2.11 update. Just going to keep noting in my garage which game update the tunes were built under.

 

[mike_gt3]

Mike's the exception, he's too good to run with my settings. If it was any softer Mike, it'd become…well…a Mustang. [/QUOTE]

hehe, like i said it felt great!, the issues the car had were minimal, the biggest factor for the lower rating was the difference i found in laptime vs what i got when i tested mine. And for the time you spent on it its a good ratio of positive comments!

7:31.337 - mike_gt3 / GTP_Mike_Peperni - Infinity G35 Coupe Concept '06
The only issue I had was going full-throttle on exit a few times thinking it was 4wd. (Yes, this actually happened 3-4 times) One of the best cars/tunes IMO to date.
The build keeps the time down though It's just not fast enough.
DC: 10.0

Thx Dom!
If you dont mind can you tell me what in the build slow it down?
Most of time i always had better result running cars heavier, they are more stable, theres exceptions though...

 

[CSLACR]

Thx Dom!
If you dont mind can you tell me what in the build slow it down?
Most of time i always had better result running cars heavier, they are more stable, theres exceptions though...

Instead of ES3, and intake manifold, perhaps some exhaust/cat/ecu, could probably net 2-4 HP, a few less kg's and 1.5-2% PL.
Probably just that and a better lap it would probably have beaten ACSR's.(I was losing a second or two randomly with your car much like mine, just unlucky in a brief testing method)

On weight, as far as I've ever tested, on most tracks with most cars, Nurb included, lower weight is faster. The exceptions I've found usually carry an alternate reason for the difference too. (for example the Challenger would have needed lots of PL to run 450PP at minimum weight)

 

[mike_gt3]

Thx for the info, i thought the engine stage 3 was giving the most power vs anything else ,

for the weight most of time i start with less weight, and i do a lap, then give more weight, and adjust power and test again, most of time i will lose slighty at some area but regain on the long uphill before the karoussel, the Planfzgarten section (more stable, dont get upset as much) and on the long straight. But if i do a slight error and slide its where the weight really dont help, but theres some cars that will handle smoothly even when very light.

I will try to work on that and see if i can improve it.
Thank you! 👍

 

[Theo777]

Well it doesn't look good for my BMW and Spyker tunes. I must apologize for that carbon fiber board on the back of the C8. I know both of these tunes were technical and thus difficult and rather edgy to drive. I am grateful for the feedback to learn from the mistakes and improve my tuning. It was still fun to see how well they could handle a quick lap from this great group of test drivers. Maybe I should choose some better base cars next time. Thanks you again for the feedback testers!👍

 

[IvanOffalich]

CyKosis said:

CyKosis1973 / CyKosis1973 - Pontiac Solstice Concept
Time: 7:37.009
DC: 5
Further evidence that I have no idea what I'm doing. Predicatably, whilst the car felt flighty when I published it, I'd driven the thing for several hundred miles, so I'd gotten used to it's faults. School boy error. Having now driven all the other cars here, I pity the testers. Sorry...

Should I feel weird that my score for your car was much higher than the one that you gave it?

As I said in a previous post, I had driven this car before I even signed up to be a test driver. It was the first car for the Shootout that I had been exposed to. Some of you had given me the suggestion to try out the cars for this shootout and I was then encouraged to be a tester; which I ended up enjoying, aside from the short deadline due to my late sign up.

The car felt insane, unruly; like hopping on a horse that got stung by a bee. I, indeed thought that you were crazy, but as I said, in a good way.

It brought out the kid in me. You know that kid. The one who, despite the fact that there are tons of big trees at the bottom will still go sledding on that hill, because it's the steepest hill around.

You also pointed out something that made a huge difference for me as well. Although this car felt "wrong" at first in many ways, it started feeling "right" after awhile. Now that I've adjusted to it, I can't actually say what needs to be changed. Something in me changed while driving it and now I don't know what's wrong with it, because it feels normal. . . somehow.

There are cars like this in real life, that most people don't like, or can't get the hang of, but there are certain people who can do amazing things with those cars. They get a feel for them, and it's like something clicks. They might have complained about the car initially, but wouldn't change a thing now. Your car ended up being unique in that way. I hope that explains it; it's almost hard to put into words.

The car grew on me, and if you noticed; I managed my third fastest time in it. I even beat the time that I had set in Praiano's car in it.

To be very clear about this; had I signed up at the beginning of the shootout, and had much more time to adjust to all of the cars, I think the lap times would have ended up differently in the end. Your car would have definitely still been in the top five, but I think Praiano's might have ended up on top in the end. I had a better connection with it than the rest of the cars. His felt right and it compliments my driving style a lot. His cars seem to do that. I have quite a few in my garage that are his work. I tend to choose his cars because they are what I would do with mine, if I had any idea how to tune decently.

Yeah, it may seem odd that I gave such a high score to a car that almost no one liked, but it grew on me.

Side note 1: I decided to scrap learning how to tune on the car that I mentioned before. It changed PP pretty noticeably with the update-rebate and I think that working on a different car, at this point, might be a better way to go. I did make some progress on it, though, so I might try to tune it for a higher range. It went from just under 400 to over 450 with the update. I'm not completely certain if I want to keep working on it now without changing the HP or not. I'm very decisive about this, can you tell? hehe

Side note 2: I've been driving a vehicle lately that I've had for awhile around the Ring, just to see what I can get out of it. I'm not sure if the tuner would want me to draw attention to it or not in here, so I'm not going to give too much info away, but it's an unorthodox choice to drive, it's in the 500 PP range, it's tuned by one of the people from this Shootout, it's not actually optimized for the Ring, and I can make it around the Ring faster than the Viper on the leaderboard. Keep in mind that I'm far from being an expert on that track yet. I still have many of the subtleties to learn to maximize my lap times.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Should I feel weird that my score for your car was much higher than the one that you gave it?

Not at all. I genuinely thought that the car was ok when I hosted it. But then I'd put practically all of the mileage on the car, lapping and lapping, so I got used to it's bad habits. After having driven all the other cars and returning to mine, I was appauled at how bad the corner entry was.

I went back to Praiano's Aston and had a look at what he'd done to his car, I built another Solstice and made changes to it that reflected some of the things Praiano had done. I then carried on working at it, using the advise given in this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=274083

I've documented each change that I've made to the car and if I can find the enthusiasm, post 2.11, I will carry on and post what I've done in the above thread.

Now I've managed to get 2.11 installed, I can see that the Pontiac is now sat at 506PP, so I'm going to have a look at the Nordschleife PP Board and see how it'll stack up against other 500PP cars.

I gave the car a 5, because it is/was a good car, lots of pace and exciting to drive, especially after having reworked it. In my opinion, there were few cars more difficult to drive than mine. That's life though, take it on the chin and keep on walking 👍

Thanks to all the drivers, particularly as none of you seem to want to see me locked up ....... maybe put in a treatment program

{Cy}

{Cy}

 

[IvanOffalich]

I'm looking forward to driving the new version. Let me know when it's up.

 

[Onboy123]

Say Ivan, since you did mention wanting the Mustang tune in your garage, how about I give it to you? It certainly seems to fit your style more than it does mine, and I just can't bring myself to refine it from the current 70% to around 80%-85%, which would be satisfactory for me.

 

[krenkme]

WOW and thank you to all testers. Very unexpected, and pleased with all the love for my '08 Challenger. I set out to make a car that a person, such as myself (bad driver), could make a green lap around the Ring. Never would I have thought that it would be as well received by the testers. So again, thank you all

 

[ugabugaz]

Say Ivan, since you did mention wanting the Mustang tune in your garage, how about I give it to you? It certainly seems to fit your style more than it does mine, and I just can't bring myself to refine it from the current 70% to around 80%-85%, which would be satisfactory for me.

Bad, Bad, STAHP IT!

Bribing testers eh Onboy? Would be more useful BEFORE actual testing but still, STAHP!

 

[IvanOffalich]

That would be awesome, OnBoy. I'd like to spend more time with that car.

Ugabugaz, I agree. The bribing would have been better during the contest. hehe

Krenke, the only thing that was surprising to me was the car choice being right. I didn't expect to like it so much, but I did. Your tune of it wasn't a surprise since I have at least a couple of your cars in my garage; you know one of them already.

 

[Onboy123]

Bad, Bad, STAHP IT!

Bribing testers eh Onboy? Would be more useful BEFORE actual testing but still, STAHP!

It's not bribing, it's just he appreciates the car more than I do, and since I couldn't be bothered with it to begin with, I may as well.

 

[MrGrado]

Thanks testers for the comments on my entry. This tune is very close to the tune I built in December. A huge amount of work went into this to get every bit of performance I could find in the settings, so I'm pleased that people enjoyed driving it.

The reason I spent so much time tuning this in December was that I really enjoyed driving it. It's just a shame that the car doesn't have enough performance to compete with other cars at the same PP level.

 

[IvanOffalich]

Thanks testers for the comments on my entry. This tune is very close to the tune I built in December. A huge amount of work went into this to get every bit of performance I could find in the settings, so I'm pleased that people enjoyed driving it.

The reason I spent so much time tuning this in December was that I really enjoyed driving it. It's just a shame that the car doesn't have enough performance to compete with other cars at the same PP level.

Thank you for introducing me to a car that I might not have gotten to know otherwise.

 

[iainoflo85]

Thank you for introducing me to a car that I might not have gotten to know otherwise.

Yeah, I never even drove it once before this shoot out. Very impressed by it now, thanks MrGrado.

 

[Onboy123]

So…where's the rest of the 550PP results? We all done already?

 

[IvanOffalich]

Where's my Mustang? hehe

 

[CSLACR]

So…where's the rest of the 550PP results? We all done already?

They're coming, I've done 5 so far, going to finish them tomorrow night shortly before the postponement deadline.

 

[morfastmadboy]

450 PP FEEDBACK

Cykosis Solstice

I've noticed that some cars are given a slight bit of loose end to get a faster time.Mastering this driving technique has been difficult for me,but when accomplished,the results are very rewarding.Unfortunately I could not bring it all together for a good and proper lap time.Braking under duress seemed to provoke a snap oversteer,and in spite of my best efforts I couldn't control the rear end.Judging from the other times,this one is all on me.Apologies.​

[/I][/LEF

Ridox Silvia K

The car was a bit distracting as I was trying to figure out what it would do next.With a bit of practice it became a bit more controllable,and I really liked the way the car would brake hard at the higher speeds.

Theo BMW M Coupe

What a pleasant ride through the mountains.A bit slow at the top end,but handles very well.3 perfect laps without a single misstep.Bravo.

DBaka Skyline​

T]​

]

The front end seemed a bit light and took some getting used to.But with some time I was rewarded with very precise steering and braking,resulting in a very fun ride.​

Despy Silvia Spec R

Great handling and grip with no tail wagging or wheelspin at all.You can really find the edge with this car,and it will forgive you if you get out of line.Safe,fast,and a must-have for me.

ugabugaz Calloway

A hefty feel to the car,with performance that is very predictable.This setup soaks up all the road imperfections while staying very agile and fast in the corners.It took a while to get the gearing sorted,and the car felt a bit stiff at first,but the cars a dream to drive.

Shmogt Toyota 86

This car is quick,light and well balanced.It made me want to attack every corner and straightaway with reckless abandon.Throttle precision is necessary,but if you keep that in mind,you will be rewarded with an absolutely thrilling ride.

MrGrado Holden

Easy to drive with excellent handling.A quick and able ride made for a really fast lap.A bit slower in the final straightaway,but it doesnt matter for me since I got there so fast.

Trackripper Jag S

This car left me scratching my head while looking at its final times.During each lap I was sure the times would be much slower than they turned out to be.Handling was intuitive gearing was perfect,I almost felt like a passenger.Two thumbs up!

Onboy Mustang

Sometimes its very difficult for me to find fault with some of these cars,this one being a fine example.This car allowed me to hold a higher speed through and out of corners,permitted deeper braking zones and quicker retake of throttle.ZOOM!There was a slight loss of traction at high speed turn in,but that may be the drivers lack of skill handling high performance Nurb setups while going WAY TOO FAST.Nice job,Onboy.

Acsr Infiniti Coupe

Thrilling.Breathtaking.(and thats just from watching the replay) A very slight lack of top speed in the final straightaway is the only thing I can think of saying about what was a very fun ride.The high end of the powerband is where I got my best results,and this screaming machine took everything I could give,and never once got out of line.Sweetness on 4 wheels.

krenkme Challenger

Holy Heavy Metal! Theres just no way to avoid it,my what a great big car you have sir.Another surprise for me when noting the final time,as this car seems to be in a tuned state of denial regarding its size and weight.It handles the uneven road surface easily and without distraction,is surprisingly quick and agile,and about the only shortcoming would be running out of steam in the final straightaway.The rear end tended to step out if I got too aggressive (driver error) and when all is said and done,a good time was had by all.Two hefty thumbs up!

Mikegt3 Infiniti g35

OK now its getting real difficult.Perfectly set gearbox,quick and fast (theres a difference I think.This car is both)turning is excellent at both low and high speed,little to no weight shift,grip to spare,and a final straightaway top speed matching the Ruffs.And the paint job is very nice too.Magnifique.

Praiano Aston Martin

Very well balanced car in turns with no weight transfer,not a squeal from the tires,excellent throttle uptake,and of course a perfect gearbox.Easy to be aggressive with and forgiving when overtly so.It was alot of fun for me to use manual transmission on your car sir.Fun.Fast.Fabulous.

CSLACR Ruff 3400

I had a bit more fun testing this one.A well set up car gives me confidence to push the limits to the max.The fun was in the carefully executed thrashing it recieved at my hands (and feet) while keeping up a red hot pace.The only thing I noticed was a wee bit of wheel spin under maximum throttle,but that aside,this car was a joy.

Esoxhntr Ruff 3400

Precise to the point of intuition,its almost like the car already knows where its going.auto pilot.Eats up the bumps eager to get on the throttle at all times,straightens curves and shortens straightaways.In a word....Perfection!​

 

[luv2drive]

550pp Results:

Some really great drives in this group as well!

Feedback coming shortly...

1. 6:57.719 - praiano63 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08
2. 6:58.204 - mike_gt3 - Luxus IS-F '07
3. 7:01.872 - XDesperado67 - Jaguar XKR Coupe '10
4. 7:02.657 - Onboy123 - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 '04
5. 7:03.391 - wildheart90 - Lexus IS-F '07
6. 7:03.434 - shmogt - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 '04
7. 7:03.839 - CSLACR - Audi R8 4.2 FSI '07
8. 7:03.929 - ACSR421 - Lexus LFA '10
9. 7:05.224 - Theo777 - Spyker C8 Laviolette '01
10. 7:08.109 - DigitalBaka - Ferrari 458 Italia '09
11. 7:11.334 - Ugabugaz - Ferrari Enzo '02
12. 7:15.686 - Krenkme - Dodge Challenger R/T '70
13. 7:18.062 - Ridox2JZGTE - Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec '97