FITT Race Car Tuner Challenge

Which two tracks should we use? (choose two)

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Vote for old car to be entered in. No on the change

Some interesting comments on my cars so far.

I might actually do some testing, seeing as how I'm done with Finals now...
 
If it were needed I'd say sure, but it's not since Desperado offered to fix the problem.
So a "no" vote from me.
 
Jackthalad
Just because the Clio is probably better than the Integra ;)
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No. I think it is just the principal of the deadline. Just wanted to make sure that we settled this in a fair way. So Jackthalad, if you're cool with it, XDesperado can the car and share it for you.

Glad to have you in the competition and happy that we have a conclusion that other entrants also find acceptable.
 
No worries at all thank you for at least trying. And Desperado thank you also for taking the time to help me enter a car.
 
Motor City Hami
No. I think it is just the principal of the deadline. Just wanted to make sure that we settled this in a fair way. So Jackthalad, if you're cool with it, XDesperado can the car and share it for you.

Glad to have you in the competition and happy that we have a conclusion that other entrants also find acceptable.
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Jackthalad
No worries at all thank you for at least trying. And Desperado thank you also for taking the time to help me enter a car.
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Car is purchased, tune applied, painted Honda Samba Green Pearl, given the number 42 and my Bobs are running the GVS300 right now. Early goings but took the lead on lap 3 and looking good through lap 6. Having a little trouble shaking the Impreza in second so tire wear could play a factor...:cheers:

Update finally got a little space on the Impreza. Started passing traffic on lap 13. Impreza pitted on lap 17, I held on until lap 18. Fresh set of SS tires and 10liters fuel along with my second Bob. Currently leading the second place RX-7 Spirit R by over 35seconds on lap 21.👍👍
 
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@Jackthalad after my Bobs won the GVS300 I ran 10 laps at Spa to make sure the car was fully broken in. After engine rebuild it was still only at 498PP so added the Sports Air Filter then adjusted the power limiter to 98.7% to bring it to 500PP. Every thing else is a match for your posted tune. Putting the car on share now.👍👍

Jackthalad's entry is being shared by XDesperado67
 
A question about the scoring. I read the post about scoring before I entered the competition and thought it was a unique idea that would make for interesting scoring. However, I didn't notice a possible small discrepancy and wanted to point it out in case it was a mistake because it will affect scoring to some degree and it will definitely affect both of the outcomes to some degree and could well affect who wins or places in the competition.

In the example provided originally, for the purposes of calculating points a lap time of 1:21.688 becomes 121.688 (the " : " is missing). In fact 1:21.688 is technically 81.688 seconds. At Spa a 2:30 for example, using the stated formula, would become 230.000 when in fact it's 150 in terms of seconds. Now mathematically this is completely incorrect since the first numbers to the left of the colon represent a block of 60 time units, not 100

How it would play out in practical terms is this. Say the fastest lap at Spa is a 2:30 and the next fastest lap is 2:31. Under the stated method the points would be awarded as follows:

1st - 10 points
2nd - 9.96 points (230/231x10)

Using the actual lap time in seconds it would be:

1st - 10 points
2nd - 9.93 points (150/151x10)

Small difference right? Depends on how you look at it. In absolute terms, it's only .03 between them but in relative terms the original gap is .04 between the drivers under the stated method, using actual seconds it's .07 which is a different of .03/.04 or an extra 75% gap in points.

Likely to make no difference right? True, until you take into account the bonus point awarded for Driver's Choice. In theory, a driver could come from 3 seconds back or even much more, and win the competition if he had a car that was an exceptional drive and the cars ahead of him were faster, but more finicky. Using a 3 second gap for example:

Calculating the stated way the gap would be .13 points

Calculated using the mathematically correct formula the gap would be .20 points

In a group of 20 cars, each vote for the bonus point comprises 1/20th of the bonus point total or between 0 and .05. That would mean that in order to win using the mathematically correct formula, you would need to garner 4 extra points compared to the lap time leader to tie him for the lead and 5 extra points to win outright. Using the stated formula, you would only need to gather 3 extra points to win as that would average out to .15 extra bonus points and you only need .13 to overcome the gap.

Of course either method of calculating can work, but I thought I'd point it out just in case someone else noticed this towards the end of the competition and the results came into question based on a calcuation. Just my opinion, but I'd rather stick to what is mathematically correct as you can't really argue or disagree with the correct mathematics, and use total seconds to do the calculation rather than equating 60 to 100 seconds and skewing the formula.

I point this out because using the formula either way, the gap in terms of points awarded for lap time is likely going to be very small. I'd be surprised if the top 5 or more weren't within .10 points or less calculated one way, and .16 or less calculated the other way. This means it's most likely going to come down to driver's choice points, and calculating points one way or the other means the DC points are relatively more or less important. 3 or 4 test drivers deciding they like one car more than another could very well determine the outcome of the competition under one method, but under the other method it might take 5, 6 or 7.
 
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Johnnypenso
A question about the scoring.
Click to expand...

You are an engineer, right? Or a programmer? Or a math teacher?

I have used this scoring system for years. I ran a remote controlled car racing series called the Carpet Racing League with 100 entries per month, and used this system. Yes, you are correct that it is more mathematically accurate to do the way that you pointed out (convert to seconds), but it is more difficult to explain to people new to the method. It is also more time consuming and more difficult to check for typos.

In any case, the finishing order will not very much as long as everyone's lap time is on the same minute. There is a real problem if a few people run a 1:58 and everyone else is above 2:00. Then all things must be converted to seconds for it to work. I chose the short cut way of not converting for ease since the lap times are near the middle of the minute for both tracks.
 
@MCH You may want to put on the first page that I'm sharing Jackthalad's car for him, in case a tester misses the above post I made.👍👍
 
ugabugaz
You could easily do the conversion with something like Excel.
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It could be done in Google docs too. If it's that big of an issue, we are early enough in testing that I can change it.

Three votes:
Johnny for using seconds
ugabugaz for using seconds
???
 
Motor City Hami
It could be done in Google docs too. If it's that big of an issue, we are early enough in testing that I can change it.

Three votes:
Johnny for using seconds
ugabugaz for using seconds
???
Click to expand...

I third the seconds. I just wanted to say that.
 
O.k. Found a quick way to do the conversion yet still allow for me to type them as they look; eg. 139.878. Sheets updated.

I think I have also captured all currently posted times/DC.

Also, I added a column to make it easy to see who currently has the fastest average lap time.
 
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Motor City Hami
You are an engineer, right? Or a programmer? Or a math teacher?
Click to expand...

Haha, not even close, but I did complete 2nd year, University level Statistics.:dopey:

I have completed testing for all the FR's I have so far. As far as I can tell I'm still missing FR's from the following:

C-ZETA
krenkme
Onboy123
ugabugaz

I'll like to post all my results simultaneously, so the sooner I get these the sooner they get posted.
 
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Johnnypenso
Haha, not even close, but I did complete 2nd year, University level Statistics.:dopey:

I have completed testing for all the FR's I have so far. As far as I can tell I'm still missing FR's from the following:

C-ZETA
krenkme
Onboy123
ugabugaz

I'll like to post all my results simultaneously, so the sooner I get these the sooner they get posted.
Click to expand...
Oh man making us all wait on Onboy is cruel and unusual punishment!:crazy::lol:
 
I also think I will wait to post my results until I am finished testing. I only have seven more tunes to go! At the rate of three tests each day I should be finished by the end of this weekend. So far, all the cars have made it back from testing body panels still intact.:dopey:
 
Johnnypenso
Haha, not even close, but I did complete 2nd year, University level Statistics.:dopey:

I have completed testing for all the FR's I have so far. As far as I can tell I'm still missing FR's from the following:

C-ZETA
krenkme
Onboy123
ugabugaz

I'll like to post all my results simultaneously, so the sooner I get these the sooner they get posted.
Click to expand...

:banghead: sorry about that. I assumed you'd be using your other account. FR will be sent as soon as I can :dopey:
 
Last test completed for 500pp at Spa. Results post updated. The track/car combo for this was spot on. Thanks to the tuners for producing cars that were most enjoyable to drive. Now on to Monza, where i'm hoping for more of the same.
 
Looks like my 500PP tune is kinda off the radar - I'll admit, I didn't have a great deal of time to tune it up. But I am awfully close to that top 3 for the 625PP class. With that, I have now jinxed any chance I had whatsoever of reaching the top 3 for the 625PP class.
 
In 20 minutes or so, only Uga will be left for testing..but still no FR yet..unless he snuck in under another name...
 
While my reviews might include any kind of comment or feedback I feel could be useful, I judged my Driver’s Choice points solely on the criteria provided:

Outstanding – With this tune I will be spending a considerable amount of time with my team… in the winner’s circle (1 bonus point).
Driveable – With my superior driving talents I should be able to win some/lose some with this tune (1/2 a bonus point).
Holy Crap – If I were forced to race this car I would fear for my life. I could crash and burst into flames at any moment (no bonus).

For me this meant I did not take into account what I felt the car’s overall potential was, how close the tune was to that potential, possible tire wear issues etc. My only concerns were speed, grip and drivability, which are the three things I can evaluate that are likely to get me to the winner’s circle (1 point), podiums or good finishes (1/2) or which I felt had a great probability to force me into a major error under pressure or were too slow to compete (0)


ACSR421 - Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car – 1:39.447 - First car I drove which in hindsight could be a mistake because every car after it was compared directly to this tune, which was just about perfect for me. Huge amount of grip front and rear throughout all corners. Predictable, safe and able to be pushed to the limit with little fear of failure. Slight issue with getting the power down out of the first chicane but easily manageable.

Driver’s Choice – 1

XDesperado67 - BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 – 1:40.607 - After ACSR’s Ford GT this car felt absolutely sluggish and unresponsive but was very safe and predictable once you adapted to the tune. Able to run decently fast and consistent laps with little chance of getting into trouble so long as you didn’t push the car beyond it’s limits because you couldn’t just fling it about to get it headed in the right direction, it wasn’t responsive enough. Would do well in a longer endurance race type of setting where consistency and steady pacing are more important.

Driver’s Choice – ½

CSLACR - Corvette C5-R (C5) '00 – 1:41.130 – Another pretty much perfect tune. Probably the best at getting the power down out of the chicanes along with Rido’s Lexus. Completely predictable everywhere on the track. Great grip throughout all corners. May have benefitted from a little less downforce and a little more power in terms of lap times. Would have really shined on a twistier course. A little slower than the fastest cars but so easy to drive it deserves maximum DC points.

Driver’s Choice – 1

MotorCtyHamilton - Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car – 1:39.202 – Not quite as responsive as ACSR’s Ford GT but exceptional nonetheless. Slight issue getting the power down out of the chicanes, common to many of the cars. Hard to find any real fault with this tune either.

Driver’s Choice – 1

Ealirendur - Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car – 1:40.658 - I’m fairly certain that with a little work on the LSD (little too strong for my tastes in both Accel and Initial) and a bit of suspension adjustment that this car could have been in the high 1:39’s and been much more user friendly. Although I was able to adapt to some degree, you had to be careful with the throttle at several key points in the lap or you’d lose the back end. Turn in was a little too sharp for the rear grip this car had, so I think you also could have swapped some front downforce for rear downforce and made the car much more balanced. Was hard to get consistent, repeatable laps and unfortunately it’s not a car I would enjoy driving in a longer race. In a weaker field of cars this might have been ok but with such a strong fleld the DC points have to take the hit unfortunately.

Driver’s Choice – 0

Ridox2JZGTE (PSN: GTP_Orido) - Lexas IS-F RM – 1:42.065 - Having test driven this car for a series a few months ago, I honestly wasn’t expecting much. I was pleasantly surprised, once I adapted to the lower grip just how well it handled and how smooth it was around the track. However, the high brake balance was a major flaw causing the front tires to go red with any prolonged, heavy braking. Lucky for me I’ve been driving without ABS for a couple of months now so adapting by using only partial pressure and listening for tire squeal was relatively easy, but I suspect DS3 users or even wheel users not used to that, might have a problem. The LSD Accel was a little low as well, causing the inside tire to go red in Parabolica for quite a while but the flipside of that was that it was stable when getting the power down to the ground. By default I have to give this tune a 0 for driver’s choice not because I think I would crash and burn in it because it was quite safe, but because I don’t think I can meet the criteria for the first two choices. Sorry Rido.

Driver’s Choice - 0

Onboy123 - Chevrolet Camaro LM Race Car – 1:40.438 – Exceptional handling, balance, grip, drivability and just about everything else. Best braking of any car tested.

Driver’s Choice – 1

C-ZETA - Citroën GT by Citroën Race Car – 1:39.784 – Very fast car with a potential to be on par with the fastest cars of the group but suffered slightly for me by being a little unstable under hard acceleration when the car was exiting the chicanes or off balance. A weaker LSD Accel and Initial setting would probably do wonders for this car and inspire a lot more confidence and lower lap times. As is though, it’s still a very good car and would probably do well in a race scenario.

Driver’s Choice – ½

krenkme - BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 – 1:41.034 – The car handled well enough with good front and rear lateral grip, turn in was good. My biggest problem with the car was that I had trouble getting the power down. Out of the chicanes was tough but any time the car was under heavy lateral g’s the back end wanted to break loose under hard acceleration. Not unusual in this HP range with the downforce on the tune, unfortunately it must be compared to other cars in the competition that resolved the problem quite effectively. Car would probably have benefitted sacrificing some of the HP for downforce.

Driver’s Choice – ½

ugabugaz - Pagani Zonda LM Race Car – 1:40.165 – Another car I struggled in getting the power down. Turn in and overall grip were good but I felt the LSD was a little strong for my tastes in that I spent much of my time worrying about whether I was going to spin, rather than focusing on being fast. Although it’s not part of my rating, I did check the tuning notes and found nothing about where to shift. In tuning the street version of the car which has a similar power band, I’ve noticed dramatic improvements in lap times by short shifting to avoid the redline where the power drops off huge. I’d guess that would be worth 6-7/10ths at this track, maybe more.


Driver’s Choice – ½

Johnnypenso - Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car – 1:39.131 – Exceptionally fast, well balanced, easy to get the power down just about anywhere. A little slow to respond in the chicanes but relatively safe and predictable. Fastest of the bunch but just barely.

Driver’s Choice - 1
 
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Thanks for the test Johnny very nice times.👍👍
Afraid your right when you say it felt sluggish compared to the Ford GTs and some of the other cars. Really think it's the basic aerodynamics of the car that hold it back on the top end. Watched the Ford's, Viper and Zonda all pull away from me down the straights when we raced the cars online.:drool:
 
Johnnypenso
ugabugaz - Pagani Zonda LM Race Car – 1:40.165 – Another car I struggled in getting the power down. Turn in and overall grip were good but I felt the LSD was a little strong for my tastes in that I spent much of my time worrying about whether I was going to spin, rather than focusing on being fast. Although it’s not part of my rating, I did check the tuning notes and found nothing about where to shift. In tuning the street version of the car which has a similar power band, I’ve noticed dramatic improvements in lap times by short shifting to avoid the redline where the power drops off huge. I’d guess that would be worth 6-7/10ths at this track, maybe more.
[/COLOR][/B]
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I tuned and drove my car with an Automatic Transmission, hence no shifting notes ;). Transitioning from Online to Offline made the car a bit harsher. Maybe that's why you had trouble putting the power down - though I will admit, I left the car a bit on the edge.
 
Johnnypenso
Onboy123 - Chevrolet Camaro LM Race Car – 1:40.438 – Exceptional handling, balance, grip, drivability and just about everything else. Best braking of any car tested.
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Well…uhh…that's a surprise. I'd have thought I'd be hearing complaints of the car being a bit of an arse in low speed corners and such, glad to see it's fairing better in your hands.
 
Johnnypenso
Ridox2JZGTE (PSN: GTP_Orido) - Lexas IS-F RM – 1:42.065 - Having test driven this car for a series a few months ago, I honestly wasn’t expecting much. I was pleasantly surprised, once I adapted to the lower grip just how well it handled and how smooth it was around the track. However, the high brake balance was a major flaw causing the front tires to go red with any prolonged, heavy braking. Lucky for me I’ve been driving without ABS for a couple of months now so adapting by using only partial pressure and listening for tire squeal was relatively easy, but I suspect DS3 users or even wheel users not used to that, might have a problem. The LSD Accel was a little low as well, causing the inside tire to go red in Parabolica for quite a while but the flipside of that was that it was stable when getting the power down to the ground. By default I have to give this tune a 0 for driver’s choice not because I think I would crash and burn in it because it was quite safe, but because I don’t think I can meet the criteria for the first two choices. Sorry Rido.
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Thanks for the review JP, that is awesome time. I have made the same mistake as my past tunes, putting BB at high value:scared:, I should have lowered the BB to manageable number for wheels and stick testers who uses ABS 1 or ABS 0 :ouch: I would recommend lower both front and rear by 3 or 4, but that's too late now as the test has been done.

The LSD, I decided to go for inside wheelspin than outside, playing it safe for testers, don't want the car snap into the sand trap:nervous: And other testers might have noticed the car tendency to understeer on certain corners ( Lesmo and Parabolica for example ), I have tuned the car in a way that trail braking would be necessary to help rotate the car when braking into a corner ( without ABS ), I totally forgot that with ABS 1, this is hard to achieve as the nature of the assist will cause understeer in certain situation ( full power braking instead of threshold or trail braking). Fortunately, you test was done with ABS 0, so it didn't become an issue.
 
XDesperado67
@Jackthalad after my Bobs won the GVS300 I ran 10 laps at Spa to make sure the car was fully broken in. After engine rebuild it was still only at 498PP so added the Sports Air Filter then adjusted the power limiter to 98.7% to bring it to 500PP. Every thing else is a match for your posted tune. Putting the car on share now.👍👍

Jackthalad's entry is being shared by XDesperado67
Click to expand...

Thanks alot dude, much appreciated!! :)
 

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