Ford Blames US Government for V8 Discontinuation

[BKGlover]

I can tell you that there is even more to come on this subject. As a person who works as an Engineer in this industry I know that the regulations are in the process of becoming even more severe. There are already laws in place for the auto industry that effects all manufacturers in all countries. Four cylinders are quickly becoming the norm and as it stands now all manufacturers must have the majority of there vehicles equipped with these motors.
But all in all we have no choice. Eventually we have to accept the fact that there is too much pollution and the price of fuel will continue to rise. All of us are to blame - we like to drive our big suv`s and trucks to the local store just to buy a litre of milk !!!. It sucks but what`s done is done.

If I could afford to downsize, don't you think I would? Some of us NEED the bigger vehicles because we need all the space, or need the capacity, or the ability to haul whatever. If I went and bought a small car right now, even if I made the payments it would still end up repossessed because I can't afford it, not even a compact, and I don't expect anyone is gonna buy me a new car to help fight pollution.

Smog is bad, but get beyond NYC, LA, Houston, and other major metros it isn't nearly as bad because the population isn't stacked on top of itself. It's also just one form of pollution, what about coal burning, slash-and-burn farming, the ever popular dumping into rivers.

If the world wanted to be more economical, it could be done in short order, but that cost money, and money makes the world go 'round, and humans are driven by greed.

 

[Exorcet]

But all in all we have no choice. Eventually we have to accept the fact that there is too much pollution and the price of fuel will continue to rise. All of us are to blame - we like to drive our big suv`s and trucks to the local store just to buy a litre of milk !!!. It sucks but what`s done is done.

Don't look at me, I hate SUV's and I'm asking for carbon fiber everywhere. As far as having no choice, I'd say no. I don't really like the regulations. We should choose where we conserve and we shouldn't be penalized for our needs (and some people need big vehicles). There would be a natural trend toward clean and fuel economy (because people like healthy and low cost) but it also wouldn't really impact specialized areas like supercars. For my daily driver, I didn't need any government regulation to go after low fuel consumption, it was no-brainer. I'd even say I wish that the car was a little lighter which would further its efficiency. Eventually I want to own a car for track days, but in that I'm not concerned so much on the environmental footprint, but it probably won't matter given that I won't be using it all that much.

Meanwhile I've focused a bit more on efficiency in my home since I don't have any kind of desire for a flashy house. I don't use more than I need and where I can I use the most efficient technology.

 

[05XR8]

Isn't this all about the average numbers for pollution? If the highest selling vehicle in the USA is the F-150 (diesel I presume). The Fiesta in the UK. The highest in all of Europe, the Golf. Mazda 3 in Australia. The Aqua in Japan. Golf in China.

I wouldnt even know if the US sold enough V8s to make a dent compared to 4-cylinders. The V8 can be around as long as the figures get fiddled around. As was mentioned, car makers may be forced to make at least one 4-cylinder engine. Doesnt mean the V8 will get killed off.

Weren't the first ever cars, "automatic", so to speak? The manual transmission came out, now things are reverting back to making the automatic sexy for manual drivers. If the V8 dies, so should the 6-cylinder. 4-cylinder petrol and diesel, have proven their weight to carry any load. Doesn't make the V8 redundant.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I can tell you that there is even more to come on this subject. As a person who works as an Engineer in this industry I know that the regulations are in the process of becoming even more severe. There are already laws in place for the auto industry that effects all manufacturers in all countries. Four cylinders are quickly becoming the norm and as it stands now all manufacturers must have the majority of there vehicles equipped with these motors.
But all in all we have no choice. Eventually we have to accept the fact that there is too much pollution and the price of fuel will continue to rise. All of us are to blame - we like to drive our big suv`s and trucks to the local store just to buy a litre of milk !!!. It sucks but what`s done is done.

For an engineer it surprised me that you said the fuel bit considering the oil companies have quite the map of where to mine and the lobbies in which to do it with. As long as each U.S. President wants to keep riding the Terror fear train and trying to get the oil business fully to the U.S. and Canada there isn't much to worry about in price. As one also in engineering and with many friends in engineering, I can say that there are ways to engineer this and the politics are so fickle that what is as of now set up for the future can be tweeked or made less severe. There will still be plenty of people driving their big vehicles, and the moment those markets dry up then the whole "it's happening" fear train can start.

 

[McLaren]

I don't really agree.

The entire legacy of the car revolves around its V8? Really?

I agree on the fact it should have come with a V8, amongst other things. I already attribute the car's legacy to giving Ferrari the middle finger.

 

[homeforsummer]

If the highest selling vehicle in the USA is the F-150 (diesel I presume)

Nope, petrol. Split between V8s and turbocharged V6s. V8s still make up a large proportion of sales in the U.S. thanks largely to trucks - even though they're not used so much in regular passenger cars any more.

Weren't the first ever cars, "automatic", so to speak? The manual transmission came out, now things are reverting back to making the automatic sexy for manual drivers. If the V8 dies, so should the 6-cylinder. 4-cylinder petrol and diesel, have proven their weight to carry any load. Doesn't make the V8 redundant.

That's a highly, highly simplistic argument, to the point where it has no bearing whatsoever on reality.

To suggest that drivers are reverting back to automatics because manufacturers are making them 'sexy' is an inane assertion. Drivers are reverting to automatics because they're offering greater performance, ease of use and efficiency all at once. Consumers like all those things and see little reason to expend extra effort on something which is less fuel efficient and slower.

And no, the first vehicles weren't 'automatic', they were effectively direct-drive. Realistically, the road vehicles at the dawn of motoring had either a simplistic, single-speed transmission*, or a manual gearbox - albeit one quite removed from those we're familiar with today.

Although we've already established that the article in the OP was bunkum and Ford isn't really canning V8s through governmental pressure, if they did, it would in no way have any bearing on the viability of smaller engines and cylinder counts. That a turbocharged V6 can haul the same as a naturally-aspirated V8 doesn't mean that if the V8 is dropped, so too should the V6 - when you remove hauling (just one checkbox on an engine's list of jobs) from the equation, the V6 should theoretically be more fuel efficient**, lighter, easier to package etc too. Four-cylinders more so.

The V8 isn't redundant as long as manufacturers find ways to sneak it through emissions legislation and fuel economy hoops - and as long as consumers keep buying them. Ultimately if it dies it'll be because the majority of consumers don't want them any more, proportional to how many consumers are swayed by the economy benefits of smaller engines.


* If there's any parallel with the modern world at all in this, it's that electric vehicles now use a similar type of direct-drive transmission - though typically gearing is reduced, whereas I believe a very early vehicle (Karl Benz's Patent Motor Wagen to use an obvious, GT-related example) would have increased gearing.

** In theory. In practice, Ford has done a good job of making its Ecoboost engine barely more efficient than its V8. And not as reliable.

 

[TVR27]

I wish Henry Ford was alive !

 

[Clark]

Yeah 'cause the world really needs another Anti-Semetist.

 

[Clark]

Wrong thread :S

 

[05XR8]

Nope, petrol. Split between V8s and turbocharged V6s. V8s still make up a large proportion of sales in the U.S. thanks largely to trucks - even though they're not used so much in regular passenger cars any more.

That's a highly, highly simplistic argument, to the point where it has no bearing whatsoever on reality.

To suggest that drivers are reverting back to automatics because manufacturers are making them 'sexy' is an inane assertion. Drivers are reverting to automatics because they're offering greater performance, ease of use and efficiency all at once. Consumers like all those things and see little reason to expend extra effort on something which is less fuel efficient and slower.

And no, the first vehicles weren't 'automatic', they were effectively direct-drive. Realistically, the road vehicles at the dawn of motoring had either a simplistic, single-speed transmission*, or a manual gearbox - albeit one quite removed from those we're familiar with today.

Although we've already established that the article in the OP was bunkum and Ford isn't really canning V8s through governmental pressure, if they did, it would in no way have any bearing on the viability of smaller engines and cylinder counts. That a turbocharged V6 can haul the same as a naturally-aspirated V8 doesn't mean that if the V8 is dropped, so too should the V6 - when you remove hauling (just one checkbox on an engine's list of jobs) from the equation, the V6 should theoretically be more fuel efficient**, lighter, easier to package etc too. Four-cylinders more so.

The V8 isn't redundant as long as manufacturers find ways to sneak it through emissions legislation and fuel economy hoops - and as long as consumers keep buying them. Ultimately if it dies it'll be because the majority of consumers don't want them any more, proportional to how many consumers are swayed by the economy benefits of smaller engines.


* If there's any parallel with the modern world at all in this, it's that electric vehicles now use a similar type of direct-drive transmission - though typically gearing is reduced, whereas I believe a very early vehicle (Karl Benz's Patent Motor Wagen to

That new Polo GTI manual may argue those figures from the DSG when it drops down here. VW will show the way.

 

[homeforsummer]

That new Polo GTI manual may argue those figures from the DSG when it drops down here. VW will show the way.

I wouldn't count on it. I believe it'll be using the VW Group's 1.8 TFSI engine. In the Audi A3 using that engine and presumably the same transmission options, the DSG is 3mpg more efficient and a shade quicker to 60mph too.

 

[05XR8]

It tested same 0-60 because the manual has 70 more torque. It does use the 1.8 and use 6L/100km to the DSGs 5.6L/100km.

 

[Grandea GTR]

What causes that? Is it because the DSG saps some of the power away?

 

[05XR8]

What causes that? Is it because the DSG saps some of the power away?

From what ive read, the DSG is limited to its torque figure. the DSG may be engineered to handle more boost, but how much before there are problems? I dont know.

well, i guess this thread is done. where's the VW Polo GTI thread?

 

[homeforsummer]

It tested same 0-60 because the manual has 70 more torque. It does use the 1.8 and use 6L/100km to the DSGs 5.6L/100km.

Where are you getting those numbers?

I've just checked my industry resource (didn't realise the numbers were available already), and the ones I can find for the UK show the manual and DSG both at 6.7s to 100km/h or 62mph, both with the same 147mph top speed, and the manual at 47.1mpg to the DSG's 50.4mpg.

 

[05XR8]

TG Australia. Probably getting their numbers from the same VW figures release.

 

[homeforsummer]

TG Australia. Probably getting their numbers from the same VW figures release.

Huh, nevermind, for some reason when I read your post I read it as if the manual was quicker... I can't have been paying attention.

Anyway, it still doesn't really disprove what I said - the DSG still offers (in this case) similar performance with better economy. That's why people are opting for autos these days.

 

[05XR8]

Seems people opt for autos because either manuals aren't offered on some models and ease of use.

All my years in NYC, people chose autos because they didn't know how to drive manual. Plus, traffic plays a role in transmission choice in city driving. Of course, as you mentioned, today's transmissions are faster than manual shifting and are proven to be more efficient. But, things always change and it's a minute difference in reference to the polo GTI.

I'm done.

 

[RACECAR]

So, was someone so upset about the Ford GT being a V6, that they had to fabricate the worst article I've seen to incite some rage? That page is even more laughable then the people who are getting all upset about there not being a V8.


I'm just completely lost on what the need to make such a poory written piece like that was.

 

[niky]

If the naturally aspirated V8 dies out in the performance sports car market, (however remote that possibility may be) you will only have the customers to blame.

Making a naturally aspirated V8 meet emissions is still possible, and not any more difficult than making a four-cylinder motor meet those same demands.

But meeting those requirements while still making "competitive" amounts of power becomes a tricky question. The performance car market is all about perception of performance, and the non-stop game of one-upmanship has power numbers climbing stratospherically at all levels, from the basic, no frills pony-car to the stupidly powerful hybrid ultra-hyper-supercar.

I still remember when it was shocking for an exotic to make more than 500 horses. Nowadays, that's barely entry-level power for super-sedans, and we have iron bricks like the Charger putting out 707 ponies.

-

The death-knell has been sounded for high performance for decades. But from what I've seen, as long as there are customers willing to pay up front, there will always be fast cars. And as long as there are fanatics who crave V8 Mustangs, there will always be V8 Mustangs.

 

[Pupik]

dey takin r v8 tamayta jews away from us

They're responsible for the numerous Tamayta aerobag fail yours?

Don't forget, this the same government Gov't that mysteriously controls oil prices and flies false flags...so it's understandable that the article would be written in the same vein.