Ford Fiesta Thread: MK8 ST with 200 BHP 3cyl EcoBoost

[GT_Prologue5]

Actually... if practicality were all that counted, the Fit would still be selling like hotcakes.

Unfortunately it isn't. So there goes that idea.

People want style, they want power and they want more metal for their money. As soon as gas prices went down, people got back out of their Fits and into Civics and Accords again.

Well yes, the market is more aware of style these days, but MOST small cars are sold on how much **** you can put in it. The other reason Fit's don't sell like hotcakes is because the main sector of the automobile is the midsized-sedan, not the subcompact. Suprisingly enough, got my MT September issue today, and the Honda Fit beat the Ford Fiesta (even with the Dual-Clutch.) Sorry, though, I still want the Fiesta. Looks sweet, is better than most offerings, and has the whole rally/X Games thing behind it.

 

[niky]

Well yes, the market is more aware of style these days, but MOST small cars are sold on how much **** you can put in it. The other reason Fit's don't sell like hotcakes is because the main sector of the automobile is the midsized-sedan, not the subcompact. Suprisingly enough, got my MT September issue today, and the Honda Fit beat the Ford Fiesta (even with the Dual-Clutch.) Sorry, though, I still want the Fiesta. Looks sweet, is better than most offerings, and has the whole rally/X Games thing behind it.

Sounds similar to our review of the Mazda2. The Honda Fit is, hands down, a much more complete package and a better car overally, but the Mazda is the one I'd rather own.

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Funny thing about "bread and butter"... the Fit's sales shot up when fuel prices went through the roof, then it started losing a lot of volume as the economy tanked and fuel prices normalized. Fickle, fickle buyers in this class.

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FWD Escape? Hmmm... Ford's site shows the 2011 Escape at 23/28, while the V6 Mustang is 19/31. Typical. Bigger engine, gets longer cruising gear. Gets better EPA highway numbers, though city numbers are still lower.

 

[eSZee]

I love my 2010 FIT and owning it made me want another subcompact. Again, Mazda2 shot those plans down.

 

[Coxis]

I'd hate to think that my SVT Focus is the pinnacle of the hot hatch in the US in terms of overall performance in that 7+ years later nothing is better. And no, there isn't. I've never driven a better hot hatch in my life.

Isn't the WRX STi the pinnacle?

 

[GT_Prologue5]

Sounds similar to our review of the Mazda2. The Honda Fit is, hands down, a much more complete package and a better car overally, but the Mazda is the one I'd rather own.

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Funny thing about "bread and butter"... the Fit's sales shot up when fuel prices went through the roof, then it started losing a lot of volume as the economy tanked and fuel prices normalized. Fickle, fickle buyers in this class.

I could not drive a Mazda2 for one reason, even though it's an option, but it still disgusts me when you put these words together: 4 Speed Automatic.
And I bet Honda's 5-Speed is better than Mazda's 5-Speed. And the Fit's got more space, convience, and the looks have grown on me. Here's how I'd rate our small car class:

1. Honda Fit
2. Ford Fiesta
3. Nissan Versa
4. Mazda2
5. Nissan Cube
6. Scion xD
7. Chevrolet Aveo.

 

[eSZee]

Isn't the WRX STi the pinnacle?

MS3, WRX, GTI, all above the SVT.
Why exactly was the term HOT HATCH used in a Fiesta thread? Can someone explain?
Then again he did complain about skinny tires on an econobox so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[niky]

I could not drive a Mazda2 for one reason, even though it's an option, but it still disgusts me when you put these words together: 4 Speed Automatic.
And I bet Honda's 5-Speed is better than Mazda's 5-Speed. And the Fit's got more space, convience, and the looks have grown on me. Here's how I'd rate our small car class:

1. Honda Fit
2. Ford Fiesta
3. Nissan Versa
4. Mazda2
5. Nissan Cube
6. Scion xD
7. Chevrolet Aveo.

T'aint how many gears you have, it's how you use them.

Mazda's 4 speed auto has nearly the same overdrive ratio as the Honda Fit's 5-speed.

Acceleration numbers are just a few tenths off of each other... despite the Mazda2 giving up nearly 20 hp to the Honda.

And... the Mazda2's transient response is just as good, because Honda has god-awfully long intermediate gears between 2nd and 5th.

We drove these two cars back to back over a variety of roads, and the consensus was, there's no difference between them in terms of real world pace (and we drove hard) except in a drag race, where the shorter first gear gives the 5-speed an edge.

From a marketing point of view, the Mazda2's 4-speed AT is a disaster. In real life, it's not any worse than most 5s. Against a 6-speed auto, it's at a definite disadvantage in practical terms, as 6-speeds have both the ultra-short first gear ratio and properly spaced 2nd-4th ratios... as well as a tall 6th gear overdrive.

 

[YSSMAN]

Here's how I'd rate our small car class:

1. Honda Fit
2. Ford Fiesta
3. Nissan Versa
4. Mazda2
5. Nissan Cube
6. Scion xD
7. Chevrolet Aveo.

Hmmm. Based on what I know...

1. Ford Fiesta
2. Mazda 2
3. Fiat 500 (2011)
4. Honda Fit (Sport only)
5. MINI Cooper
6. Scion xD
7. Nissan Cube

The fun part is that everyone is suddenly deciding to spend money on their small car programs. I look forward to seeing what Hyundai/Kia turns up with next year. Furthermore, what the new Aveo might turn out like next year.

 

[Tornado]

Pfft. 500 for the win.


And the Cube is waaaayy better than the Scion. I've driven both (part of my ongoing "feign interest in buying a new car so I can test drive them all" program), and it was better in pretty much every way. I'd actually say it was better than the Fit, but mostly because I liked the seats better than because the car itself was better.

 

[YSSMAN]

I can't say with extreme confidence that the xD is better than the Cube, but knowing that it shares many of its bits and pieces with the Versa, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Not that the Versa was extremely bad in any way, it just wasn't all that good.

 

[Tornado]

Yeah, but the xD is basically a squared off Yaris, so it practically defines banality.

Of course, I'd get a 500 before either of them, so whatevs.

 

[Moglet]

The Fiesta is just a Mazda2 with 100kg of extra weight and an interior designed like a 1990s Alba stereo.

Nah, the interior is much worse than that.

 

[YSSMAN]

So I had a chance to drive a fully-loaded SES Fiesta tonight, and I have to say that I've come away from the car feeling both very impressed and very confused at the same time. Generally speaking, I love everything about the car and would be very happy to live with one on a daily basis, but it just isn't nearly as much fun to drive as I had thought it would be. Especially after having been inside a European-market model.

Simply put, the suspension is a bit too squishy, the throws in the gearbox are a bit too long, and I really found the gears to be a shade too tall. Even then, all could be forgiven if they put a decent set of summer tires on there. If Ford gets around to doing a "Sport" variant of the Fiesta ala the ol' SVT Focus, they'll hit the ball out of the park. But, having looked at Mazda3s in the same price range as what this Fiesta was (nearly $20K after everything was added on), no way. Not for that much money.

My guess is that a nicely done SE, with Sync, would be more than enough to keep me happy. I still have to drive a Mazda2 though. Just to see. I'm just glad that an American company is selling a small car you can be proud of (again).

 

[JCE]

My thoughts are similar except I'd actually opt for the base model with some aftermarket wheels/tires for better handling and use the left over monies saved for performance upgrades including but not limited to suspension. But I do agree that there needs to be a hot version from SVT (called ST most likely). I'd definitely buy an SVT badged anything.

 

[eSZee]

I'm assuming you drove the manual?
I agree about the suspension. It's very ford like, soft and not very sporty.

 

[niky]

So I had a chance to drive a fully-loaded SES Fiesta tonight, and I have to say that I've come away from the car feeling both very impressed and very confused at the same time. Generally speaking, I love everything about the car and would be very happy to live with one on a daily basis, but it just isn't nearly as much fun to drive as I had thought it would be. Especially after having been inside a European-market model.

Simply put, the suspension is a bit too squishy, the throws in the gearbox are a bit too long, and I really found the gears to be a shade too tall. Even then, all could be forgiven if they put a decent set of summer tires on there. If Ford gets around to doing a "Sport" variant of the Fiesta ala the ol' SVT Focus, they'll hit the ball out of the park. But, having looked at Mazda3s in the same price range as what this Fiesta was (nearly $20K after everything was added on), no way. Not for that much money.

My guess is that a nicely done SE, with Sync, would be more than enough to keep me happy. I still have to drive a Mazda2 though. Just to see. I'm just glad that an American company is selling a small car you can be proud of (again).

We're getting a Sport Version on top of the Style and Trend (Euro trim levels)... supposedly has different damper tuning and springs. As soon as the local test units are available, I'll have to give that one a go.

 

[Tornado]

I was actually thinking about giving one of these a whirl, so you've piqued my curiosity. But I'm still more curious about the Mazda2.

 

[YSSMAN]

I was told by the guys at the Mazda dealer that they won't be getting any 2's with sticks for a couple of weeks, but I'm more than welcome to take one for a spin when it arrives. They've been going through Fiestas like hotcakes there, the 2 certainly has a bit more niche appeal, apparently. I'm not entirely surprised, based on look/feel, it's going to cater to a slightly different crowd.

Honestly, the only options I'd want on the 2 would be discs on all corners and to have some way of getting Sync as an option.

 

[Keef]

Why do lame Americans insist on getting sedans? The Fiesta sedan is one of the worst looking things I've ever seen, and yet they buy it like crazy. GET A HATCHBACK, DAMN.

 

[eSZee]

Ford should've made a 5spd auto instead of the 6spd, IMO. I can see though that most people buying the car have no clue how short the gears are and are more than happy to have 6 gears instead of 5. Wonder what would happen if they offered a 5spd auto with taller gears and a $500-$1000 lower sticker price?

 

[Jim Prower]

Why do lame Americans insist on getting sedans? The Fiesta sedan is one of the worst looking things I've ever seen, and yet they buy it like crazy. GET A HATCHBACK, DAMN.

Explain why it's ugly. Please. I don't see it. In fact, I rather don't like the way Hatches look...

 

[Keef]

Ever seen one from the back?

What a terrible looking car! The overhang is 5 feet long, the proportions are just all wrong for a sedan, the thing looks dopey from the back, it looks fat and heavy and clumsy, the wheels look tiny, it's just an awful looking pig of a car.

The hatchback on the other hand looks much lighter and more nimble. Fun, happy, fit, proportional, youthful. As a matter of fact it was designed as a hatchback specifically for sale abroad, where good car design is appreciated. Americans typically don't give a crap what they're sedan looks like as long as it has an extra box hanging off the rear. The fact is that tiny cars like this simply do not look good in sedan body styles. They're just too short and too skinny in relation to how tall they have to be. Sedans don't start looking decent until they get Focus-sized, and Foci new and old all look pretty decent as both sedans and hatchbacks.

 

[Omnis]

Yssman, you actually thought a Fiesta would be fun to drive?

 

[Jim Prower]

Ever seen one from the back?

*snip*

What a terrible looking car! The overhang is 5 feet long, the proportions are just all wrong for a sedan, the thing looks dopey from the back, it looks fat and heavy and clumsy, the wheels look tiny, it's just an awful looking pig of a car.

*snap*

The hatchback on the other hand looks much lighter and more nimble. Fun, happy, fit, proportional, youthful. As a matter of fact it was designed as a hatchback specifically for sale abroad, where good car design is appreciated. Americans typically don't give a crap what they're sedan looks like as long as it has an extra box hanging off the rear. The fact is that tiny cars like this simply do not look good in sedan body styles. They're just too short and too skinny in relation to how tall they have to be. Sedans don't start looking decent until they get Focus-sized, and Foci new and old all look pretty decent as both sedans and hatchbacks.

I'll be honest...I don't see how it's a "trunk stuck onto a Hatchback." That rear glass is nowhere near vertical enough. Maybe it's because I owned the same Sedan bodyshape, only boxed off, for about three years, so I'm proportionately blind or something, but I don't think it looks horrible. In fact, I could argue that the Hatch looks like the Sedan with the rear lopped off, instead of the Hatch with a trunk shoved on - the roofline is pretty much the same until you get to the hatch's rear spoiler.

I think it's preconcieved notions rather than actual beauty saying things here. It's a Fiesta, it should be a Hatch, no questions asked. Why? Because it's a Fiesta.

If they'd added the trunk, literally, below the Hatch's rear glass, I could've given it to you. But they didn't, and really, the sedan doesn't look as bad to me as it does to you.

Then there's that matter of that they jacked the price up on the Hatch, so I kind of see that as the model for snobby euro-wannabes who can afford it. If they wanted to sell hatches, they would have offered that as the budget "S" model as well.

((Though, why did they cancel the 17" accessory wheel? why?!))

 

[homeforsummer]

Yssman, you actually thought a Fiesta would be fun to drive?

It's not an unreasonable assumption, given that since the mid nineties Fiestas have been the best in their class to drive. And by that I also don't mean "good for a subcompact", I mean good full stop. As in, you could spend double the price and still struggle to find things with as good a ride and handling mix.

What I do expect is that the version sold in the States has been "watered down" a little for whatever reason.

 

[Tornado]

I don't particularly care about hatch/sedan notions for the Fiesta, and I still think the sedan is as ugly as hell.

 

[eSZee]

That is the smallest trunk lid I've ever seen. Looks to be 6" deep.
I think the new FORD sedan look is a bit wonky. The TAURUS is the same way where the front hood, due to window line, looks higher than the trunk.

 

[JCE]

What I do expect is that the version sold in the States has been "watered down" a little for whatever reason.

And this pisses me off beyond my limits. I am SICK AND TIRED of stuff like this. In the 80's and 90's Japan doesn't send us the good stuff (games and cars) because we "might" not like or understand it. Americans are dumb and fat I guess, so no need to send something intelligent or sporty. This is now occurring with Europe. Please god don't send us anything sporty!

👎

This makes me grumpy!

 

[Keef]

...so I'm proportionately blind or something...

Ever seen a midget's finger? Yeah, it's a finger alright, but DAMN that think looks weird. Saying the Fiesta sedan and other subcompact sedans look normal is like saying midgets' fingers are perfectly average.

The main reason modern subcompact sedans look god awful is because of this ridiculous belt line trend, where the window sill and swoopy lines have to go from crotch-high in the front to chest-high in the back. Looks decent on a long car, looks proper and fast, but on a short stubby little sucker it just looks plain retarded.

((Though, why did they cancel the 17" accessory wheel? why?!))

A well designed car wouldn't need big giant goofy wheels to look right. The hatchback looks appropriate with the wheels we're getting, but the sedan looks like a gorilla sitting on caster wheels. Putting big 17s with rubber band tires under it would make it look that much more ridiculous.

 

[a6m5]

And this pisses me off beyond my limits. I am SICK AND TIRED of stuff like this. In the 80's and 90's Japan doesn't send us the good stuff (games and cars) because we "might" not like or understand it.

Ya, like the Europeans treated America any differently.