Ford Focus ST Seasonal Challenge Rigged???

[RobGT81]

Well, this challenge made me see I couldn't make the focus overstear on demand, no matter what settings. Not even the traditional sudden lift-off overstear.

Although I've never driven this car for real, I'm pretty sure big camber and positive toe in the front, no camber and negative toe in the rear, coupled with soft and high suspension in the rear should make it very loose. As in almost undrivable.

Tried a dab of left foot braking?

 

[CoolColJ]

Turning ABS off, should allow the rear to rotate, and definitely if you leave the brake bias to stock settings of 5:5, although 3:3 might be better due to the low grip tyres. But having an even brake bias like that would be like pulling the handbrake

 

[JJ72]

You don't actually have to make the thing oversteer, focus on the end that slides - the front. What you need is turn in grip and traction, the rear can be as dead as it wants unless you feel it dragging the car straight mid corner.

 

[VBR]

I tried this event the first night it was put up & could only manage 9 seconds off P1 after a few hours trying, then I heard about the Laptime Recovery Force (SRF) trick! Without any practice or additional tuning from last time, I jumped straight in with SRF turned on & won by several seconds on my first attempt, first lap was a 1'44 & all the rest were mid to high 1'41's. It definately gives you 3 to 4 seconds a lap advantage & is worth doing if you just wanna clear the event to get the cash & exp points or find it beyond your ability.


👍

 

[chrisr1984]

I was stuck on this event for about 40 tries, then eventually i started learning the car, track and the grip levels and i managed to do it 3 seconds infront.

I only used ABS-1.

All i can suggest is put time in and learn the car.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Tried a dab of left foot braking?

Turning ABS off, should allow the rear to rotate, and definitely if you leave the brake bias to stock settings of 5:5, although 3:3 might be better due to the low grip tyres. But having an even brake bias like that would be like pulling the handbrake

You don't actually have to make the thing oversteer, focus on the end that slides - the front. What you need is turn in grip and traction, the rear can be as dead as it wants unless you feel it dragging the car straight mid corner.

All I wanted was mild "healthy" overstear that would allow the car to enter sharper corners in a controlled "rotation".

What I've found, and CoolColJ seams to have found it as well, is that ABS is more than ABS.

It doesn't just prevent wheel lock, it also does dynamic brake distribution and prevents the wanted "rotation". I've found this while tuning a Honda Odyssey (which I bough because is the closest thing to my Stream, then found out it was 4WD and that it could be loads of fun fully modded). I was driving it around the 300k of Grand Valley to see how it coped with tire wear, and despite very aggressive settings, I could attack T1 carelessly. Then I switch ABS off... Even with rear brakes set to 1, you have to brake in a straight line or the car rotates. In any corner.

So SRF is more than Skid Recovery, and ABS is also more than Anti-lock. Which is kind of a good thing to me, as for me it's the perfect excuse to turn the only driving aid I still use(d), off

Settings however will have to be much different, less "aggressive", or the car will be always spinning round. It is great for drifting. Even a huge thing as the Odyssey I had fun with last night can do glorious four wheel drifts . Without using the e-brake. Which is a fine technique but rather brutal and un-elegant IMO

 

[CoolColJ]

ABS has some stability control built in, I guess to help control pad users out, but once you turn it off, weight transfer effects under braking are back in full force. Makes it feel like Enthusia now, and a whole lot harder, you can no longer dive into a turn and jam full force on the brakes and hope you make it though, like one usually does on Tsukuba with ABS on, you won't

My times with ABS off on Tsukuba are usually a good second slower than with.

PD should have a no ABS switch for online games, because it has a massive effect on driving and makes the driving approach a lot different. Braking down from 300+kph on La Sarthe as you approach the chicanes without ABS is pretty scary as you can no longer do it while angling in on the sweepers into the chicane.

Or the turns after the long straight on the Ring. Infact it makes Nurburgring that much more scary and harder!

Plus SuperGT does not have ABS in real life, and I doubt Karts have it either...

 

[shirakawaa]

Maybe they should add a more realistic implementation of ABS ("Min." before "1") with different characteristics according to the car age/era (in real life ABS systems keep getting better as time passes), or at least add a setting making it consistent in behavior.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Just tried the Focus, no ABS.

Not gonna make it without ABS without practicing the track first... must learn to brake all over again!

 

[RacingDriver725]

lmao what you need is more experience/skill.

 

[shirakawaa]

It's the ABS!
(or better, PD's implementation of the ABS)

With ABS off and a saner brake balancement (for example 5/3) I tested that it's possible to make the rear end follow the front end deeper into corners. There's not even need anymore of crazy rear toe out settings. In just a few tries - with ample margin of improvements - I've been able to quickly reach my older times with ABS 1.

The only problem is that it's quite hard to obtain consistent lap times with the ABS off...

 

[JJ72]

This is when a good set of pedals pays off.

 

[CoolColJ]

Squash ball under the brake pedal arm works great - feels exactly like a real brake pedal 👍

And since I left foot brake in GT5, I found that because the squash ball mod makes it feel like a real brake resistance wise, I'm able to left foot brake in my real car now

yeah ABS = 1 should feel like ABS=0, except you don't lock the brakes.
Then ABS= 5 should be like the current ABS=1, with graduations between 1 and 5.
Not sure what 5-10 does

 

[regnar]

Squash ball under the brake pedal arm works great - feels exactly like a real brake pedal 👍

And since I left foot brake in GT5, I found that because the squash ball mod makes it feel like a real brake resistance wise, I'm able to left foot brake in my real car now

yeah ABS = 1 should feel like ABS=0, except you don't lock the brakes.
Then ABS= 5 should be like the current ABS=1, with graduations between 1 and 5.
Not sure what 5-10 does

I'm going to give this one another go tonight, it's the only one of the bonus race 2 left to gold. About a second off of getting this one. I think the "squash ball" use in my case is for the stress it's causing.

 

[HaylRayzor]

I officially accept 2nd place.

Next.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Left foot is good. But it can only go so far when you use a manual gearbox and clutch.

I do have to reinforce the brake pedal. It's deep and soft as a clutch...

 

[regnar]

I was 1st on lap 4 with these settings

Tune everything to the limit while staying under the event restrictions, Catalytic Converter got it to 222bhp

Settings

Traction Control: 2
Skid Recovery: On
ABS:1
Everything else Off

Downforce
Front:0 Rear: 7

Transmission
Max speed: 230kmph

LSD:
Initial Torque: Front: 16
Acceleration Sensitivity: Front: 25
Braking Sensitivity: 20

Suspension Settings:
Ride Height: Front: -13 Rear: -4
Spring Rate: Front: 11.7 Rear: 5.8
Dampers (Extention) : Front: 4 Rear: 4
Dampers (Compression) : Front: 4 Rear: 4
Anti-Roll Bars: Front: 4 Rear: 4

Wheel Alignment
Camber Angle: Front: 2.5 Rear: 0.0
Toe Angle: 0.23 Rear: 0.03

Brakes
Front: 7 Rear: 5

Good setup 👍, tried many, finally achieved gold on it (last of the bonus race 2 to gold). intentionally made the Ford Focus pay while passing him on the backside of the course on the last lap, won by 3 seconds. What seemed like at least 40 tries at it, this tested my limits with the game controller.

 

[Dino 246 GT]

Wow. Eleven pages of comments. I am just glad to see that everyone else is having fun with this race as well. Alot of good set-up advice to consider.

 

[CoolColJ]

It's the ABS!
(or better, PD's implementation of the ABS)

With ABS off and a saner brake balancement (for example 5/3) I tested that it's possible to make the rear end follow the front end deeper into corners. There's not even need anymore of crazy rear toe out settings. In just a few tries - with ample margin of improvements - I've been able to quickly reach my older times with ABS 1.

The only problem is that it's quite hard to obtain consistent lap times with the ABS off...

Now, why did PD lump stability help or something like it into the ABS!?
There is already ASM for that, and Skid Recovery Force.
Another one of those PD things that makes you wonder....

 

[kremmen64]

I was trying it with Kingpin's setup and failing miserably - my lad comes in and on his second try takes the lead on Lap4 doing high 40's/low 41's and making it look generally far too easy.

Damn pesky kids

 

[RacingManiac]

Electronic Brake Force Distribution is lumped in most modern car's ABS system....they are just doing whats common, but obviously not very era sensitive....

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Have to be honest I really don't understand why some are struggling with this event. I managed gold on my 2nd attempt and actually passed the leader on the 4th lap and pulled quiet a lead.

 

[Synwraith]

Have to be honest I really don't understand why some are struggling with this event. I managed gold on my 2nd attempt and actually passed the leader on the 4th lap and pulled quiet a lead.

Were you using Skid Recovery Force ON?

If you were, then that may be why you didn't find this much of a challenge.

If you completed it without SRF and did it second try, using a setup that you came up with yourself, then much credit to you because it's an admirable achievement and one to be proud of 👍

All the best
Maz

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Were you using Skid Recovery Force ON?

If you were, then that may be why you didn't find this much of a challenge.

If you completed it without SRF and did it second try, using a setup that you came up with yourself, then much credit to you because it's an admirable achievement and one to be proud of 👍

All the best
Maz

If SRF is set to on in default then yes I did use it. I can't remember making any changes to the driving options or the set up of the car except turning TCS off.

I've been spending more of my time on the time trials and im currently ranked 8th around London. That im proud of. I only wish you could see how many people have attempted the time trials because it only shows the top 250.

 

[CoolColJ]

Electronic Brake Force Distribution is lumped in most modern car's ABS system....they are just doing whats common, but obviously not very era sensitive....

Somehow I don't think anything like that would prevent weight transfer effects. Oversteer under heavy braking, while turning should not be prevented by ABS

 

[tdk]

YO ADRIAN, I DID IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTT

I couldn't resist ramming his ass onto the wall in the end. I'll upload pics and a video in a bit.


edit-

Took me 4 tries by the way. The RX-7 challenge seems a lot harder, I tried it 3 times so far and I only managed to be off by 3 seconds.


edit-

 

[RacingManiac]

Somehow I don't think anything like that would prevent weight transfer effects. Oversteer under heavy braking, while turning should not be prevented by ABS

Thats what it is supposed to do, it brakes the wheel with and without traction differently, hence it "distribute" the braking force. In theory it should be able to induce yaw if that force is shifting between the wheel, which it will be....but EBD's goal is to keep the car in a straight line under braking.

ASM or other type of yaw control will actually try to change the trajectory of the car proactively, can be done through braking or a variety of means...

At any rate, reading about this got me thinking about driving in GT5 and whats different to something like GTR or rFactor on PC, which I've never resorted to ABS. I think I am going to try to play it without ABS on. It certainly does explain some of the ways I've gone to dial out some understeer in the game, and how that seems to be contradictory to how I've set up my cars in those games. Eg, I've used to run a lot more deceleration lock in those game on my LSD to settle down the rear end under heavy braking, and run more of a rear biased downforce to do the same thing. In this game with ABS like that I had to free up the back a lot more and the car still won't turn that well, and I just burn up front tire. Right now I am doing the Laguna Seca 200 and I've just set ABS to 0 and I am going to try to drive like that to see....I've already feel the car drives more "right"...if a bit more tasking since now I need to pay more attention to threshold braking.....

 

[RobGT81]

Thats what it is supposed to do, it brakes the wheel with and without traction differently, hence it "distribute" the braking force. In theory it should be able to induce yaw if that force is shifting between the wheel, which it will be....but EBD's goal is to keep the car in a straight line under braking.

ASM or other type of yaw control will actually try to change the trajectory of the car proactively, can be done through braking or a variety of means...

At any rate, reading about this got me thinking about driving in GT5 and whats different to something like GTR or rFactor on PC, which I've never resorted to ABS. I think I am going to try to play it without ABS on. It certainly does explain some of the ways I've gone to dial out some understeer in the game, and how that seems to be contradictory to how I've set up my cars in those games. Eg, I've used to run a lot more deceleration lock in those game on my LSD to settle down the rear end under heavy braking, and run more of a rear biased downforce to do the same thing. In this game with ABS like that I had to free up the back a lot more and the car still won't turn that well, and I just burn up front tire. Right now I am doing the Laguna Seca 200 and I've just set ABS to 0 and I am going to try to drive like that to see....I've already feel the car drives more "right"...if a bit more tasking since now I need to pay more attention to threshold braking.....

Yup my Scirocco does this in RL, its a strange feeling when you chuck your car about and it doesnt do what you expect and feel the braking in a unexpected manner. It works though, keeps you very much in a straight line but kicks the traction control in and limits the power for a second or two while its working. you can turn it off though

 

[shirakawaa]

If you use the "bumper" cam, even if you don't have very good pedals, you can apply precise and consistent braking force by looking at the red braking level indicator next to the speedometer. As of late, I'm able to drive without ABS with all cars with relative success. I set up the braking force so that the front wheels start locking up at around a 75% controller range on a flat road in dry conditions. I found out that some cars need a stronger brake pressure setting to achieve that, so at least the power difference between different braking systems must be simulated in the game.

But I guess this is matter for a dedicated thread on the subject.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Somehow I don't think anything like that would prevent weight transfer effects. Oversteer under heavy braking, while turning should not be prevented by ABS

That (if you have heavy rear brake BIAS, or swing the car) and more.

I've had cars without any, with "simple" ABS and with ABS+EBD. In all, after braking too late/hard and releasing the brakes with the wheel a bit turned, the car would go from understeer to turning sharp, and in some cases (car/grip/speed/etc) even oversteer.

That happens because the front tires are over their grip level with the braking, added weight and turn angle. When you release the brakes, braking and weight are removed and the tires can now grip and turn.

In GT5 in just goes from heavy understeer to mild understeer when you release the brakes.

Now with ABS off, the car is alive. I love it! Don't care if I'm slower or less consistent. Although that won't help me make this challenge on time.

(If you just got to the thread... I'm talking ALL aids off, and yes it was easy, and yes I also made it on first try with SRF on).