Ford May Stop Making Minivans

[Joey D]

The fastest pickup now is the SRT-10, but the Lightining isn't much slower. They both went around 150mph.

And its very hard to make a pickup fast.

 

[Poverty]

well there are 200+ mph SUV's...

 

[Joey D]

There are? The fastest (not the quickest which is the Typhoon) SUV I know is the Cayenne S and it won't do 200mph, no way no how.

 

[Poverty]

A brabus ML and and some uber X5 built by some company thats regarded as a manufacturer in its own right like RUF have. RUF coud probably make you a 200+ mph cayenne if you wanted to.

 

[Joey D]

Uh those aren't from the factory, I'm talk straight up from the factory. Hell there is a Blazer with a blown 454 that'll get almost to 200 with the right gearing. It's possible to make anything go 200mph, just not right from the factory.

 

[1X83Z]

Blazin's Note: Seems odd they'd get outta the market.

why? ford hasn't been competitive in that market since the release of the windstar back in 1995. their reskinned windstar and later the redesigned model lagged far behind the competition, and no ford minivan has ever had a competitive horsepower rating. ford could spend a zillion dollars to come out with a vehicle just as good as honda's class-leading odyssey and it would still fail to sell because ford does not have an established name in the minivan market. i agree with this decision.

Why? The Mazda mini van is nothing more then a rebodied Ford, if Ford sucks then so does Mazda...it works both ways.

mazda's mpv shares neither a platform nor a design with any ford products. the only major shared component is its dohc 3-liter V6 found in, among others, the ford five hundred and freestyle.

Eww the freestar is ugly. Why dont ford just offer this instead.

because that vehicle debuted in 1998 or 1999, making it more dated than not only the freestar but also the final windstar, and is too small to be a top seller in our market anyway.

 

[Joey D]

Where the hell did you come from?

 

[1X83Z]

I don't like the Ford's claim of F-Series being the best selling vehicle though. Series are made up of at least three different trucks IMO.

it's not three. people think 'f-series' and assume we're talking about the light duty f150 and heavy duty f250 and f350. it goes a lot deeper than that. when blazinxtreme quotes the misleading statistic that the f-series is the best-selling truck on the market, it is only technically true.

you know ambulances? not the van-bodied ambulances, but truck-bodied ones, which are essentially a cab with a box mounted on a ladder frame. those are ford f-series vehicles:

so are all ford dump trucks (though rare) and any other ford truck, aside from the ranger. basically, the ford "f-series" range extends from the f150 which we all know and love all the way through commercial vehicles badged as f650 which share absolutely no components but are still part of the same "series."

furthermore, the vast majority of the sales in this series - including nearly all ambulance sales - are profitless. ford makes its biggest profits on the light duty and super duty trucks, and makes almost no money on the remainder. but they like having the best-selling vehicle ever.

in my opinion calling the f-series the best-selling vehicle is sort of like calling virginia the largest city in the united states.

 

[1X83Z]

man - you guys need me.

 

[Joey D]

man - you guys need me.

Uh...Yeah!

 

[a6m5]

it's not three. people think 'f-series' and assume we're talking about the light duty f150 and heavy duty f250 and f350.

I know that, DOUG! I said "at least three" as in there is F-150, then the Super Duties that ranges from F-250 and up(to 4 or 550?), finally, there are the huge ones that most Ford dealers don't even deal with like F-650&up(huge silver truck in M5Power's post). Those are the three I was talking about. There might be more that I'm not aware of.

in my opinion calling the f-series the best-selling vehicle is sort of like calling virginia the largest city in the united states.

I was thinking more along the lines of counting Corolla, Camry and Avalon as a single lineup, but.....

 

[YSSMAN]

EH? Why does the steering have to be sloppy. Obviously it will have to have a harsh ride to be able to tow heavy things but it doesnt need to be sloppy. Plus you guys have trucks and so have we. What you think we never need to tow things around? The only difference is that we use proper trucks. But maybe thats the point of the F series etc you can use it for work and personal use whilst with our trucks we would never used them for personal commuting.

PS. We have plents of dodge rams over here and mitsubishi trucks aswell.

He was making a point of how pointless the lightning was. Like he does with SUVs that arent 4wd. Whats the point of them if they cant go offroad???

You still dont understand the purpose of the American full-size truck. They work hard... They arent supposed to be nice to drive, or comfortable to drive in for an extended period of time, nor are they supposed to get good gas mileage. They are TRUCKS! How the hell can you say that Europe uses "Proper Trucks" when a truck in generally defined in the category that would include the Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra, Ford F150, Linclon Mark LT, Dodge Ram, Nissan Titan, and Toyota Tundra? Are you talking about pannel vans and cargo trucks?

The SVT Ligtning was never created for nor ever intended to even see a dirt road. My Dad's cousin worked for Coletti back in the early '90s when the SVT group was first being formed, and he was one of the product managers on the origional Ford SVT Lightining. The origional 5.8L 240HP V8 powered F150 was pretty fast, and only outdid the origional Silverado SS 454 of the era by fractions of a second in most acceleration tests.

Being that the truck was RWD with a high-performance uspension, breaks, wheels, and tires... Clarkson is an idiot for even suggesting that the Lightning should go off road. Maybe a small dirt driveway, but thats about it.

...Maybe it's because I'm an American, but I dont have any problem with the wave of Muscle Trucks the market has seen. The big three have been making the trucks since the late '60s and early '70s, but only recently have they become popular again. With big V8s being able to get the fuel economy of smaller V6s, why not? Why not have a truck that can do 155MPH? I love the idea of having a SRT-10 Ram pulling up next to an M3 and showing it it's tail lights in a drag, and then manages to keep pace with the car through the twisties... Hell, buy the John Hennessey SRT-10 and it will outrun the Enzo and the S7 in a stright line, and will run unlimited to the neighborhood of 200MPH before giving up.

Long live the American Pickup Truck!

 

[a6m5]

Not only was Lightning lowered, it also had body kits that made it impossible to off-road. I don't think it was equipped with an appropriate tires for off-roading either.

I don't believe in sport trucks, because it's silly to spend time and money transforming a truck into a sportscar IMO. But I guess they are interesting concept for the pickup lovers, so more power to them. I am liking the Grand Cherokee SRT-8, which is a kind of a sport truck.

 

[Joey D]

Hell you have to think of people like me who love trucks and SUV's, why should I be screwed out of something fast? Also sport trucks are far more useful the a sports car. Think about it? Lightining has a payload rating of 800lbs. and can tow a trailer with no problem what so ever. Lets see your 911 pull a boat or haul drywall.

 

[a6m5]

Hell you have to think of people like me who love trucks and SUV's, why should I be screwed out of something fast? Also sport trucks are far more useful the a sports car. Think about it? Lightining has a payload rating of 800lbs. and can tow a trailer with no problem what so ever. Lets see your 911 pull a boat or haul drywall.

Yeah, but how often do you see Lightning or whatever Dodge sport truck being used to tow anything. How about never!

 

[Joey D]

Oh that's not true, my buddy's parents have a Silverado SS and pull there boat around with it. And I saw a SRT-10 at Home Depot the other day with a guy putting 8 foot sheets of drywall in the bed.

 

[a6m5]

Oh that's not true, my buddy's parents have a Silverado SS and pull there boat around with it. And I saw a SRT-10 at Home Depot the other day with a guy putting 8 foot sheets of drywall in the bed.

Yeah, I suppose you can haul stuff. I think the only thing sport trucks ever hitch on their receivers are hitch covers though.

 

[Joey D]

For the most part yes, I'll agree with you a lot of people won't do anything with the trucks.

 

[Ev0]

I love the idea of having a SRT-10 Ram pulling up next to an M3 and showing it it's tail lights in a drag, and then manages to keep pace with the car through the twisties...

An SRT-10 beating an M3 in a drag race? Entirely plausible (500hp vs. 330hp). Keeping up with an M3 in the corners? Hell no. No matter how good the suspension and the chassis are, a truck will never be as good as a proper sports car in handling. Even if gross weight is not considered, the car will always have better balance and a vastly better center of gravity. Also the car would be a lot easier to drive on a track, given its smaller size.

 

[Gil]

I guess it's time for old Gil to drop his 2 cents in the basket.

With Ford and Chevy having such a stong position in the domestic (U.S.) SUV market, what is the point of having a mini-van on the market?
Most folks are going to choose the SUV over the mini-van. I have a friend that recently got a killer deal on a pristine Windstar. She says it runs good, gets decent gas mileage, and is useful as all get out. She also hates it compared to her Explorer Sport. It's an image thing.

I have a Chevy mini-van and a Ford Excursion. So I feel that I can argue the pros and cons of both types of vehicles.
The Excursion holds 8 people. The Venture holds 8 people. (In the Excursion, all eight people get to be comfortable. That includes 3 of us that are at least 6 footers. Also 5 of us are over 200 lbs.)
The Excursion gets about 18-20 mpg. The Venture gets 22-24 mpg.
The Excursion has room for our travel gear inside. I have a roof bag for the Venture. (Access sucks, and the stuff has to be packed inside of garbage bags to keep it from getting wet if it rains.)
The Excursion has 44 gallon fuel tank that costs about $100 to fill from empty, with #2 diesel. It also has a 600+ mile range.
The Venture has a 16-18 gallon tank that costs just about $50 to fill from empty with regular unleaded. It has about a 300 mile range.
The Excursion has a 325 HP diesel V-8. (and about 600 lb/ft torque)
The Venture is pulling down 185 HP with the 3.4 V-6. (with 210 lb/ft torque)

The Excursion also has 4WD which I thought was superfluous when I bought the thing. It has proven it's worth since then.
The FWD Venture has also proven it's worth. But it's kinda boring to drive. And has one of the worst ratings for safety among minivans.

But the big question...Which one do I prefer to drive?
No contest! The Excursion hands down. Yes, it's huge, but it has more creature comforts. The five speed auto beats the 4 speed auto for performance, and economy. Yes the Venture gets slightly better mileage. It also weighs in at about half of what the Excursion does.
The Excursion also doesn't get "winded" climbing steep inclines, or in the rareified air of places like Colorado Springs.
The only things I don't care for: the Eddie Bauer interior is rather ugly to me. Though I do love the heated seats. That Black/Tan two-tone leather is not pretty. But as my wife pointed out, If you're sittin' on it you can't see it.
It also sports a turning circle (over 50 feet) that makes school buses laugh in superiority.
In fairness, we did look at an Expedition. While it held everyone in comfort, our stuff would have ben relegated to the roof. And without the option for a diesel power plant the fuel economy would suck.
(Yes, The diesel Excursion, has better fuel economy than the gasoline Expedition).

the only domestic auto maker doing "well" in the mini-van market is Dodge/Chrysler. But, they are where it all started. And their SUV's don't seem to be selling all that well. At least that's true around here.
You see a Durango for about every 10 Caravans. And a Pacifica for about every 15 Caravans.

 

[YSSMAN]

Did Ford decide to cancel the Excursion permanantly or are they updating it anytime soon? It was a pretty popular truck up here in Michigan, and although the gas versions were costly at the pump, I see diesel powered ones around all the time.

 

[a6m5]

Did Ford decide to cancel the Excursion permanantly or are they updating it anytime soon? It was a pretty popular truck up here in Michigan, and although the gas versions were costly at the pump, I see diesel powered ones around all the time.

I believe they are cancelling it soon, if they haven't already.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Excursion isnt listed on the Ford website, so I assumed it has been canceled all together. I know that because of the high fuel costs they were pushing to cut the model, but I was not sure. Either way, it was just an F-250 with an enclosed bed.

 

[Majarvis]

I'd definitely keep the MPV( I think they still make it) or the Mazda 5 (MPV replacement?)

Mazda 5 is not an MPV replacement - it's built on the Mazda 3 platform. A Mazda 5 is nothing more than a cross between a sedan, a wagon, and a minivan, but it is by no means larger enough to be considered an MPV replacement.

 

[xXSilencerXx]

f-series is the best-selling truck on the market, it is only technically true.

That's only because its only Ford selling them rather than two or three companies selling the same truck ie. Chevy, GMC

 

[YSSMAN]

Did you forget about the Linclon Mark LT xXSilencerXx? I believe that is exactly the same as the F150 other than the Navigator interior and the big Linclon grille out front.

...Its the same as GM turning the Chevy Avalanche into the Cadillac Escalade EXT...

 

[Wolfe]

Price of gas getting to you, Wolfe?

Not really, I'm just sick of trying to see past big SUVs to know what's going on in front of them, or to make a left turn with two opposing left-turn lanes...stuff like that.

I'm also tired of dip****s in big SUVs barreling towards my rear bumper while approaching a red light because they think their "awesome" 4/AWD means they can brake better in the snow.

As for the whole truck/sportstruck debate, I have nothing against truck/SUV enthusiasts (although I can't understand why you would want a fast one), but the point remains that most SRT-10's and such aren't going to be used for work, and the fact that they aren't good for off-roading is stupid, IMO.

Take the Cayenne, for example. It may be an ugly fish, but it's one helluva fast SUV, in both straightaways and corners. But that's not all -- slap some off-road tires onto it, raise the air-bag suspension, and it'll claw through tough terrain, too...now that's a sports-SUV. Too bad Cayennes will almost never be used for off-roading.

 

[McLaren]

I know that, DOUG! I said "at least three" as in there is F-150, then the Super Duties that ranges from F-250 and up(to 4 or 550?), finally, there are the huge ones that most Ford dealers don't even deal with like F-650&up(huge silver truck in M5Power's post). Those are the three I was talking about. There might be more that I'm not aware of.

True, but to get your F650 like the one in M5's post, you don't go to Ford at all. Ford doesn't even sell that type of F650.

The Excursion isnt listed on the Ford website, so I assumed it has been canceled all together. I know that because of the high fuel costs they were pushing to cut the model, but I was not sure. Either way, it was just an F-250 with an enclosed bed.

They probably can't sell enough of them duue them being big gas hogs.

 

[niky]

Not really, I'm just sick of trying to see past big SUVs to know what's going on in front of them, or to make a left turn with two opposing left-turn lanes...stuff like that.

I'm also tired of dip****s in big SUVs barreling towards my rear bumper while approaching a red light because they think their "awesome" 4/AWD means they can brake better in the snow.

I love holding up guys who ride six inches off my bumper thinking they can scare me into letting them through.

As for the whole truck/sportstruck debate, I have nothing against truck/SUV enthusiasts (although I can't understand why you would want a fast one), but the point remains that most SRT-10's and such aren't going to be used for work, and the fact that they aren't good for off-roading is stupid, IMO.

Take the Cayenne, for example. It may be an ugly fish, but it's one helluva fast SUV, in both straightaways and corners. But that's not all -- slap some off-road tires onto it, raise the air-bag suspension, and it'll claw through tough terrain, too...now that's a sports-SUV. Too bad Cayennes will almost never be used for off-roading.

True. But then the same can be said of almost any performance car... whether dual purpose or not. I rarely see more than one person in a four-door Evo, for example... and I rarely see any performance car driven quickly, or doing more than 20 mph on the way to the local Starbucks.

I actually clap my hands every time I see a Porsche driven... because those guys actually buy their cars to use them. I hardly ever see a Porsche driven slowly.

 

[a6m5]

True, but to get your F650 like the one in M5's post, you don't go to Ford at all. Ford doesn't even sell that type of F650.

I know that, DOUG! I said "at least three" as in there is F-150, then the Super Duties that ranges from F-250 and up(to 4 or 550?), finally, there are the huge ones that most Ford dealers don't even deal with like F-650&up(huge silver truck in M5Power's post). Those are the three I was talking about. There might be more that I'm not aware of.

I know. Not at regular Ford dealers, but at Ford truck dealers.