FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO HEINEKEN D'ITALIA 2017Formula 1

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm probably wrong , as has been proven on more than one occasion (as the barman will testify) but the future of F1 is not diesel , it's Formula E .

Says? Formula E =/= Formula 1. And Formula E isn't all that efficient currently compared to F1 either, also FE and the entire electric cars idea is possibly not sustainable in current form but that is a beast for a different thread that we could go to. So I'd rather we stick to F1 cars at the Spanish GP, and why they do what they do in regards to your original inquiry, which was the oil burn.

 

[desmodan]

Suits me.
So . How much power does the oil burn give ?

 

[Jakedog23]

Yeah they have 20 grid (ric) 15 (ver) penalties iirc

 

[Whodoyouthink]

Suits me.
So . How much power does the oil burn give ?

Enough to justify doing it in the first place to begin with. But so far I've heard they are all a bit tight lipped about the precise numbers.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Suits me.
So . How much power does the oil burn give ?

I posted a good video to teach you about it in the constructor thread, it gives them around the 900-1000 power they seek based on what has been said. How much of that comes from the oil burn is unknown but that isn't the point of oil burn, which is why I posted the video for you and tagged you.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah they have 20 grid (ric) 15 (ver) penalties iirc

Thanks for the correction.

 

[hasslemoff]

Suits me.
So . How much power does the oil burn give ?

None because the FIA doesn't allow it .

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

None because the FIA doesn't allow it .

Pistons have to be lubricated somehow

 

[desmodan]

Lol
I'll watch it when in sober .
I understand the BASICS of oil burn .
It acts as an upper cylinder lubricant and a fuel .
But if it can raise the operating limit of a £1000 , 4000rpm 4cyl diesel to 20,000rpm . What will it do to a £2,000,000 v6 turbo petrol engine ??

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Lol
I'll watch it when in sober .
I understand the BASICS of oil burn .
It acts as an upper cylinder lubricant and a fuel .
But if it can raise the operating limit of a £1000 , 4000rpm 4cyl diesel to 20,000rpm . What will it do to a £2,000,000 v6 turbo petrol engine ??

I don't understand how you keep asking this if you know the basics. Burning oil in a 4cyl diesel transit van, isn't the same as what they're doing in F1.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Exactly, I've mentioned this earlier they used to be allowed to change the setups at any time during the weekend and thus had "full wet setups" with higher ride hide,

By default the wet setup has a higher ride height because the full-wets have a greater radius. That's one of the reasons that the car needs to know which set it's wearing.

 

[desmodan]

I don't understand how you keep asking this if you know the basics. Burning oil in a 4cyl diesel transit van, isn't the same as what they're doing in F1.

Keep,telling yourself that . It's all about the basics !
More fuel burnt = more power .

 

[hasslemoff]

Pistons have to be lubricated somehow

Yes, but no power gain is allowed by burning oil.

 

[desmodan]

Sorry . I meant more fuel completely burnt = more power .

Yes, but no power gain is allowed by burning oil.

And that's why they've changed the rules !

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Keep,telling yourself that . It's all about the basics !
More fuel burnt = more power .

Keep telling myself what? I posted a video showing you exactly what it meant for F1 how they were doing it. Now if your transit van is using the low viscous oil that is almost comparable to fuel, being fed an excess of it to make up for a controlled fuel flow. As well as potentially burning it through a turbo compressor for additional power...then I can see the point of your question. However, I highly doubt it is doing any of that, so I again ask why do you insist on trying to make some parallel between them?

Yes, but no power gain is allowed by burning oil.

What article in the rules says this before the rule change the recent change? I would like to know because as far as I can see there isn't one, it's once again one of those loop holes/spirit of the rules issues, that the FIA is coming down on. And as usual making it seem as if the teams are bad people for doing their job and exploiting what needs to be to win.

 

[Furinkazen]

I'll watch it when in sober .

There's your problem. Formula One is hard enough to understand sober fella

 

[desmodan]

Sorry . Wifey says I have to go to bed now . Laters .

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sorry . Wifey says I have to go to bed now . Laters .

I can almost hear the crack of the whip over here, have a good night

 

[desmodan]

I can almost hear the crack of the whip over here, have a good night

Crack of the whip . I wish !

 

[hasslemoff]

What article in the rules says this before the rule change the recent change?

Its always been there, the only fuel allowed for combustion is petrol. Artical 19 👍

They have clamped down on it by restricting the amount of oil used in the recent rule change.

And as usual making it seem as if the teams are bad people for doing their job and exploiting what needs to be to win.

There not bad people just very good at what they do and there will always be exploiting of the rules 👍

 

[TheElbows]

Well this thread went downhill...rapidly. So, how about that Italian Gran Premio?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Its always been there, the only fuel allowed for combustion is petrol. Artical 19 👍

They have clamped down on it by restricting the amount of oil used in the recent rule change.

That doesn't make sense, considering oil is combustible and will naturally have a thermal energy conversion to the system. The recent article restricts the amount of oil in newer engines that were introduced after a certain point, if you're running say a spec 3 Honda engine or an earlier Ferrari engine, then you can run more than the 2.7 liters in a race but somewhere more in the area of 3.1 or 3.2 liters.

There not bad people just very good at what they do and there will always be exploiting of the rules 👍

Which should be the case, it's F1. People usually complain about this sort of thing and as much as I don't care for the FIA I'd say they're in a damned if they do or don't situation. If they don't regulate as much as they do and open regs, tons of money gets spent, if they restrict and force teams to think harder, more money will still get spent. So I'm glad it's something you don't think is necessarily bad but also not a good thing in regards to smaller teams.

Well this thread went downhill...rapidly. So, how about that Italian Gran Premio?

The fuel burn ruling came up and became a talking point around the Italian GP, so we are having a discussion about a topic in relation to this weekend.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Its always been there, the only fuel allowed for combustion is petrol. Artical 19 👍

That's the rule that's been clarified. The rules did not exclude an additive in oil which helped said fuel to combust. Given the way the fuel is expanded, pre-exploded and re-exploded in an F1 cylinder such additives can mix far more easily with fuel than with previous engine types, I suspect that's why this is only a recent development. Such oil wouldn't be good for high mileage hence the allegation that the "top up" oil tanks contained something with more bang and lower mileage possibilities while the main tanks contained normal high mileage (about 200 ) oil.

It's worth noting that the clarification doesn't prevent the practice entirely if one wants to argue the letter of the rules, that's why the new mandate is for only one oil mixture per engine and at a much lower consumption rate, the low mileage of the "cheat" solutions will be deterrent in themselves. For now.

 

[Leadfoot530]

So...does anybody actually have a starting grid for tomorrow's race after all the grid penalties have been applied?

I don't follow F1 enough to know who changed what and how many spots they lost. All I know is, qually was practicly for bragging rights at best!

 

[BLADErunner80]

Well done Hamilton.

STARTING GRID
POS NO DRIVER CAR TIME

1. 44 Hamilton MERCEDES 1:35.554
2. 18 Stroll WILLIAMS MERCEDES 1:37.032
3. 31 Ocon FORCE INDIA MERCEDES 1:37.719
4. 77 Bottas MERCEDES 1:37.833
5. 7 Räikkönen FERRARI 1:37.987
6. 5 Vettel FERRARI 1:38.064
7. 19 Massa WILLIAMS MERCEDES 1:38.251
8. 2 Vandoorne MCLAREN HONDA 1:39.157
9. 11 Perez FORCE INDIA MERCEDES 1:37.582
10. 26 Kvyat TORO ROSSO 1:38.245
11. 20 Magnussen HAAS FERRARI 1:40.489
12. 9 Ericsson SAUBER FERRARI 1:41.732
13. 94 Wehrlein SAUBER FERRARI 1:41.875
14. 33 Verstappen RED BULL RACING TAG HEUER 1:36.702
15. 27 Hulkenberg RENAULT 1:38.059
16. 55 Sainz TORO ROSSO 1:38.526
17. 3 Ricciardo RED BULL RACING TAG HEUER 1:36.841
18. 30 Palmer RENAULT 1:40.646
19. 14 Alonso MCLAREN HONDA 1:38.202
20. 8 Grosjean HAAS FERRARI 1:43.355

Note - penalised for use of additional power unit elements: Alonso 35 places, Ricciardo 20, Verstappen 20, Sainz 10, Hulkenberg 10, Palmer 15. Ricciardo penalised a further 5 places for an unscheduled gearbox change.

 

[BLADErunner80]

Penalties are too much

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I really want to believe Ocon and Stroll have a shot at the podium - but probably 5th, 6th or something is more realistic.

 

[Soundtrack]

Vandorne gets a 25 place grid penalty for engine change and drops from 8th to 18th.

 

[Dennisch]

Perez also gets a 5 place penalty.

 

[AudiMan2011]

There's so much grid penalties, that I don't even know who's starting where anymore.