Formula 1 Japanese Grand Prix 2019Formula 1

[baldgye]

Yes. F1 have decided to make it more like a game. They've done this by adding ******** graphics and removing the fair racing rules

I think it's to try and help people who are new to the sport, which is fine with me, though I think tyre life measurements like that are a little silly, getting the data to make that meaningful would be next to impossible...

Completely okay race. Enough nonsense to keep me interested. Absolutely didn't agree with the call to bring Hamilton in (if only to manipulate it so Bottas would regain the lead). It should have been a Merc 1/2. It's been years and years of the same nonsense that almost never works out: bring someone in with 8-9 laps left and put on slicks hoping they catch the guy in front.

Some tracks it occasionally works, and it often works if they give the driver 12-15-20 laps...but at a place like Suzuka? A blind person could see Hamilton had almost zero chance of passing Vettel. After Bottas pitted the second time I think he would have slowly wheeled Lewis in and they likely could have swapped safely (Hamilton was some 18 seconds ahead of Vettel with 12 laps to go so even if he dropped to 2nd it was highly unlikely he'd have been caught/passed by the end of the race....and if he did, worst case scenario he finishes 3rd.). Seems like a silly thing to throw away 2nd place points (even if they're not needed).

At the time I agreed with your sentiment, but on reflection, I'm not sure.
Bottas was catching Lewis towards the end of the stint and would have probably passed him for the lead, just due to straight traction out of places like the final chicane and maybe Spoon. I think the issue was that the Ferrari's biggest and most prominent advantage (pace wise) is their power-unit and the sheer speed on the straights. Vettel with DRS would have probaly made short work of either Merc's. But yeah, like you said, it also made over-taking him an impossibility, and you could see from his pace he was just keeping life in the tyres as he-and the rest of the world knew-Lewis would be in soon.

I think Lewis was kinda screwed by the strategy and maybe with a proper 2 stop he could have taken Vettel (on sheer pace rather than on-track)? I'm not sure.
I think if Leclerc had boxed at the end of lap one, Lewis on a two stop could have challenged for the lead, such was his pace? ...but we'll never know

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I'm not sure how they can monitor each teams individual tire wear when sometimes the teams rely on the driver's themselves to tell them how the tires are. Also, the dual unit speed indication on the side is slightly annoying. We were fine without it. Or they could've just added the mph at the speedtrap, but not for the live speed.

 

[TheElbows]

I think the tire monitoring stuff is simply the number of laps compared to the promoted lap endurance of the Pirelli folks. "This soft tire is good for 10 laps", so each lap they're simply reducing the percentage by 10, etc. Maybe modified slightly for lap times (yellow flag laps would be less, etc.). Just a guess.

baldgye:
Yeah, I guess my main point/concern was that Lewis likely had a stronger chance of maintaining 2nd than gaining 2nd if that makes sense. A track with notoriously poor overtaking (other than lapping backmarkers), and only one DRS zone...I'd have bet on the 18 second lead instead of chasing down a car with a handful of laps left. By the time Vettel would have caught up to Hamilton, both would have had crap tires, and I think Hamilton would have stood a good chance defending - and again, worst case scenario he ends up in 3rd, where he finished anyway. Just seemed really...shortsighted.

 

[Dennisch]

Yes. F1 have decided to make it more like a game. They've done this by adding ******** graphics and removing the fair racing rules

They got rid of this one, only to bring back a new pointless one.

 

[twitcher]

Fun fact:

Since joining Redbull, Alex Albon has outscored Max Verstappen 48 to 31.

 

[TheElbows]

Speaking of Albon, I'm amazed he got away with that dive bomb on Norris. He's been impressive no doubt in his first handful of races with Red Bull, but that was...as our UK comrades would say, rather cheeky.

 

[twitcher]

Speaking of Albon, I'm amazed he got away with that dive bomb on Norris. He's been impressive no doubt in his first handful of races with Red Bull, but that was...as our UK comrades would say, rather cheeky.

Cheeky for sure, on the limit, but not over it.

Watching the replay, Albon was in front when they made contact. It was a divebomb for sure, but he put his car in the right spot, and he kept two wheels on the circuit the whole time:


Maybe slightly more along the lines of something you’d see in a touring car race or on a motocross track, but I like it. Good hard racing 👍

Norris says it’s good there was no penalty
https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/251526/norris-it-s-good-that-albon-didn-t-get-a-penalty

 

[BrainsBush]

Fun fact:

Since joining Redbull, Alex Albon has outscored Max Verstappen 48 to 31.

#MaxOut already trending?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Speaking of Albon, I'm amazed he got away with that dive bomb on Norris. He's been impressive no doubt in his first handful of races with Red Bull, but that was...as our UK comrades would say, rather cheeky.

Albon said he relied on Norris seeing him, as in Norris had to see him in order to stop following the circuit and change direction away from the corner. The fact Albon made contact and still then put his left tyres over the line shows he definitely had no intention of letting Norris have any racing room. I understand the call for "hard racing" but I don't think this was clean hard racing...

Norris' response was very mature, probably banking some points away for future races where he doesn't have brake issues anyway. But the Sky F1 commentators then spoke to Horner and I can't stand his point of view. We all love Guenther Steiner for being so honest, and Horner is the exact opposite. I think the only time he will admit that someone in the Red Bull team got anything wrong is when their drivers hit one another!

 

[twitcher]

Albon said he relied on Norris seeing him, as in Norris had to see him in order to stop following the circuit and change direction away from the corner. The fact Albon made contact and still then put his left tyres over the line shows he definitely had no intention of letting Norris have any racing room. I understand the call for "hard racing" but I don't think this was clean hard racing...

Norris' response was very mature, probably banking some points away for future races where he doesn't have brake issues anyway. But the Sky F1 commentators then spoke to Horner and I can't stand his point of view. We all love Guenther Steiner for being so honest, and Horner is the exact opposite. I think the only time he will admit that someone in the Red Bull team got anything wrong is when their drivers hit one another!

Albon didn’t make contact. Norris made the contact. Albon was ahead when Norris hit him.

Norris left the door so wide open that Alex didn’t need to take the racing line, approached the corner from a more acute angle, but still managed to stay on the circuit.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Albon didn’t make contact. Norris made the contact. Albon was ahead when Norris hit him.

Norris left the door so wide open that Alex didn’t need to take the racing line, approached the corner from a more acute angle, but still managed to stay on the circuit.

Norris took the racing line and Albon dived from about 4 car lengths back. Albon was the one at fault if it had ended in tears, it was a suicide move.

 

[twitcher]

Norris took the racing line and Albon dived from about 4 car lengths back. Albon was the one at fault if it had ended in tears, it was a suicide move.

What’s the official rule on how far back you are allowed to attempt a move from?

When you take the racing line, you leave the door open and leave yourself vulnerable to a dive bomb. That’s racing 101.

It didn’t end in tears, so that’s not an argument.

If Norris is happy enough with the move, didn’t think it deserved a penalty, then not sure why anyone who’s not a driver would disagree with him.

 

[Jimlaad43]

then not sure why anyone who’s not a driver would disagree with him.

Because drivers change their opinion depending on which side of the argument they're on. Look at Verstappen and Leclerc, that Suzuka crash was pretty much an exact reverse of their clash in Austria which Verstappen was perfectly happy with. This is the exact same situation as "Racing or Ping Pong", where the driver being passed by a hail mary from a million miles back has to get out of the way to avoid another driver, which isn't racing, it's just reckless and hoping the other driver notices. If it fails, we get situations like this.

And I can't see how the blue and yellow car can be called innocent in that

 

[twitcher]

Because drivers change their opinion depending on which side of the argument they're on. Look at Verstappen and Leclerc, that Suzuka crash was pretty much an exact reverse of their clash in Austria which Verstappen was perfectly happy with. This is the exact same situation as "Racing or Ping Pong", where the driver being passed by a hail mary from a million miles back has to get out of the way to avoid another driver, which isn't racing, it's just reckless and hoping the other driver notices. If it fails, we get situations like this.

And I can't see how the blue and yellow car can be called innocent in that

In that example, the overtaking driver fails to stay on the circuit, which is what makes the move not ok. If Albon had gone 4 wheels off in the Chicane, I’d agree that it was not an ok move. However, considering that Albon did stay on the circuit, I see nothing wrong with it.

Norris should have never left the door open, simple as.

Don’t get me wrong, the move was about as on the limit as on the limit can be, but it was completely legal. It was a block pass for sure, but there’s nothing wrong with a good, hard block pass. F1 needs more racing like this, and less follow-the-leader followed by passes using DRS. DRS passing is what is not racing, that crap is a farce.

Edit: also, regarding drivers changing their mind. Yes this happens, but it’s usually a change from “my move was ok” to “his move was not ok”. In this situation, for Norris to change his mind, it would go from “his move was ok” to “my move was not ok”. You honestly think you’ll see a situation where Norris gets on the radio and says something like “You know, Mr Race Director Sir, I really deserve a penalty for that overtake I just pulled off”?? Not likely.

Edit 2: also in that example, the overtaking driver hits the driver in front of him. He missed the timing of the move. In the Albon/Norris case, Norris hits Albon because Albon timed the move properly. If Albon had been a fraction later and hit Norris, then its 100% Albon’s fault. That wasn’t the case though.

 

[baldgye]

Look at Verstappen and Leclerc, that Suzuka crash was pretty much an exact reverse of their clash in Austria...

...erm, no it wasn’t

 

[Dotini]

With regards to the post race penalty for Leclerc, could it have been influenced by pressure from Honda?

IMHO, Verstappen unnecessarily placed himself in harm's way, making himself vulnerable to Leclerc's charity.

 

[twitcher]

With regards to the post race penalty for Leclerc, could it have been influenced by pressure from Honda?

IMHO, Verstappen unnecessarily placed himself in harm's way, making himself vulnerable to Leclerc's charity.

What?? How did Verstappen place himself in harms way?? He was minding his own business, half a car length ahead of Leclerc when he got hit.

If that’s “putting yourself in harms way”, drivers might as well not even bother to attempt overtakes in the corners, they should just wait for a straight and use DRS to make the safe pass (something the FIA loves, fun fact, DRS is never going away, despite being a “temporary solution”).

 

[PzR Slim]

With regards to the post race penalty for Leclerc, could it have been influenced by pressure from Honda?

IMHO, Verstappen unnecessarily placed himself in harm's way, making himself vulnerable to Leclerc's charity.

Well that's one interpretation of the events...

 

[TheElbows]

Yeah that is a rather...peculiar way to look at that event.

 

[Greycap]

I'm wondering more why Leclerc, having attempted an overtake on the track and hit the car he was overtaking, got two penalty points while Verstappen, having attempted an overtake off the track and hit the car he was overtaking, got none. See the first corner at Spa a few weeks back.

 

[Dotini]

The rules are clear that brake control must be entirely operated by the driver. Will Buxton is suggesting that the investigation now covers multiple races. Renault could be in deep poo if wrongdoing is found.

EDIT: RacePointingBackwardsFarce have prepared a 12-page dossier detailing the allegation. Clearly they believe in it, although Renault evidently don't:

I agree this could get real bad. The very worst case:
1) Racing Point is sanctioned for espionage
2) Renault is sanctioned for cheating, losing all constructors and drivers points for potentially the entire season. Renault is banned for the season.
3) Renault decides to withdraw from F1, effective immediately (or at 2021).
4) Ricciardo and Ocon are unemployed as well as Hulkenberg
5) McLaren lose their engine for 2020.

 

[DriftShock]

My personal opinion on the Verstappen-Leclerc incident
I love both drivers, but I think Ferrari need to tell Leclerc to chill out a bit
Forces Hamilton off track at Monza and only gets a slap on the wrist (I blame the stewards for favouring Ferrari)
Crybabies about getting given a duff strategy that puts him behind Vettel, signally failing to notice that Ferrari have been the king of ****** strategy since the dawn of time
Kills Verstappen into turn 1 at Suzuka and drives away like nothing happened, and proceeds to throw debris all over the road

 

[TenEightyOne]

Renault have been disqualified from the Japanese GP as their system constitutes a driver aid. Full decision here.

 

[daan]

Renault have been disqualified from the Japanese GP as their system constitutes a driver aid. Full decision here.

EDIT: Car 3 (Ricciardio) is DSQ, not Hulkenberg. Not sure why.

Hulk is DQ'd too as per your link.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Hulk is DQ'd too as per your link.

Thanks @daan, I think I'd confused myself by not realising there were two consecutive documents, one for each driver.

 

[DriftShock]

The confusing thing is this didn’t violate any Technical Regulation, but violated the Driving Regulations.
If it Violates a Driving Regulation, and this is to do with something on the car, shouldn’t it be treated as a Technical Violation?
“We don’t think it’s a problem with the car because we know it’s a problem with the car, so we’re going to penalise your drivers instead”

 

[TenEightyOne]

The confusing thing is this didn’t violate any Technical Regulation, but violated the Driving Regulations.

No, it contravened the Sporting Regulations.

If it Violates a Driving Regulation, and this is to do with something on the car, shouldn’t it be treated as a Technical Violation?

The two sets of rules go together. In this case the Driver Aid ban is in the Sporting Regulations. The technical regulations are not an exhaustive list of what isn't allowed.

“We don’t think it’s a problem with the car because we know it’s a problem with the car, so we’re going to penalise your drivers instead”

The cars were disqualified, the drivers didn't receive any penalty other than losing their car's points.