Formula 1 Rolex Belgian Grand Prix 2024Formula 1

[Sum1s2pid]

Yo, that sucks for George. He had a damn good race. 😤 😔

 

[Alfred1]

Yo, that sucks for George. He had a damn good race. 😤 😔

He should be gutted but the rules are very clear on it.

 

[desmodan]

So F1 race fuel has a density (at whatever the track temperature is) of ~535g/litre?!

Regular pump fuel is ~750g/litre...

Ambient temperature seems pretty sloppy seen as how much a liquid reacts to temperature.

 

[CommanderBond]

I understand the rules and it totally sucks - but TWO KILOS ??... Lame

 

[MagpieRacer]

Also just an aside to the tyre pickup/weight thing. Alonso 1 stopped and wasn't underweight.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

So, maybe George burned off 4 litres more than the team calculated for, staying ahead of Hamilton.

 

[TumeK5]

So, maybe George burned off 4 litres more than the team calculated for staying ahead of Hamilton.

But the car is weighed drained, so having less fuel doesn't matter.

 

[kiseca]

You realize most of those overtakes were on Perez which... well, I'll be easy and not beat a man while he's down. Also, Hamilton was roughly just under a second faster than George and he couldn't even mount a challenge. Max's advantage over everyone else seemed to be in that range which probably would've been enough in any other year. Max did mention post-race their tire deg wasn't good enough to try what George did, so there could be merit in saying that RB's pace would've kept them within reach even without the grid penalties. RB certainly aren't the dominant force they have been, which may not matter much for the driver's championship but the constructors...

Personally, I'd like for Perez to stay because that would make the rest of the season a lot more interesting.

Well, he did earn the nickname the Mexican Minister of Defence, so for all of his current issues, being easy to overtake isn't characteristic of him. Weren't most, or all, of them under DRS?

He was also screwed by the short stop on the mediums, either because he burned through them (he used to be known as really gentle on tyres too...) or to let Max past... but for the latter they'd probably have just asked him to do so on track, as he did later on in the race if I recall.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

But the car is weighed drained, so having less fuel doesn't matter.

Don't they have to have a certain amount of fuel in the car at the end of the race for sampling? Don't recall how much it is, I expect not much more than a few ounces but, they calculate everything in these cars, probably down to 4 decimal points. I'll have to take your word for the state of the fuel cell at post race weigh in. Not that deep in the ruleset.

 

[TumeK5]

Don't they have to have a certain amount of fuel in the car at the end of the race for sampling?

Yes, 1 liter for the fuel sample. But this wasn't what disqualified Russell: it was the weight of the car, so they clearly got the sample.

To avoid confusion (from Formula1.com)

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Yes, 1 liter for the fuel sample. But this wasn't what disqualified Russell: it was the weight of the car, so they clearly got the sample.

Fair enough. I got that part where he got DQed for weight. I was just considering how much fuel might have been left accounting for that weight measurement. If it's not there when they weigh, then yeah, theory debunked.

 

[Grayfox]

How do you have an underweight car?

Cars weight is X, Drivers current weight is Y(the only thing than can change), We need Z amount of Ballast to conform to rules.
The fuel amount is then decided.

 

[Lion-Face]

How do you have an underweight car?

Cars weight is X, Drivers current weight is Y(the only thing than can change), We need Z amount of Ballast to conform to rules.
The fuel amount is then decided.

I figured it was due to the extended run on hard tires, losing more rubber over the course of the race then not having a cooldown lap to pickup discarded rubber. 0.4kg per tire is enough to drop the car below the min weight with the discrepancy that he was dq'd for. He also was the first to stop and went longest on the hard tires (?) so maybe an explanation.

 

[Grayfox]

I figured it was due to the extended run on hard tires, losing more rubber over the course of the race then not having a cooldown lap to pickup discarded rubber. 0.4kg per tire is enough to drop the car below the min weight with the discrepancy that he was dq'd for. He also was the first to stop and went longest on the hard tires (?) so maybe an explanation.

Frankly, the FIA needs to just weigh the car without the tires and add the X amount of weight the tires add to the car.
It will stop this stupid lets collect marbles to add weight to make sure our car is legal.

 

[McLaren]

I figured it was due to the extended run on hard tires, losing more rubber over the course of the race then not having a cooldown lap to pickup discarded rubber. 0.4kg per tire is enough to drop the car below the min weight with the discrepancy that he was dq'd for. He also was the first to stop and went longest on the hard tires (?) so maybe an explanation.

Seems to be the consensus.

 

[DG_Silva]

Didn't the FIA weigh the car with a set of control tyres as well to confirm?

 

[MagpieRacer]

But Alonso also did a 1 stop and long hard stint and was fine. Perhaps the Aston is heavier than the Mercedes but I thought every team was at the weight now.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Didn't the FIA weigh the car with a set of control tyres as well to confirm?

I doubt it, Cars are usually weighed with the tyres they finish the race on - hence why the drivers always pickup as much rubber as possible on the slowdown lap. Mercedes are starting to blame the tyre wear, but taking full accountability that it was an oversight their end which they have been caught out by.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/were-russells-worn-tyres-the-cause-of-his-spa-f1-disqualification/10640095/

 

[Grayfox]

But Alonso also did a 1 stop and long hard stint and was fine. Perhaps the Aston is heavier than the Mercedes but I thought every team was at the weight now.

They still need too add ballast I think.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Probably oversimplying but if they took the difference in weight between Hamilton and Russell's tires and it's more than 1.5 kg, well, there's your definitive answer.

Either way, third weekend in a row George's weekend was ruined by outside factors (cooling DNF, botched Q1, DSQ). It's almost as though the racing gods submitted a bill for that fortuitous win in Austria.

 

[Grayfox]

Does anyone else buy into the rumor of Toto knowing the car was underweight based off his reaction after george won?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Does anyone else buy into the rumor of Toto knowing the car was underweight based off his reaction after george won?

The thing that seemed a bit weird in the infringement document is that the car weighed 798kg when the initial fuel was taken out. It doesn't specify who was removing the fuel. Then when the fuel was properly removed it brought them underweight. Was the Mercedes doing that initial removal and got caught in a whoops clumsy me moment?

On the other hand, if they did know about it, why didn't they tell George to pick up rubber on the final lap?

 

[Grayfox]

The thing that seemed a bit weird in the infringement document is that the car weighed 798kg when the initial fuel was taken out. It doesn't specify who was removing the fuel. Then when the fuel was properly removed it brought them underweight. Was the Mercedes doing that initial removal and got caught in a whoops clumsy me moment?

On the other hand, if they did know about it, why didn't they tell George to pick up rubber on the final lap?

George wanted to win,
If George drive off line to where the track is dirty he would've lost 1st because he would have no grip and that could've also lost him 2nd if the loss of grip was bad enough.
Kinda hard to tell someone to "drive on the dirty part of the race track" and not get asked why the F by the driver.
Even harder for the team to try and use coded messages about the car being underweight over the radio.

 

[McLaren]

Does anyone else buy into the rumor of Toto knowing the car was underweight based off his reaction after george won?

I think it was more of him not looking forward to his debrief with Lewis given Lewis looked to be on pace to pass & win rather easily, and made it clear he was not happy how George's strategy change resulted in the initial win.

 

[Terronium-12]

Checo has job security unlike anything I've ever seen before. It rivals CEO positions, for crying out loud.

Kvyat, Albon and Hartley were all let go for significantly less than what Perez has done. I don't get it.

 

[IforceV8]

The thing that seemed a bit weird in the infringement document is that the car weighed 798kg when the initial fuel was taken out. It doesn't specify who was removing the fuel. Then when the fuel was properly removed it brought them underweight. Was the Mercedes doing that initial removal and got caught in a whoops clumsy me moment?

On the other hand, if they did know about it, why didn't they tell George to pick up rubber on the final lap?

 

[Grayfox]

Checo has job security unlike anything I've ever seen before. It rivals CEO positions, for crying out loud.

Did you forget about this guy?

 

[Terronium-12]

Did you forget about this guy?
View attachment 1376663

I did, actually.

I have a theory on him, rather, I have a theory on the Honda partnership. They're not going to settle with him holding things back because he makes all the same mistakes he (sometimes rightfully) points out others making, if not worse. If they can come back with as good of an engine as they had with Red Bull, I can 100% see them having an exit clause if both drivers aren't up to par.

And Lance Stroll is not up to par.

 

[Grayfox]

I did, actually.

I have a theory on him, rather, I have a theory on the Honda partnership. They're not going to settle with him holding things back because he makes all the same mistakes he (sometimes rightfully) points out others making, if not worse. If they can come back with as good of an engine as they had with Red Bull, I can 100% see them having an exit clause if both drivers aren't up to par.

And Lance Stroll is not up to par.

He could drive like Mick Schumacher by splitting cars in half every race and he will still be given a contract extension.
Gotta feel bad for Alonso who has to deal with him.

Daddy will just sign up with Mercedes again or ask Audi for engines.

I can see Audi selling engines for more money to help offset some costs, plus 2 extra engines is 2 extra sets of data points for improvements to be made to the engine.

 

[Har1MAS1415]

If memory serves me correct, this is the first time the on-the-road winner has been DSQ'd since Schumacher in 1994.