Forza 4 Demo Thread

[Northstar]

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

It's fully possible, Race Pro is a port of the GTR/RACE games from PC. The problem is that it costs more to develop for consoles so you need to sell more to make a profit. Of course the second part of the problem is that a good chunk of the already small market for sim games plays on PC for it's various advantages(more options for wheels, better performance, free add on content etc....).

Add all that up and developing for the PC and not a console is a rather easy choice.

 

[Spagetti69]

Console games are all about the graphics I'm afraid.
What's left can go to physics I suppose.

 

[JJ72]

That was my bad, I acknowledge that. Just like I said to another guy on this thread many posts ago.

Also, these t10 clowns contributed with their: Super realistic, Pirelli's invaluable data, new suspension, etc... half-lies, I guess.

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

Oh, and using a Fanatec with FM is such a waste IMO.

Fine fine fine the game is not good enough for you we get it, no point lingering around I suppose?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Do you still get 3 1 month accounts up front? That's an awesome deal if it is still in effect.

Yes. Well, I should say that my son has a friend in school who's parents don't have much money. He has gone the route of creating a new XBL account every month so he can play online. He just keeps requesting my son to add his name to his friends list. He doesn't care about losing all the achievement tracking. But I THOUGHT he was on his fourth trial now, but I think his dad has an Xbox at his house and he has an Xbox at his own house. He might be making accounts on both and probably will stop after 6 accounts if it makes him stop.

Also, these t10 clowns contributed with their: Super realistic, Pirelli's invaluable data, new suspension, etc... half-lies, I guess.

Well based on the demo at least, they did do good there. VERY good in fact, compared to FM3 at least.

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

Well consoles are 6 years old now, are limited to LESS than 512mb of ram (some ram is reserved for the OS). So you are looking at about 488mb of RAMish for the Xbox and a tad less than that for the PS3.

So you are trying to get a GTR or iRacing game on a 6 year old console with 475mbish of ram, dated gpu's and cpu's, all mated to controllers with 10 buttons. It's just a limitation of these devices really.

The next thing is, the demand. If there was demand, I am sure the companies would try to. SIMBIN tried Race Pro 09. Awesome game, yet FAILED MISERABLY in sales.

 

[JJ72]

Not bad, but behind many current computers, so there are limits compared to a PC.

Netkar Pro, LFS Rfactor etc can pretty much run on vintage machines though.

 

[Chad Esposito]

It's fully possible, Race Pro is a port of the GTR/RACE games from PC. The problem is that it costs more to develop for consoles so you need to sell more to make a profit. Of course the second part of the problem is that a good chunk of the already small market for sim games plays on PC for it's various advantages(more options for wheels, better performance, free add on content etc....).

Add all that up and developing for the PC and not a console is a rather easy choice.

Ok, I understand that, but what about Forza? They have a huge brand there, millions of fans that won't jump ship if the physics are on PC level. They could do it, they have the money, the resources, and they still don't do it?

Maybe the bunch likes fake physics better, may that be what they call "fun"?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Maybe the bunch likes fake physics better, may that be what they call "fun"?

If you want to call the physics fake, that is fine. But while GT5 and Forza are running FAKE physics, they are also running CIRCLES around the PC sims in sales.

PD and Turn 10 want $$$ and as much as they can. They are trying to appeal to 2 audiences...core and casual. RFactor, GTR, etc are appealing to a niche crowd, on the PC.

Same reason you don't see Flight Simulators and Train Simulators from Microsoft blowing up the sales charts. They are at the bottom. But for a reason, they are a niche.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I'm not expert either but I've hung around guys who, while not a consistent 30 min burnout, during the course of a night put in over 30 minutes (combined) burnouts (well doughnuts) and tires don't really look that worse for wear.

I just looked at the results of one of the ALMS races and the results are pretty much on point with what the game does.
http://scoring.americanlemans.com/scoring.php

Keep in mind that alot of the pits aren't even for tires you're watching. Some pits are just to get a splash of fuel and some change tires just because the strategy works in their favor but doesn't necessarily mean the rubber is done. But even if you don't believe that the numbers don't lie. On average it's about a pit per hour which is about the same as the game, depending on car and driver forza might be too short on tire life at that. Usually , in the race cars at least, you can feel the tires giving out right around the time when you can use a fill up. Which, in a race, is usually worked out that way by the engineers and cars are setup appropriately.

Well people can get through a new set of tyres through drifting in like 10 minutes. I think Forza's street tyres probably last too long if they are street tyres in the demo.

So, you expected it to be on par with iRacing and the like? Bit much, isn't it?

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-3603-Turn-10--Nothing-on-the-Market-is-Within-Years-of-Forza-3.html

With statements like that, I would have thought Forza 4 would blow away PC sims, not just be on par or behind. Games like rFactor run on netbooks, which are considerably less powerful than a 360 so hardware is no excuse for any console sim. I think over the years console sims like Forza will get ahead of PC sims as console developers have a lot more resources to do so.


NA, you know Forza 4 runs on a Xbox 360, not the original Xbox right?

 

[Chad Esposito]

If you want to call the physics fake, that is fine. But while GT5 and Forza are running FAKE physics, they are also running CIRCLES around the PC sims in sales.

PD and Turn 10 want $$$ and as much as they can. They are trying to appeal to 2 audiences...core and casual. RFactor, GTR, etc are appealing to a niche crowd, on the PC.

Same reason you don't see Flight Simulators and Train Simulators from Microsoft blowing up the sales charts. They are at the bottom. But for a reason, they are a niche.

I know man, and that is so sad...

I was so excited about FM4, counting the days until release... Anyway, I'll still get it for the sounds, the graphics, and autovista...

 

[Luminis]

Why the hell consoles can't have a simulation on PC level? Is it just a matter of mainstream appeal? I can't believe there are actual technical issues there.

Most of the resources go towards the graphics and the game is supposed to be perfectly playable wiith a controler. In that regard, there are more restrictions than a PC sim is facing.

The focus just isn't primarily on physics. That doesn't sell games - otherwise games like Race Pro or GTR would sell better.

What you're looking for isn't going to be found on consoles in this generation. Maybe not even the next one, but we're getting there... Slowly.

With statements like that, I would have thought Forza 4 would blow away PC sims, not just be on par or behind. Games like rFactor run on netbooks, which are considerably less powerful than a 360 so hardware is no excuse for any console sim. I think over the years console sims like Forza will get ahead of PC sims as console developers have a lot more resources to do so.

Financial resources, maybe...

Let's just say, if you're taking PR talk as pure fact, that's naive at best...

 

[JJ72]

pffff.... there's nothing as real physics, even Iracing has its flaws (really big ones with the NTM), the fact that console sims has come this far is already above expectation.

In contrast, the innovation in terms of AI, damage, visual etc in hardcore sims are really minute, and in the last few years has not see any big step forward. It's not hard to see why physics alone can't carry a racing game.

 

[Bogie 19th]

You know that Forza and GT are not trying to be Rfactor, right?

Forza/GT:

rFactor, iRacing:

I will let you guess what the general public wants on their consoles in their living room.

 

[NA]

Netkar Pro, LFS Rfactor etc can pretty much run on vintage machines though.

True, same for a number of older programs that could be ported over to console, but why spend money porting over when you can use it to develope for the allready established PC market. Sure, a port may net a good profit, but then again, it might not. Makes staying with the PC safer.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Anyone see any backfire in the demo?? I could see the moving rear spoilers but did not see any backfire at all. I am guessing we will need to upgrade the exhaust to see backfire, that actually makes sense.

I thought for sure the Zonda would have backfire. Well most of the time I was on the inside view so maybe I missed it.

 

[Chad Esposito]

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-3603-Turn-10--Nothing-on-the-Market-is-Within-Years-of-Forza-3.html

With statements like that, I would have thought Forza 4 would blow away PC sims, not just be on par or behind. Games like rFactor run on netbooks, which are considerably less powerful than a 360 so hardware is no excuse for any console sim. I think over the years console sims like Forza will get ahead of PC sims as console developers have a lot more resources to do so.

And I thought Kazunori Yamauchi was ridiculous...

 

[JJ72]

Anyone see any backfire in the demo?? I could see the moving rear spoilers but did not see any backfire at all. I am guessing we will need to upgrade the exhaust to see backfire, that actually makes sense.

I thought for sure the Zonda would have backfire. Well most of the time I was on the inside view so maybe I missed it.

I did,on one of my rival's ghost. (zonda)

 

[Bogie 19th]

Anyone see any backfire in the demo?? I could see the moving rear spoilers but did not see any backfire at all. I am guessing we will need to upgrade the exhaust to see backfire, that actually makes sense.

I thought for sure the Zonda would have backfire. Well most of the time I was on the inside view so maybe I missed it.

See it on the 458 all the time.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I did,on one of my rival's ghost. (zonda)

See it on the 458 all the time.

Oh cool I will have to get out of the interior view and check that out. Didnt see any of the other cars do it so I thought it wasnt in the demo. Not even my rivals. Thats awesome that you saw your rival car have backfire.

Too bad the demo doesnt have the photo mode activated otherwise we could get some great pics.

 

[Luminis]

Anyone see any backfire in the demo?? I could see the moving rear spoilers but did not see any backfire at all. I am guessing we will need to upgrade the exhaust to see backfire, that actually makes sense.

I thought for sure the Zonda would have backfire. Well most of the time I was on the inside view so maybe I missed it.

The Gallardo in the 458 race does it from time to time, too.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Most of the resources go towards the graphics and the game is supposed to be perfectly playable wiith a controler. In that regard, there are more restrictions than a PC sim is facing.

The focus just isn't primarily on physics. That doesn't sell games - otherwise games like Race Pro or GTR would sell better.

What you're looking for isn't going to be found on consoles in this generation. Maybe not even the next one, but we're getting there... Slowly.

Financial resources, maybe...

Let's just say, if you're taking PR talk as pure fact, that's naive at best...

GTR? Did that even come out on consoles?

Financial resources and actual number of workers.

I'm just saying what he thinks, Dan thinks they are already ahead of PC sims, and also the game has no steering assists. That doesn't mean I believe him.

I think personally it is crazy idea to think that T10 are not wanting to compete with PC sims in the physics departments, why constantly talk about how cutting edge their physics are? I fully expect console sims to overtake most PC sims within this decade.

 

[Chad Esposito]

Yes, it "came" to xbox 360, however GTR is MILES ahead of its little xbox brother called Race Pro 09, IMO.

 

[McLaren]

Anyone see any backfire in the demo?? I could see the moving rear spoilers but did not see any backfire at all. I am guessing we will need to upgrade the exhaust to see backfire, that actually makes sense.

I thought for sure the Zonda would have backfire. Well most of the time I was on the inside view so maybe I missed it.

Brake very late & hard into the turns with the Zonda if you have to. It'll backfire with ease.

What's nifty is if you are in the hood/bumper views & you look back, you can see the backfire appear right above the center of the screen on the Zonda as well. Haven't tried it with the 458, yet.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yes, it "came" to xbox 360, however GTR is MILES ahead of its little xbox brother called Race Pro 09, IMO.

What came to 360?

Race Pro 09 on the 360 is excellent and underrated.

 

[Luminis]

I'm just saying what he thinks, Dan thinks they are already ahead of PC sims, and also the game has no steering assists. That doesn't mean I believe him.

Was he talking specifically about the physics? Because, in my opinion, as a game, FM3/4 are ahead of PC sims. Which isn't hard, as that's not what their goals is.

I think personally it is crazy idea to think that T10 are not wanting to compete with PC sims in the physics departments, why constantly talk about how cutting edge their physics are? I fully expect console sims to overtake most PC sims within this decade.

If the PC sims are developed with anywhere near the budget, there's little chance to see them overtaken anytime soon... We'll just get to the point where ohysics will be so good in both, that the differences will be too hard to tell.

When it comes to replicating real racing (rules and all), it'll be quite a long time before it comes to consoles, I'd think. Or rather, to games such as FM and GT.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Oh cool I will have to get out of the interior view and check that out.

Yeah, I saw it when I was toying around with the different views to see the car details.

 

[PzR Slim]

Here's the rub. I play iracing, netkar pro, fva, rbr, rfactor and love playing them all. I also play FM, GT, Driver: San Francisco, F1 2011 and I love playing them as well. They satisfy two completely different needs and they all do it fantastically. I don't wonder why one is not like the other. I'm not a console fanboy or a pc sim racing elitist. I'm a gamer who enjoys a range of games. Why worry about not being able to play sim games on consoles when you can play them on pc?

 

[Vaxxtx]

Here's the rub. I play iracing, netkar pro, fva, rbr, rfactor and love playing them all. I also play FM, GT, Driver: San Francisco, F1 2011 and I love playing them as well. They satisfy two completely different needs and they all do it fantastically. I don't wonder why one is not like the other. I'm not a console fanboy or a pc sim racing elitist. I'm a gamer who enjoys a range of games. Why worry about not being able to play sim games on consoles when you can play them on pc?

Because then a huge list of players wont be able to complain, compare, bitch, and argue over which one is better...there ending meaning in their life.

But yeah, I do agree with you Slim.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Was he talking specifically about the physics? Because, in my opinion, as a game, FM3/4 are ahead of PC sims. Which isn't hard, as that's not what their goals is.


If the PC sims are developed with anywhere near the budget, there's little chance to see them overtaken anytime soon... We'll just get to the point where ohysics will be so good in both, that the differences will be too hard to tell.

When it comes to replicating real racing (rules and all), it'll be quite a long time before it comes to consoles, I'd think. Or rather, to games such as FM and GT.

I assume so, he is saying they have the best simulator around. Did you not read it then?

They have small budgets and have probably a lot less people than PD working on the game nevermind T10. I think rules and regulations will come soon to console games like FM. It is not exactly a time consuming thing compared to most other things already in the game.


Back to demo discussion, look who I saw on the race results list.

 

[PzR Slim]

I assume so, he is saying they have the best simulator around. Did you not read it then?

They have small budgets and have probably a lot less people than PD working on the game nevermind T10. I think rules and regulations will come soon to console games. It is not exactly a time consuming thing compared to most other things already in the game.


Back to demo discussion, look who I saw on the race results list.

I'd have stopped dragged him out of his car and asked him what the he'll is going on with the steering assist

 

[Chad Esposito]

What came to 360?

Race Pro 09 on the 360 is excellent and underrated.

Race Pro 09 came to xbox 360 and is the best racing game on consoles, I agree, but it is miles away from Race 07 which is where it spawned from.

Anyway, let's hope FM4 turns much better in the full version, maybe the racing cars have slightly better physics simulation than the road cars, just like it happened on FM3.