Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[KinLM]

Agreed. It's why GT's offroad and FH doesn't feel right to me. Although track based I think GT and FM do a great job as is. Not perfect but great.

Regarding the cars... 2 huge things are missing from GT5 in my book. The fist being Porsche, any Porsche really. I hope GT6 gets them because I'm a huge fan of their cars. The other is the E30 M3. That car has it's own cult following. We have the Mercedes 190E street and DTM cars but no E30?! I don't expect every DTM or era car but the E30 is the E30. Another car I hope finds its way into GT6.
Actually I could be here all day with the cars but please PD give me Porsches and an E30!

Porsche isn't happening. Sorry. Maybe the E30, but not Porsche.

 

[Northstar]

it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.

I've done my share of griping about Forza 4, maybe not in this thread but in other threads I have complained plenty(mostly about photomode and having to be online to get pictures off the 360 and not being able to acquire unicorns offline). Just because someone doesn't spend their entire time bashing something doesn't mean they think it's perfect.

True, possibly because Japan just had less world-renowned offerings prior to that. FM4 does hit the big names (the KPGC10 Skyline, the 2000GT, the 240Z, etc), but I will admit I miss things like the Honda 1300 Coupe and the Sx00 cars, or Mazda's original Cosmo, Nissan's KPGC110 Skyline, the older Lancers, and especially my old Galant GTO MR.

Adding on this I also love PD's inclusion of various Kei cars. Would love to have more given the premium treatment. That's another thing I like about GT/FM is that I have learned about entire sectors of cars I never knew existed. GT has shown me SuperGT and Kei cars, Forza has shown me how neglectful I was towards British cars outside the Astons, Lotus' and Jaguars as well as some other niche cars.

 

[cuco33]

Porsche isn't happening. Sorry. Maybe the E30, but not Porsche.

You never know. People have been wanting it for ages. PD and Sony just need to work out a deal for the brand. Even if via DLC only, which I will gladly pay. It is the winning-est brand in motorsports after all.

 

[Exorcet]

GT5 has more cars and has more variety period

More cars, sure. Ironically, though I bet you can find more GT equivalents in Forza than the other way around despite this. Forza is far more varied. Not only that, but the cars have much more unique behavior too. If I didn't know the car counts for each game and someone asked me which had 1000, and which had 600, I would say Forza and then GT respectively.

It's not that Forza is put on a pedestal. Look just a few posts before you first posted and you'll see some people (me included) complaining about Forza. What it is, is that when someone says something false, or something that sounds biased, it will be shot down. Forza is not "supercar central", that is just plain crazy to say if you know what you're talking about.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Gt5 may have 1000 cars but I only have interest in maybe 300 lol. The forza list is very diverse in over all manufactures and types. My gt5 garage had 500 cars and there were tons of duplicates, not the same for FM4.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Gt5 may have 1000 cars but I only have interest in maybe 300 lol. The forza list is very diverse in over all manufactures and types. My gt5 garage had 500 cars and there were tons of duplicates, not the same for FM4.

Actually, on that note, I will say that my GT5 garage was well over 1000 cars. Why was that? Well, thanks to having to rely on sheer luck to get a chance to drive the 800+ Standards, I would buy up any car I didn't already own, in case it would be needed later for whatever reason (or if it had a colour I particularly enjoyed - thanks, bizarre paint system). Thanks to them also usually being high mileage, permanently weaker versions, I'd also buy duplicates if I found a rare low mileage example. Most of this was before the OCD, but even with that added, you still had to rely on PD picking a handful of cars. It took ages for me to find the Nardo, for example.

My FM4 garage? It's hovered around 530-540 for a while. When it hits the latter, I usually sell off or auction a few cars that I rarely use, but I do have duplicates in that garage too. I've got about five NA Miatas (ironically enough), because FM4's awesome diversity in modifications has me wanting a few very different cars, and I'd rather have them available in the garage when I want, than shuffling through various designs and tunes to load on a single Miata. I've got my good old D350 blue car (with a GT1 RM look, and the most-used car in the FPM garage), another GT1-looking car at E275, a road-going bigger-displacement nat-asp black car at C425, a wickedly fast 13B-powered blue car in A600, and an Autocross-loving S700 13B machine too. They've all got slightly different focuses, all look very different, and are actually driven.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Actually, on that note, I will say that my GT5 garage was well over 1000 cars. Why was that? Well, thanks to having to rely on sheer luck to get a chance to drive the 800+ Standards, I would buy up any car I didn't already own, in case it would be needed later for whatever reason (or if it had a colour I particularly enjoyed - thanks, bizarre paint system). Thanks to them also usually being high mileage, permanently weaker versions, I'd also buy duplicates if I found a rare low mileage example. Most of this was before the OCD, but even with that added, you still had to rely on PD picking a handful of cars. It took ages for me to find the Nardo, for example.

My FM4 garage? It's hovered around 530-540 for a while. When it hits the latter, I usually sell off or auction a few cars that I rarely use, but I do have duplicates in that garage too. I've got about five NA Miatas (ironically enough), because FM4's awesome diversity in modifications has me wanting a few very different cars, and I'd rather have them available in the garage when I want, than shuffling through various designs and tunes to load on a single Miata. I've got my good old D350 blue car (with a GT1 RM look, and the most-used car in the FPM garage), another GT1-looking car at E275, a road-going bigger-displacement nat-asp black car at C425, a wickedly fast 13B-powered blue car in A600, and an Autocross-loving S700 13B machine too. They've all got slightly different focuses, all look very different, and are actually driven.

I'm starting to get a few duplicates in FM4, mainly because I've found really nice skins. Mainly for the GT2 cars and creating as many of the Grand-AM series cars as i find skins for. I only started in January and looking through the manufactures lists there there are only a few i don't have interest in.

The ones i don't have multiples of I have tunes I've done for each class in multiple configurations in FM4. Thats the one reason i have multiples in GT5, you can only have 3 tunes per car saved. Theres a few i run the same tunes but just wanted different color and wheel combos in GT5.

 

[Tornado]

I've got a little under 300 in Forza, and about a 3rd of those are duplicates. Mostly so I can have different liveried versions at different PI levels.

 

[hogger129]

After having played both, I have to say I think Forza 4 is a better game. GT I think I like the online a little better because it seemed like there were more people there and it felt easier to locate rooms to join. GT also has night racing. I think it would be cool if both games could implement weather conditions on the tracks like Project Gotham 4 had. I owned that game for awhile as well and it was pretty sweet (if you don't mind not being able to mod the cars). In fact, that game had some pretty cool tracks and features other than the weather, that would be awesome for both games to implement.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

From the GT6 complaint thread:

And yet - with surprising twist - you are implying they should *learn* for studio that can't even influence their principal to allow for normal force feedback wheel support on their platform for three generation in the row,

I'll admit I like the FF in GT5 more than Forza, but it's going to take more than that to make it fun again.

that sacrifice driving model in favouring controller over wheels,

Elaborate?

that deliberately downplays all simulation-aspects of its game because of the casual players (Simulation mode, have you ever seen it in Rivals, Matchmaking or in filtering for official venues?)

Forced SRF in seasonals.

that can't offer variety in surfaces

Looking at Forza Horizon, this can change in FM5.

proper open-wheel vehicles for 4 consecutive games without any meaningful explanation

I remember reading somewhere that the physics engine couldn't handle open-wheel cars? But in any case, if FM5 is on the next Xbox, I expect these to be added.

that totally missed opportunity to introduce variable weather and day/night changes

Again, looking at Horizon, hopefully day/night transitions will be added to FM5, along with weather.

that deliberately killed endurance racing form their single-player and matchmaking while in the same time preaching about being the ultimate simulation

I'll give you that.

that does not offer any real new, groundbraking functionality or options for 10 years (in fact, they're killing-off all improvements they've achieved through sequels: no city tracks at all anymore, less and less big point-to-point stages, dumbing down physics and mechanical-physics, scrapping Drivatar development after the very 1st sequel, no real improvements in bridging the gap among controller and wheel players handicap, almost never releasing any substantial updates for buggy and problematic part of their games..).

The same can be said about GT5 in some respects. Why is selling prize cars borderline pointless? Why did it take over a year to add the ability to save during championship events? Why is B-spec worse? Why doesn't PD take advantage of all the tracks and cars to give us a good carrer mode? Where is matchmaking from Prologue? Why are there no permanent leaderboards of some sort? To continue, PD no longer made licenses mandatory and replaced it with a horrible level system that restricts players from doing certain events and being able to buy certain cars. In addition, they also got sloppy with UCD by stuffing all standard cars in there and rotating them in a semi-random fashion. Not to mention PD is just now catching up in some basic features. It took how long just to have the ability to repaint cars? And even then, they managed to screw that up.

Online? Online functionality is much better in GT5 then in FM4.

In what way?

Yeah, livery editor. And engine swapping. Okay. Two points, I agree.

Really? That's all Forza has to offer? I can't think of everything from the top of my head, but what about multi-class racing, market place, auction house, better Top Gear implementation, and autovista for instance?

But somehow I think how both Livery Editor and Engine Swapping should be traded for all things that GT series does miles better then Forza and where Forza still have so damn too much to learn from PD. Which will never happen unfortunately, because it is easier to create a positive mindset with serving people with Porsches and some fancy cars in game with 700+ cars then to actually improve over substantial things that could elevate the true essence of your game.

But everybody has a right to opinion, you and me equally, and I am taking my liberty to say how I still wait the day when some driving game will come that will meet all things that GT series does right and unique on top of basic things it delivers as driving simulation. Gaming and driving-genre in general would be much more beautiful place if more developers would be enough brave to take onto voyages that PD is embarking for 15 years now.

Of course, all above is strictly my subjective opinion.

All I'll say to this is that I agree, I want Forza to do some things better and I'll give credit to GT for breaking boundaries for the time it's been around. I do wish Forza had some of the bells and whistles GT5 does like day/night, weather, and course maker. But what I wish GT5 did was take as much advantage as possible over these new features and resources to make the most fun gameplay exprience it can, but it doesn't do that. And that's one area I think Forza has it beat. So because of that, that's why I prefer Forza over GT. Turn 10 knows how to make fun racing games. To me, PD has forgotten how to do that and it just feels like some things in GT5 were added for bragging rights. I just hope PD regained their magic in GT6.

 

[BoneSawTX]

all amar212 complaints and yet i'd take FM4 over GT5 every day of the week. Yes theres no endurance racing, day/night transitions or open wheel racing but i sure enjoy FM4 more than GT5.

Honestly i don't care for the open wheel racing so that is one thing i don't miss in FM4. I also wouldn't trade the Livery editor and engine swaps for anything PD has.

 

[Terronium-12]

It's been said plenty of times before by myself and others, but there seems to be this misconception that Turn 10 removed endurance racing (and track DLC) just because, and that's not the case whatsoever.

Both were discontinued because of the community.

 

[Northstar]

At least you don't have to compete in a random draw to get a needed car for a career event in the UCD. Sure they fixed it eventually with the OCD, but the fact the FGT event was in the game without the car being readily available is saying something. I really hope this sort of oversight doesn't happen with GT6.

As for endurance races, until both games can do them properly I don't see much use in either game having them. In both games they are pretty much long time trial sessions. Let me know when they have competitive fields, multiple classes and driver swaps.

 

[BoneSawTX]

As for endurance races, until both games can do them properly I don't see much use in either game having them. In both games they are pretty much long time trial sessions. Let me know when they have competitive fields, multiple classes and driver swaps.

agree!!! best endurance racing I've played was "Le Mans 24 Hours" on the PS2, i did the 24 hours many times and my biggest margin of victory was 2 laps. Pit strategy actually made a difference.

 

[Northstar]

agree!!! best endurance racing I've played was "Le Mans 24 Hours" on the PS2, i did the 24 hours many times and my biggest margin of victory was 2 laps. Pit strategy actually made a difference.

I loved that game, I didn't know anything about Le Mans until I bought a wheel at Sam's Club(was my first wheel) and that game came with it. The game lasted longer than the wheel.

Really is funny how all these "new" things were in a game 12 years ago.

 

[amar212]

agree!!! best endurance racing I've played was "Le Mans 24 Hours" on the PS2, i did the 24 hours many times and my biggest margin of victory was 2 laps. Pit strategy actually made a difference.

Original LeMans 24 Hours for PSOne (by Eutechnyx) was a masterpiece.

Melbourne House game you are talking about (originally made for Dreamcast, later ported to PS2) had some really great details and options and great track-selection with damn nice visuals for the time - but nothing beats the Eutechnyx babychild, which had even real-time rev-adjuster that influenced consumption, proper day/night cycle with midnight fireworks and Bugatti Circuit

Trivia: Both games shares the same song for the intro-movie, Melbourne House also used The Dandy Warhols: Bohemian Like You.

Here is the intro of Eutechnyx's original (Toyota GT-One onboard footage is magnificent):

 

[BoneSawTX]

I loved that game, I didn't know anything about Le Mans until I bought a wheel at Sam's Club(was my first wheel) and that game came with it. The game lasted longer than the wheel.

Really is funny how all these "new" things were in a game 12 years ago.

I still have it and pulled out the PS2 around christmas and still enjoyed the game as much as i did then.

My dad grew up in west Texas not far from where Jim Hall's Chaparral were created and tested. He followed them, Can/AM and most the road racing so i got into endurance racing early.

Original LeMans 24 Hours for PSOne (by Eutechnyx) was a masterpiece.

Melbourne House game you are talking about (originally made for Dreamcast, later ported to PS2) had some really great details and options and great track-selection with damn nice visuals for the time - but nothing beats the Eutechnyx babychild, which had even real-time rev-adjuster that influenced consumption, proper day/night cycle with midnight fireworks and Bugatti Circuit

Trivia: Both games shares the same song for the intro-movie, Melbourne House also used The Dandy Warhols: Bohemian Like You.

Here is the intro of Eutechnyx's original (Toyota GT-One onboard footage is magnificent):

I never knew about that game, i missed out. I was always hoping they would come out with another game. Track selection is what really got me, the few that FM4 has that are common has made me a happy camper.

 

[Exorcet]

Forza may not have single player endurance racing, but online, Forza has quite a few advantages when it comes to endurance racing. Multi class, persistent damage, room options. This trumps the lack of the races in single player. And if you really want to, you can have long races with the AI. The option is just hidden in the MP mode for reasons I don't understand.

 

[billyhas]

First off, i'd like to say that I'm an avid racing fan. I've played and owned all GT's and FM's from the start. I was a hardcore GT fan right up until Forza hit the shelves. I don't know what it was but it felt different to GT. It felt a little fresh. This has continued right up to FM4.
Now, I still prefer FM over GT but it has to be said, that both franchises are in desperate need of change. They are both stagnating, especially GT and PD's archaic formula of the same old-same old for the last 15 years.
Forza as well, is starting to go down the same route. Having seen GT6 announcement,it seems based off what's known of course, that nothing major has changed after much hope on my part it must be said.
So, here's hoping that FM5 can get the ball rolling in terms of a fresh outlook on basically everything. Of course, that hope extends to PD's offering in the form of GT7 on PS4. They are in desperate need of a complete overhaul and only time will tell if they pull through.

 

[phillgt2002]

It's been said plenty of times before by myself and others, but there seems to be this misconception that Turn 10 removed endurance racing (and track DLC) just because, and that's not the case whatsoever.

Both were discontinued because of the community.

Turn 10 even stated that the Nurburgring Grand Prix DLC did poorly for FM3 so they were not going to release anymore track DLC.

 

[Speedster911]

First off, i'd like to say that I'm an avid racing fan. I've played and owned all GT's and FM's from the start. I was a hardcore GT fan right up until Forza hit the shelves. I don't know what it was but it felt different to GT. It felt a little fresh. This has continued right up to FM4.
Now, I still prefer FM over GT but it has to be said, that both franchises are in desperate need of change. They are both stagnating, especially GT and PD's archaic formula of the same old-same old for the last 15 years.
Forza as well, is starting to go down the same route. Having seen GT6 announcement,it seems based off what's known of course, that nothing major has changed after much hope on my part it must be said.
So, here's hoping that FM5 can get the ball rolling in terms of a fresh outlook on basically everything. Of course, that hope extends to PD's offering in the form of GT7 on PS4. They are in desperate need of a complete overhaul and only time will tell if they pull through.

I have some of my fondest memories playing GT, going right back to the first one. That nostalgic intro music and the in race music... sweet memories indeed.

Continued playing GT up until FM4 came out, that's when I came off GT4 and 5 permanently.

The stagnation is hard to ignore, I agree. Fingers crossed man, big time! Just don't know how FM5 is shaping up. No previews, screens, dev interviews...nothing so far.

Guess we'll have to play the waiting game a little longer.

 

[Northstar]

They are both stagnating, especially GT and PD's archaic formula of the same old-same old for the last 15 years.
Forza as well, is starting to go down the same route.

I fully agree with this, although I think the only think saving F4 from feeling stagnant is the car list and rivals. Oddly a lot of things that could make both feel fresh are simple things like having real life series'(and using them!), full race weekends, flags, and being able to make your own races and series offline(like Shift 2 has). Online it would be nice to be able to set up leagues(like sports games) and more things like rivals but allow us to make our own and share with friends.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ I don't even do online. And the sheer car selection keeps me busy. Modding, upgrades, performance tuning, engine swaps..painting.. keeps me full.

Then I take a break for just a few days and go back to it. Feels really fresh! I don't know what it is about F4, but just feels really fresh everytime I go back to it.

I think the devs should definitely include a flag and penalty system just like actual races. Along with pit stops, and realistic tyre wear and fuel depletion.

 

[FiftyBelowZero]

Forza 4 was a little tooooo easy. And boring and greedy. A third of the game is locked away unless you pay $200 bucks to get Microsoft Points and Xbox Gold. It sucks.

And you can't help yourself when you feel like tuning cars to the max. Win a race 3 times in a Honda; all upgrades for Honda are free. Then you tune your Hondas to the max, and the next race you do, you win by 4 minutes.

Also, Forza's graphics. Better than GT5 in terms of shadows, but the car models in Forza show off too many white pixels when moving... know what I mean? And every car in Forza sounds like a screaming NASCAR, while GT5 cars sound like Dysons. I think each game has their pros and cons.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

And you can't help yourself when you feel like tuning cars to the max. Win a race 3 times in a Honda; all upgrades for Honda are free. Then you tune your Hondas to the max, and the next race you do, you win by 4 minutes.

So it's the game's fault that you have no self-control? And wow, if you win races by 4 minutes because you upgraded your car too much, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I really do not like the offline mode in Forza 3 and 4 at all. For me the races are boring, the AI is very poor and there are 2 many short races to complete. I liked offline much better in Forza 2 than in 3 or 4 laregly due to the fact that you got prize cars from running the races in 2 and that gave you a reason to run them. It also had a career leaderboard so you could compete with friends for overall race time which was cool. I actually drove all the career races in Forza 2 more than once, on 3 I drove less than 1/2 of them and on 4 less than 10% of them

If it were not for online racing I would not own Forza at all. Online is better in 4 than 3 but 2 was the best of the bunch. I would like to see the next Forza be more like 2. I would also like to see some of the options from GT5 in Forza online mode.

In GT5 the offline mode was also a bit boring. I did like the AI better than Forza but the tire wear and lack of restrictions made the races to easy unless you work at making them hard. The only ones that had any challenge were the Historic race cars and the FGT event

On Forza the only challenge was not getting wrecked by the AI.

I almost never take a car to the max other than some of the race cars of course. Most cars have a limit at where they work well. Taking a car that starts in F class up to R3 is never a good idea but it may make a very good C class car if you do it right

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I never recall the AI in Forza trying to wreck me unless I hit them first. I decided to take a short break from Horizon and played Forza 4 a little bit over the weekend. I did a race on Indy and when the AI was catching up to me on the final straight on one lap, they actually tried to maneuver around me.

But regardless, I personally prefer Forza's AI because I actually feel like I'm in a race with other opponents, unlike GT5.

 

[FiftyBelowZero]

So it's the game's fault that you have no self-control? And wow, if you win races by 4 minutes because you upgraded your car too much, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

At least they could remove that silly discount thing.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

At least they could remove that silly discount thing.

I personally don't think it's silly. I like it. Having to spend no money on upgrades means more money I can use to buy cars. And I can also freely experiment with upgrades without worrying about running out of cash. For me, the game doesn't automatically lose its challenge just because I have free upgrades.

 

[Exorcet]

And you can't help yourself when you feel like tuning cars to the max. Win a race 3 times in a Honda; all upgrades for Honda are free. Then you tune your Hondas to the max, and the next race you do, you win by 4 minutes.

So you disabled the race class restriction (which does not exist in GT) to bring in an overpowered car? That's on you, not Forza.

Also the discount doesn't make a bit of difference. What you're describing is exactly what happens in GT. You just pay for the upgrades, and no that doesn't make it harder. Credits only make things take longer and require grinding.

At least they could remove that silly discount thing.

I'd rather you get it without even having to drive a car. I've never payed for an upgrade in Forza. Complete waste of time to make yourself spend more money so that you have to grind more.