Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

[UKMikey]

I don't see why anyone who is interested enough to go into and compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games, as you guys do, would settle for a console. I just cant get that round my head.

I don't like racing online, am not great with a wheel and am too lazy to create my own tunes and paintjobs.

 

[Imari]

Yea, Autovista has no business in a racing game.

What's your opinion on Photomode?

 

[Wolfe]

Here's the general feeling amongst the sim playing community. You have your 'racing sims'... your IRacings, Rfactor2s, GameStockCars of this world. then you have your 'semi sims'... Your Forzas, PCars, Turismos, etc. Then 'arcade racers'... NFS, Horizons, etc

...can we add "simcade" to the mix? Basically games that have their roots in the real world but have been dressed up a bit. I'm thinking of things like Horizon, DiRT, Grid etc... don't think it's fair to lump them in with Need for Speed and the like.

Forza Horizon is almost exactly FM4 with a grippier tire model, plus some improvements to its suspension and aerodynamics modelling. The grippy handling puts it in a bit of a strange place, but apart from that I'd say it's more realistic than Gran Turismo (which has its own ridiculous grippy tires to choose from), considering the way oversteer and wheelspin and general handling dynamics play out. At the very least, it doesn't belong in the same category as DiRT, GRID or NFS.

I don't see why anyone who is interested enough to go into and compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games, as you guys do, would settle for a console. I just cant get that round my head.

I can't afford to keep up with the PC hardware race, and as much as I like driving/racing games, I'm not going to drop the cash just to play the new sims with bloated graphics that come around every once in a while. I don't really play much else on PC to justify the cost. Also, I would rather drive roadcars than a list of exclusively race-prepped machines, and the PC sim market is rather thin on that.

I do care about physics realism, which is why I continue to play Enthusia Professional Racing while my Forza games collect dust and I haven't bothered with GT5/GT6. I also have Live for Speed, which is what I go to when I feel like setting up my Logitech G25 for a full sim experience -- of the modern sims I've tried, none can compare to LFS, and certainly nothing around today can compare to its ability to run flawlessly on a cheap laptop.

On the other hand, I enjoy "arcade" titles as much as sims, provided the gameplay is decent and the handling is consistent/predictable. My objective isn't to play flawless simulators, but games that are fun. Realistic physics, when executed properly, just happen to be fun.

 

[skazz]

Actually... Assetto Corsa and project CARS are setting a new trend in PC sims which seems to have as yet passed you by.

After years of professionals saying "sims are decent but in real life my race car has way more grip" and many sim racers going "too grippy, no challenge, unrealistic" to everything except iRacing and rFactor there is now enough processing power and knowledge to get more and more realism into the tyre models, and grip levels when driving slowly or fast up to the absolute limits of grip are going up. Soon the days of "you may have been driving real cars for x years but you won't manage to keep the sim car on track during a slow sighter lap, you have to learn the game" are going to be behind us.

Assetto Corsa really is a superb experience: you can hang the tail out on any of the variety of road cars, but you can also keep it tidy by not being stupid with the throttle. In many ways it resembles Forza, but with more realistic oversteer tendencies and the ability to actually feel the grip and catch slides due to the excellent tyre model (unlike Forza sim steering where if you lose the back end you've lost it for good rather like iRacing, but nowhere near Forza normal steering which feels like hidden assists help you out when oversteering)

 

[mister dog]

Assetto Corsa really is a superb experience: you can hang the tail out on any of the variety of road cars, but you can also keep it tidy by not being stupid with the throttle. In many ways it resembles Forza, but with more realistic oversteer tendencies and the ability to actually feel the grip and catch slides due to the excellent tyre model (unlike Forza sim steering where if you lose the back end you've lost it for good rather like iRacing, but nowhere near Forza normal steering which feels like hidden assists help you out when oversteering)

Already thought it was practically impossible to fluidly countersteer slides in FM4 without ending up in a tank slapper, I wonder how people manage the drift mode there as i can only manage to catch and correct a minority of my slides, do they use normal steering mode then? (haven't really given drift mode a shot so far, as it's so damn hard with sim steering)...

 

[shadynader]

I do both PC and console. As for why others choose to not race on PC, they have their reasoning.

But since we are talking about console games here, and they want to race on console (as do I), we will all compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games on consoles as well.

Your quite entitled to do so, just as I am to question the motives. I know the real reason for most people who frequent these boards including yourself. I stated it earlier in this thread. Emotional investment I call it.

Assetto Corsa and project CARS

I have yet to play Corsa even though I own it on steam, many of my sim friends have and consider it much more of a realistic sim than PCars. Gonna have to install soon and give it a whirl.

Forza Horizon is almost exactly FM4 with a grippier tire model, plus some improvements to its suspension and aerodynamics modelling. The grippy handling puts it in a bit of a strange place, but apart from that I'd say it's more realistic than Gran Turismo (which has its own ridiculous grippy tires to choose from), considering the way oversteer and wheelspin and general handling dynamics play out. At the very least, it doesn't belong in the same category as DiRT, GRID or NFS.

It's the general consensus amongst the sim enthusiasts. As I said earlier.

I can't afford to keep up with the PC hardware race, and as much as I like driving/racing games, I'm not going to drop the cash just to play the new sims with bloated graphics that come around every once in a while. I don't really play much else on PC to justify the cost. Also, I would rather drive roadcars than a list of exclusively race-prepped machines, and the PC sim market is rather thin on that.

I guess it depends on what you want. Again I stated this in an earlier post, there are car guys, pure racing guys and there are lovers of both, like me. I'm not saying for one second console racers offer nothing in terms of realism or fun. I would not have bought and enjoyed 6 Turismo's and 5 Forza's if that was the case. I buy them for the same reason you do, the cars. Nor am I looking down upon people who don't want to go PC, for whatever reason that may be, but I would like to add, if there ever was a time to go PC, that time is now.

It is for the people who bang on and on about these points as the defining factor as to why they chose said console game. Constantly deflecting back to said point every time a valid point is raised against the console game they hold dear in their heart. The game that just so happens to have everything they wanted and none of the rubbish that just happens to be in another game on another console. You know the people I'm talking about.

On the other hand, I enjoy "arcade" titles as much as sims, provided the gameplay is decent and the handling is consistent/predictable. My objective isn't to play flawless simulators, but games that are fun. Realistic physics, when executed properly, just happen to be fun.

I agree, I will play any racer that works on the principles of slow in fast out. In fact, the most fun I have had in any racer in years was on Grid 2 demo-derby mode. But it was with my real, everyday friends who have no interest of slowing down for anybody.

 

[HAL20XX]

Can someone help clarify if I'm not a "true" fan of Forza because I like Forza 5? I'm really confused on how that works because those pesky goal posts keep moving.

And Toko, would you mind providing even the tiniest shred of evidence to go with your accusations against T10?

 

[Wolfe]

@skazz -- I agree on the "artificial challenge" of some sims. Even FM4 got similar feedback, although it was more of a drift-friendly game than an excessively challenging one, IMO. I have not yet had a chance to try AC or pCARS, and probably won't have the hardware to play AC for a long time, but I'm looking forward to Project CARS later this year. 👍

It's the general consensus amongst the sim enthusiasts. As I said earlier.

My post was more of a comment on The Stig Farmer's reclassification, with your post for context. You can't change what the community thinks, but I think it was unfair for sim fans to dismiss Horizon out of hand.

I'm not saying for one second console racers offer nothing in terms of realism or fun...but I would like to add, if there ever was a time to go PC, that time is now.

It is for the people who bang on and on about these points as the defining factor as to why they chose said console game. Constantly deflecting back to said point every time a valid point is raised against the console game they hold dear in their heart. The game that just so happens to have everything they wanted and none of the rubbish that just happens to be in another game on another console. You know the people I'm talking about.

It's just another battlefield in the great Sony/Microsoft console war. I've already ducked out of it and made my choice for the "next gen" of gaming: PC indie games and a Wii U. If all that ever comes along in terms of realistic racing is Project CARS U, I might pick up a secondhand PS4/XBone in a few years. I still poke around this subforum because I like Forza and I expect Forza Horizon 2 and FM6 to be much more compelling than Turn 10's XBone debut.

 

[TokoTurismo]

If anyone thought I was bringing down Forza Horizon. I wasn't, but was to its DLC only. I love that game. And no worries @UKMikey, no need to apologize. 👍

 

[VXR]

Whilst the cars in FM5 with sim steering and a controller initially tend to spin easily, after a few laps you can gauge the responses needed and steer even the most difficult cars with some degree of exuberance. After four laps I could exploit the Caterham R500 without losing the back on every oversteer moment. From my first experience, I could sense the triggers were most at fault, lacking the more linear travel of the 360's controller. It still doesn't feel right all the time on the new controller, but I've gotten more used to it.

 

[mister dog]

Whilst the cars in FM5 with sim steering and a controller initially tend to spin easily, after a few laps you can gauge the responses needed and steer even the most difficult cars with some degree of exuberance. After four laps I could exploit the Caterham R500 without losing the back on every oversteer moment. From my first experience, I could sense the triggers were most at fault, lacking the more linear travel of the 360's controller. It still doesn't feel right all the time on the new controller, but I've gotten more used to it.

Could you confirm to me that this is a definite improvement on FM4's sim steering? Please read my post above I always end up with tank slappers.
Cheers!

 

[The Stig Farmer]

OK:

Casual simulator
Game built primarily to be realistic - may lack some features of a full simulation (Gran Turismo, Forza)

Sim-cade
Realistic games with simulation-like features (manual transmission, driving aids, damage modelling), but built into a more easy-to handle physics model (DiRT, Grid, WRC)

Arcade
Games which focus far less on realism, and more on fun and action (Need for Speed, Burnout, Mario Kart, MotorStorm, Blur)

This categorisation is addicting.

 

[VXR]

Could you confirm to me that this is a definite improvement on FM4's sim steering? Please read my post above I always end up with tank slappers.
Cheers!

Once you're used to the car itself and it's got a couple of laps to heat its tyres, then it holds its rear better and you spin less. It's not perfect as you can overcook any slide in a car, but it definitely improves after a couple of laps - which is cool cause I set the tyre and damage option to cosmetic.

 

[mister dog]

Once you're used to the car itself and it's got a couple of laps to heat its tyres, then it holds its rear better and you spin less. It's not perfect as you can overcook any slide in a car, but it definitely improves after a couple of laps - which is cool cause I set the tyre and damage option to cosmetic.

Thanks for the reply; but I'm more interested in how you manage the slide than if and when it occurs, like I said above in FM4, once you experience a big 'oversteer moment', and try to correct the slide it almost always ends up in a tankslapper. Like @skazz described; on sim steering you don't really feel the grip and aren't able to give extra gas, countersteer and make a nice drift through the corner.
Is that part fixed in FM5? And also was your experience the same in FM4?

I'm really eager to get to the bottom of this as you probably can see

 

[VXR]

I didn't get into many tankslappers on FM4. It's a lot more forgiving than the new game, but with the new game you can tip the car in and feel the right trigger rumble, so it has some tactile feedback. Then when the car starts to slide you modulate gently with the throttle and it will hold its line. You can overcook it of course, but the feedback is there to help you.

To be honest, it's more of an instinct thing. I can tell you in basic terms how I don't struggle too much with a car once I'm used to it, but until you try it and get a knack for it, it will likely rotate on you a fair bit.

 

[ffejufo]

The things in FM5 that disappoint me

The menu's are hard to navigate to find what your looking for they were perfect in FM3 nice and simple.

The lack of tracks, most of my favorite tracks are missing suzuka, tsukuba, willow springs and what has become the benchmark track nurburgring all which won't be coming as dlc as turn 10 have said dlc tracks don't sell enough to make it worth the effort to make them.

No adjustable camera in cockpit view.

No look into apex option.

No customizing the hud I just want to see speed, gear, lap, position. Tire heat is pointless in single player there's no tire wear and tires never heat up to a set temp and stay there, gas and brake input really do you need to see this during a race add it to telemetry overlay.

Cars having 180 degrees steering rotation in cockpit view make the wheel rotated the correct amount with the right animation. A game with only 200 cars they sure did miss a lot of details.

Game has bad AA jagadies in places were they should be ie edge of hood in cockpit view.

The force feedback cutting in and out and rumble loss with the tx wheel.

Sim steering is poorly done making some cars impossible to drive that are easy to drive in real life.

No smoke in cockpit view anywhere to be seen not in any of the mirrors.

No marketplace games been out for 3 months. Can't sell cars you own.

Auto vista is complete waste of turn 10s time and no one could care less about it.

Turn 10 have said that the game is easy to patch so where are the patches.

 

[McLaren]

The lack of tracks, most of my favorite tracks are missing suzuka, tsukuba, willow springs and what has become the benchmark track nurburgring all which won't be coming as dlc as turn 10 have said dlc tracks don't sell enough to make it worth the effort to make them

It is past January & not from T10, but I find it hard to believe Evo Magazine would pull that out of thin air.

No customizing the hud I just want to see speed, gear, lap, position. Tire heat is pointless in single player there's no tire wear and tires never heat up to a set temp and stay there, gas and brake input really do you need to see this during a race add it to telemetry overlay.

That is there. It's the third or so option under HUD to turn off damage & heat notifications along everything else.

Auto vista is complete waste of turn 10s time and no one could care less about it.

I like it & so do others, so appears that is wasn't a complete waste of time & people do care about it.

Turn 10 have said that the game is easy to patch so where are the patches.

This doesn't translate to everything being easy to patch. And there was a big patch in December that changed the economy of the game, so they are there.

 

[HAL20XX]

Auto vista is complete waste of turn 10s time and no one could care less about it.

I use it on every single car. Every. Single. Car.

 

[kollosson]

I think Forza 5 is just awful, I played it at my friends house, the menus are just over complicated, the handling is not as good as GT6 and the graphics do not look next gen in fact with Polyphony's superior lighting engine GT6 actually looks better, the replay's are rubbish ( as usual ) and no changing time/weather? on a next gen game? say it aint so...my score, 5 out of 10 and that's being kind

 

[Bogie 19th]

^lol

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Thanks for the review, I actually thought I liked FM5, I guess I shouldn't

 

[UKMikey]

Thanks for the review, I actually thought I liked FM5, I guess I shouldn't

You should've played it at a mate's house for the full experience.

 

[UkHardcore23]

You should've played it at a mate's house for the full experience.

Mates always seem to have the worsed games.

 

[HAL20XX]

... and the graphics do not look next gen in fact with Polyphony's superior lighting engine GT6 actually looks better

I have FM5 and GT6 and the fact you're saying GT6 looks better is a clear indication of how you formed your opinion. Not that the rest of your "review" made it any less obvious.

 

[mister dog]

You should've played it at a mate's house for the full experience.

 

[VXR]

It's doubly funny as in some ways, GT6 looks worse than 5.

 

[UKMikey]

It's doubly funny as in some ways, GT6 looks worse than 5.

That just goes to show how terrible FM5 must look on his friend's TV lol.

I've played F5 and I think GT6 is better in every department ( engine tones aside ) and that's pretty amazing for a PS3 game. You would have a hell of a lot more to complain about if you were playing Forza 5 believe me...

This is pure gold. GT6's damage, livery editing, online leaderboards and AI opponents must've improved immeasurably beyond its predecessor's.

Honestly, are things that bad in the GT review threads that people have to come to the Forza section just to stir **** up?

 

[UkHardcore23]

I use it on every single car. Every. Single. Car.

Wasnt a fan of Autovista but now due to 5 i LOVE it!! I can sit for over 10 mins just revving the engine with the 5.1 cranked right up

 

[kollosson]

I think Forza 5 is just awful, I played it at my friends house, the menus are just over complicated, the handling is not as good as GT6 and the graphics do not look next gen in fact with Polyphony's superior lighting engine GT6 actually looks better, the replay's are rubbish ( as usual ) and no changing time/weather? on a next gen game? say it aint so...my score, 5 out of 10 and that's being kind

That just goes to show how terrible FM5 must look on his friend's TV lol.



This is pure gold. GT6's damage, livery editing, online leaderboards and AI opponents must've improved immeasurably beyond its predecessor's.

Honestly, are things that bad in the GT review threads that people have to come to the Forza section just to stir **** up?

Well some of you guys have been in the GT6 forums, thought I would pay you a visit, the damage model on F5 is still generic, its not realistic and you have a livery editor, which I do like but apart from that in my opinion I own the best racer out there, GT6 makes F5's next gen effort look very ordinary.

 

[UKMikey]

Well some of you guys have been in the GT6 forums, thought I would pay you a visit, the damage model on F5 is still generic, its not realistic and you have a livery editor, which I do like but apart from that in my opinion I own the best racer out there, GT6 makes F5's next gen effort look very ordinary.

I'm glad they've improved the damage modelling on GT6 as the GT5 one made the cars look kinda melted. Any screenshots to show the improved damage modelling in GT6? How is the new AI compared to GT5?