Forza 6 discussion

[FordGTGuy]

Yes. Compare this interior view rain effect to the above FH2 video mark at 2:27, or the water trail particles in every game.

And compare how GT6's windshield wipers are acting as a eraser instead of pushing the rain like in Forza Horizon 2.

The water spray in GT6 looks pretty bad.

 

[Tornado]

Said that, I'm not sure about FM6

Everyone should have thrown their hands in the air and walked away right here.

 

[Zer0]

You must not have played Forza Motorsport 5 because the main difference between ForzaVista and in-game is AA.

I have to differ. FM5 ingame looks worse than FM4 photomode and far from FM5 Forzavista.

And compare how GT6's windshield wipers are acting as a eraser instead of pushing the rain like in Forza Horizon 2.

The water spray in GT6 looks pretty bad.

No one claimed that was perfect but is the way to go, everything dynamic and physic dependant, not an animated wiper texture and static droplets. Like all the previous old games have been doing since years.

Everyone should have thrown their hands in the air and walked away right here.

Any opinion about the topic aside of your obsesive personal attacks?

 

[FordGTGuy]

I have to differ. FM5 ingame looks worse than FM4 photomode and far from FM5 Forzavista.

Based on what? The aliasing?

It will continue to improve but the main differences are the lack of engine modeling to save on polygons, duller reflections and AA. This is stuff that can be addressed in future versions, the exterior models even in-game are pretty damn good.

No one claimed that was perfect but is the way to go, everything dynamic and physic dependant, not an animated wiper texture and static droplets. Like all the previous old games have been doing since years.

It is dynamic and physics dependent... in the world... just like Driveclub.

 

[Akira AC]

Any opinion about the topic aside of your obsesive personal attacks?

It stops being a personal attack when you came up with the same nonsense all the time.


And I wish T10 were more ambitious for FM6, not so much in the way of time change but in weather change, Horizon 2 seems to build good foundations for a weather system that I would like to see implemented in a more racing SIM environment, and FM6 would be a nice opportunity for it.

 

[Tornado]

Any opinion about the topic aside of your obsesive personal attacks?

Any original thoughts you want to express in this thread? We already know how conservative and behind the times Turn 10 are because they didn't push the Xbone far beyond the system capabilities for a launch game.

 

[SlyNine]

Yes. Compare this interior view rain effect to the above FH2 video mark at 2:27, or the water trail particles in every game.

I just wish they'd spend more time modeling how the tires interact with the ground, then with how the rain/wiper effects look.

You are comparing one capture, with horrible color reproduction to another one that has horrible color reproduction to simply make the wind shield effects look good.fail

I have to differ. FM5 ingame looks worse than FM4 photomode and far from FM5 Forzavista.

No one claimed that was perfect but is the way to go, everything dynamic and physic dependant, not an animated wiper texture and static droplets. Like all the previous old games have been doing since years.
Any opinion about the topic aside of your obsesive personal attacks?

Were these images supposed to prove something?

 

[Zer0]

Based on what? The aliasing?

It will continue to improve but the main differences are the lack of engine modeling to save on polygons, duller reflections and AA. This is stuff that can be addressed in future versions, the exterior models even in-game are pretty damn good.

Based on material shaders, lighting quality, shadows, reflections, interior detail, etc. If the gameplay had the same homespace quality it will look much more realistic than it does.

The highest LOD car model is seen in the homespace and at the start of the race, but as is tradition in all the Forza games it swaps to a lesser quality model when the gameplay starts. Maybe that trick some people to think that is the same car? in some cars is more noticeable as the through-see interior details disapear after the LOD swap (spare wheels, behind grill details, engine parts, etc). I bet that T10 is using the old FM3-4 models for gameplay.

It is dynamic and physics dependent... in the world... just like Driveclub.

If you mean FH2 we have seen two different videos. I have seen the same old "loop" effect than in PGR4.

This is in Driveclub:

It’s not finished yet, they’re still building in lots of layers of particles and screen space so that the droplets that you see pooling and running on the car bonnet will also be striking the camera in external viewpoints. The wipers will push water around the windscreen realistically and that water will pool and flow, impending your view from the precisely modelled cabins that feature for every car in the game. But even in this unfinished state, the dynamism of the weather, the clouds closing in and the heavens opening, all adds to the existing beauty of the game.

We already know how conservative and behind the times Turn 10 are because they didn't push the Xbone far beyond the system capabilities for a launch game.

They had since the start of the past generation to start pushing things, so they have been conservative since FM2.

That's enought original to you?

It stops being a personal attack when you came up with the same nonsense all the time.

A nonsense would be assuming that because FH2 will have day-night and weather, FM6 will also have it. Without any precedente or sign that would favour that idea. And you know? nobody attacks anyone to think like that. So no, that don't excuse these AUP faults everytime.

 

[McLaren]

A nonsense would be assuming that because FH2 will have day-night and weather, FM6 will also have it. Without any precedente or sign that would favour that idea. And you know? nobody attacks anyone to think like that. So no, that don't excuse these AUP faults everytime.

Says the guy who does this every time he strolls into this section.

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Originally Posted by IFCA Racing

Dan Greenawalt Interview by AAR GTDon

- Interviewer: Thank you for giving the Forza racing community some of your time today. I think I can safely say that this is welcome and exciting news to everyone on the racing side of the Forza franchise.

Dan: Oh, no problem, my pleasure.

- Interviewer: So, what took you so long? (laughing) I mean how is it that this may well be the first time you have directly addressed the Forza racing community in 5 iterations of the game?

Dan: (laughing) Uh, well, that’s not exactly the way we see it. We don’t give interviews to the leaders or fans of specific segments of our game as a rule. We haven’t given any interviews to just those in our painting community, or drifting community, which are arguably larger participation groups than what we have in our hardcore racing community. From my view as a game developer we don’t see the hard-line segregation or divisions that I know many in our community tend to see. So for example, we’ve never tried to dictate, guide, or limit what our fans want to do with Forza.

- Interviewer: Fair enough. So without a specific vision of what the Forza franchise should generally be, that is, without a specific direction from Turn 10, do you run the risk of being the Jack of all trades, and the master of none in the car simulation genre?

Dan: (laughing) Not at all. We see Forza as being the master of everything offered by any simulation car game available anywhere, whether on a console or PC. Forza stands alone in our opinion because it offers so much more at such a higher level than anything else out there.

- Interviewer: I see. Your critics say, that Turn 10 studios, and you specifically, do not entertain those who would be critical of Forza. Going through the records we couldn’t find any hard hitting interviews that offered any constructive criticism of the game before during or after a new release. Is there a reason why you don’t want to address your critics, and would you mind if we took a few shots at you?

Dan: (laughing) I give interviews to every accredited press person I can find in our industry, and I think they do their best to squeeze every morsel of new information out of me they can. You know, the subject matter is, you know, that of a game, it’s not politics or anything; it’s about fun, fun in any of the many ways that you the gamer see fit. So, you’re not usually going to have a lot of tough interviews about having fun I don’t think. So, yeah, go ahead, give me your best shot, or (laughing) shots.

- Interviewer: Thanks, we appreciate a gamer who has some game. Considering the intensity of the Forza racing community and racing fans in general, and the success of your competitors Gran Turismo 5 and iRacing, with their heavy emphasis on racing, why doesn’t FM5 follow suit? What is it about the popularity of dedicated simulation racing that you don’t like to try to compete with?

Dan: That’s a rather odd question from my point of view, and here’s why. We really do feel that we’ve covered the bases not just with racing but all aspects of car culture. So, it’s very hard to compare our product to any of the others when they don’t rise to our same level of options and playability. It’s sort of like trying to compare apples to oranges I guess.

- Interviewer: So are you saying that there is no room for improvements in the way Forza races, no reason to consider the advances and popularity of your competitors?

Dan: No, we do take a look at what others are doing; it’s just that we prefer a more balanced and broader approach to the genre. We just don’t see Forza as a hardcore narrowly focused simulation racer; we are much more than this.

- Interviewer: So what do you say to people who see Forza as simulation-lite, and lacking many of the most basic racing functions and features?

Dan: Well, everyone has their opinions of course, and that’s really part of what Forza is all about. It’s about creating those opinions, which serve to fuel the passion of the genre. I’m not really aware of any basic racing features or options absent from Forza. Can you name some?

- Interviewer: Sure, simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption, damage repairs, flag system, pace car, live tree for drag racing, to name a few.

Dan: Um, I think we do have most of those features in some form. You know, it’s one of those things where we’d like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version.

- Interviewer: Is that a shot at Polyphony?

Dan: I’m just sayin.

- Interviewer: Speaking of Polyphony and Kazunori Yamauchi’s Gran Turismo, what do you think of his efforts to blur the line between simulation racers and real racers with their wildly popular GT Acadamy contests, and would you ever be willing or interested in doing something similar?

Dan: It’s an interesting effort, and to be honest one that never crossed our minds. I don’t know that we would ever be attracted to doing something like that now that it has already been done.

- Interviewer: What is your personal opinion of GT5?

Dan: Oh, I think it is a very good game. I’m a fan of the series. It is why I got into this business.

- Interviewer: Do you think the feeling is mutual with Kazunori?

Dan: I assume so.

- Interviewer: Getting back to the lack of racing features in Forza, will you be updating or adding them to FM5?

Dan: Um, (laughing) I don’t agree with your premise. Forza has all or most of the racing features you mentioned.

- Interviewer: Not exactly. Yes, you do have pit stops, but they are computer controlled. You have tire wear, but without significant degradation. You have fuel consumption, but just barely, as though every car no matter the power or use of that power gets the same ridiculous mpg. You have damage repair, but only mechanical, and not on the aerodynamics. You have a drag tree, but it doesn’t actually function.

Dan: Fair points, but, but again, Forza (and Forza 5 in particular) offers so much more than these rather minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life. We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content. I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it’s not just these critical aspects; it’s also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don’t have every feature under the sun.

- Interviewer: Well, speaking for the racers, we don’t really feel you have gone all out, or the extra mile when it comes to the racing features in Forza. The general opinion is that you did just enough to get by so that you can say you have this or that feature, but often totally lacking full functionality. Is this a limitation of the Microsoft hardware, architecture, or software, or is it a lack of racing experience and culture?

Dan: Okay then, tell me how you really feel! (laughing) Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that’s not what got us here. We can’t take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path. And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean.

- Interviewer: Yes, I think I do. This is sort of the problem from the sim-racer point of view; and that is Forza isn’t precisely sure what it wants to be. It seems to have strayed far and wide from its original concept back in the day when everyone was quite sure that Forza was a racing simulator not unlike Gran Turismo. By not staying on point or with the original theme over the years, we’ve seen improvements in graphics, physics, GUI, and all sorts of non-racing innovations like the livery editor and auction house features, but very little actual improvements to the racing experience itself. Can you explain this?

Dan: Probably not to the satisfaction of the hardcore racers.

- Interviewer: Well let me ask you this then, will racing ever become the preeminent attribute of Forza in the future? Will you ever return to your roots and make simulation racing the reason for Forza again?

Dan: If you’re asking will we ever make a hardcore simulation racer, the answer is no. If you’re asking will we try to attract more people to racing by blending gaming with racing, the answer is yes.

- Interviewer: Dan, I see our time is up, and I want thank you for this extended and rather unprecedented interview. I know I was a little tough on you, but you know how the racing community is. We may be your most passionate fans.

Dan: Oh I know. We take more heat from our hardcore racers than any other segment.

- Interviewer: That being said, maybe you could cool the fires and offer the hardcore racers a little something extra this time around.

Dan: We always try to.

- Interviewer: Well, again thanks for your time, and we will be watching.


This forum never cease to amaze me.

 

[ImaRobot]

As in tradition to all Forza games? Don't you mean as in tradition to any game, period?

 

[Chippy569]

This is an example of what Driveclub is doing:

Over in Norway, dawn breaks over powdered mountains, sending a dreamy purplish blue out across the environment. The heat from the sun dynamically melts the snow, with northern-facing surfaces reacting first. As that sun sets and a storm rolls in, road-signs are reflected in the slicked tarmac, while headlights catch individual rain droplets. The attention to detail is underlined when Evolution pauses the action and sweeps through the static action, ascending up through the clouds - DriveClub's game world is rendered all the way to the heavens, some two kilometres up.

Maybe this is just my opinion, I dunno, but this sounds and feels like some of that fluffy marketing stuff that claims innovation where none is really needed. It's like the "accurate star maps" in GT6. Who cares? And who's going to take the time to even notice?

 

[Zer0]

Says the guy who does this every time he strolls into this section.

Why have you altered the original post and omited this line?

Edited. Here was a Dan interview with some long awaited Forza community petitions and popular critics but its doubtful procedence distracted too much from the topic.

This also apply to you:
"You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate."

As in tradition to all Forza games? Don't you mean as in tradition to any game, period?

Any other example? it was a pretty novelty at the FM3 time and a very heated discussion in popular forums, serving as a a proof of the dishonest swapping of car models in photomode vs gameplay.

Chippy569, it can be but for now they have been delivering all the bells and candles and at a very high level. Will see what happens in some months. Anyway this is about graphics so those details don't hurt.

 

[McLaren]

Why have you altered the original post and omited this line?

Edited. Here was a Dan interview with some long awaited Forza community petitions and popular critics but its doubtful procedence distracted too much from the topic.

Because that wasn't done until after you got called out on it & even then, you argued with Imari that it was still accurate.

Would you feel better if I remove the Dan's answers and do a resume of the questions to reply this: "T10 for now, as there you do have a developer that gives racing fans what they want, and one that improves and innovates for each new game they bring out" ? because that was the point of posting that interview, the requests in FM4 (the questions) vs FM5.

This forum the last that it needs is more Forza positivism! given the politics of GTP of freedom to critize anything about GT I don't know why the people are so bitter about it when arrives the Forza turn and turns a blind eye about the issues. This is the GT vs FM thread. Well, maybe I know...

Someone posted that the people who wrote it admitted it was fake, but you're too much of a flame-baiting poster to admit you were in the wrong & instead, made your reasoning for editing it with the cop-out that it was "too distracting for the topic", not "Fake interview".

 

[Zer0]

And? it was edited and have no relation with this topic, you can't alter others post to fit better your argument, specially if you want to start a flame-war and get off-topic.

 

[McLaren]

And? it was edited and have no relation with this topic, you can't alter others post to fit better your argument, specially if you want to start a flame-war and get off-topic.

You accuse others of attacking you and creating AUP faults, except you're no saint. My post was proof. I didn't alter anything. I posted what you originally posted as an example of you, yourself breaking the AUP. Just because you edited doesn't excuse it; you still genuinely believe it's a legitimate article (Here was a Dan interview). If you had made your reason for editing it as, "I was wrong", it'd be fine, but you placed the blame on everyone else for you posting made up interviews (doubtful procedence distracted too much from the topic). It wasn't "doubtful" and it wasn't "distracting".

Starting a flame-war is also a specialty of yours when you stroll in here.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Based on material shaders, lighting quality, shadows, reflections, interior detail, etc. If the gameplay had the same homespace quality it will look much more realistic than it does.

So basically IQ stuff that can be improved on in time? Uh what? The in-game interior quality is top-notch in Forza 5.

The highest LOD car model is seen in the homespace and at the start of the race, but as is tradition in all the Forza games it swaps to a lesser quality model when the gameplay starts. Maybe that trick some people to think that is the same car? in some cars is more noticeable as the through-see interior details disapear after the LOD swap (spare wheels, behind grill details, engine parts, etc). I bet that T10 is using the old FM3-4 models for gameplay.

Uh? Dude I said earlier that certain parts of the model were kept out in races to keep down on polys and to keep the exterior model a higher quality.

If you mean FH2 we have seen two different videos. I have seen the same old "loop" effect than in PGR4.

This is in Driveclub:

It’s not finished yet, they’re still building in lots of layers of particles and screen space so that the droplets that you see pooling and running on the car bonnet will also be striking the camera in external viewpoints. The wipers will push water around the windscreen realistically and that water will pool and flow, impending your view from the precisely modelled cabins that feature for every car in the game. But even in this unfinished state, the dynamism of the weather, the clouds closing in and the heavens opening, all adds to the existing beauty of the game.

Yet this is the one game you refuse to actually post any video, gif or picture of this effect happening in real-time...

They had since the start of the past generation to start pushing things, so they have been conservative since FM2.

Why are they even allowing you to continue trolling this thread?

 

[Zer0]

You accuse others of attacking you and creating AUP faults, except you're no saint. My post was proof. I didn't alter anything. I posted what you originally posted as an example of you, yourself breaking the AUP. Just because you edited doesn't excuse it; you still genuinely believe it's a legitimate article (Here was a Dan interview). If you had made your reason for editing it as, "I was wrong", it'd be fine, but you placed the blame on everyone else for you posting made up interviews (doubtful procedence distracted too much from the topic). It wasn't "doubtful" and it wasn't "distracting".

Starting a flame-war is also a specialty of yours when you stroll in here.

Why you speak like a mod? this is not forzacentral and you don't make the rules.

You are obssesed to accuse me all the time and bringing back old topics with false claims when you don't like my argued opinions about the topic and the game.

It happened before and you are still going.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...st-before-posting.282773/page-45#post-9143690

Any other opinion about FM6 or what do you don't agree of my exposition?

 

[Tornado]

This also apply to you:
"You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate."

Lexus LFA.
GT5 in a true surround sound environment (twice!)
Handling characteristics of RR cars.
Forza 4 image aliasing
GT5 framerate in rain
GT6 framerate
Forza 5 interview

 

[Akira AC]

A nonsense would be assuming that because FH2 will have day-night and weather, FM6 will also have it. Without any precedente or sign that would favour that idea. And you know? nobody attacks anyone to think like that. So no, that don't excuse these AUP faults everytime.

At what point did I mentioned that?

What I just said was that I wish FM6 had a weather cycle, in no point I affirmed that FM6 will have a weather change feature, neither did I claimed that it will have a time change feature (which I don't think TBH). Horizon 1 had time change, that didn't meant a time change for FM6 so not sure where you are coming from with that.


AUP is a lame excuse to point out something out of nowhere.

 

[McLaren]

Why you speak like a mod? this is not forzacentral and you don't make the rules.

What does this have to do with anything? You tell others to not break the rules, yet you break them yourself.

As for not making the rules, again with the irony in your posts. Clearly you make the rules because you deemed Akira's post as an attack against you & violating the AUP.

Explain how he did that.

You are obssesed to accuse me all the time and bringing back old topics with false claims when you don't like my argued opinions about the topic and the game.

It happened before and you are still going.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...st-before-posting.282773/page-45#post-9143690

LOL, 1 time & I was man enough to admit I made a mistake.

My post was done to make an example out of you telling others to stop breaking the AUP (when no one did) for attacking you. I'm not going to listen to you cry about how your post was altered because you still believe you posted nothing wrong, when it was; that's the point.

Any other opinion about FM6 or what do you don't agree of my exposition?

How about all of it based on the fact you never have an accurate or positive statement to make about the series as evident from this & every other post you make in the Forza section?

 

[FordGTGuy]

Zero please just get out of this thread, why don't you just make a new thread called "Why Forza 6 will suck!".

 

[TokoTurismo]

@Zer0

 

[Zelalem]

This is funny and sad at the same time. Can we please get back to topic?
I think weather and night are more realistic this time around for various reasons.

1. Forza Motorsport 5 was a launch game on a new console. If the past is anything to go by than developers will get better and better in using the power a console has to offer.
2. Forza Horizon 2 shares an engine with Motorsport, which now supports both weather and night thanks to Playground. And some staff members from Turn10, i assume.
3. The engine and other time consuming tasks were done before Forza 5 or Horizon 2 released. This means the engine team can focus on other stuff.

I don't know enough about developing, but my guess is that they have everything from physics on wet roads to graphics in the engine this time around to support night racing and weather. The only reason to not including this features could be the rock solid 60FPS a Motorsport game has to have.

Also 5 was rushed. I doubt we've seen all the X1 and T10 has to offer.

I agree with you.

 

[Zer0]

Not worth the time, this is very different than the GT5 section and a very dangerous place to expose not positive things.

Get back to the topic is what I was asking since the first flaming intent. I'm going to ignore any other personal attacks.

Back on topic. Just the work to addapt all the FM5 graphics to a new real-time engine, plus adding the weather effects (very cpu expensive; reflections, etc), plus developing and researching a more complex weather tyre physics and plus putting all together in a fine tuned 1080/60 package, in two years, make me think that would be very difficult to acomplish. I'm sure some cuts would be needed and future will tell...

 

[Samus]

That does raise the question why you're in this forum since you clearly don't care for Forza one iota.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Not worth the time, this is very different than the GT5 section and a very dangerous place to expose not positive things.

The same thing can be said about the GT board as well. Say something negative, especially when something new is announced or it's not Pro GT, you get jumped on for it.

 

[Zer0]

That does raise the question why you're in this forum since you clearly don't care for Forza one iota.

How many people have asked the same exact question to you in the GT5 section?

Toko, GT5 in its whole was a massive negative pool before the last update, even now the infamous mastodontic critic thread is growing every day and no one cries for that. Don't compare.

 

[Samus]

How many people have asked the same exact question to you in the GT5 section?

Difference is I do still occasionally play the game and care about the franchise enough to discuss it and hope it improves. I've seen no evidence you have ever actually cared for the Forza games at all.

 

[Zelalem]

I have to edit my post

This is funny and sad at the same time. Can we please get back to topic?

Get back to the topic is what I was asking since the first flaming intent. I'm going to ignore any other personal attacks.

You did create the battlefield with your claim that...

FH2 weather approach is still very old-school and simplistic, nothing new or advanced and in some details is worst than GT5.

which isn't true in my opinion, but it doesn't matter since this isn't the thread for it. You also claimed false stuff about Horizon 2 and made a comparison to driveclub. I can't tell you or others on gtplanet, what you should do, but i will ask everyone politely to respect each other and don't talk about graphics of GT, Horizon or driveclub in this thread. Thanks in advance

Back on topic. Just the work to addapt all the FM5 graphics to a new real-time engine, plus adding the weather effects (very cpu expensive; reflections, etc), plus developing and researching a more complex weather tyre physics and plus putting all together in a fine tuned 1080/60 package, in two years, make me think that would be very difficult to acomplish. I'm sure some cuts would be needed and future will tell...

If i'm not mistaken weather and night technology is in Forza Horizon 2, which means that they don't need to do this work again and can focus on improving it, so that they can run a similar solution at 60FPS. Since i'm not a developer it could be more difficult then i think it is.

 

[Tornado]

I've seen no evidence you have ever actually cared for the Forza games at all.

Or played any of them made after 3.