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Forza Horizon 5: General Discussion
- Thread starter Northstar
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- 11,835
- Marin County
I was thinking back today and remembered that FM4 had an audio system that changed the attributes/character of vehicle sound depending on modifications installed. I wonder if this "new" system is more or less porting those effects over? It's been nearly a decade probably since I last played FM4, but I seem to remember the effect being similar (ie the base sample stays the same, effects are applied) and on the underwhelming side. FM1-FM3 changed the samples completely when changing exhausts, IIRC. The fact that they recorded multiple Supras leads me to believe we are probably getting a mix of these approaches...some cars will probably "algorithm-only" and some cars will have that + multiple samples.
I'm not sure I agree with the approach of discarding dyno sampling in favor of open environment sampling - those mics are probably so heavily shielded from the wind that they are likely dropping entire frequency bands of exhaust/engine character. I get that dyno recorded has it's own set of challenges, but it would seem like they could utilize some sort of outdoor dyno. Dynapack's are super portable! You just need a pickup to move them around...seems easier than renting an airfield...
Really curious to get @Griffith500 's take on all this audio news.
I'm not sure I agree with the approach of discarding dyno sampling in favor of open environment sampling - those mics are probably so heavily shielded from the wind that they are likely dropping entire frequency bands of exhaust/engine character. I get that dyno recorded has it's own set of challenges, but it would seem like they could utilize some sort of outdoor dyno. Dynapack's are super portable! You just need a pickup to move them around...seems easier than renting an airfield...
Really curious to get @Griffith500 's take on all this audio news.
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- cutback73
- cutback73
Was driving the Citroen DS23 in FH4 earlier and couldn't help but think, to my untrained ear, that the sound of this car seemed much better than many in FH4.
Do we think they may have introduced car samples into FH4 that use, at least partly, the techniques from FH5? I guess it's reasonable to assume that, if they've been working on the new audio for 3 years, there will be some cars added to FH4 recorded this way?
If so, what cars in FH4 sound consistent with the new approach, do we think?
Do we think they may have introduced car samples into FH4 that use, at least partly, the techniques from FH5? I guess it's reasonable to assume that, if they've been working on the new audio for 3 years, there will be some cars added to FH4 recorded this way?
If so, what cars in FH4 sound consistent with the new approach, do we think?
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The Lexus LF-A and the latest Audi R8 come to mind.
- 188
- Missouri, USA
- YoungRhombus
IF I remember correctly (disclaimer), there are several cars in FH4 that used granular synthesis. I remember someone mentioning that the cars that use granular synthesis method have a sort of knocking or clicking noise at idle in-game. Some accurate-sounding cars such as the Bugatti Chiron/Divo and Porsche 718 Cayman GTS (with the boxer 4) have this, while other infamous sounds such as the Viper V10 and AMG A45 Turbo 4 (that was also recycled for so many turbo 4s in the game) do as well. I hope that better samples, more samples, and technology improvements will lead to consistently accurate and nice-sounding engine notes in FH5.
Ok, but that is overdone. The way it sounds in the video, it makes the sounds disconnected from the actual scene. You don't get such a wide reverb in an environment with all those trees. Seems like the sound tracing only calculates big surfaces like mountains and big rocks.
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- Marin County
I don't get why the Viper V10 is so infamous. To me it sounds quite accurate in FH4, actually one of the few satisfying sounding engines in that game - in fact I've noticed how immediate that car sounds which correlates with how they described the granular synthesis running at 90fps. The 718 Cayman and also I think the 981 Cayman GTS as well both sound quite accurate and are much higher fidelity than most cars in the game. If those are the "new" standard, than I think FH5 will be, in the very least, quite solid in terms of audio. I don't think it will be as good as Dirt Rally 2 (which still blows me away) but I think it will be up there.
- 10,956
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- 11,835
- Marin County
Wow this was a lot of effort somebody went through. My (utterly useless) thoughts:
General: FH1 has held up really well*. The sounds in that game feel a little more honest than its successors and the engines have more audio differentiation/character throughout the rev range, the succeeding games sound a little more homogeneous to my ears, like PG switched to an audio model that used fewer samples or something. FH4 was the worst in this regard, almost all of the cars sound "blurry" and indistinct, like they just pitchshifted a single sample to cover most of the rev range (listen to the Stratos in the video from FH4, the upper rev range just all sounds the same, just pitch shifted) - this can make cars sound super phasery at high RPMs, especially when highly tuned.. I can only fault FH1 for some sometimes-noticeable looping, noticeable sample transition, and lower bitrate samples. I feel like they kept adding effects and it gradually ended up in the audio mess of FH4.
Supra - I think FH1 actually sounds the most correct and there is a lot of that characteristic 2JZ burble in the exhaust. The FH5 example seems to be highly tuned...I'm curious to know what the stock supra sounds like. I don't think the FH5 Supra shown actually sounds particularly good...
Stratos - FH1 has more subtle detail than FH2-FH4 which sound too "synthy" to me. FH5 is good here.
BRZ - FH2 and FH3 get it right for accuracy, the rest of them sound incorrect. (equal length vs unequal length exhaust manifolds)
I still think the F355 sounds bad in FH5. I think FH2 or FH3 sounds more accurate.
*Anyone ever remember the Skyline GT-R 2000 in that game? It sounded absolutely sensational:
All in all, I'm very glad that the cars for the most part have audio character back - they have righted the ship. FH4 sounded so completely flat and lifeless which really took the joy out of the game for me.
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I do remember Nick Wiswell, the lead sound designer for T10's Forza Motorsport 3-4 went on to work for PD nowadys iirc. He used to work with Bizzare Creations for PGR3/4.
Makes sense considering that audio was incredible pre FM5 and FH3. Just glad to hear there's someone who cares about this xore aspect that made the games ao immersive from the beginning.
Who else remmebers the rowdy cammed V8 at idle in Forza motorsport 2-4?
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- New Zealand
A two second google search and you'll find Wiswell still works for Turn 10 per his Linkedin.
UKMikey
Premium
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- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
I used my two second Google search to determine that the sound guy who moved from T10 to Polyphony is Mike Caveziel.
Polyphony Digital Hires Previous Forza Audio Lead for Gran Turismo
A highly experienced sound engineer has been hired to work on improving Gran Turismo engine sounds.
www.gtplanet.net
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People are finally starting to take off their nostalgia glasses and understand that PG's airport method is a far better choice than dyno'ing the cars. You can tell from this video that regardless of recording, you can hear muffled, metallic and even static noises within the cars' sound in FH2. FH5 just sounds so much better, but FH2 did sound good at the time.
The cars in FH5 are more clear, lively and bassy than ever before. I'm lovin' it! Again, thank you for this fantastic effort PG!
Edit: Every I see FH5 I see the spirits of older Horizons in the title, and that's a good thing btw.
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- 2,132
- Sunderland
I agree about PGR 4, but honestly I've always thought Driveclub sounded terrible.
Weirdly enough, after ripping the sound samples from the game, they got some really good recordings, but the way they're played back in game (seemingly a rather poor granular synth system), they sound really rough.
- 28,331
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Very interesting. 😲
I've always considered Driveclub to be something of a spiritual successor to PGR in its purest form for a number of reasons, namely its audio. Cars like the 650S, F40, 458, ZL1, etc, etc sound amazingly accurate to me. Then there's something like the Apollo Enraged and Koenigseggs; the former it misses but PGR (3 and 4) absolutely nail, and no game I've heard has ever been able to get the Ford Modular V8 and Koenigsegg's own V8 sounding right. Some have come really close but not to my own personal liking.
- 2,132
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Funnily enough it's all V8s that you named - 4 and 8 cylinders are what I think Driveclub did get right, but the rest, such as V10s and V12s, are extremely droney and don't seem to convey their proper sound.
As I said though, it's weird because the actual recordings are completely accurate. Here (hopefully) is the sound they used for the V10 model of R8, for instance: http://ajb-tech.co.uk/files/R8V10.wav I wonder if 4cyl and 8cyl engines simply behave in such a way, timing/acoustics-wise, that the choppiness of the playback doesn't affect them as badly?
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Yeah I always thought Driveclub sounded pretty unnatural. Something about the playback of the samples seems unreal to me. Enthusia had this issue too, like the sound is decoupled from what the engine is actually doing. In Enthusia it made it sound like every car had a slipping clutch or a super high stall torque converter. 😂 In both cases the result is a sort of mushy, unsatisfying audio experience.
McLaren
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In a different timeline, maybe MS would've brought in the half of the studio that got cut & contracted them in on an untitled game that would become the PGR revival based on their foundation that was Driveclub. After all, both titles seem to be cult-classics in the racing community that operated on the premise of racing sports/super/hyper cars around the world, both that many wouldn't mind seeing a return of. And tmu, Microsoft are the ones who still retain the rights to PGR.
Of course, now-a-days with such a huge emphasis on open world in the racing genre right now, it might be difficult to make PGR a success sticking to its routes as a global circuit racer as going open world might encroach on Horizon's toes.
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Screw Driveclub and PGR, Assetto Corsa Competizione has the best sounds. Followed by this game based on what we've heard so far.
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- AS1020
So far, here are the convertible cars in the XBOX One/PC Forza games with roof animations:
- 2011 BMW Z4 sDrive35is
- 2008 Ferrari California
- 2014 Ferrari California T
- 2018 Ferrari Portofino
- 2013 Mazda MX-5 Miata
- 2014 McLaren 650S Spider
- 2019 McLaren 720S Spider
- 723 Quartz Regalia [Probably not at launch.]
- 723 Quartz Regalia Type-D [Probably not at launch.]
- 1,682
- Japan
Assuming we do get "more" convertible variants, I hope they are not biased towards supercars.
And the same goes for adding a new convertible model that is not a variant.
You don't have to be a supercar to have a unique convertible model, like the Chevrolet SSR or Honda Del Sol.
Hopefully they will not do what NFS Heat did and give us this new animated fun with a variety of cars.
And the same goes for adding a new convertible model that is not a variant.
You don't have to be a supercar to have a unique convertible model, like the Chevrolet SSR or Honda Del Sol.
Hopefully they will not do what NFS Heat did and give us this new animated fun with a variety of cars.
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- Grandville Mi
- Gotbeefboy564
- Got beef boy564
Don’t forget the 675 LT too.
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