Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
  • 4,624 comments
  • 315,432 views

What Version Do You Intend To Buy

  • Limited Collectors Edition

    Votes: 224 68.3%

  • Standard Edition

    Votes: 61 18.6%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 43 13.1%
  • Total voters
    328
buttsneeze
I don't care what he's said, my personal experience and video evidence say otherwise. Maybe you can call it something else but it's still assisting you to get out of a slide.
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Or, GASP!!, maybe you're wrong.
Maybe you're not seeing what you think or want to see.

Maybe that twitchy wheel was never the steering assist.
 
I'm a big fan of the Mille Miglia, and i would really like to see more cars from 1927 to 1957. I really like this one, a real shame that this one is autovista only.

2657.jpg


2656l.jpg
 
Paulie
I've got a mate, Gaz 0x, from VWAG, who is very good at liveries and will be making plenty for the XB.👍
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Sounds good!
As for night racing, I don't mind it when the tracks have their own lighting like most do IRL, but the races in the pitch black on S2 were very frustrating, IMO
 
Raitziger
If someone is interested, here is a video about steering assist in forza 3, the famous "steering buffer": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkxSZoHbYY

Wheels of the car actually flicker like it shows on telemetry. Of course steering lock change an other problem. Flicker seems similar to telemetry shown in Forza 4 videos.
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Yes, the oscillation is identical to FM3, and like FM3, the wheels also move in correlation with it.

Many people thought this was the assist, but it made no sense to me being oscilliatory and around the actual steering input..

I know T10 said they are looking at the 900 degree 'issue/assist', but it would be nice to clean up this as well..
 
magic_town
Sounds good!
As for night racing, I don't mind it when the tracks have their own lighting like most do IRL, but the races in the pitch black on S2 were very frustrating, IMO
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I loved the night racing in S2, also the Ring in GT5 in the dark was amazing as well.
 
phil-t
Yes, the oscillation is identical to FM3, and like FM3, the wheels also move in correlation with it.

Many people thought this was the assist, but it made no sense to me being oscilliatory and around the actual steering input..

I know T10 said they are looking at the 900 degree 'issue/assist', but it would be nice to clean up this as well..
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When they explained the FM3 steering assist (which for the longest time they flat out refused to admit it was there) they said it helps find the perfect counter steer angle for the driver. That oscillating is the game trying to find the correct steering angle.
 
CAMAROBOY69
Weather / Night racing doesnt have to be in campaign but at least give us the option to turn it on / off in private multiplayer lobbies. This is pretty much F5 discussion at this point because its way too late for F4.
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That would be nice, but with T10 I doubt they'd go through the trouble of making a weather/night racing system if they couldn't implement it through the whole game.




Also, the Bently:drool:
 
T10 is more worried about 60fps and I like them for that. Constant 60fps is absolutely awesome.

Granted, the mirrors being at 30fps is quite annoying but I can deal with it.
 
FyreandIce
When they explained the FM3 steering assist (which for the longest time they flat out refused to admit it was there) they said it helps find the perfect counter steer angle for the driver. That oscillating is the game trying to find the correct steering angle.
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You do realize it actually makes little sense, do you ?
 
hm? that made sense to me. it's like real driver sawing on the wheel, just the computer is doing it much faster in smaller margins.

Although in my own testing the oscillation is tuned down quite a lot compare to FM3.
 
Well, the computer shouldn't actually need to "wobble" the wheel because, you know, it has access to all parameters and should be able to find the correct "assist angle" without trial and error.

I'm not saying this reasoning is wrong, I just find it very twisted.
 
HBK
Well, the computer shouldn't actually need to "wobble" the wheel because, you know, it has access to all parameters and should be able to find the correct "assist angle" without trial and error.

I'm not saying this reasoning is wrong, I just find it very twisted.
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Its because there is not always one correct angle, the computer will make several fast calculations unlike humans and will make as many adjustments required based on how it calculates the angle. As the car moves the variables involved will be changing and at 400hz the steering animation on the telemetry is going to go a bit weird due to its slower refresh.
 
JJ72
that's assuming track surface and elevation changes is absolute constant, which it is not.
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Yeah because track surface and elevation changes are unknown to the game ...
jasjeet
Its because there is not always one correct angle, the computer will make several fast calculations unlike humans and will make as many adjustments required based on how it calculates the angle. As the car moves the variables involved will be changing and at 400hz the steering animation on the telemetry is going to go a bit weird due to its slower refresh.
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Computers don't usually hesitate you know. What would be likely is that this steering assist algorithm would choose an "optimal" solution for each iteration (or a sub-sampling of iterations, interpolating in-between). And it would be unlikely this optimal solution would actually "wobble" (assuming this "assist" only affects the steering, which is far from being certain).

What I'm trying to explain is not that you're wrong. What I'm trying to say is that you make an awful lot of assumptions.
 
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HBK
What I'm trying to explain is not that you're wrong. What I'm trying to say is that you make an awful lot of assumptions.
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We can only base our theories on assumptions but when you think about it, they make an awful lot of sense.

That twitching could quite easily be the computer updating the steering angle perfectly for what the car needs. The reason it seams to twitch so much is because the physics engine runs at ~360hz and the frame rate is only 60hz so that means the steering is updated 6 times per frame which could quite easily come across as a jump from 35 degrees to 70 odd degrees or something like that making it look like it's twitching.
 
HBK
Yeah because track surface and elevation changes are unknown to the game ...
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um even if it reacts perfectly it will still move around just simply because the ideal counter steering angle is not static. Can't wrap your head around it?

Also it works on a passive reaction principal, there are always delays.
 
FyreandIce
We can only base our theories on assumptions but when you think about it, they make an awful lot of sense.

That twitching could quite easily be the computer updating the steering angle perfectly for what the car needs. The reason it seams to twitch so much is because the physics engine runs at ~360hz and the frame rate is only 60hz so that means the steering is updated 6 times per frame which could quite easily come across as a jump from 35 degrees to 70 odd degrees or something like that making it look like it's twitching.
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1 / It doesn't need 6 frames to jump from 35 to 70 degrees if that's what's needed to "assist".
2 / It's highly unlikely it would jump back and forth between 35 and 70 degrees so many times, if one of those values would be the "correct" one, sub-sampling from 360hz to 60hz or not.
JJ72
um even if it reacts perfectly it will still move around just simply because the ideal counter steering angle is not static. Can't wrap your head around it?

Also it works on a passive reaction principal, there are always delays.
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It will of course "move around". It is unlikely it will "wobble".
 
FyreandIce
We can only base our theories on assumptions but when you think about it, they make an awful lot of sense.

That twitching could quite easily be the computer updating the steering angle perfectly for what the car needs. The reason it seams to twitch so much is because the physics engine runs at ~360hz and the frame rate is only 60hz so that means the steering is updated 6 times per frame which could quite easily come across as a jump from 35 degrees to 70 odd degrees or something like that making it look like it's twitching.
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The only fly in the ointment is that it oscillates equally around your actual steering input.. so adding then subtracting the same amount of counter-steering, which has a net effect of nothing.. I did a load of trials in FM3, and it makes no sense from a control perspective..

And T10's latest statement was that in FM4 the steering assist isn't visible in the telemetry, and yet the wobble is still there..
 
HBK
It will of course "move around". It's unlikely it will "wobble".
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errr moving around in small increments very fast is wobbling.

I realize we are talking about different things, you are talking about the switch in steering ratio but I (and I assume FyreandIce) was talking about the micro countersteering assist.
 
HBK
1 / It doesn't need 6 frames to jump from 35 to 70 degrees if that's what's needed to "assist".
2 / It's highly unlikely it would jump back and forth between 35 and 70 degrees so many times, if one of those values would be the "correct" one, sub-sampling from 360hz to 60hz or not.

It will of course "move around". It is unlikely it will "wobble".
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The correct angle changes 360 times a second.

phil-t
The only fly in the ointment is that it oscillates equally around your actual steering input.. so adding then subtracting the same amount of counter-steering, which has a net effect of nothing.. I did a load of trials in FM3, and it makes no sense from a control perspective..

And T10's latest statement was that in FM4 the steering assist isn't visible in the telemetry, and yet the wobble is still there..
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T10 have absolutely no credibility as far as I'm concerned. They swore black and blue there was no assist in FM3 :indiff:

And the whole point of the assist is to give you the perfect counter steer angle. That oscillation and twitching is the game giving you the minute adjustments to keep it at it's perfect counter steer angle and as I said above, said angle changes 360 times a second.
 
JJ72
errr moving around in small increments very fast is wobbling.

I realize we are talking about different things, you are talking about the switch in steering ratio but I (and I assume FyreandIce) was talking about the micro countersteering assist.
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To clarify, I call "wobble" this kind of weird "wheel vibration" you could see in some "steering assist proof" videos.

I may have missed something, but it looked like this "vibration" was the culprit people are talking about.
 
FyreandIce
And the whole point of the assist is to give you the perfect counter steer angle. That oscillation and twitching is the game giving you the minute adjustments to keep it at it's perfect counter steer angle and as I said above, said angle changes 360 times a second.
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So why does it oscillate equally around the true steering input? From what I have seen myself, it isn't remotely useful or performing the function you describe. You do know the net effect of adding then subtracting the same amount is no net effect??

If it oscillated with some net offset to the actual steering position, then fine, it'd be plain to see, however, it doesn't..

And it's still present in FM4 in exactly the same way!

The whole 'finding the perfect counter-steering angle' was plain as day on the controller, you could see it jump as plainly as the new 900 degree issue, this is not occuring in the video you show..

I did a quick analysis here, https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4238725#post4238725 and I don't mind being wrong, I'm an engineer, but I'd appreciate some sensible proof/analysis being posted to counter this.. otherwise it makes no sense to me, not like the obviousness of the 900 degrees.. or the speed sensitive assistance etc..
 
Posted awhile back but does anyone know what tomorrow is......... Yes I know it's my birthday apart from that...........

Embargo lift day for Forza reviews.
Asked Alan from VVV gamer when embargo lifts. 6th.

Don't be surprised to see reviews up.
 
Embargo lifts tomorrow?


This is gonna be good.

EDIT: Oh, and happy birthday. Good timing.
 

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