Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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With the prize cars in this game, I feel like Turn10 is asking too much for players to earn them. Mainly because you have to complete 4 different events before you win the car. In an earlier Forza Motorsport title like FM2, you would get a prize car for winning 1 event and with how long the events take to finish; I feel that's enough.
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It's effectively 8 different events for the Featured Tour prize car...

Don't forget FM2 was before GamePass. All Microsoft are interested in are "player engagement" numbers, Phil Spencer said so yesterday at GamesCom.

CORRECTION: Phil.Spencer did not refer to player engagement at GamesCom.

By forcing you to do 182 laps to unlock one car in the Featured Tour, those numbers go up. So you can expect to do more and more work to earn anything. Until they reach the critical point where player numbers go down quicker than game hours per user go up.
 
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With the prize cars in this game, I feel like Turn10 is asking too much for players to earn them. Mainly because you have to complete 4 different events before you win the car. In an earlier Forza Motorsport title like FM2, you would get a prize car for winning 1 event and with how long the events take to finish; I feel that's enough.
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I'm thinking of a structure like this: Since the reward car is a racing car, the player would need to complete a series of races in the upper classes (A, S, and R), say 3 apiece, but with some caveats. You can only use one car from the start that you would have to build from class to class, and there would be certain limitations in minimum weight, maximum power and tire type in each class that would unlock with your progress, a flexible homologation if you will.

I think this would address the car building side of the game, the formula would be less stale, and the reward, well, more rewarding.
 
Think they would ever start offering tiers for reward car(s) like gold, silver or bronze for how we finish a series? It might make some cars less accessible to all players if they offered 3 different ones, but the same car with different liveries/variants or custom body kits or something might work?

That way player engagement might increase using shorter series, with more replayability.
 
Don't forget FM2 was before GamePass. All Microsoft are interested in are "player engagement" numbers, Phil Spencer said so yesterday at GamesCom.
This doesn't dictate the success of a game, sales does. Which is why Game Pass is the worst thing to have ever happened to Xbox. You're essentially doing a Netflix-style subscription to "rent" games, and when that expires, you either have to renew, or buy the game in question.

Best solution, really, is to buy it, whether digitally or physically.

Once they get rid of "come-and-go" mechanics, such as making all tour reward cars (including those in the base Builders Cup) available to buy and rent in Free Play, and that all career mode tours are permanent, more people will be drawn to the game, and more players will be more than likely to return.

Then Turn Ten can focus on adding more tracks, both new and old, more cars, including the "fun" ones, such as SUV's, rally cars, off-roaders and weird/wacky vehicles, as well as New to Forza and the recycling of "forgotten" cars from the 360 era, as well as game modes that were previously unavailable such as split-screen, drag racing and drifting.
 
FOMO is wrong and the car prize are pointless, at least they could make them interesting if they could be used in the next série or a dedicated championship, it was made this way in the older FM et FH

They need to adapt otherwise the game will be dead soon
 
They need to adapt otherwise the game will be dead soon
Isn't the game already "dead"? Is multiplayer cross-platform? If it is, then when I watch a streamer playing multiplayer and they observe that the lobbies hardly ever have anyone who can get within 2 seconds a lap of their times, and the game feels dead to them, then the game essentially is dead.

I'm lucky in that I have 2 PCs that are capable of running the game, so it's not that much trouble for me to run the game on a 2nd PC to AFK the FOMO events while I do something else on the 1st PC. But even then, with all the clicking through menus and loading times to get from race to race, it's frankly torture to do all the events, even with the races themselves done AFK. If someone only has one device that can run the game, it's got to be hugely unappealing.

I know people will say Steam stats aren't representative, but you can get AC on PS and Xbox as well:

fm vs ac aug 2024.jpg
 
In fairness, Assetto Corsa has a huge modding community and thus a lot of fanmade content to play with. FM23 being the way it is doesn't.

Though I imagine FM2 or FM4 gaining better activity if they were re-released than fm23 does now.
 
Although it has improved, I think that the fact FM is not a showcase game for PC also hurts it. On the contrary, Forza Horizon 5 is always a benchmark whenever anyone wants to measure PC performance.
 
^ FM2 and not FM3? A lack of tracks really hurt 2 imo.
(3 is personally my all-time favourite.)
I was just giving 2 random examples. FM3 could also fit here.

But yeah, I prefer FM2 to 3. FM3 had more content, but something about how the game was presented made me feel less invested in it than FM2. Mainly with the career mode.
 
Also, were there any valid sources that mention Phil Spencer was driving home the whole "player engagement" nonsense over in Gamescom?
That's a good point, I thought I'd tuned out towards the end of Phil and Sarah Bond speaking on Day 1 live that opened with the Forza Horizon hide and seek trailer then pretty much straight to them, watched again don't think I heard engagement.



He does say to check him out to see what he plays 'P3 on Xbox Live' took me here on Google:


Appears to have 35hrs in FM, 140hrs in FH5 and wanted vehicles in Starfield, 100hrs. Several hundred hrs in Diablo IV as he suggested.

A decent Motorsport to Horizon ratio I'd say for the newer game? Hopefully it's one of the games he pushes on to be great, like he spoke of a requirement for.

Super Woden GT 2 only appears to have 4 mins play time, most other games pretty low (hour or so) too.
 
I wish I would echo that statement a thousand times more. Live service doesn't bode well especially if they just release it in an unfinished state.

Also, were there any valid sources that mention Phil Spencer was driving home the whole "player engagement" nonsense over in Gamescom?

That's a good point, I thought I'd tuned out towards the end of Phil and Sarah Bond speaking on Day 1 live that opened with the Forza Horizon hide and seek trailer then pretty much straight to them, watched again don't think I heard engagement.



He does say to check him out to see what he plays 'P3 on Xbox Live' took me here on Google:


Appears to have 35hrs in FM, 140hrs in FH5 and wanted vehicles in Starfield, 100hrs. Several hundred hrs in Diablo IV as he suggested.

A decent Motorsport to Horizon ratio I'd say for the newer game? Hopefully it's one of the games he pushes on to be great, like he spoke of a requirement for.

Super Woden GT 2 only appears to have 4 mins play time, most other games pretty low (hour or so) too.

I need to apologise here as I read something on Gamescom Day 1 which I took to be true and clearly isn't. I should know better than to trust what I see on the internet even if it appears to be a reasonable source.

I think the source I read was referring back to a 2021 interview with IGN, where player engagement was listed as the number one metric, above console sales and game sales. Not the same as player engagement being the ONLY thing of interest, so again I apologise for misrepresentation of that.


However, if player engagement was the most important thing to Xbox in 2021, then is it reasonable to assume it still is now?
 
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I was just giving 2 random examples. FM3 could also fit here.

But yeah, I prefer FM2 to 3. FM3 had more content, but something about how the game was presented made me feel less invested in it than FM2. Mainly with the career mode.
The only downside to the earlier games was you were limited to what car and track combinations they decided on for events. I always remember thinking that with FM4 and a Shelby Daytona event. (There were arcade modes but they were really limited in terms of options). So while FM should have a detailed career mode, at least with free play we can create endless car and track combinations.
 
Good news. It took a bit longer than the promised 48 hours (more like 96), but I finally have my Duracell suit.
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Excellent.
What did you do for those 96 hours? Were you able to recharge your batteries?


Here's a little interesting stat I worked out yesterday.

There are 170 cars which cost 300k or more (although some are reward cars we already have). A 9 minute race in the Open Tour (with VIP and Podium bonus) earns you approx 18k credits. At that rate, it requires 425 hours+ to buy those 170 cars.

Then you only have 430 cars left to buy...
 
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The only downside to the earlier games was you were limited to what car and track combinations they decided on for events. I always remember thinking that with FM4 and a Shelby Daytona event.
True, but I would still have preferred it that way now; at least the career structure would be more fun. The best foot forward now would be having the Free Play mode FM has now plus a career mode like in the early games.
 
There are 170 cars which cost 300k or more (although some are reward cars we already have). A 9 minute race in the Open Tour (with VIP and Podium bonus) earns you approx 18k credits. At that rate, it requires 425 hours+ to buy those 170 cars.

Then you only have 430 cars left to buy
And all this guy wanted to do was help us out with that. A gentleman. A scholar. A true friend in times of need.
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Hey, are the tracks picked for the builders cup events randomized? I was doing the C8 Corvette event and one of the races was on Yas Marina, which I thought was an update track. Or were races added to the builders cup events?
 
Hey, are the tracks picked for the builders cup events randomized? I was doing the C8 Corvette event and one of the races was on Yas Marina, which I thought was an update track. Or were races added to the builders cup events?
They have made some changes and replaced some races with update tracks.

The Porsche showcase at the end of the bottom row is now the Full (24H) Nurburgring track and you get to drive from dusk into dark on the Nordschleife.
 
They have made some changes and replaced some races with update tracks.
Newer circuits were added to Career events, yes.
Thank you both.
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Also, I just thought of a 2nd flaw to the prize car issue I brought up. Making players do more races to earn one prize car quickly for the sake of player engagement is honestly going to do the opposite effect. Players don't want to waste time with little gain more often than not. If they went and added prize cars for individual events instead of a series of them; that would increase player motivation.
 
I think the FH5 approach of giving us one free car per week for roughly 20 minutes of effort is very reasonable.

The idea of spending hours just for a single car puts me off, as you suggest.
I thought it was bad enough when we had to clear 16 events to obtain an exclusive car, but the Road to Race strand consists of 32 events. Just to get one friggin car? Absolutely insane. I don’t have much time to play and the whole FOMO aspect just makes it a stress factor in my life. Not what a game is supposed to be. I’m considering giving up and then see what Turn 10 might do to bring expired reward cars back around. Hopefully they can come up with something less demanding.
 
I think the FH5 approach of giving us one free car per week for roughly 20 minutes of effort is very reasonable.

The idea of spending hours just for a single car puts me off, as you suggest.
The 6× accelerated tyre wear adds another level of aggravation for me. I came back from holiday and sleepdrove through the endurance tour in two or three days with less hassle. I'm not sure I could do this series if I couldn't space it out. It really isn't fun at all so far.
 
I know it's easy for us to demand when we don't have to do the work, but I do think the game needs more content added in these updates. Besides the fact that it would add a little more excitement to the game overall and make it feel like its progressing better, that new content could be utilized to help make the grind less tedious... kinda.

Having more new cars in the update as "Featured" cars would give us something new to play with each week, and that content lining up with the Featured Career thing for that week would help. Then at least we would have a fresh car to level up in the Featured Tour and customize to use for the otherwise boring same-y feeling events.

When you boot up the game after an update and can't use any of the new stuff until you grind, it makes it feel like there isn't actually anything fresh or new and interesting. Figuring out a way to let us actually use the new content to do things would be a big positive step forward.

The way the game sits now, we basically have do 20+ races using old content to unlock 1 new car, and then that car gets 1 Showcase race and then... possibly nothing. Using the JGTC Skyline as an example, it has no rivals in the game to set up Free Play races with, the GTX hopper hasn't been in rotation for multiplayer, and because many people don't have it you can't even really do anything in private lobbies with it either other than abuse the trick to drive locked cars. At least the Aston will be able to be used in the GT2 hopper which is regularly in rotation.

I'm guessing this FOMO stuff isn't going anywhere though, as universally unpopular as it is, and T10 continue to show a lack of creativity and very little willingness to experiment, so might as well settle in.

The 6× accelerated tyre wear adds another level of aggravation for me.

You can just turn off the tire wear thing in difficulty and not have to worry about it. I did it for the Endurance Series thing because I didn't want to babysit the controller to tell the car to make a pit stop when I was having the AI drive for me.

Personally though, the tire wear strategy stuff is the only part of these that I find engaging at all as at least there is some mental stimulation trying to figure out the optimal strategy and it can be fun to see if you can make an alternate strategy work... Still not engaging enough for me to actually do more than one or two of them myself though, as I can get the strategy stuff in multiplayer as well where I can actually have a good/interesting/exciting race at the same time.

This is kinda part of the problem with all the complaining about Career content though too... Everyone talks about expanding the Career as if it's this no-brainer thing to do and totally unreasonable that they haven't so far, but everyone wants different things. If they do the same stuff over and over some complain it's boring, and if they do something like add tire wear to make it more interesting and introduce strategy to otherwise brainless monotonous events, some complain. They will never be able to please the different types of players in their playerbase, so it kinda seems that people would be better off just making their own events in Free Play where they can turn off tire wear or only drive race cars or never have to drive in the rain or whatever else they want... but for some reason Free Play isn't acceptable to many people.
 
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