Forza Motorsport Review: Rebooted and Resuited

  • Thread starter Famine
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Confus
I played about an hour and yes, it does feel like it could've just been FM8. If you have played any previous FM game you already know what you're getting into. The physics are pretty good, if a little biased towards understeer, but they do feel more sim-like, which I think is good.

Unfortunately the car leveling thing is going to annoy me, I can already tell. Also, they are still using the same exact aftermarket wheels they've been using since time began. Same models, same exact everything. Really kind of bummed about that and hopeful they make some meaningful updates to the list.
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Bah I totally forgot about the tuning stuff. Yea, my general complaint about the series over the years is that they've all felt like.. I dunno. The annual sports game release of racing games, if that makes sense? It feels like very little changes happen between each entry. The tuning/parts options were an example of that. Even the menu looked the same. Same icons. Same general parts options. Same crappy wheel selection.

This also applied to many of the cars. They just kept carrying them over across generations and some looked horrible. I have yet to see a picture of the R32 GTR (if its even in this :rolleyes:) but it's always looked horrible.

I'm sitting here watching more coverage of it. Reading your comment. All confirming what I suspected.. And yet part of me is still like.. "but.. I still wanna try it?" Ugghhh I hate my lack of self control.
 
Seikenfreak
Bah I totally forgot about the tuning stuff. Yea, my general complaint about the series over the years is that they've all felt like.. I dunno. The annual sports game release of racing games, if that makes sense? It feels like very little changes happen between each entry. The tuning/parts options were an example of that. Even the menu looked the same. Same icons. Same general parts options. Same crappy wheel selection.

This also applied to many of the cars. They just kept carrying them over across generations and some looked horrible. I have yet to see a picture of the R32 GTR (if its even in this :rolleyes:) but it's always looked horrible.

I'm sitting here watching more coverage of it. Reading your comment. All confirming what I suspected.. And yet part of me is still like.. "but.. I still wanna try it?" Ugghhh I hate my lack of self control.
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It’s not like it’s an unplayable nightmare or anything, the racing is pretty fun and the physics are good, like I said. Good car and track selection, too. It just feels like a regular old numbered Forza release with new tracks and cars. I’m almost wondering if it wasn’t meant to come out years ago as FM8 and MS just put it on ice for a few years so they could market it as a whole new start for the franchise and people could forget about the mess that was FM7.
 
Personally from all the previews & reviews I've seen, I'd give it a 3/5 or 7/10.

Whilst people are mentioning the bad AI, the bad progression system, the lack of tracks & odd graphical issues. Everyone still seems to be scoring it quite highly. These things are a huge part of a racing game & for all of them to have significant issues is very disappointing.
 
Nakano219
So what I'm gathering from the reviews I've read (including this one) is that it's a good, competent game, but not really much of a reboot, and the biggest predictor of whether you'll like it is still whether you liked previous FMs. Does that sound about right?
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The reboot for me is in:
1. The completely revamped multiplayer experience (which may well be a huge change)
2. How pluggable the game is, that they can basically add new tracks and cars directly into the core single player experience effortlessly moving forwards


Actual driving feels like an evolution of their FH5 driving experience with more nuance, which is pretty much perfect to me.
Graphically it's a mixed bag with some visuals looking as good as FH5 but others not (e.g. skybox blurry, some times of day not looking as good even in HDR, etc....). I hope they can work on improving these as well as adding content over time.


Personally I was expecting an improved Forza experience and got it. The lack of chronic lift off oversteer, more accurate steering and more planted cars (not upset by curbs) actually making the driving feel considerably nicer than FH7 to me.
 
Confus
It’s not like it’s an unplayable nightmare or anything, the racing is pretty fun and the physics are good, like I said. Good car and track selection, too. It just feels like a regular old numbered Forza release with new tracks and cars. I’m almost wondering if it wasn’t meant to come out years ago as FM8 and MS just put it on ice for a few years so they could market it as a whole new start for the franchise and people could forget about the mess that was FM7.
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Yea, I know its not bad. Hence why Famine's review score is still on the high end. It's obviously not a bad or broken game in the grand scheme of things.

I feel like a hopeless romantic of racing games I guess. I want the genre to advance or grow as a whole. You'd like to think these companies (excluding Polyphony) look at other games and think to themselves "Okay, we need to do at least as good as X game or what are we even doing here." Whether that be a complete package or individual features. Yet it feels like every racing game out there just does its own thing and we've got this scattered mess of almost-incredible games. I've been through the game release roller coaster so many times you'd think all hope would've been stomped out by now.

In FM's case, I'd hoped Microsoft sat down and said.. Okay, our first party stuff is like dead in the water. The Forza Horizon series has essentially out performed the Motorsport series. Its stagnant and we need to reinvigorate it. How about, now that Horizon offers a more arcade-y, free-form, fun, open world experience for that demographic of player.. And Motorsport lacks any sort've identity or purpose.. Lets make Motorsport a bit more simulation focused than it previously was. We can try and rise above GT in that aspect. Whats in the genre? Games like Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, rFactor and even older titles like the SimBin titles have long term retention. Look at iRacing and how much money they are charging for every little thing. That could be us! Except, let's undercut them since people complain about how expensive it all is. We can make up the difference by selling to a larger audience. Everything is about games-as-a-service now. We need the next Motorsport to have a long life. We also offer Forza on PC, which our biggest competitor does not (yet), so lets use that extra hardware to our advantage. Let's stop pumping the same game out, take a step back, Horizon can carry us for awhile, and lets come up with a new identity for Motorsport. A style. Features that the team has always wanted but didn't have the time/budget. Lets build a really robust platform that we can build on for many years and monetize the **** out of for a ROI.

And instead it appears to be.. No one could figure out a new identity for it. It feels as flat as ever. We'll make the same thing but from the ground up. We aren't coming out strong on the post-release content structure or DLC road map. The gameplay structure itself seems bad. Copy, paste various features from the last one.

Because even if they offer a bunch of cars or tracks for this latest entry, I can't see myself being excited. The core game is still the same.

Sorry, that was a whole unecessary rant. I'm just passionate about this stuff. The potential for a big new entry doesn't come along very often.
 
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skazz
Having played about 10 races now on Xbox Series X, I will say a few things:

  • Graphics are a bit variable. Most of the time it looks really good, but there are some obvious misses. I expect we are seeing bugs.
  • Controller support is almost exactly what I dreamed of : FH5 as basis, with more nuance and accuracy required, but none of the odd behaviour I used to hate in FM7.
  • Physics are probably a little easier than FM7, definitely not a sim. This is a game to play on a big HDR TV at 4k with your controller and just have fun. Which is exactly what I wanted, so thumbs up from me
    :gtpflag:
  • CarPG element is annoying, but I couldn't really care. I was just racing the Jaguar F-Type stock against the AI in quick races and loving every minute of it.
  • Car list is good for me. Track list is a little meagre (more variant layouts should have been included). But since the base game is pretty much exactly what I personally wanted, that's fine.
  • The stock 911 GT3-R (Race Day Car Pack) doesn't have stupid lift off oversteer and just turns as you'd expect an aero-coated slick shod 911 GT3-R to turn. Finally!
  • Edit: Replays are not inspired in terms of camera viewpoints, definitely not a patch on Gran Turismo. I used to race then watch replay all the time in GT, but won't bother much in FM2023.

So yeah, it's FH5 driving feel on race tracks with a bit more nuance (and more realistic front end grip). Awesome!
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The point about replays, brings me to how I first encountered the franchise. I played Forza for the game play itself. GT is for me to enjoy watching the replays. However, the gameplay has gotten better. So, it looks like Forza, at least, has that good racing to the finish, intact.
 
Famine
Indeed, but it's senseless that it can't be decoupled. There's no reason I shouldn't be told that my sector was an 8.8 even if I'm not getting 100 CarXP for it; learning the track shouldn't be tied to owning the car.
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I'm browsing through the Known Issues list and I stumbled upon this: :)

"General Gameplay - Freeplay players in rental cars don't see segment scores"
 
The car list is better than I expected, but a few personal favorites are missing. Also, Sebring please come back soon. Other than that I feel pretty open-minded about this game. Though, I probably won’t grab it until the end of year holidays (assuming it’s not considered FM7.5 by then).
 
I’m quite impressed tbh. Firstly that the New Zealand trick worked so easily, secondly that it seems to tick a LOT more boxes than any Forza or Gran Turismo game I’ve played over the years. As I think I said before I know what I want from a racing game and I judge any game on those standards rather than maybe what the reviews look at. I couldn’t care less about career modes, or online, or reaching different tiers or collecting upgrades. Don’t care. I want a big sandbox experience that lets me set up races my way and recreate something that feels authentic, to be able to select any car, any track, set up the opposition and rules then run a race with good physics and immersion. The way I want it.

Even GT7 doesn’t really work on that score because Gran Turismo treats itself as a game and it makes you play the game a certain way, always through the lens that Polyphony want you to experience it with quite rigid rules around the car classes etc etc. I love it for hotlapping mainly but it doesn’t let me do what I want to.

And this is the first game of this ilk that lets me do that, or seems to at least. Hooray, I can race any car straight out of the box - can’t win XP with a rented car, couldn’t care less- set everything up nicely and so on, and I’ve just had a really enjoyable race at Spa driving in a big field of modern touring cars with changeable weather, the handling is much nicer (less front end scrabbling for grip in a really annoying way) and it all seems to hold up technically very nicely. Result.
 
Seikenfreak
In FM's case, I'd hoped Microsoft sat down and said.. Okay, our first party stuff is like dead in the water. The Forza Horizon series has essentially out performed the Motorsport series. Its stagnant and we need to reinvigorate it. How about, now that Horizon offers a more arcade-y, free-form, fun, open world experience for that demographic of player.. And Motorsport lacks any sort've identity or purpose.. Lets make Motorsport a bit more simulation focused than it previously was. We can try and rise above GT in that aspect. Whats in the genre? Games like Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, rFactor and even older titles like the SimBin titles have long term retention. Look at iRacing and how much money they are charging for every little thing. That could be us! Except, let's undercut them since people complain about how expensive it all is. We can make up the difference by selling to a larger audience. Everything is about games-as-a-service now. We need the next Motorsport to have a long life. We also offer Forza on PC, which our biggest competitor does not (yet), so lets use that extra hardware to our advantage. Let's stop pumping the same game out, take a step back, Horizon can carry us for awhile, and lets come up with a new identity for Motorsport. A style. Features that the team has always wanted but didn't have the time/budget. Lets build a really robust platform that we can build on for many years and monetize the **** out of for a ROI.
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Isn't that quite literally what they did? make it more sim focused. make it GaaS. add new features such as CaRPG XP system & new qualifying system. clean up the multiplayer so that the famous Forza rammers disappear.
 
64bitmodels
Isn't that quite literally what they did? make it more sim focused. make it GaaS. add new features such as CaRPG XP system & new qualifying system. clean up the multiplayer so that the famous Forza rammers disappear.
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Doesn't necessarily seem like it so far. Haven't played it myself of course, but from all the footage and coverage I'm watching, the way the cars move and behave and wheel use etc, its functions on the same level it was already at. Theres also no VR option or I guess triple screens? I was hoping for something closer to PC2 lets say. I love that game/engine. Just wish it had more cars. Most of the dedicated sims are all just race cars.

If GaaS then I would've expected it to get off on a better foot. I'm seeing lots of people say they've outlined their expected track/car output for the next months or years and it doesn't sound like much. As much as I don't like get nickle and dimed, if its done right then it benefits both parties. Maybe they launch with some car and tracks available. Just to set an expectation of pricing and structure. And then say a new track is planned every month for the next 12 months. Maybe release one new car a week for $2.00. Buy 5 cars for $8. Release cohesive sets: Here is a set of 5 1980s Group A touring cars with a set of tracks that those cars raced on for $20. Is this still possible? Sure, but I think it's unlikely to be this robust because they haven't already said so.

The CarPG system they've got going on sounds horrible, IMO. My preferred play style is closer to traditional GT or some of the other Forza games. Give me a wide range of events, let me pick what I want to do, but section racing classes off like tiers for some structure. I want to start with slow cars and move up to fast stuff if I want. I don't care about modern F1 or Le Mans prototypes or GT3 cars etc. Group C? GT1? 2000 F1? Absolutely.

Haven't heard anything about a qualifying system. Just seen the thing where you pick your grid position. Super GT mentioned being forced to do some practice laps prior to every race. That makes sense for a difficult game, but Forza is typically very casual/easy so that sounds annoying.

And Multiplayer might be better. Maybe they made the net code better. Maybe thats what took years because they want to focus on online and make it an Esports platform (ugh). In my eyes, Forza always attracted a more casual audience and the online experience reflected that. I'll wait to see how bumper-car-esque it is from coverage. Having said all that, I have no interest in multiplayer. Unless its like a co-op career progression mode that I can play with a friend, I don't really care.

Edit: All of this sounds harsh. My aim wasn't to just bash on the game in here. But I guess I feel the need to elaborate on my point of view if people ask. Maybe it'll find its audience. It's very likely I'll still try it. It's unfortunate for Forza's release timing that I finally got around to building a dedicated PC for my sim rig this last week (boy, that was fun using a hand dolly to move it around the house to put it in front of the TV) and have been installing, setting up and trying various games on it. So the experiences of GTR2, PnG3, PC2, AC, ACC, AMS2, and GT7 are fresh in my mind. It's incredible how good something like GTR2 feels and sounds after 15-20 years and captures a vibe and feeling, mentally and physically in the controls, that I would think these newer games could easily replicate.
 
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The only thing that sounds disappointing to me is the AI. It sounds like they still make random dumb maneuvers and the rubber banding is still present.

The rest I will have to wait until Sunday when I get back home and can have some time with the game.
 
Famine
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Forza Motorsport Review: Rebooted and Resuited​

Although it’s hard to believe, there’s been no Forza Motorsport game available to buy for close to two years, with the last title — 2017’s Forza Motorsport 7 — removed from the store as old content licences expired...
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That was a solid and interesting read, glad to hear your thoughts on the game.

Also that GRID comparison really helped visualise how you feel about Forza, I guess I’ll see for myself over the coming days how GRID-like Forza has become 🙂
 
Confus
Thanks for clarifying. That's unfortunately what I was concerned with. I really don't have the free time to devote myself to at least 45 minutes per car before I can even begin testing/tuning. I suppose it's not a bad system if you're a new player or someone who's almost constantly racing, but this change kind of leaves the more casual players out, imo.
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No, it's a bad system.
 
Famine
  • Yes, all tracks have dynamic weather and time of day. Stop asking.
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Thats great, although it seems one has no control over it in custom races.
I have also only seen the weather go from dry to wet.
Can it go from wet to dry, do drying lines form?
 
Nakano219
and the biggest predictor of whether you'll like it is still whether you liked previous FMs. Does that sound about right?
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I would clarify this by saying: if you liked FM as a series but disliked FM7's handling, you will be more likely to enjoy FM(23). I like FM1-4 a lot. I extremely dislike FM7. I'm having a blast with the way FM(23) feels.
 
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the race customization options are bad in the free game and private multiplayer...
No option to select opponents
The rule filters simply don't work
No AI option in Multiplayer
No tire and fuel wear adjustment
The AI cars is not balanced (field of 24 cars, 7-8 are Porsche gt3r )
I hope T10 brings answers about this in the near future
 
I can't tell if you did or did not tackle the big elephant in the room that is the generations old car models. You did acknowledge criticisms happening on social media, but you only glossed over they were carry overs from previous FM and FH games. Nothing on how some of these legacy models being refreshed actually go as far back as the Xbox or Xbox 360 generation. I know there are experts on this topic who can provide much better citations than I can.
 
d25bev
Personally from all the previews & reviews I've seen, I'd give it a 3/5 or 7/10.

Whilst people are mentioning the bad AI, the bad progression system, the lack of tracks & odd graphical issues. Everyone still seems to be scoring it quite highly. These things are a huge part of a racing game & for all of them to have significant issues is very disappointing.
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To be fair, those things all seem pretty much on par with most of the similar games that people might be interested in. It's hard to score something too low when it's just doing what is pretty standard for the genre. Which sucks, but I think an 8/10 for a game that is essentially "does more or less what you expect" is about how it works these days.
 
uMattzz
the race customization options are bad in the free game and private multiplayer...
No option to select opponents
The rule filters simply don't work
No AI option in Multiplayer
No tire and fuel wear adjustment
The AI cars is not balanced (field of 24 cars, 7-8 are Porsche gt3r )
I hope T10 brings answers about this in the near future
Click to expand...

I seem to be hearing conflicting things about being able to select opponents for free race. Another post I read said you could select garage cars just like GT7. This definitely the most important thing for me. Can anyone confirm/deny this
 
Wow, are the physics really that bad? Surely it's better than Project Cars 2.
 
Personally, I think the physics are an great improvement over FM7, especially with how the racecars handle (a little oversteery when pushing them hard). It's very enjoyable compared to previous iterations of FM (and yes, I played it.) :D Driving both the Toyota GT-One (TS020) and the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish was honestly a real treat!
 
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I just cant believe T10 didnt even touch freeplay mode. Its actually even worse theb FM7 as far as options is concerned and its not balanced right. This needs to be fixed I mean theres absolutely no excuse not to. AND ALLOW US TO PICK EACH AI CAR ALREADY!
 

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