Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

[Michel4AGE]

I did the 4hr race with the NSX Type R '02 @ 450PP and it's way too fast. The last 2 hours I could cruise around doing 9:20's laptimes without getting in danger. I even made an extra pitstop and drove around on sport-hard tyres a few laps.

430PP next time ?

 

[W3H5]

I did the 4hr race with the NSX Type R '02 @ 450PP and it's way too fast. The last 2 hours I could cruise around doing 9:20's laptimes without getting in danger.
430PP next time ?

I did the same thing with the 430 and had a not very exciting last 2 hours. If the NSX R is too fast then to be 'in' the race I'm guessing that the car would have to be less than 400pp.

 

[Michel4AGE]

400PP might be a real challenge..haha. There's only 1 way to find out

 

[W3H5]

Challenge accepted.

 

[Michel4AGE]

Yeah same here.. I think i'll take the FT86. Add 200kg's..total 1200kg, then turn down the power to 188hp which is 400PP. Race soft installed. That's it.

 

[W3H5]

I do all of my races with my body weight added to the car for that extra bit of realism, I don't weigh much though so it doesn't impact times greatly. All of the cars I'm thinking of are FF which I'm not too fond of. It looks like I may have no other choices though.............BMW 1 series TII? I came 3rd at GVS endurance in that a few weeks ago, should be good enough to add some thrills to the 'ring endurance.

 

[Famine]

400PP might be a real challenge..haha. There's only 1 way to find out

The current record is 425PP, and I only won that race by 7 seconds. I have a couple of options to go lower than that, but I'm doing a Sport Hard race next.

 

[Michel4AGE]

Well I'm 1hr 45min. in the race.. 7th pos. now with 9:21 best laptime. The leader is 2:16min. ahead.. I did my first pitstop after the 7th lap. We'll see how it goes but I think it'll be difficult.

 

[W3H5]

The current record is 425PP

Again, Challenge accepted. Tomorrow we shall know all! (When I'm sober)

I'm going to have the BMW 1series Tii under 425 run the 4 hour (hopefully make the top of the PP list). Wish me luck, I'm going to need it!

 

[HaylRayzor]

I read your fiction which was rather good. The question I have, I want to ask is, the 111R, is it too much for the competition? I've been putting in 7.49 laps around the north loop for the seasonals on SS, I've a feeling this eliminates the actual 'race'. Can you confirm?

The 111R would definately be too much if the R8 LMS wasn't in the race.

The 4hr Nurburg race should be split into 2 categories. With the R8 LMS, and without it. I think I'm the only one that races against the R8. It runs 8'51 average so you need more car. I picked the 111R after testing several cars and finding it had pretty much the lap times I wanted on race hard tires.

At my first pit I decided I was falling too far behind so I switched to mediums. That turned out to be a bit too fast so I switched back to hards at the end to make it more even. And it certainly worked.

I didn't know if I'd win. He was chopping seconds off my lead every sector for the last 3 laps. I drove hard the whole 4 hours and I beat the R8 by only 5 seconds.

I'm thinking for my next run (Tomorrow) I'd use a Masarati Gran Turismo, stock apart from 'box and sports suspension. Any thoughts? I can be the thread test dummy for the next run.

That's funny, because I was going to run the Maserati for this last run. I had already written the story about the Maserati.

My only mods were lightening, sports suspension, and a close-ratio 6-speed (which is darn near perfect on this car). Looks like great minds really DO think alike.
I felt it needed to be lightened because I knew I would be racing the R8.

But my testing showed it chewed up it's tires too fast. I didn't want to be in the pits every 4 laps.

 

[bonobo4]

Isn't the 111R the thing you get in the Top Gear Event? I know it was an Elise, but can't remember which.

That Elise in the event is stupidly hard to drive.

 

[Famine]

That's because it's on Comfort Hard tyres for that event.

The 4hr Nurburg race should be split into 2 categories. With the R8 LMS, and without it. I think I'm the only one that races against the R8.

I was considering some notation for races with the R8, IS F and Amuse Turbo in them. They are markedly faster and harder races.

 

[HaylRayzor]

Just did a test run with the Amuse R1 at 528PP (just happens to be what it was tuned to) on sport soft tires. I ran a best of 8'41 which should be pretty competitive with the R8. Maybe a tad too fast. Definately too much if the R8 isn't in the race.


That R1 continues to amaze me. On SS tires it feels like I've got race hards on. Very grippy. I think it's almost equal with the NSX on sport tires.

 

[Michel4AGE]

My 400PP race didn't work out too well, by the 3hr marque I was 5min. behind in 7th pos.

How much of a difference 20PP can make : I tuned the FT86 up to 420PP (220hp/1200kg) and now I'm in 1st pos. @ 6th lap. I just pitted and the S2k GT1 and 2 350z's are behind me. It's a fun race, constantly battling it out for 1-3th position.

 

[Gazumagi]

I only just hit level 30, so i can't do this race quite yet but really excited for it

Going to go for a low PP record on the first race with something like 405-410 with the spoon cr-z. Tried a 7-lap practice race to test tire/fuel use... Its a really fantastic car in terms of preserving both~the hybrid part means you can just use the free fuel each time you pit because you barely use any of it in 5 laps (which is as far as i got before i had to quit D: ). And its a really easy on the tires (assuming racing softs) because at the state i tested it it had like 200 hp and weighed 1080 kg.

Should be able to do the race on thursday hopefully

Any tips for a guy new to the race? :<

 

[bonobo4]

Sounds like a good way forward. And welcome to the site!

What were your lap times? If you can do average laps of around 9:10 or better you should be fine.

 

[Gazumagi]

I believe they were around 9:40, unfortunately~but it did look like i could do 7-lap pit cycles without crazy spins and such, so im hoping that only having to pit 3 times will make up for it.

 

[Aqua F1]

I did mine in the Lexus Racing Concept 08. I found it way overpowered at the end when I learnt the track though although the frequent 1 lap = 1 spin held me back. Anyway half way through the race I spun on the 5th lap of my tyre stints and then again and again. Basically my tyres went dead and I had to crawl back to the pits not daring to go above 20mph at the corners! Ended up what I think was 5 minutes behind 1st place at the 2:15 hours mark. Obviously put on the racing softs from running racing hards and managed to overtake 1st with 15 minutes remaining!

Way to overpowered now as I've learnt the track a lot better. I only spun once in the remaining 5 laps! Of course now if I was to do it again I'd pick one with a bit less PP going with your experiences but make mine a tad faster as I'm easily sure you guys are a lot faster around the ring!

 

[HaylRayzor]

I'm thinking of having a run at the low PP myself. Obviously I WON'T want the R8 in the field.

Just did a test run at 415PP and did 9'23.

Edit: Even if I only do one pit stop this probably isn't fast enough. Oh well, it was just a dream...

I may have a shot at low hp though. hmmm....

Edit: Oh yeah, I can definately beat the low hp record. Back in the old GSXR/4. Test run at 150hp was 8'47, pulling away from the AI. I think I'll run 130. When I get a chance of course. It took me 6 hours to run the race last time, with stopping to take notes and such.

So the question is, do I make my next run sport tires, or low hp... Decisions, decisions...

This is getting scary. I think I'm addicted to the 4 hours of nurburgring...

 

[W3H5]

Looking at the competition and my 400pp Focus ST I'm retracting my my statement in which I accepted this challenge. I will be engaging the 'ring in something that is at least a slight bit competitive but still in the realms of a normal car.

 

[C-ZETA]

I was considering some notation for races with the R8, IS F and Amuse Turbo in them. They are markedly faster and harder races.

To be honest, I'm not all that sure about the IS F. I know for a fact that when I did the B-Spec Tsukuba 9h (which has the same line up minus a few cars, R8 LMS included ) that the IS F there got beaten by both a Mine's Skyline '06 and an HPA TT. I think maybe an HPA R32 beat it as well but I can't really remember. It did beat the CT230R though (partly because that thing has to make more pitstops then). I know that it isn't the same event, but the lineup is largely the same and it makes me wonder if the IS F is as much of a threat as others think. But it's your call...

I myself have been trying for a race with the S2000 in it but a) The PP will be higher since I'm not that good at driving in this game compared to many others on here and b) I don't know if I can really last a race out for 4 hours, even in the summer holidays But we'll see. Time will tell...

 

[Famine]

Going to go for a low PP record on the first race with something like 405-410 with the spoon cr-z.

Nice style

This is getting scary. I think I'm addicted to the 4 hours of nurburgring...

That's the spirit! 👍

To be honest, I'm not all that sure about the IS F. I know for a fact that when I did the B-Spec Tsukuba 9h (which has the same line up minus a few cars, R8 LMS included ) that the IS F there got beaten by both a Mine's Skyline '06 and an HPA TT. I think maybe an HPA R32 beat it as well but I can't really remember. It did beat the CT230R though (partly because that thing has to make more pitstops then). I know that it isn't the same event, but the lineup is largely the same and it makes me wonder if the IS F is as much of a threat as others think. But it's your call...

I haven't encountered it yet - and no-one's written up a race with it as an opponent - to log any times. There's only one way to find out

 

[C-ZETA]

I haven't encountered it yet - and no-one's written up a race with it as an opponent - to log any times. There's only one way to find out

GTsail's raced against it 4 times already. He should probably know. Plus he was racing against the RUF CTR2 more than the IS F...

EDIT: The 2nd lineup after a console reset features the CTR2 and the IS F. However it also has the S2000 as well so I might try and get some data on all three there. I should try for a lineup with the R8 LMS, S2000 and IS F all in one but I have no idea if that will ever show up. I'm not sure but I think that the G37 might be in the lineup somewhere but I have no idea about that so I don't know.

 

[Famine]

Well, we have no race timing data for the IS F as yet, so I can't rank it in the first post.

I've seen the High End G37 in a race before, but I can't remember why, when or what it did. Helpfully.

 

[W3H5]

Attempt: Lotus Elise 111R '04

PP 430
HP 184
Tyres: RS
Mods: 6 speed close ratio transmission

Current known opponents -
AEM S2000
Art Morrison 'Vette
Lexus IS-F Racing Concept
Mines Evo VI
Amuse Carbon R (R34)
Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo
Nismo 400R
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune
Opera Performance 350Z


Winner: Amuse S2000GT1 Turbo
111R: 6th. Total time - 4:04:53​

Stint 1. 00:00 - 1:05:47. ********** Fastest lap so far: 9:16:696

Lap 1: From the start the 111R was dropped down to 10th by the first corner. Around the GP section the car's performance through the corners more than made up for it's lack of raw power and moved into 8th by the time it hit the north loop, passing the Evo VI and the Nismo 400R. Half way around the leading pack came into sight, became within reach and were passed by the time the fast, mid section of the track appeared where the 111R couldn't match the pace of the Amuse S2000 and the two cars following it. It was, however, possible to maintain the lead by sticking tight to the racing line and making it extra difficult for the chasers to pass. The lead was maintained until the last straight where the 111R was over taken and left struggling to stay ahead of the next group of cars, including IS-F and the Opera Performance 350Z.

Lap 2: The start/finish straight saw the 111R drop down a few more places into 10th where most of the lap was spent with one of the S2000s just ahead at every corner until the fast, mid section (Kesselchen). The rest of the lap was spent making up as much time on the corners as possible while the 'Vette continued to close the gap in 11th. Roughly a second lost due to a spin at Wippermann.
*Fastest lap set.

Lap 3 + 4: Uneventful.

Lap 5: Beginning to run low on grip, the AEM S2000, Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune and the Mines Evo VI were lacking the pace to hold time over the 111R and were passed with relative ease bringing the 111R into 7th. By the time the start/finish line was passed the 111R had made it up into 4th due to other cars pitting for tyres.

Lap 6: The three cars that had been passed in the pits were now hot on the trail and closing fast on fresh rubber. At the fast, mid section (Kesselchen) they made their way passed and disappeared into the distance.

Lap 7: Two of the front runners must have lost a great deal of time in a gravel trap somewhere because before the end of the lap they had been passed easily on the twisty sections to put the 111R into 5th place before entering the pits for fresh tyres.


Stint 2. 1:05:47 - 2:21:22 ********** Fastest lap so far: 9:16:696

The 111R is proving too slow on the straights to make 1st place. It's cornering abilities are amazing but it's just not enough to compete with the lap times set by the front runners. It's light weight gives it plenty of time on the RS before a change is needed. Between 7500 and 9000K (limit) the revs have been kept for optimum engine performance where it tops out at 150MPH.

Lap 8: During the pit stop the 111R was passed by several cars dropping it down to 9th place

Lap 9 + 10: Uneventful other than a spin at the same corner as the incident on lap 2 (Wippermann) through mistaking it for Pflazgarten.

Lap 11: Passed two cars across the start/finish line while they pitted for tyres. Into 7th place but currently 6:16 minutes behind the leader going onto lap 12.

Lap 12: The 111R passes one of the S2000, which is travelling at low speeds around Klostertal, and moves up to 6th .

Lap 13: Across the start/finish line another car in the pits concedes a place moving the 111R into 5th.

Lap 14: Uneventful.

Lap 15: The S2000 that was passed on lap 12 retakes it's place in 5th ahead of the 111R and moves off with good pace. Behind, the Nismo GT-R R-Tune has moved up to the rear only around half a second away. It remains behind the duration of the lap thanks to some crafty blocking and hugging the curbs, only over taking the 111R going onto the start/finish straight and entering the pit before it. New RS tyres for the next stint. (And a cigarette and some chicken for me!)

Stint 3: 2:21:22 - 3:18:06 ************* Fastest lap so far 9:13.932


lap 16: Coming out on new tyres the 111R was pursued the whole way round by the R-Tune Skyline which put in a good performance trying to over take but could not maintain pace through the bendy sections of track.

Laps 17 - 20: After putting in some consistent times and racing tooth and nail with the R-Tune, bumper to bumper, the S2000 GT1 Turbo passes us both to go a lap up on lap 19. Current position - 6th.

Lap 21: In for it's last pit stop at 3:18:06 at the start of 21. The 111R has gained a fair lead over the R-Tune so that it re-enters the track just ahead into the first corner. New fastest lap set*


Final stint: 3:18:06 - 4:04:53

Lap 22 - 25: Uneventful last few laps, more close racing with the R-Tune meant some serious concentration and clean laps were needed. The 111R delivered it's last stand on the last corner before the start/finish after being overtaken on the last straight by the R-Tune, squeezing up the inside and blocking the way through up to the finish to take 6th overall.

Conclusion

The 111R is a fairly enjoyable car to attempt this race with. It's ability to eat it's way through corners makes the whole race a fun experience, despite it's lack of straight line speed due to not being tuned. With some modifications to up the power a tad this car could be a contender for the GT1 Turbo.
Driven on the limit, with very few mistakes and quite aggressive tactics my attempt was foiled by the lack of top end in the Lotus making it (at these power settings) no where near close competition for the front runners.

 

[C-ZETA]

Right then, time for some testing results of the second lineup with the Amuse S2000, the IS F RC and also the 350Z RS just for kicks. However I'm gonna be doing a review of the whole field after one hour of racing in the race. Also bear in mind there's only 11 cars rather than 12 in the start lineup since I'm not including my car since I wasn't actually racing it.

This was how it started...
1. RUF CTR2 '96
2. Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08
3. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
4. Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo
5. HPA Motorsports Stage II R32
6. Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera
7. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
8. Nismo 400R '96
9. Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
10. Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS
11. Opera Performance 350Z '04

And this was how it finished. All cars finished on Lap 7 and all the gaps to the leader correspond to what it was at the end of 6 laps. Any cars on out laps pitted on Lap 5, any on in laps pitted on Lap 6, the 350Z RS would most likely pit on Lap 7 because the tyres and fuel wouldn't go 8 laps.
1. Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo. Final position at the end of Sector 12. Last lap of the hour was 9:34.809 (out lap). Best lap was an 8:28.863. Had no left rear tyre left by the time it was in the pits.
2. RUF CTR2 '96. Final position in the middle of Sector 8. Last lap of the hour was 10:02.706 (out lap). Gap was 2:22.932 to leader. Best lap was 8:55.483. Goes off its front tyres as opposed to rear (4WD).
3. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06. Final position was at the end of Sector 7. Last lap of the hour was a 10:12.774 (out lap). Gap was 2:47.662 to the leader. Best lap was 9:01.367.
4. HPA Motorsports Stage II R32. Final position was in the middle of Sector 7. Last lap of the hour was 10:13.673 (out lap). Gap was 3:08.686 to the leader. Best lap was 9:04.898. Was getting closed in on by the IS F Racing Concept at the end.
5. Lexus IS F Racing Concept. Final position was close to the middle of Sector 7. Last lap of the hour was a 10:01.138 (out lap). Gap was 3:18.616 to the leader. Best lap was 8:55.669. Had lost all rear tyres before pit stop in between Karussell and Schwalbenschwanz, had fallen to 8th after pitstop. Faster on an out lap than the RUF CTR2 but not by much and would probably be up to 3rd by next pitstop. Tyre wear is massive though as you can see. Did manage to keep on track despite lack of rear tyres.
6. Amuse Nismo 380RS SuperLeggera. Final position was a little while after the beginning of Sector 7. Last lap of the hour was 9:37.982 (in lap). Gap was 2:20.364 to the leader (it was running 2nd at the time). Best lap was 9:01.542. Best placed 6 lap pitter.
7. Amuse S2000 GT1. Final position was a small while after the beginning of Sector 7. Last lap of the hour was a 10:13.977 (in lap). Gap was 2:22.576 to the leader (was running 3rd). Best lap was 8:58.249. Rear tyres are gone long before the pit entry.
8. Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R. Final position was at the end of Sector 5. Last lap of the hour was 10:26.284 (out lap). Gap was 4:09.238 to the leader. Best lap was 9:13.242.
9. Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS. Final position was closing in on the middle of Sector 5. Last lap of the hour was 9:36.099. Gap was 4:23.891 to the leader. Best lap was 9:28.972. Only car in this group capable of a seven-lapper.
10. Opera Performance 350Z '04. Final position was in the middle of Sector 4. Last lap of the hour was 10:11.175 (in lap). Gap was 3:57.580 to the leader (had been running 8th). Best lap was 9:14.750. Was the last runner ahead of the IS F before it pitted, and would almost certainly be ahead of the 350Z RS after it pitted.
11. Nismo 400R '96. Final position was at the end of Sector 2. Last lap of the hour was 9:42.883 (in lap). Gap was 4:42.151 to the leader. Best lap was 9:30.208. Only seemed to stop for fuel weirdly, the tyres were OK but the fuel was low.

So there's my test results. Don't know how useful this will actually be, considering 1) the lineup could be different, 2) these aren't average laptimes, only bests and 3) I only did this over one hour. Still, should at least provide a decent amount of use for all of you.

 

[Famine]

Well, my Jag grid, because of you, contains the following:

1. High End G37
2. AEM S2000
3. Ruf CTR2 '96
4. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
5. Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08
6. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-Tune (R32) '00
7. Jaguar XJ220 '92 on Sport Hards
8. RE Amemiya FD3S RX-7
9. Nismo 400R
10. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
11. Gran Turismo Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS
12. Amuse Carbon R (R34) '04

That's four newbies, so if it all goes wrong I'm blaming you

 

[GTsail]

Well, my Jag grid, contains the following:

1. Jaguar XJ220 '92 on Sport Hards
2. Ruf CTR2 '96
3. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
4. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
5. Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08
6. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-Tune (R32) '00
7. AEM S2000
8. Amuse Carbon R (R34) '04
9. High End G37
10. RE Amemiya FD3S RX-7
11. Gran Turismo Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS
12. Nismo 400R

Good luck with the Jaguar Famine!

I have re-ordered your grid with my prediction of the finishing order.

I consider the Lexus ISF Racing Concept to be a mid-pack car, so I don't think that its the car to worry about. The strongest car in your lineup is usually the RUF CTR2 '96. I have not raced against the RE Amemiya RX-7 enough to really place it properly, but I also consider it a mid-pack car (and interestingly it is usually on a 7 lap tire stint).

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Famine]

Right now the Jag is in a lot of pain. The tyres are getting chewed badly and the fuel is being used so fast there ought to be a leak somewhere. I'm about 45s down on my Countach attempt - which had the Ruf CTR coming in second - which was effectively a three minute win, which leaves me fifteen seconds off the pace and I've done my fastest pitstop already.

Which is a bit of a sod.

 

[ItsHim]

Right now the Jag is in a lot of pain. The tyres are getting chewed badly and the fuel is being used so fast there ought to be a leak somewhere.

I know how you feel, same story with the LFA. My feeling is a rear wing helps a lot and maybe the ironing board on your Countach was more use than pressing your shirt? SLS stealth did just fine opposed to the tiny wing gimmick of the LFA.

Good luck Famine!