Four-Time World Champion Coque Lopez Steps Back from Gran Turismo World Series

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Four-Time World Champion Coque Lopez Steps Back from Gran Turismo World Series​

The 2025 Gran Turismo World Series may be just around the corner, but it’s going to have to do without one of its most-decorated drivers as four-time champion Coque Lopez has announced he will no longer take part...

 

[IngRobNy]

Understandable, without any prize money, you can't live on fame, trophies or gifts alone.

 

[zeptrans]

Hope the best, good wishes

Always a pleasure to see him on GT World finals, always a regular driver, I rarely saw him provoke accidents.
With time, he made his way through the field to reach the grail.

 

[Nakano219]

I do have to start wondering how long the GTWS has left as a going concern.

The well-known drivers starting to not compete, half their sponsors pulling out, the sector of the car roster it uses not getting much attention, hosting costs only going up. I don't know GTWS viewership numbers particularly, but every article I've read about racing esports in general has been very negative about how many views events draw.

Just kind of feels like things might be reaching a natural end.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Understandable, without any prize money, you can't live on fame, trophies or gifts alone.

And without anybody watching the events they cannot pay prize money. Essentially the eSports make no sense for the players or Polyphony.

 

[SPDN Stefano]

Wanting to "go pro" in Gran Turismo seems kinda unrealistic to me right now. Assuming they get their travel expenses paid, I would just be happy with that if I was competing in this. Just treat it like a hobby with some bonuses.

Having said that, CoD and League of Legends players are highly paid celebrities so maybe one day sim racing might reach that level. If I was PD I would keep plugging away at it. I do find it entertaining to watch.

 

[MIE1992]

I can’t say I blame Lopez, what with this year’s format of all but one round counting. I felt like previous years were vastly superior, where only the best half of them counted. If there are no truly interesting rounds in store for us this spring, I very well may not bother myself, even as a GT2 driver!

 

[snc]

I do have to start wondering how long the GTWS has left as a going concern.

The well-known drivers starting to not compete, half their sponsors pulling out, the sector of the car roster it uses not getting much attention, hosting costs only going up. I don't know GTWS viewership numbers particularly, but every article I've read about racing esports in general has been very negative about how many views events draw.

Just kind of feels like things might be reaching a natural end.

But also truth is GT (at least in Europe) is still very competitive. Older drivers end career/getting slower, younger drivers arrive/getting faster.

 

[Famine]

Wanting to "go pro" in Gran Turismo seems kinda unrealistic to me right now. Assuming they get their travel expenses paid, I would just be happy with that if I was competing in this. Just treat it like a hobby with some bonuses.

Having said that, CoD and League of Legends players are highly paid celebrities so maybe one day sim racing might reach that level. If I was PD I would keep plugging away at it. I do find it entertaining to watch.

But... there are pro drivers in sim racing. I covered it, briefly, in the article.

They don't quite reach the levels of DOTA players, but other series pay enough even for getting into them that you absolutely can be a pro sim racer. I mention Rennsport's ESL-backed prizes and F1 Esports, but PESC, eNASCAR, V10 R-League, (formerly Fanatec) GT World Challenge/ICGT, Formula E, Racing Unleashed Pro, VCO... virtually any organised series in iRacing, AC, ACC, RF2 gives out money to participants/finalists with increasing rewards for those who finish higher up. Guys like Benecke, Rietveld, Job, Rogers, Opmeer, Blakeley, Leahy, Warren, Zalenski, Kirwan, Jajovski, DeJong, and waaaay too many others for me to even rip off the top of my head do sim racing for a living.

There's more than a few better-known GT7 names now doing other esports precisely because they do get paid for it. Coque Lopez has made money in other sim racing series, Cody Latkovski I last saw doing WTCC I think, Manuel Rodriguez does a few GTWC Europe events, I've seen the HK guys like Yat Lam Law doing ICGT (for the hilariously named Wakos Fliptable team), and so on.

If you want to be a pro GT7 player, you can't; you don't get paid for doing it and you can't promote your team/sponsors on-screen as the shirt, shoes, hats, and gloves (although Kylian wasn't wearing standard gloves in 2024...) are all standard.

It's almost unique in this regard - and it's not like it's a niche thing; GTWS gets pretty decent viewership compared to most of those series that pay their talent.

 

[ZedNinetySix]

Understandable, without any prize money, you can't live on fame, trophies or gifts alone.

This is the exact reason I chose not to go down this path. I saw it very early-on back in early GTSport days, it just made no practical sense to me. Real racing made more sense to me despite the high cost and less exposure, real experience is worth a lot on your CV.

Also, everyone initially assumed GTWS woupd be similar to GT Academy which had a real end-goal. But GTWS has no end-goal, it's just more of the same, and I don't want to be doing more of the same of playing the same game over and over, that is not real progression, and ultimately leads nowhere.

 

[Tidgney]

I do believe the Finalists do get paid something now, I heard 500 euros a year ago? But don't quote me on that (Not sure how open that is either). Some of the guys back in the day (How old do I sound) got paid by their teams if they made an event (Thrustmaster as an example), some others got paid if they made the podium but that was strictly from the teams (Williams esport as an example). When I was competing I got 2 TGT's over the course of competing but I enjoyed the trips away and always extended the trips where I wanted to experience the culture/environment. Australia was an extra 7 days I think I did (Actually went to New Zealand), Japan was an extra 5 etc. That's one of the main reasons I competed I essentially got to travel the world in a unique fashion. I must admit I always found it insane how much some of the players were playing for benefit vs reward. But that is very specific to each region, and what people want to accomplish in life or get out of it.

I stopped because I just found it way to RNG, you've got to get lucky with lobbies, the right points at the right time (It's still not a progression system!). I'd struggle to qualify now more than ever anyway but I can see why Coque would stop at this point as it's going be ridiculously hard this year and to get the right luck at the right time (He's a very good driver but every single driver will need luck this year to qualify).

With Coque though I always had good races with him fair play for the amount he's achieved in Gran Turismo.

 

[Famine]

I do believe the Finalists do get paid something now, I heard 500 euros a year ago? But don't quote me on that (Not sure how open that is either).

I've heard something similar about a per-event stipend but, as you note, not exactly confirmed and not enough to make a living out of it

 

[GTSportster]

There’s no money in it so why keep going? Street Fighter 6 just had a 2 million dollar championship. 1st got a mill. Sony can’t put up the money but capcom can? Ok buddy.

 

[Def-Infinity]

There’s no money in it so why keep going? Street Fighter 6 just had a 2 million dollar championship. 1st got a mill. Sony can’t put up the money but capcom can? Ok buddy.

You need more than money to have a sustainable esports scene.

 

[tankuroded]

There’s no money in it so why keep going? Street Fighter 6 just had a 2 million dollar championship. 1st got a mill. Sony can’t put up the money but capcom can? Ok buddy.

It's the Japanese gambling law. Without a Japanese (JeSU) esports license (I don't think PD applied for one), esports competitions may not give prize more than 100,000 yen ($900) - coincidentally, the fixed $500 purse for participating in live events seem to fall within the limit.

This is also why some Japanese esports events give non-cash prizes (aside from FIAGTC/GTWS's own watch/wheel/camera kit prizes, remember that Evo Japan 2020 controller prize that was promptly accidentally dropped?).

 

[ZEE]

It seems fairly understandable from Coque's pov, but he is a really good driver in the game and competitively a good winner. I have not dobut he will be enjoying managing the TC Esports team of Belgium and Real Madrid and potentially we could see him do some real world racing as he is very young still.

I still find it harsh that there is no remunaration for these events beside travel and accomadation (which is still great). Sony and PD are pretty well funded and could push the stakes to incentivise a one-off prize money competition for the GTWS series. It makes you wonder about the earlier article that this site covered where they said 2025 GTWS events was gonna bigger and better, well judging by this recent media, it seems that is not the case.

Alot of US fat cats can pony up more money for other Esport racing games as Famine highlighted. Just a shame despite strong viewership, GT7/SONY has no prize apart from trophys and gifts, or a potential door into motorsport which itself is a very high end industry of motorsport to enter.

I'm curious how Igor got into the SUPERGT champoinship? Did he get sponspered by a company post his wins at GTWS?

I still think it wud be fun to compete on stage in one of these events in the near future, they look cool regardless!

 

[i386]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Four-Time World Champion Coque Lopez Steps Back from Gran Turismo World Series​

The 2025 Gran Turismo World Series may be just around the corner, but it’s going to have to do without one of its most-decorated drivers as four-time champion Coque Lopez has announced he will no longer take part...

That's what pd gets for not releasing and using the unimog earlier in these tournaments 🧐

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Just a shame despite strong viewership,

Is the viewership strong? It looks like the live finals get similar numbers to what the top streamers get for playing daily races for a couple of hours on any evening, and they're not having to bribe the casual players in with free cars and in-game cash pay-outs.

Combine that with what I assume is the massive expense of holding these events and I struggle to see how they're sustainable without a load of cash being pumped in from Sony.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

No coincidence he announced this after seeing a Renault Kangoo is coming.
😉
I wish him all the best as he has always been a top driver and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Best of luck Coque.

 

[imChris]

You need more than money to have a sustainable esports scene.

To be honest I don't think there's such a thing as a sustainable esports scene (from a purely financial perspective). If there is one I haven't seen it

 

[BrunusCL82]

Audiences make money, right? Audiences are those who can pay good prizes to competitors, right?

In this sense, if PD wants to attract more attention from the public, it has to create championships that offer new things.

I assume that the public doesn't want to basically just watch the same circuits, the same cars, from almost how old? Five years? Isn't that what fighting games do by sporadically bringing in new characters? Furthermore, since it is a reality simulator, unlike fighting games and LoL, I think that GTWS should follow the trends of Motorsport to attract fans of this sport.

I believe that if PD brought the classic circuits of the franchise, the famous circuits of the world, as well as LMDh and LMH, GT500 and modern racing cars, the championship would have much more commercial appeal.

And, of course, it is essential to professionalize the competitors, if Sony intends to transform GTWS into an Evo or something like that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I believe that if PD brought the classic circuits of the franchise, the famous circuits of the world, as well as LMDh and LMH, GT500 and modern racing cars, the championship would have much more commercial appeal.

It'd still be boring as **** to watch people playing a game that I could either be playing myself, or watching actual real world racing which will always be better. I watch a ton of motorsport, I've spent a lot of money to do so, I've got thousands of hours in GT7 and every game in the franchise. I should be prime target audience but I do not give one single toss about any of it - there is just no appeal at all.

I don't know GTWS viewership numbers particularly,

It would appear Update trailers do much better numbers on YouTube than GTWS. I think that says everything.

 

[snc]

It'd still be boring as **** to watch people playing a game that I could either be playing myself, or watching actual real world racing which will always be better. I watch a ton of motorsport, I've spent a lot of money to do so, I've got thousands of hours in GT7 and every game in the franchise. I should be prime target audience but I do not give one single toss about any of it - there is just no appeal at all.

Imo most of gtws finals were great and usually more interesting than typical f1 weekend but viewing numbers are not there unfortunately. Things I would change is reduce gimmicky slip stream strength and in rain races adavantage of drivers in back.

 

[peniu]

It'd still be boring as **** to watch people playing a game that I could either be playing myself

While I understand the sentiment, it seems that a lot of people watch more games than play themselves - source.

 

[GTSportster]

It's the Japanese gambling law. Without a Japanese (JeSU) esports license (I don't think PD applied for one), esports competitions may not give prize more than 100,000 yen ($900) - coincidentally, the fixed $500 purse for participating in live events seem to fall within the limit.

This is also why some Japanese esports events give non-cash prizes (aside from FIAGTC/GTWS's own watch/wheel/camera kit prizes, remember that Evo Japan 2020 controller prize that was promptly accidentally dropped?).

Capcom cup was held in Japan. PD needs to apply for that license. That’s not an excuse.

 

[tankuroded]

I do have to start wondering how long the GTWS has left as a going concern.

The well-known drivers starting to not compete, half their sponsors pulling out, the sector of the car roster it uses not getting much attention, hosting costs only going up. I don't know GTWS viewership numbers particularly, but every article I've read about racing esports in general has been very negative about how many views events draw.

Just kind of feels like things might be reaching a natural end.

@Dibs used to keep track of them in GTWS live event threads. I do remember last year's GTWS Nations Finals viewership numbers may be propped up by Korone from Hololive restreaming the event (though I still suspect it's because of people staying for the vtuber rather than the show given the nature of these things).

It would appear Update trailers do much better numbers on YouTube than GTWS. I think that says everything.

This is why PD announced the July 2024 update during GTWS Montreal, in an attempt to bolster the numbers.

 

[Nakano219]

or watching actual real world racing which will always be better.

It's this, this is the key point.

All the properly successful esports are video games that have no real-world equivalent entertainment product to compete against - MOBAs, flashy fighting games, shooters.

I'd be willing to bet most esports based on real-world sports all had the same trajectory of looking promising in 2020-21 when the real world events weren't being held, then they drop off as the pandemic ends and people start preferring the full-fat versions again.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I'd be willing to bet most esports based on real-world sports all had the same trajectory of looking promising in 2020-21 when the real world events weren't being held, then they drop off as the pandemic ends and people start preferring the full-fat versions again.

💯 The absolute highlight of Covid eSports was the NASCAR series and that was because it had all the recognisable names and there was no real world competition, as soon as they could race for real again the interest was killed overnight. The one with the real drivers in 2020 got 1.3 million viewers, the regular eSports championship finale last year got 17,000 (whilst somehow offering a $500k prize pool). That is the highest profile example but I bet it is the same everywhere.

 

[Nebuc72]

💯 The absolute highlight of Covid eSports was the NASCAR series and that was because it had all the recognisable names and there was no real world competition, as soon as they could race for real again the interest was killed overnight. The one with the real drivers in 2020 got 1.3 million viewers, the regular eSports championship finale last year got 17,000 (whilst somehow offering a $500k prize pool). That is the highest profile example but I bet it is the same everywhere.

F1 is surely up there, I swear they had it broadcast on Sky with a bunch of real world drivers doing it. I distinctly remember watching with my dad, seeing Johnny Herbert go from last to first at Bahrain because he just blew through Turn 1 as soon as the race started.

 

[MatskiMonk]

more interesting than typical f1 weekend

That might just be a sad reflection on F1 though!

it seems that a lot of people watch more games than play themselves

It's an interesting stat but I think it asks more questions than it answers. Like, I don't disagree with it, it probably applies to me too! But I know in my case, that time spent watching things is not a replacement for game time, it's a replacement for watching other things. The ease by which time can be allocated to watching things is also somewhat different to time that can be spent gaming - perhaps even moreso when gaming 'properly' includes peripherals like wheels and sim rigs - like, at 11pm tonight when I get back from the pub quiz, I'm not going to switch on the PS5, get behind the T-GT and spend an hour playing GT7, but I might well chuck on Real Civil Engineer playing Storage Hunter Simulator on YouTube. Some people might be watching the content on the bus, or on the toilet, or whilst in bed - they're not playing GT in any of those scenarios. There's also cost. I suppose some people watch games instead of play them, because they can't afford the game or the hardware.

I suppose this then begs the question, why wouldn't I be watching GT content like the GTWS content, given that I do spend quite a lot of time watching gaming videos? Perhaps it's simply down to the entertainment factor - really specific stuff like the channel hosts, the production, or simply the presenting style... for example I've got zero interest in Fortnite, but I signed up to Twitch to watch a guy I follow for non-gaming related reasons play it, because I support his channel.... there must be a reason why some YouTubers get more views than the official channels for the games they play.

But this then comes onto @Nakano219s point. Ultimately if all the GTWS does is simulate real motorsport, it's unlikely to be better than the real thing - which is why I really question the suggestion that doubling down on replicating real-world motorsport is a good idea. I'm already watching that, and it's better. It's real.

I think it also begs the question, what's in it for the studios? It's great marketing I'm sure.... but then, why do the developers, publishers, studios etc have to waste their time and money when there's independent channels pulling down better numbers publicising the game for little more the cost of early access for one person?

I think my point is, that it seems like GTWS should be perfect for a GT and Motorsport fan like myself, but for some reason it isn't, and when I think about it, as intuitive as it might seem, way too many small things don't actually line up for me.