Furi's Le Mans Bible: Back for 2013, Dodge Vipers!!!

[Furinkazen]

First let me say that this is a great thread. Thanks a lot for this, because this was just stuff that I couldn't find detailed info on when I was looking for my thread.

I think it should be mentioned that while the power numbers for the two diesel cars are accurate, the way that they get them is rather far fetched. Specifically, both of them rev way too high. I was made aware that in reality both of them were restricted to 5500 RPM (though I'm highly doubtful they could have revved much higher anyway), but in GT5 they rev (and make considerable power) all the way to 7000 RPM.

Perhaps the RPM band IRL was run at a lower level? I believe PD's LM power figures correspond to the potential level that the engines could run at, as I explained with the Audi R8, the engines where restricted a little because obviously the higher revs and hp would put more stress on the engine.

It's a similar situation to the Group C cars, which may have "only" had around 600-700hp but ould get 1000+ hp for qualifying, as the engine didn't need to last as long. Similar case with RPM levels.

 

[Tornado]

I don't really think Audi or Peugeot could have made the engines rev that high. Super high performance racing diesels are still diesels at the end of the day.


I think it is more like the NA cars (XJR-9, Pesky C60 Judd and Hybride) that PD inflated the power numbers for, in the sense that it could be possible that if they were allowed to run wide open that they would produce that much power, but the way that PD actually went about giving them that much power is impossible.

 

[Furinkazen]

I don't really think Audi or Peugeot could have made the engines rev that high. Super high performance racing diesels are still diesels at the end of the day.


I think it is more like the NA cars (XJR-9, Pesky C60 Judd and Hybride) that PD inflated the power numbers for, in the sense that it could be possible that if they were allowed to run wide open that they would produce that much power, but the way that PD actually went about giving them that much power is impossible.

Also perhaps being newer cars they have more data to go on? What I don't get is like how inflated the Pescarolo-Peugeot from 2003 is...

OP update with brand new pics for all cars by the way.

 

[karl53]

wow, brilliant thread, I've learnt quite alot from this, mainly PDs mad power values.
Just 1 thing though, the Toyota GT-One was entered as an LM-GTP in '99, due to the ACO closing the GT1 supercar loophole.

Also, the Nissan R92CP was an evolution of the R90CP, which was Nissans in-house development of the R89C.

Don't mean to sound like a know it all, just wanted to help with the great work your doing

 

[Furinkazen]

wow, brilliant thread, I've learnt quite alot from this, mainly PDs mad power values.
Just 1 thing though, the Toyota GT-One was entered as an LM-GTP in '99, due to the ACO closing the GT1 supercar loophole.

Indeed but I didn't write that as it is the 1998 GT-One that features in GT5, the same would apply to the Mclaren I think.

Also, the Nissan R92CP was an evolution of the R90CP, which was Nissans in-house development of the R89C.

I thought that was the R91CK?

Also some further researched says that the R92CP / (which appears to be called the R91CP in some circles confusingly enough - was the R92CP merely a slightly upgraded R91CP? Help?) had "power-800~1200ps" which is approx 800 to 1200hp I think.

 

[karl53]

Indeed but I didn't write that as it is the 1998 GT-One that features in GT5.




I thought that was the R91CK?

Also some further researched says that the R92CP / (which appears to be called the R91CP in some circles confusingly enough - was the R92CP merely a slightly upgraded R91CP? Help?) had "power-800~1200ps" which is approx 800 to 1200hp I think.

mmm, I could have sworn it was the '99 Toyota in the game, meh.

Anyway, After the R89C, Nissan made a slightly upgraded one, the R90CK (that got pole at Le Mans 1990), they also made a more high-downforce model, the R90CP, which raced in japan. When the FIA banned turbo engines in group C for '91, Nissan pulled out of the WSPC, focusing instead on developing the CP series for the JSPC (which ran the turbo engines until the series folded after '92).

Yeah I'm a bit of a Nissan nerd

 

[Furinkazen]

mmm, I could have sworn it was the '99 Toyota in the game, meh.

Anyway, After the R89C, Nissan made a slightly upgraded one, the R90CK (that got pole at Le Mans 1990), they also made a more high-downforce model, the R90CP, which raced in japan. When the FIA banned turbo engines in group C for '91, Nissan pulled out of the WSPC, focusing instead on developing the CP series for the JSPC (which ran the turbo engines until the series folded after '92).

Yeah I'm a bit of a Nissan nerd

👍 Yep from my number one source for this, Ultimatecarpage.com:

Despite scoring several podium finishes, the Japanese company decided not to return in 1991. The existing R89s and R90s continued to be campaigned in the All Japanese Sports Prototype Championship the following years but with surprisingly little success. They also appeared in the Daytona 24 Hours in slightly modified form. The cars were regularly upgraded and accordingly were renamed R91 and R92 but they were all old chassis. An exception could be the final R90 chassis that was built up from new as a R91CP and campaigned in FromA livery in Japan.

~Could that be saying then the R91 and R92CP's are just merely modified R90's then?~

In Japan a new Group C car was developed to meet the revised 3.5 litre / 750 kg regulations but it appeared only once in a Japanese event.

~^What would this be then?~

 

[karl53]

Yeah the 90/91/92 are pretty much the same.

The 3.5 l car is the N35, which was made for Nissans return to the WSPC, but then everyone ran out money and Nissan cancelled the project. Nismo raced a variant of it (NP35) at Fuji (i think), where it was about 5 seconds slower than the R92s.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yeah the 90/91/92 are pretty much the same.

The 3.5 l car is the N35, which was made for Nissans return to the WSPC, but then everyone ran out money and Nissan cancelled the project. Nismo raced a variant of it (NP35) at Fuji (i think), where it was about 5 seconds slower than the R92s.

In Japanese but still some great looks at the car.

And off topic but here is the N35, just listen to that V12

 

[karl53]

Nice videos, shame the N35 never got to Le Mans, it looks and sounds epic.

 

[Tornado]

The 1998 TS020s were these ones:

The one in the game is the 1999 model. Plus, 1998 was the year that Porsche basically walked the race with a 1-2 by several laps.

 

[Furinkazen]

The 1998 TS020s were these ones:

The one in the game is the 1999 model. Plus, 1998 was the year that Porsche basically walked the race with a 1-2 by several laps.

Ahh my bad! Will update then! Of course,l should remember as the GT-One's where running just behind a certain Mercedes which flew off.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Furi, what is your source for the 905's hp? That 650 looks awfully low compared to the commonly cited 725-750 hp I've seen in the past.

Yeah the 90/91/92 are pretty much the same.

The 3.5 l car is the N35, which was made for Nissans return to the WSPC, but then everyone ran out money and Nissan cancelled the project. Nismo raced a variant of it (NP35) at Fuji (i think), where it was about 5 seconds slower than the R92s.

In qualifying. But in the race it was only a few seconds off the pace of the 92CP. The car needed more development, which it unfortunately never got.

 

[Furinkazen]

Furi, what is your source for the 905's hp? That 650 looks awfully low compared to the commonly cited 725-750 hp I've seen in the past.In qualifying. But in the race it was only a few seconds off the pace of the 92CP. The car needed more development, which it unfortunately never got.

Here.

 

[Furinkazen]

Edited the GT-One and added the Corvette C5R.

 

[Furinkazen]

Interest is down 👎 , looking at a couple more GT Cars for next update.

 

[Diogo]

I asked you about the weight distribution on this cars , the ones that need ballast to match real weight.

 

[Furinkazen]

I asked you about the weight distribution on this cars , the ones that need ballast to match real weight.

I have not found anything yet sorry. But I do plan to gradually expand on this and the car descriptions.

 

[Diogo]

Then just to make a excuse , thats what he are waiting for

 

[brooksy22]

We don't know why many of the Le Mans cars are overpowered, but MANY of the Le Mans cars are overpowered....

I've got a theory. In reality, a Group C car and a modern LMP car around any given race track will set extremely similar times. However the way in which they set the times will be different. A group C car would comprehensively out-accelerate a LMP car thanks to roughly 300bhp more. By contrast, a LMP car would out-brake and out-corner a Group C car thanks to better brakes and more grip.

The problem lies in the fact that GT5 races are not time trials. Group C cars and LMPs compete against each other in races like 'Like the Wind'. LMP cars cannot just drive through the group C cars under brakes and through corners as if they are ghosts. The only way for PD to make the cars go at the same speed is for them to accelerate, brake and corner the same. Look next time you do B-spec mode in 'Like the Wind'. You will find that the Courage Peugeot goes as fast on the straights as a Nissan R92CP! Ridiculous.

If the LMP cars would have their real power outputs then they'd get totally destroyed by the group C cars, which I don't think is what they want us to see. The reason the LMP cars are overpowered is because the A.I cars cannot drive through each other. Not to mention they are rubbish at overtaking.

 

[Samus]

Yes and the solution is quite simple, PD need to get out of the habit of putting unmatched cars in reality against each other in races. Group C shouldn't be racing modern LMP for the reasons you covered.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

The Picture of the Vertigo is gone.

 

[Diogo]

So Fury when are you going to update this again ?

 

[Furinkazen]

Not dead. Just been pretty pre-occupied with things lately.

 

[Raggi Boy]

ive seen these cars with the real life hp when they are in need of an oil change + maybe an engine rebuild, does this mean anything?

 

[Furinkazen]

ive seen these cars with the real life hp when they are in need of an oil change + maybe an engine rebuild, does this mean anything?

Not really. They do show the correct stats in the dealership however. I am taking requests for the next update, Panoz will be 1...

 

[Furinkazen]

Mazda 787B and Panoz Esperante GTR1 added!

 

[Ryk]

Good stuff. Lister Storm.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

It's about time bud
787B is welcome here:tup:

 

[Tornado]

Maybe PD took the specs for the Panoz from Sparky:

Instead of the regular GTR-1 on accident? That had about that much power (and while I don't think it was that much heavier than the regular GTR-1, it was at least 150kg+). There were also two Esperante GTR-1 road cars (one for 1997 regulations, one for 1998 regulations), so maybe PD took the specs from them.




Either way the one in the game is wrong, so don't worry about that.