Furi's Le Mans Bible: Back for 2013, Dodge Vipers!!!

[Furinkazen]

Interesting comments on this forum, sadly the pictures are disabled.

Panoz Esperante GTR, the homologation special for the Panoz GTR-1 race car in the FIA-GT series back in 1997. Only 2 were ever made. One was used for crash testing (the blue/yellow one), and the other still resides with the Panoz family (the chamelion blue one).

It has a 5.2 liter V8 (compared with a 6.0 in the race car). Other than that's it's basically the GTR-1 race car with an interior and missing the rear wing. No performance specs were ever released since the car was built only to homologate the race car. They didn't see any reason to do the testing. It is a fully functioning, and street legal car though. David Price drove it all the way from his race shops in the UK all the way to LeMans in 1997, and did so with no hiccups.

Due to the bit in bold, with the International GT1 requirements of the time only needing one road car to homologate the vehicle for competition, it can be presumed this road version talked about is what spawned the GT5 car, the 1998 GTR-1?

 

[Furinkazen]

Toyota 88C-V ~NEW~
Category - C1

A real fan favourite of the GT community, the 88C-V was raced in the All Japan Sports Prototype Championship and World Sports Prototype Championship alongside the 24 hours of Le Mans. The C-V was the same car as the 88C, but accomodated an R32V engine which was a V8 instead of the 88C's inline 4 unit.
The #36 featured in GT5 was 12th place in the Le Mans 24 Hours of 1988.

GT5 Spec - 936hp / 850kg
Real Spec - 800hp / ???kg
(Bizarrely, for such a popular car in the virtual world, there is little known of the real life specs. My engine specs come from this which appears to be reference of a book about Toyota engines..) Weight I do not know about but 850 - 900kg would appear to make sense I guess.

 

[hsh]

Great thread, Furi.

Was seaching the web for Mazda's 787b Le Mans specs and according to Ultimatecarpage.com the cars race specs differs a bit from what's generally believed.

According to this article Oreca/Mazdaspeed limited engine performance to 650 bhp @ 8.500 rpm in order to optimise fuel efficiency.

Whether this is true or not, I couldn't tell but interesting nevertheless.

 

[Furinkazen]

This will receive some christmas cheer. Been studying some more. Keep tuned.

 

[BLJK Ice]

I just read them all and noticed that i have the rare red r8 lol i didnt realize it until now anyway im waiting for it to be complete to red more 👍

 

[sumbrownkid]

I've got a theory. In reality, a Group C car and a modern LMP car around any given race track will set extremely similar times. However the way in which they set the times will be different. A group C car would comprehensively out-accelerate a LMP car thanks to roughly 300bhp more. By contrast, a LMP car would out-brake and out-corner a Group C car thanks to better brakes and more grip.

The problem lies in the fact that GT5 races are not time trials. Group C cars and LMPs compete against each other in races like 'Like the Wind'. LMP cars cannot just drive through the group C cars under brakes and through corners as if they are ghosts. The only way for PD to make the cars go at the same speed is for them to accelerate, brake and corner the same. Look next time you do B-spec mode in 'Like the Wind'. You will find that the Courage Peugeot goes as fast on the straights as a Nissan R92CP! Ridiculous.

If the LMP cars would have their real power outputs then they'd get totally destroyed by the group C cars, which I don't think is what they want us to see. The reason the LMP cars are overpowered is because the A.I cars cannot drive through each other. Not to mention they are rubbish at overtaking.

I doubt an Audi R8 with that 3.6L twin turbocharged engine would be any slower down the straights and accelerating than a comparable Group C machine.

Nor would the Peugeot 908s, and the Toyota GT-Ones would be left in the dust, if they were allowed to breath freely instead of through a narrow tube.

LMPs have to breath through restrictors, whereas the Groups Cs didn't have to, hence the relatively low drag aero designs of the day.

In fact, with the lap records of recent years, I'd say that Group C machines would not keep up with the LMP machines of today.

 

[freshseth83]

And you'd be wrong. With the historic races you see group c cars run at LeMans before the actual race. To my knowledge the Sauber Mercedes was only a couple seconds off pace from the R18s and Toyota TS030 this past LM24.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Tell that to Peugeot in 2008 then.

That Sauber probably had the benefit of modern rubber and lighter weight. Other than that, it still was slower was it not?

In 1991 it's qualifying time was 3:31. Fastest race lap was 3:35

In 2008 the quali time was 3:18, with fastest race lap was 3:19

Again, I have a hard time believing today's cars are any slower, especially when they don't have to breath through restrictors.

 

[Furinkazen]

Tell that to Peugeot in 2008 then.

After then the cars where pegged back significantly.

 

[sumbrownkid]

After then the cars where pegged back significantly.

They were with the engine size restrictions, but really they only managed to slow them down by a couple of seconds at most. However, with the new regulations coming to affect soon, the speeds should probably jump back up.

The last times were around the 3:25 mark in 2012, which was only 6 seconds away despite only around 100-150 hp down compared to the 2010 racers.

 

[Furinkazen]

Pole Times:

2008: 3:18.5 (Peugeot)
2009: 3:22.8 (Peugeot)
2010: 3:19.7 (Peugeot)
2011: 3:25.7 (Audi)
2012: 3:23.7 (Audi)

 

[sumbrownkid]

Amazing times considering the power the Audi's have to deal with, and with the downforce specific set-ups they prefer over low drag.

In the straight line, I'll give Group Cs the edge, but in everything else I'll give it to the modern LMP.

 

[Furinkazen]

Amazing times considering the power the Audi's have to deal with, and with the downforce specific set-ups they prefer over low drag.

Footage of the cars through the Porsche Curves, so committed, is incredible to watch. Also lets not forget the fins the prototypes have had since 2011. On topic... This is what I plan on doing next - a update on GT cars featuring the Jagaur XJ220LM among a couple others.

 

[Gerarghini]

Awesome, is this thread still being updated?

 

[ElementRacer]

I love the minolta. before i found put i could get the x1 i used the 88cv for every enduro. and once you got far away enpugh. you could even pull away at indi

 

[Raggi Boy]

Aren't these power values for gt5 for after break-in and engine rebuild, I seem to remember that all the cars with 500 - 600 in real life, have that power in gt5 when in need of repair (break in with no fixing) like from the ucd, which is odd

 

[sumbrownkid]

No that's the listed power that was "officially" given by the manufacturers or the actual power produced at race trim. The actual car itself produces much more than what's stated in the game's dealer.

Personally I think the high numbers stem from either actually getting the true horsepower unrestricted directly from the owners of these cars, or PD is just throwing darts at a board with HP numbers on them.

 

[Furinkazen]

Renewed interest means this is getting an update soon 👍

 

[Tornado]

Aren't these power values for gt5 for after break-in and engine rebuild, I seem to remember that all the cars with 500 - 600 in real life, have that power in gt5 when in need of repair (break in with no fixing) like from the ucd, which is odd

Some of the cars have the proper horsepower numbers before you buy them when looking at their stats in the UCD or NCD, but as soon as you buy them they shoot way up to around the numbers that they have listed in the OP.

 

[Furinkazen]

Dodge Viper GTS-R
Category - GTS

Iconic american muscle that is the Dodge Viper returns to Le Mans this year, so it's fitting I add this as update. Built to GTS class regulations, the Viper and Corvette where major rivals all across the US and Europe. Chassis C21 was built in 1999 and in 2000 competing as car #91 won the Daytona 24 Hours. Chassis C31 (#51) competed at Le Mans in 2000 and was one of the final Team cars produced for ORECA.

GT5 Spec - 617hp / 1150kg
Real Spec - 620hp / 1150kg
(PD Underpower a car?! Just knock me out, i'm dreaming...)

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Needs more feedback.

 

[Hyped]

GT5 Spec - 617hp / 1150kg
Real Spec - 620hp / 1150kg
(PD Underpower a car?! Just knock me out, i'm dreaming...)

Doesn't the #91 have more power, or did you average it out?

 

[GTPorsche]

Doesn't the #91 have more power, or did you average it out?

No, both cars were the same class, so they were the same spec.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

No, both cars were the same class, so they were the same spec.

Should be the same spec... Knowing PD though

 

[Hyped]

I'm talking in game, not in real life.

 

[Furinkazen]

The Vipers are the same HP in game, only difference is one is a Level 21, and another Level 22. For no apparent reason.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

The #91 is a lot faster. I think it's to do with gearing? In Wardez's CALM everyone used the #91 for that reason.

 

[Furinkazen]

The #91 is a lot faster. I think it's to do with gearing? In Wardez's CALM everyone used the #91 for that reason.

Despite #91 being the Daytona car? I would have thought that the #51 should have been quicker having La Sarthe gearing.

 

[Ryk]

Maybe the Dodge vs Chrysler stickers - some stickers just give more horsepower -

I've tried neither of these. I've got a third one of these with a different name of the car to include the car number in your garage.

91 is a prime number - They always win
51 is a factor of 17 and 3 (Probably the worst of the prime numbers other than 23)

The more you look into cars for GT5 the more questions you get... How on earth they picked that Vertigo seems strange.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Despite #91 being the Daytona car? I would have thought that the #51 should have been quicker having La Sarthe gearing.

The gearing for Daytona would be much shorter, that gives you the acceleration. The gearing for La Sarthe would be taller giving you more top end speed.