Further proof that we're already playing the next version of GT

[Zardoz]

...I'm sure all this speculating MUST somehow speed the development up!
cough......BS.....cough

Uh, did somebody say that it would? I don't recall seeing that.

 

[cobragt]

GTV is to the ps3 as GT2000 was to the ps2. Both demos ran on the graphics engine of the last gt game. Expect gt5 to look out of this world. The jump from GT2000 to GT3 was big! I can only imagine how big the jumpe from gtv to gt5 will be.

 

[JohnBM01]

Yeah, CobraGT. I probably want to say that Gran Turismo 2000 didn't really look like GT2. PD probably spent more time with GT2000 than what I know of Vision Gran Turismo. Then too, why would a game with a title like "Vision Gran Turismo" would be a fully legitimate sequel to Gran Turismo 4?

The assumption that we're already playing the next Gran Turismo game is that there's no real evolution from GT4 to GT5. People will probably say that if the AI seems the same no matter what, and there's no car damage (rumored to change), and that some gamers don't get the bodykits they want... in other words, "GT5" will be GT4 with extremely minimal differences. Why would PD want to do this, anyways? Polyphony Digital isn't Koei, the game company that's been known for rehashing old games to make new sequels like the "Dynasty Warriors" series, so why would PD do such a thing? Very rarely do I ever say "it's just feels the same." When I played the MegaMan series a lot, sure. The same jump and shoot is there, but each game, the experience is different. But the important thing is that it doesn't get old, or at least to me.

If my view if right that people are going to think the next GT is only going to be shinier, prettier, and tougher, but with the same AI and driving physics, then OF COURSE you'll feel like we've been here before. Maybe I'm different, but I like giving things a chance. I'm sorry if I don't have the mentality the average hardcore gamer would have, but I agree with Mr. CobraGT. The next OFFICIAL GT should be insane. We'll just wait 2, 3, 5, how many ever years it takes, but if GT4 was any indication, the next GT's time in making the game should be worth it.

 

[2004TSX]

When you think about it, GT4 needed to be carefully thought out or it may not have fit on to a disk, right? You need many hours of planning and deleting things that will take up too much space and puting into consideration things that will be too much for the PS2 to handle. So, in other words, because of the Blu-Ray disc for PS3 and the extreme power it has, they need less descision making and more programming. They could actually realease GT5 quicker than we had expected!

 

[Dave A]

GT4 took up just over half the disk, it didn't come close to filling it.

 

[2004TSX]

GT4 took up just over half the disk, it didn't come close to filling it.

.........so. .........

 

[Dave A]

In you're last post you said "When you think about it, GT4 needed to be carefully thought out or it may not have fit on to a disk, right? You need many hours of planning and deleting things that will take up too much space". No it isn't right, disk space was not an issue for GT4, they didn't have to plan to delete anything because of disk space, they didn't leave anything out because of disk space, they had around 4 gigs of the disk left unused.

 

[Evolution.]

"A new GT on the way", and the pit crews will have the GT4 logo on them? That logo seems like a heck of a clue as to PD's intent. Remember, Vision GT was featured along with the trumpeting of the PS3. It was not isolated from the promotion of the new machine.

Yes, the real GT5 will have damage. The opened-up version of GT4 won't.

Another clue: All the bugs GT4 has. Maybe because, once again, we're running a partially-disabled version of it.

Have you ever thought they just hadn't modeled a new pit crew uniform yet?

No.

But anyways.

You people are speculating all of this stuff,and pretty much none of you have any clear information on what VGT will be like.

Maybe the video was just a preview.Hoe could they be done with VGT yet?

Maybe VGT is the last of the GT series so they named it VGT?

Maybe VGT Is a "Vision" of what GT5 will be.

None of you know anything about GT5 or VGT except about 45 seconds of video footage that for all we know could be just a big preview,or could be the last version of the GT series.

 

[2004TSX]

Good point. I forgot about that they only used half the disc. I'm wrong. I was sort of rambling at the time...

 

[Dave A]

Fair enough, I do that regularly .

 

[2004TSX]

Fair enough, I do that regularly .

2004TSX bows to live4speed

lol

 

[speedsniper2005]

I want PS3 and GT5 already the mapping is awesome and so much more in the game W00T! 👍

 

[Kent]

Maybe VGT Is a "Vision" of what GT5 will be.

Engrish for "A vision of GT."
That's my first thought on the issue and I wouldn't be suprised if many others throughout this thread have been saying the same thing.

Just guessing here

When game developers work they start with computers and eventually put the games into playstation format.

If that is the case...

PD brought gt4 up to a ps3 spec demo.

Just a demo.
Still a great vision of things to come.

GT 5 on the other hand, I have no clue what that will be like.

 

[Chris Criswell]

Why would you have to zoom in on the picture?

You could tell it was GT4 by watching a few seconds of a video, and I cold read Gran Turismo 4 on their uniforms while taking a quick glance at the video.

Unless you have bad eyesight

 

[McLaren]

I really think that GT4 s just GT3.5. It's just a revamped version of 3 that uses the PS2's power to its max. GT5 will be spectacular no doubt. I mean look what they've been able to do with 4.7gb of space. Immagine what can be accomplished with roughly 10 & 1/2 times the space and 35 times the processing power. The real problem in the graphics is that reflections are not accurate. There needs to be more contrast of white on the car, but I digress. I'm sure that whatever and whenever GT5 comes out it will be better visually than we are speculating. PD has yet to dissapoint me.

Add more cars and tracks and still give us some stupid ass AI?

 

[Zardoz]

*sighs*

Man, some of these posts...

Was my original post that murky and difficult to understand, or did a lot of peeps really not read the last paragraph?

I...am...not...talking...about...Gran Turismo 5. "Vision GT" has nothing to do with GT5, obviously. If anything, its a sneak peek at "GT4 For The PS3".

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of clues and indicators that we might get "all" of GT4 when the PS3 is launched. We all know GT5 is a long ways off, but the PS3 isn't, and it seems like we just might get the full-grown version of GT4, with lots of cars on the track and the online component (which they couldn't get to work on the PS2) implemented at last, when we buy that expensive new console.

 

[Jedi2016]

*sigh*

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "GT4 FOR PLAYSTATION 3". GET OFF IT. Vision GT will NEVER HAPPEN. THERE WILL NEVER BE SUCH A GAME. EVER.

All I can say is that if you're hoping against all hope that there will be another version of GT prior to GT5 in 2008 or whenever, you're setting yourself up for some MAJOR disappointment. If you want to continue living in your little fantasy world where there's leprechauns and elves and upgraded GT4's, you go right ahead.

 

[Zardoz]

*sigh*

...If you want to continue living in your little fantasy world where there's leprechauns and elves and upgraded GT4's, you go right ahead.

Okay, I will. It's pretty nice here, although the elves don't look anything like Liv Tyler...

 

[Jedi2016]

Pity. I'm rather fond of the Liv lookalikes on my end. You should see when they.... well, maybe later.

 

[JohnBM01]

So you want to play that game? Again, how can anyone be sure that GT4 is going to make it onto the PS3? If you think GT4 is going to be re-released on PS3, you'd might as well say that Final Fantasy 7 will be on the PS3, though clearly stating it is a TECH DEMO. If this is the case, no. I don't think that (prototypical name) GT4-2 will be released on the PS3. GT4 isn't GT2. Whereas GT2 lacked in execution and certain other areas, GT4 was about as complete of a GT as possible. PD worked within the limits to make this one shine. Almost half a year later, how do you think the public likes GT4? I don't hear of or read of anyone saying that GT4 is incomplete. So who is anyone else to say that GT4 needs a major update to... oh, be released on the PS3. I'm sorry, I don't think that's happening. Now, if Vision GT is more like what GT4 would have been like on a much more capable machine with some mild to moderate tuning. As I say, Vision GT is more like "this is an idea we're showing you all of what to [maybe] expect in Gran Turismo 5." How can anyone be sure that "GT4-2" will be a launch title? To me, it's a tech demo. I don't think we've even seen what the next GT will offer. Nothing in the way of dynamic weather changes, dynamic time changes, new tracks, more cars, more types of races, or anything like that. Unless PD seriously hopes to relaunch GT4 with more stuff to it, then I take my words back. But for now, who am I to say that GT4 will be re-released on the PS3 and made complete?

I don't dig. I've always stated that Vision GT is an idea of GT5, not a plan to re-release GT4 on a much more powerful console with more features. It's too early. If we don't get anything real big before February 2006, then I stand as saying that "GT4-2" from the Vision GT coverage is just that- a vision into the future of Gran Turismo... perhaps 5. Not "GT4-2." Not "Gran Turismo Vision." Not "GT5: Vision."

 

[Jedi2016]

Exactly, John.

Someone made a mention of GT2000, which was basically GT2 running on the PS2. The old tech demos we've seen show that pretty clearly. But that certainly wasn't what we got. What we got was better.

I think VGT was simply giving us a taste, like GT2000 did, mainly in the form of more cars on the track. MANY more cars on the track. But I think the graphical leap will be like the one from GT2 to GT3. GT5 is going to blow our socks off in realism. And it'll have pits full of people, and twenty or so cars on the track at a time. It will be glorious. And it will also be quite a while from now. Maybe 2007 if we're lucky. Probably 2008.

EDIT:

I found this nifty article on IGN just now.. "The Evolution of GT2000 to GT3" I've only skimmed through it, but it ought to give you a pretty good idea of what to expect with "The Evolution of Vision Gran Turismo to GT5".

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094409p1.html

 

[JohnBM01]

Isn't it nice when a two Texans share their views on a subject like this to the world? Anyhow, nice find, Jedi. I never really got a good look at GT2000. I don't want to sound like a "fanboy" of some sort, but I don't see how PD can make the next GT look much better than Gran Turismo 4. From that one picture of cars pitting at Twin Motegi's Super Speedway, I counted about 13 or 14 cars. I'd sure love a pack of 20. Only one racing game has acheived this with many cars on track with very little (if any) lag, TOCA Race Driver 2. Of course, I'm not expecting to see the number of cars in the 2000 Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona (which is about 73) to be shown in the next GT. I'm sure the usage of the GT4 engine will lead to cues in the next GT's capabilities.

The ONLY way you'll understand the stuff in this paragraph is if you have seen the link Jedi provided. If you look at the pictures from GT2000 and compare them to GT3, I could really see a lot in GT2's design capabilities as things kind of "evolve" graphically. I don't think a single PS1 game EVER had reflective mapping. All there was were chrome mapping. It is only a bitmap file that acts as a universal "reflection" of the environment around it. If you've played Ridge Racer Type 4, either PS1 Gran Turismo, and even Ridge Racer V, and paid attention to how things reflect on the car, they didn't match. But you look at GT3, and almost everything is reflected nicely. Tracks weren't severely detailed in GT2 or GT2000, but with Seattle Circuit in GT3, you see stuff the PS1 Gran Turismos wish they could be capable of. Of course, the cars are prettier and with not too many car textures with big pixels. Also, you can see through the glass.

So if Vision Gran Turismo is following suit of Gran Turismo 2000, I shudder to think what PD will do in making a much more beautiful graphics model. Perhaps muddy rally racing, a sunny day in New York City with snow falling and getting worse as the race presses on, Special Stage Route 5 sees a clear evening fade into a beautiful night setting, maybe even rain at Grand Valley, only getting worse. Like I said, give it until the fourth quarter of the year, the holiday season, or even next year to think about all of this.

 

[Jedi2016]

Isn't it nice when a two Texans share their views on a subject like this to the world?

Damn straight.

You brought up what could be "better" about GT5... well, from what little we know of the system's capabilities, I think I can take a pretty good guess at that.

1) Higher-poly cars. This means smoother edges, better reflections (because it won't have to reflect around oddball smooth shading on a low-poly model), and more detail. The addition of true bump mapping and especially normal mapping will also help for small details like inset door handles, the spaces between parts of the car (hood, doors, etc), and things like car names that are frequently tacked onto cars instead of just painted on.

2) HDR reflections. You think the real-time environmental reflections in GT3/4 were impressive? Hoo, boy.. HDR backdrops for reflections add a %^*load of realism to images. As an example, check out this website: http://www.deathfall.com/article.php?sid=2836 . As simple as those images are, they look REAL, almost entirely because they're using HDR reflections. GT5 will do the same. Also expect to see more complex reflections. Instead of just the environment, you'll probably also be able to see things like, oh.. the other cars. Perhaps even parts of your own car (spoilers, etc).

3) HDR illumination. As the car drives around (particularly as it becomes dirty, and becomes more diffuse instead of reflective), it will pick up REAL illumination from the environment around it. No more "plain white sun".. blue light from the sky, green from the grass, catching light from anything and everything around it. INCLUDING other cars. If you're in a white car, and a red car goes driving by, you'll pick up a bit of red illumination from it as long as it's near you.

4) Higher resolution textures. This means the roads will look more real, and the buildings will probably be very close to photorealistic, especially if they use image modeling like that PGR pic in the other thread. Basically, more detail everywhere.

5) Advanced shaders. Depending on the car, this might not make a huge difference, but on some it will be like night and day. We'll finally have real metallic car paint, with multiple specular highlights (for example, if you shine a bright light at a metallic-painted car, you see a bright white highlight from your light, but you also see a broad colored highlight from the paint.. a simple shader can do this). Bare metal cars like the DeLorean will finally LOOK like bare metal instead of just silver or gray.

6) Advanced image filters. This can encompass quite a few things, but some good examples would be REAL grass on the sides of the track (created via the same filters used to create hair on characters). It could also mean the addition of vector motion blur. Some people don't care much about motion blur, but when you're zipping down that back straight at LeMans at 200mph, it'll feel that much faster when you see the trees streak into green and brown blurs as you blow by.

7) Advanced particle and volumetric effects. When a car throws up sparks, it'll REALLY throw up sparks instead of those wimpy five or six particles we get nowadays. When a car spins out of control or does a burnout on the starting grid, the plume of smoke will be BIG, it'll be THICK, and it'll linger. Imagine sitting on the line in your '69 Camaro, you punch it, the ENTIRE car is surrounded in volumetric smoke, and suddenly your car rockets out of it. Pure bliss. For those wondering what "real" volumetric smoke looks like, take a look at the Killzone video, at the exposions and missle trails. Now imagine that, only white, and billowing from the back tires of that '69 Camaro. The particle capabilities also mean things like leaves on the side of the track. Not just five or six at a certain point, but hundreds, THOUSANDS of them along the entire length of the track, that blow realistically as the cars whiz by at 150mph+.

That's just a few things. Oh, yeah... GT5 is going to rock hard in the graphics department. Polyphony is known for great things, and they continually release games that surprise even other developers. I see no reason to believe they won't continue the tradition.

 

[2004TSX]

whooo.....that was long.......well put!

 

[kikie]

And what about a real 3D environment? ==> every little detail in 3D, like grass, sand, tracks and the holes in the asphalt, little rocks beside the track or on the trck incase of a rally track (like WRC4 etc.... ????????

 

[2004TSX]

^

^

That would make it very cool!

 

[kikie]

If anything, its a sneak peek at "GT4 For The PS3".
All I'm saying is that there are a lot of clues and indicators that we might get "all" of GT4 when the PS3 is launched.

Nope!!
Look what McLaren F1GTR posted today (juin 25th): [post=1729157]Click!!and look at post#1[/post]

Vision Gran Turismo-
This looked like a very high-res version of GT4, which, when we spoke with series creator Kazunori Yamauchi, we found out it pretty much was. Awesome-looking real time pit crews and bystanders had been added, however. Yamauchi wanted to make it very clear that this is a tech demo, not GT5.

You see, even KY is stating that it is a tech demo, not GT5 or what you said: getting "all" of GT4 when the PS3 is launched.. It is just a tech demo, that's why we see Gran Turismo 4 written on the shirts of the pit crew, nothing more.

 

[Zardoz]

Nope!!
Look what McLaren F1GTR posted today (juin 25th): [post=1729157]Click!!and look at post#1[/post]

You see, even KY is stating that it is a tech demo, not GT5 or what you said: getting "all" of GT4 when the PS3 is launched.. It is just a tech demo, that's why we see Gran Turismo 4 written on the shirts of the pit crew, nothing more.

You just put words in Kaz' mouth. He didn't say "or what you said: getting 'all' of GT4 when the PS3 is launched".

You said it, not Kazunori Yamauchi.

He said it isn't GT5. So did I. He said VGT is a tech demo. Of course it is, but a tech demo of what? What does it demonstrate?

All I'm saying is that there are some tantalizing clues that it demonstrates what GT4 can be on the PS3, which opens up all sorts of possibilities when the new console is introduced.

Keep in mind that Kaz and Sony are in a very competitive business. They are not going to announce to the world, and their formidable competitor, Microsoft, what their exact plans are for the launch of their most-important-ever product, the PS3. If there's going to be a "GT4 For The PS3", they aren't going to tell Microsoft all about it a year in advance.

BTW: Remember the graphic in Vision GT? It says "from partial reality to complete reality". One could interpret that as a reference to "partial GT4", which we could be playing right now, and "complete GT4", which we might get on the PS3 at intro. Look at what's in Vision GT: GT4 logos, GT4 cars, GT4 tracks, and GT4 graphics.

Like I said, there are lots of tantalizing little clues.

 

[Dave A]

It demonstrates that the GT series will be coming onto the PS3 and that it will have larger grids, a tech demo, is NOT a game demo, theres a difference, one shows whats possible, while the other shows whats in development. If MS found out there would be GT4 re-released for PS3 they wouldn't bat an eyelid, it'd piss more people off than satisfy them. You're reading far too much into it. The partial reality to complete reality is in reference to a comment Kaz made regarding GT5 actually, he said GT5 will bridge the gap from what looks like a game, to reality, GT4 doesn't come close so even an updated version can't be described as reality. All the clues point to GT5, not a re-release of GT4.

 

[kikie]

You just put words in Kaz' mouth

nope I didn't, it was a quote.

getting 'all' of GT4 when the PS3 is launched

I didn't say that, you did!!! I was quoting you!!!! => post#46

All I'm saying is that there are some tantalizing clues that it demonstrates what GT4 can be on the PS3...

post # 58
You are absolutely about right about.
but you also said:

If anything, its a sneak peek at "GT4 For The PS3"

Like I said and many others, there will be no GT4 on the PS3
I am sorry but I don't believe that KY is going to so stupid to release GT4, 2 times, although GT4 is going to be much more "developed", like you said.
And post #1 made by you

We are running a throttled-back, partially-disabled version of GT4 so that we can run it on our venerable old PS2s. The real thing, fully opened up, will be bundled with the PS3 when it is introduced.
GT5 will come later. The next version of the game will just be 100% of GT4, and they'll give it to us with the PS3

.
Or I am reading it wrong or you won't admit you could be wrong.
You stated in your first post that GT4, fully opened though, is going to be a launch title for the PS3!!
If there is going to be a launch title, it's definately not going to be called GT4. We have that already. So a launch title with a fully developed GT4 isn't GT4 anymore!!! It is another game, it is that simple. VGT is just a tech demo based on GT4. But you also said that!!
An off topic example. VW Golf has 6 models. The latest model is the Golf V plus.
Lets say that the Golf V is a simple model and there is going to be another model, a fully developed model, well they are not going to call it Golf V again, although it is the same car with some changes. This is the same with GT4. If it is going to be a fully developed launch title, it is going to be called differently and it is a different game!!!.