FWD Sports Car?

[nobuffalo]

I voted no.


I'll let the discussion continue...

No surprise there, I mean after all, you are american...

I voted yes, and I think niky summed it up pretty good this argument about FF being a compromise which i'm surprised no one else has commented on it.

Front-engine rear-drive is a compromise. It gives more cargo space and passenger room than the optimum mid-engined design. It is safer and easier to drive (more understeer). And it allows manufacturers to build their sports cars on platforms shared with other vehicles (see 350Z).

All of this conflicts with the idea of a sports car, which is to make compromises to favor performance, not comfort or economy of manufacture.

 

[Joey D]

No surprise there, I mean after all, you are american...

What does being American have to do with it?

 

[speed junkie]

What kind of transmission would you consider a "sports car" to have and why?

 

[speed junkie]

No surprise there, I mean after all, you are american...

Fail. Hes from Ukraine.

 

[Balocco]

quickly! Front or Rear-wheel-drive?!

also, sports car or no?

The coolest thing about the Sonett is the V4 engine.

And on the subject of FWD sports cars, yes, sports cars can be FWD. And you can have an FWD supercar, too.

At least you can when you power them with a Maserati V6 that you place well behind the front wheels.

 

[nobuffalo]

Just read back a few pages, it was a joke.

 

[Paulie]

It sounded like you were saying high powered cars are more fun then lower powered cars. I think cars can be fun no matter what power rating, I think the Miata is a prime example.

For me, I find lowered powered cars more fun then higher powered cars. This is especially true if the lower powered car has awesome suspension, tires, etc. on it. Seriously I would rather drive my buddy's Neon then a Corvette, or even my car if I put better tires and brakes on it.

And sticking with the FWD thing, for me a low powered FWD car will almost always be more fun than a RWD high powered car. I'm probably the minority on that though.

Nope, I merely said higher powere cars also tend to be fun. Personally, I've never had the opportunity to drive something small and agile on track or something powerful and fast (on track), so which I have more fun in is yet to be determined. But I have driven both on the road, and I know both can be fun.

 

[Balocco]

Nope, I merely said higher powere cars also tend to be fun. Personally, I've never had the opportunity to drive something small and agile on track or something powerful and fast, so which I have more fun in is yet to be determined. But I have driven both on the road, and I know both can be fun.

In the real world, I tend to find cheap, simple, small cars without much power to be the most fun, because you actually can approach the car's limit without breaking the law or going so fast you kill yourself. A Mk.1 GTI driven at 9/10ths is more fun and exciting than a 911 Turbo driven at 2/10ths.

 

[niky]

Nope, I merely said higher powere cars also tend to be fun. Personally, I've never had the opportunity to drive something small and agile on track or something powerful and fast (on track), so which I have more fun in is yet to be determined. But I have driven both on the road, and I know both can be fun.

Having done both, I can honestly say: depends on the car. There's nothing like the rush of driving something with more hp than brains. But there's also nothing like the thrill of driving a shopping cart on its door-handles.

To note: many enthusiasts I've met who have cars like BMW M3s, Evolutions, Porsche 911s (and even a guy who owns, of all things, a Pantera and a Lola racer...) have a Miata in their garage... for those days when they feel like... y'know... taking a spin around the racetrack. ...some even have... gasp... Civics.

 

[Jetboy.]

I figured I'd throw myself into the fray now. Voted yes, but with conditions. A car from it's start that is designed for performance and not practicality makes it a sports car. I also feel that ballance is a really big issue also. Notice that the "sports car" forefathers all had dinky 50-100 horse engines. It matched the weight and tire/suspension technology for the time period because it was developed for that purpose alone. As much as I'd love to say it, my Olds, with the High Output engine, Level Four suspension package, and muncie-getrag tranny, isn't a sports car. It wasn't developed as one. Same vein, the Cobalt SS isnt one. It's simply a Cobalt with some tacked-on go-fast pieces.

The first gen Diamond Star Triplets in my opinion are a toss-up. Out of the gate, they were developed for both the misers and enthusiasts alike. Having driven a first gen with the 4G63T, I would say it is a sports car. The cockpit fits around you as a glove, all responses are very direct, it has rear seats for legless riders only, and is barely practical in any stretch of the imagination and has impressive performance for a two door coupe.

The Fiat Coupé is another one that was developed for performance out of the gate. It featured a turbocharger upon it's model entry, had full independant suspension, and the turbo cars had a factory limited slip. It could 0-60 in 6.3 and hit 156 mph. I'd say it's a sports car.

Cheers
Jetboy

 

[JCE]

So what if a new model Miata was released in the upcoming year. Almost the same as the MK1 but maybe a few aesthetic changes to appeal to todays age. Same engine, same double wishbone suspension, but it was front wheel drive. Would you truly feel no different to the idea?

I wouldn't. If it performs the same then what do I care what wheels drive the car? Besides if a company has done their homework a FWD car can be brilliant. I just don't understeer in my Focus, and if I lift off the throttle mid corner I can lift off oversteer.

I think a lot of people would be disappointed. Me included.

But - it'd still be a sports car. They'd still give it great steering and a snappy gearbox, it'd still be light weight, it'd still be great around a track... essentially the only thing it wouldn't be able to do that previous ones could is power oversteer. Especially at the moment, front-drive technology is such that you can still have awesomely effective drivers cars (such as the Focus RS) even with loads of power. With a Miata and 150bhp? Easy. The sole difference is that you'd no longer be able to power out of corners sideways.

Do all sports cars have to be able to powerslide? Is that really what makes a sports car?...

+1 Good post.

In my experience, cars with a bit of power also tend to be fun.

One of the most fun cars I've ever driven was actually my previous '07 Ford Focus with a 5spd manual and a pavement shattering 136bhp.

I figured I'd throw myself into the fray now. Voted yes, but with conditions. A car from it's start that is designed for performance and not practicality makes it a sports car. I also feel that ballance is a really big issue also. Notice that the "sports car" forefathers all had dinky 50-100 horse engines. It matched the weight and tire/suspension technology for the time period because it was developed for that purpose alone. As much as I'd love to say it, my Olds, with the High Output engine, Level Four suspension package, and muncie-getrag tranny, isn't a sports car. It wasn't developed as one. Same vein, the Cobalt SS isnt one. It's simply a Cobalt with some tacked-on go-fast pieces.

Hmmm, actually the SRT4, Cobalt SS and other such cars have more than just "go fast bits" on them. Don't they not have bigger brakes and better suspensions? I know my Focus SVT does and its got one of the best FWD chassis in history and it handles better that Mitsu DSM ever could.

The first gen Diamond Star Triplets in my opinion are a toss-up. Out of the gate, they were developed for both the misers and enthusiasts alike. Having driven a first gen with the 4G63T, I would say it is a sports car. The cockpit fits around you as a glove, all responses are very direct, it has rear seats for legless riders only, and is barely practical in any stretch of the imagination and has impressive performance for a two door coupe.

Hypocrite. The DSM cars, Eclipse, Talon and Laser are exactly what you just said in reference to the Cobalt SS and etc. Economy cars with "go fast bits" on them. The stock FWD non-turbo versions of these cars are some of the slowest, pig handling pieces of donkey poo I've ever driven. They are quite WRETCHED. The understeer is HIDEOUS. You NEED AWD and a turbo for these to be any good and even then they are not nearly as fun as their older brothers which I owned one (3000GT VR4)--and it is a Grand Tourer and not a sports car in itself.

If you wanted to nominate a Japanese sports car that was FWD you needed to nominate the 200SX SE-R S13. I had one, and they are quite good.

 

[JB-BMW1989]

It's hilarious that Jetboy. mentioned a car based on the first gen Eclipse a sports car. Well it's not, it's a sport compact. The Fiat Barchetta is a real sports car, not the coupe. You know, I prefer sports cars than sport compacts. Thank god, there's a true Japanese sports car, the Mazda RX7.

 

[Jetboy.]

Hmmm, actually the SRT4, Cobalt SS and other such cars have more than just "go fast bits" on them. Don't they not have bigger brakes and better suspensions? I know my Focus SVT does and its got one of the best FWD chassis in history and it handles better that Mitsu DSM ever could.

Yes, but in the same vein that my Olds had front and rear anti-roll bars as part of the rear suspension package. A similarly equiped Beretta hit .92g on the skidpad and had ABS/4 wheel discs. But it wouldnt be one either, right?

Hypocrite. The DSM cars, Eclipse, Talon and Laser are exactly what you just said in reference to the Cobalt SS and etc. Economy cars with "go fast bits" on them. The stock FWD non-turbo versions of these cars are some of the slowest, pig handling pieces of donkey poo I've ever driven. They are quite WRETCHED. The understeer is HIDEOUS. You NEED AWD and a turbo for these to be any good and even then they are not nearly as fun as their older brothers which I owned one (3000GT VR4)--and it is a Grand Tourer and not a sports car in itself.

As I explained, in production they were developed out of the gate with these performance pieces installed. The SS Tur'Balt, SVT Focus, and SRT-4 were developed way after production started on the base model (To be fair, the Super'Balt was released a little over a year later of the standard). Of course this is really reaching for straws and I admit the arguement looks like crap, but it's what I sit by.

It's hilarious that Jetboy. mentioned a car based on the first gen Eclipse a sports car. Well it's not, it's a sport compact. The Fiat Barchetta is a real sports car, not the coupe. You know, I prefer sports cars than sport compacts. Thank god, there's a true Japanese sports car, the Mazda RX7.

It's hilarious that you offered nothing truly constructive to this thread other than a car that offers nothing to the topic mentioned.


Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[JB-BMW1989]

It's hilarious that you offered nothing truly constructive to this thread other than a car that offers nothing to the topic mentioned.


Cheers,
Jetboy

You mentioned the Plymouth Laser as a sports car, that's what make you hilarious. Get your facts straight and grow up.

 

[McLaren]

It's hilarious that Jetboy. mentioned a car based on the first gen Eclipse a sports car. Well it's not, it's a sport compact. The Fiat Barchetta is a real sports car, not the coupe. You know, I prefer sports cars than sport compacts. Thank god, there's a true Japanese sports car, the Mazda RX7.

They're not 2 different categories. They can be the same thing.

Your last sentence is just silly as well. Pretty sure the NSX, GT-R, & Supra were true Japanese cars.

 

[Jetboy.]

You mentioned the Plymouth Laser as a sports car, that's what make you hilarious. Get your facts straight and grow up.

And you were the one who walked in with the attitude. I put something here that I felt was contributory to the thread, which in this case, was a car that was developed as a performance car straight at the green light for production. If you do not like the vehicle I posted in my opinion, post one up that's better.


Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[Perfect Balance]

I wouldn't. If it performs the same then what do I care what wheels drive the car? Besides if a company has done their homework a FWD car can be brilliant. I just don't understeer in my Focus, and if I lift off the throttle mid corner I can lift off oversteer.

It wouldn't perform the same though. It may get the same lap times, but you could stick a set of slicks under a Buick and achieve that as well, so that point is irrelevant. Physics say that it won't behave like RWD car, so what you're describing is impossible to achieve.

 

[Horde_R35]

A real proof! Must see!

 

[JB-BMW1989]

They're not 2 different categories. They can be the same thing.

Your last sentence is just silly as well. Pretty sure the NSX, GT-R, & Supra were true Japanese cars.

Correction, the RX7 and the Supra had been true Japanese sports car since 1978. The first gen Skyline GT-R was built as a sedan in 1969 and the NSX was built in 1990.

By the way, the Lancer Evolution is considered as a sport compact, would that make a sports car too?

 

[Prosthetic]

No surprise there, I mean after all, you are american...

HELL YEAH!! YEEE HAWWW!!! We Mericans like big VEEE EIGHTSS AND RWWD, ORANGE PAINT, FLAMES AND SPOILERS YEEE HAWWWWWW Who needs FWD!!


I say... Yes, FWD can be sports cars.. I really don't see how they can't be.

 

[Horde_R35]

FD2 has 225HP 👍!

EDIT: Now you can all comment on the cars he betten in Suzuka!

 

[McLaren]

Correction, the RX7 and the Supra had been true Japanese sports car since 1978. The first gen Skyline GT-R was built as a sedan in 1969 and the NSX was built in 1990.

You never said anything about their years. You just said the RX-7 is the only true Japanese sports car. That's just not true.

By the way, the Lancer Evolution is considered as a sport compact, would that make a sports car too?

Read my post. I said they can the same thing, not they are.

 

[JB-BMW1989]

@JetBoy.

This is a sports car,

@McLaren

Oh... so that's what you mean by "can". Anyways, you're right, the RX7 is not a true Japanese sports car. The Supra had been competing against the RX7 because of it. I just got carried away. My bad.

 

[Prosthetic]

This is a sports car

Looks like a Lotus.

 

[Jetboy.]

@JetBoy.

This is a sports car,

I will concede that what you posted is, indeed, a purpose built sports car. But the topic of this matter is if there is a possibility of a Front Wheel Drive sports car, which, unfortunately, makes this Lotus not part of the topic at hand.

This, on the other hand, was a pre-developed FWD Sports Car effort by VW, the Corrado.

The suspension was sophiticated out of the gate and the lowest offering engine was still rather quick getting up to speed.



Cheers
Jetboy

 

[niky]

Oh... so that's what you mean by "can". Anyways, you're right, the RX7 is not a true Japanese sports car. The Supra had been competing against the RX7 because of it. I just got carried away. My bad.

The RX7 is a purpose-built sports car. It's low, light and built to be driven at high speeds.

The Supra fails to meet requirement number 2. So, while I, and many others, consider it a sportscar, it's technically more of a Gran Turismo.

 

[Jetboy.]

And, while Im still on about it, here's another FWD sports car (Thanks to Jim Prower for the reference).

Cheers
Jetboy

 

[Smallhorses]

Correction, the RX7 and the Supra had been true Japanese sports car since 1978. The first gen Skyline GT-R was built as a sedan in 1969 and the NSX was built in 1990.

*Cough*
1973 Nissan Skyline GT-R (You remember, the non-sedan one?) would like a word in your ear...

Please open your other eye OneEyedPimp20 and try to lose the attitude towards othe members as you make a constructive contribution. Thanks.​

 

[JCE]

It wouldn't perform the same though. It may get the same lap times, but you could stick a set of slicks under a Buick and achieve that as well, so that point is irrelevant. Physics say that it won't behave like RWD car, so what you're describing is impossible to achieve.

But if it performs the same what do I care if its driven by the front wheels. My measure of performance is more than BHP. If it gets the same and or similar lap times on a track then it would "perform" the same wouldn't it? Just saying.

 

[Eric.]

Yes, but in the same vein that my Olds had front and rear anti-roll bars as part of the rear suspension package. A similarly equiped Beretta hit .92g on the skidpad and had ABS/4 wheel discs. But it wouldnt be one either, right?


As I explained, in production they were developed out of the gate with these performance pieces installed. The SS Tur'Balt, SVT Focus, and SRT-4 were developed way after production started on the base model (To be fair, the Super'Balt was released a little over a year later of the standard). Of course this is really reaching for straws and I admit the arguement looks like crap, but it's what I sit by.


It's hilarious that you offered nothing truly constructive to this thread other than a car that offers nothing to the topic mentioned.


Cheers,
Jetboy

In that case my Civic Si is a sports car too, as the Si was developed at the same time as the other versions. I couldn't say about any other generations of it though.