Gamers/Streamers Swatting Megathread

  • Thread starter FoRiZon
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I saw this story this morning. Just awful.

Our discussion turned to who deserves the harshest sentence; the fake-adress-giver, the person wanting to swat them, or the person that orchestrated it. Then I realized it didn't matter: I'd be completely fine with all three getting 25 years. Of course, then the problem is that they're a drain on society for that much longer.
What?!! Telling a lie to another civilian should land one in prison for 25 years?

But why stop there, right? Maybe they should be......

Ridiculous. The false address giver should not be charged with any offence.

Sometimes the "but for...." argument applies. Not here. On the chain of culpability, the weight increases progressively towards the other end from the false address giver.
 
You're all over the road like a hacked autonomous vehicle.

Where are you getting that number? If it's not easy to get information on a case by case basis, how is that number generated? If a shooting is justified, how is it murder?

What does any of this have to do with making a dangerous prank call over a 🤬 game?

All over the Road? I guess I should give in and accept police shooting like it's the wild west.

That number can be found on the FBI website but I'll give you something better with at least some amount of information other than "the shootings happened".

A dangerous prank call over a game resulted in a policeman shooting an innocent man, keep up :P

Some of these are interesting, but then again I'll sit around reading as much information as I can stand if I think it's from a credible source. Anyway.

Amanda Lenee Jones, a 30-year-old woman armed with a pipe, was shot on Dec. 21, 2017, in Schertz, Tex.
Female
Unknown race
30 to 44
No/unknown mental illness
Other weapon
No body cam recording
Fleeing by foot

Clearly a direct threat to the officer's life /s
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/



So not a single one was justified?
Did you read my post or just the part you wanted to think I was saying? Clearly I stated the majority where justified?
 
The false address giver should not be charged with any offence.
If one armed with knowledge that this prank would be performed, giving false information in order to save face is more harmful than withholding information entirely and facing ridicule. The action isn't nearly as harmful as performing the prank and isn't subject to comparable punishment, but it contributed to the way events unfolded and shouldn't be ignored.
 
What?!! Telling a lie to another civilian should land one in prison for 25 years?

But why stop there, right? Maybe they should be......


Ridiculous. The false address giver should not be charged with any offence.

Filing a false police report is already illegal and the penalties can be very severe if said report results in death.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1038

Did you read my post or just the part you wanted to think I was saying? Clearly I stated the majority where justified?

I'm wondering if you read your own post right now.

Physical observation would go a long way, or I could just knock on your door and shoot you lol.

The police in the United States are way too trigger happy and murder around 1000 people every year. It's not very easy to find the information on a case by case basis and of course the majority are justified but still. This is a serious problem.

Since you like hypotheticals, lets just pretend this guy that was just killed by police was a man of stature in society. Do you think he would be dead today?

Nowhere do you say any were justified, let alone a majority.
 
I'm wondering if you read your own post right now.
Well this is exactly what I posted.
The police in the United States are way too trigger happy and murder around 1000 people every year. It's not very easy to find the information on a case by case basis and of course the majority are justified but still. This is a serious problem.
 
I saw that Daniel Shaver shooting on 4chan just yesterday. Like you said, disgusting and disturbing: the cops were extremely hostile to Daniel, and all it took was a single, slow arm movement towards his waist for one of them to draw fire on him as if he was about to blow up a nuclear bomb or something. It's even more disgusting once you notice they drew fire AFTER he showed he had nothing in his hand, as opposed to shooting right at the moment his hand was on his waist. When trained cops can't even control their own guns, how do they expect a DRUNK dude who is scared to death to control his actions? When the cop tells Shaver to crawl towards him he doesn't wait until the Daniel's hands even reached the floor before he shouts at him "CRAWL TOWARDS ME!!", Jesus Christ...

On this topic: I have no doubt the swatter deserves the harshest penalty, followed by the cop. Regarding the guy that gave out the fake address, I haven't got enough info to make a determination. But truth is, it is absolutely the swatter's fault: it was his decision to swat the other person, and the cops only responded to that call (whether they carried out their task poorly is entirely another thing).

He helped, he was an accessory to the death of a father of two. No one told him to give out a fake address or being part of an effort to prank someone in such a dangerous (to both sides cops and the victim).

In the video you watched, did it mentioned the fact that the the shooter had "You're :censored:ed" enscribed on the barrel of his rifle.

Wasn't the barrel of his gun, it was the ejection port cover/jacket
 
Physical observation would go a long way, or I could just knock on your door and shoot you lol.

What is there to observe if you don't see anyone through the windows? No the team/cop involved shouldn't have shot him considering he answered the door and probably did so in a civil manner. Who would answer the door while in the midst of committing a huge crime?

The police in the United States are way too trigger happy and murder around 1000 people every year. It's not very easy to find the information on a case by case basis and of course the majority are justified but still. This is a serious problem.

I saw a video a while ago that you reminded me of. It's about how cops have split seconds to make their own life or death decisions along with others. I just grabbed the first link that contained the video so here you go.

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_mo...lists-like-shoes-life-threatening-situations/

Now it's not to say that all situations are like this, and there are some bad cops out there. That doesn't mean all of these 1000 people were murdered. Cops are trained a certain way in order for them to survive. Could the training be changed? Probably. Could more cops die on the job if force is reduced in the situations that require it? Possibly. America is a strange place in that so many average joes can carry guns and for a cop to know a situation will be safe for them is questionable

Since you like hypotheticals, lets just pretend this guy that was just killed by police was a man of stature in society. Do you think he would be dead today?

Likely not? If your face has been all over the TV there's a pretty good chance you're not committing the crime. I would hazard a guess that the sort of crimes committed resulting in a SWAT response are by people we have no idea who they are. However as I said above if you answer the door at an address where SWAT was called to it's unlikely there is a crime happening.
 
Yes you do, I'm not talking about csi here just some common sense steps I'm sure are protocol. The fact people are willing to accept and even defend the police action here is alarming.

Who is defending? It's a situation where a major threat has been called in and they think someone's life is at risk. That's not something you spend time investigating, and if so then the idea of emergency response should be renamed.

I can post the 911 recording that caused this tragedy, I've listened to most of it and it doesn't sound like an easily detectable prank in the works.
https://www.dexerto.com/news/hoax-911-call-made-suspect-fatal-kansas-swatting-released/41594
 
Not all actions performed by one individual resulting in the death of another constitute murder. Pretty simple.

Yeah I know that, I also know the definition of the word murder, to save confusion I could have used the word homicide. I don't know why I always use murder in discussion but it's not to intentionally confuse the issue.

If what I was saying was unclear surely it's all straightened out by now? Or, I really did mean to say justifiable homicide equals murder? I'm not asking to converse with mind readers here but it shouldn't be so hard.

It's funny you're more interested in that then say, the link I posted for you about the police homicide rate against civilians? To each their own.
 
If one armed with knowledge that this prank would be performed, giving false information in order to save face is more harmful than withholding information entirely and facing ridicule. The action isn't nearly as harmful as performing the prank and isn't subject to comparable punishment, but it contributed to the way events unfolded and shouldn't be ignored.
Often a lot of things contribute to a resultant crime.

Maybe I am in a car stopped due to a red light and have left space for other cars to potentially cross an intersection. I might have a view of oncoming traffic where they don't. It doesn't matter if I wave them through safely, accidentally disastrously, or intentionally disastrously, the other driver is still responsible for their own actions on the road. It's not a "but for...." situation. It's not "but for me waving them through at the wrong time the accident wouldn't have happened". The other driver holds all responsibility if they choose to drive "blind" through the intersection.

The false address giver simply told a lie to another civilian. The recipient of the lie was still fully responsible for their own actions.
Filing a false police report is already illegal and the penalties can be very severe if said report results in death.
The false address giver didn't interact with the police at all.

* I was going to abbreviate "false address giver" to have it less cumbersome in it's repeated use, but didn't for a likely obvious reason.
 
Here's a hypothetical.

What if one of these SWAT pranks got called on someone who was playing CoD or Battlefield in their basement, with a powerful surround sound system? Pranksters phone in "he's executing hostages in the basement."

SWAT approaches/enters the house, hear gunfire, and automatically assume the worst. Start clearing the house, go down to the basement, flashbang, buddy jumps up off the couch with a PS4 controller in his hand....dead.
 
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What?!! Telling a lie to another civilian should land one in prison for 25 years?

But why stop there, right? Maybe they should be......


Ridiculous. The false address giver should not be charged with any offence.

Sometimes the "but for...." argument applies. Not here. On the chain of culpability, the weight increases progressively towards the other end from the false address giver.

I would love to point out that I DID say "at the very least endangerment." It is a simple fact that any decent defense attorney defending the intended swatee can beat a Murder 2 rap, but the fact of the matter is three things:

1. He DID give out the fake address Knowingly because he would have been a victim of the same crime (swatting).

2. Malice can be implied (one of the factors of Federal murder charges) because the intended swatee had an indifference to human life WHEN he gave out that address.

3. As you could probably ask Matt Jarbo, when you swat someone, you are committing at least 3 crimes (more or less depending on jurisdiction). One is falsifying a request for emergency services, which in Kansas is a misdemeanor, second is using an electronic device or software to conceal your identity (felony in Kansas), and finally it is a huge felony in Kansas if the subject of the call was about violent crime.

That is on top of any computer fraud charges that the feds might want to throw at you.
 
As far as fault goes, the hands of the guy who gave out the fake address are much cleaner than the rest of the people involved, but certainly not spotless.

It was a stupid cowardly thing to do, but what if he gave out his own address? Would he be the one who got killed instead? Now obviously he shouldn’t have given out any address period if the understanding was that it would be swatted, but I think he probably believed the other guy wouldn’t actually do it... he was calling a bluff, just with the cowardly assurance that if they did actually swat the address, that it wouldn’t be his own. And in a way he was right, since the other guy didn’t actually have the balls to do it himself and got someone else to swat the address instead.

Ultimately I think the degree of his culpability is somewhat contingent upon how credible he thought swatting threat was, but unless he knew with very high certainty that the threat was going to be followed through on, his culpability is minuscule relative to the others IMO.
 
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No one apart from the trigger happy cop and the person who called to swat should be in trouble, the guy who gave the wrong address didn't force the guy to do it.

And despite how much of a dick move it was, do you want to put your life in danger?.
 
I think who initially brought up the idea of swatting has some impact on the culpability of fake address guy too...

If the exchange went something like “I’ll swat you” “yeah right I dare you, my address is 123 fake street”, it’s not as bad as if it went something like “hey if you’re so mad then why don’t you swat me? Here i’ll give you my address... 123 fake street. I bet you won’t”
 
As far as fault goes, the hands of the guy who gave out the fake address are much cleaner than the rest of the people involved, but certainly not spotless.

It was a stupid cowardly thing to do, but what if he gave out his own address? Would he be the one who got killed instead? Now obviously he shouldn’t have given out any address period if the understanding was that it would be swatted, but I think he probably believed the other guy wouldn’t actually do it... he was calling a bluff, just with the cowardly assurance that if they did actually swat the address, that it wouldn’t be his own. And in a way he was right, since the other guy didn’t actually have the balls to do it himself and got someone else to swat the address instead.

Ultimately I think the degree of his culpability is somewhat contingent upon how credible he thought swatting threat was, but unless he knew with very high certainty that the threat was going to be followed through on, his culpability is minuscule relative to the others IMO.
I agree, but he shouldn't get away clean either. Whether anyone here wants to believe it or not, he contributed to a man's death directly by giving out that address.

EDIT to add: You are also correct that that is how the conversation went down that lead to the swatting to begin with. This video has part of the conversation.



Fast forward to 3:30 please and pause it to read it.
 
All 3 people, the officer and the two idiots playing CoD, are responsible for this. The officer directly ended the life of the innocent man, while one gamer thought it was funny to create a fake hostage situation and the other probably knew it was a fake address and literally let someone die for giggles.
 
All 3 people, the officer and the two idiots playing CoD, are responsible for this. The officer directly ended the life of the innocent man, while one gamer thought it was funny to create a fake hostage situation and the other probably knew it was a fake address and literally let someone die for giggles.
There’s 4 people involved. The cop, the two COD players, and the guy who actually made the swatting phonecall at the request of the COD player who thought he had the other COD player’s address when really it was a fake.

The last guy basically sounds like a swatting hitman of sorts, and apparently has taken payments for calling in fake bomb threats in the past
 
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There’s 4 people involved. The cop, the two COD players, and the guy who actually made the swatting phonecall at the request of the COD player who thought he had the other COD player’s address when really it was a fake.

The last guy basically sounds like a swatting hitman of sorts, and apparently has taken payments for calling in fake bomb threats in the past
Didn't know there was a 4th. The last guy should get 10-20 years minimum for being a general firebrand.
 
I can't say I blame the lower classes for their signifcant hatred of cops. Instead of doing their job, they behave like bullies.
I don't know what you really mean by this line but why only the "lower classes"?
Rappers, athletes and other high paid people who like dark tinted windows get their cars pulled over initially for dark tint and it usually leads to an arrest for some kinda BS...
They are power hungry bullies getting pay back for their childhood.(my opinion)

Saw a comment about SWAT. SWAT is known to be a shoot kill, ask questions later force(here in GA anyways), they are the last resort.

Oh and another good reason not to live stream yourself playing a video game, butt hurt adults love to throw temper tantrums when they lose.
Reminds me of a banned member here...
 
I don't know what you really mean by this line but why only the "lower classes"?
Rappers, athletes and other high paid people who like dark tinted windows get their cars pulled over initially for dark tint and it usually leads to an arrest for some kinda BS...
They are power hungry bullies getting pay back for their childhood.(my opinion)

Saw a comment about SWAT. SWAT is known to be a shoot kill, ask questions later force(here in GA anyways), they are the last resort.

Oh and another good reason not to live stream yourself playing a video game, butt hurt adults love to throw temper tantrums when they lose.
Reminds me of a banned member here...
The sad thing is that the person who was killed wasn't a gamer or anything. He was just a father who was killed because of three stupid people. Only solace (barely) is that the swatter was caught, but the two idiots gambling life or death over coffee were not.... yet.
 
the officer feared for his life

This Feared for my life crap has to stop.

Yes policing is dangerous and the police have a right to self defense but that being said, the officers know that the job is dangerous if they're that scared for their lives maybe they should look into another line of work.

Otherwise any cop can shot someone and then quote I feared for my life to try to justify it.

You don't see firefighters running away from a small building fire because they fear for their lives.

Maybe the US cops should become like the cops in london.
Gunless with special trained officers that only carry guns or maybe use non lethal ammo this way they learn to appreciate the importance of a gun and not over rely on it.
 
Infuriating to see someone die for no good reason what so ever. I assume the officer who fired the shot(s) acted out of fear for the lives of the hostages who were supposedly in the building. I agree with the sentiment that emergency response does not allow for investigation into the legitimacy of the claims being made. It's up to the officers on the scene to judge whether the threat is real or not, and in this case, they sadly failed. I won't presume to know why they failed, as we don't have the full details, nor can we possibly hope to understand what it's like to have seconds to react to stop what we perceive as a hostage situation.

As for the swatter. If it were up to me, he'd be executed. Not only would it send a clear message that Swatting will not be tolerated, it would also be a reasonable consequence for having instigated the death of an innocent person. Or so I think...

If I am a police officer responding to a hostage situation, can I really afford to doubt the validity of the claims? If I see the suspect coming out the door, and then going back inside, presumably to make good on his threats towards the hostages, what choice do I have but to act? had the situation been legit, and the suspect been allowed to walk back inside and killed his family, we would be raising hell at their failure to act. When just seconds matter, I suspect the last thing going through his mind was that this might be a hoax by some idiot giving out a fake address and situation. Basically, you can never know if you were right or wrong until after you've acted. Swatting, however, is very obviously wrong, as evident to anyone well before they've done it.


This Feared for my life crap has to stop.

Yes policing is dangerous and the police have a right to self defense but that being said, the officers know that the job is dangerous if they're that scared for their lives maybe they should look into another line of work.

Otherwise any cop can shot someone and then quote I feared for my life to try to justify it.

You don't see firefighters running away from a small building fire because they fear for their lives.

Maybe the US cops should become like the cops in london.
Gunless with special trained officers that only carry guns or maybe use non lethal ammo this way they learn to appreciate the importance of a gun and not over rely on it.

I'd love to see you dare patrol a gang heavy neighborhood without any real means of protection. The British police works, to a degree, because the Brits decided to punish the many for the actions of a few back when they removed access to legal ownership of guns a few decades back. A country that allows legal ownership of guns also needs a police with weapons of their own, or else they cannot operate within reasonable safety levels. Add in the problem of illegal gun ownership in bad neighborhoods, and the need for the police to carry guns of their own increases.

Now, whether you agree with the right to own firearms in the US or not is a different debate. Personally, I like that the US does not punish the many for the actions of the few (relatively speaking) by making guns illegal entirely. However, so long as the general public has access to firearms, the police will need weapons of their own to be able to meet any potential situation.

I would also add that you can have a police force that is armed without being liberal in their use of their weapons. Denmark, or indeed Scandinavia as a whole, is an example of that. Personally, I would not have much faith in an unarmed officer solving a bad situation, and armed response being several minutes away won't do anyone any good.
 
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America is a strange place in that so many average joes can carry guns and for a cop to know a situation will be safe for them is questionable.

No situation is without risk for a police officer, especially when you have a populace armed to the teeth like the US.

However, I see an awful lot of cops in these shootings that are in positions where they may have legitimately feared for their safety, but they didn't necessarily need to be in that position.

Let's say that there's a whole squad of you, armed, presumably armoured and well trained. You've surrounded the house. You're in cover. You demand the suspect exit the front door, and while he does he reaches for his waistband. There is no reasonable weapon he could have that provides a credible threat in that situation. Even if he pulls twin sub-machineguns out of his tighty whiteys, the chances of him doing any real damage are not good.

If you've set up the situation correctly, there's plenty of time to let him take whatever waistband related actions he wants, assess and respond appropriately and with consideration. Hell, if you've set up correctly even if the suspect walks out with an AR over his shoulder, there's still opportunity for dialogue instead of communicating with lead.

This is the problem I see with a lot of the police shootings. In the heat of the instant, perhaps the shootings can seem reasonable. But mostly, when you look at the overall encounter the police probably shouldn't have put themselves in that situation in the first place. It sounds a bit like victim blaming, but it's not. It's expecting a professional force to take appropriate measures to minimise risk to all involved and allow them to de-escalate from a same position.

Given that we're all exposed to a steady media diet of hero cops saving the day by shooting dozens of bad guys (fictionally or not), I wonder how much training the average police department puts into trying to explain that if that's happening then you as a police officer have almost certainly screwed the pooch.
 
'd love to see you dare patrol a gang heavy neighborhood without any real means of protection. The British police works, to a degree, because the Brits decided to punish the many for the actions of a few back when they removed access to legal ownership of guns a few decades back. A country that allows legal ownership of guns also needs a police with weapons of their own, or else they cannot operate within reasonable safety levels. Add in the problem of illegal gun ownership in bad neighborhoods, and the need for the police to carry guns of their own increases.
In the UK, guns can be owned legally and illegally. Handguns were banned around 20 years ago.
 

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