Gameshark, I cheated, did you?

[deadlyz33]

I play gt4 on ps3 now and I don't have a usb flash to copy game saves so I just set up b-spec while I sleep sometimes. I have like 5 mil in the bank and all the drift cars I could want (fully set up)

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It doesnt kill the game.

If you are a kid with time to kill - more power to you. But as an adult that enjoys the odd game play now and again, being able to access all the features/options and content without having to spend the needed 500 hours that you don't have is great.

Mmm kay. All I'm saying is you're missing out on a lot of stuff if you just jump into a game which has so much to offer (ANY good game, not just GT4) by gaining money & cars that would normally take weeks or months to achieve. I mean, it's your game..you can do what you want, but you're still missing out.

How come all the "anti-cheating" brigade can not fathom that it is possible to have multiple game saves, and enjoy the unlocked content one day, then play the hardcore manual credit by credit and race by race way the next day.

So what you're saying is you've played the game "the hard way" on one save as well as cheating on another? That's fine...I don't have a problem with that.

It's players who just buy a gameshark (or other such device), rip into the contents of a game, and then wonder why they can't tune a frickin' Integra...

...and to gamers such as myself, who have struggled and learned Gt the way it was meant to be played (no external devices) it just seems really weak.

??

Besides - if you have PAID money for the game, you should be able to choose when and how you access the content you PAID money for.

True....but you're still cheating. Just be honest about it. that's all I'm saying. You're still cheating and you're missing out on some really cool moments.

I'm trying to illuminate how great this game is and all you can think about is the $19.95 you just spent and how everything should be handed to you on a silver platter.

 

[tfujiwara]

But do you have a separate game save with which you actually play the game to it's fullest?

Like I said, my gameshark save game is used just for drifting and deciding which car to buy.👍

yeah I can..... its preety much the same as the gameshark. My friend has the gameshark and I know the difference

 

[Sniffs]

for those of you that have only ONE of the cheat devices (I have ARMax AND a Gameshark) each cheat device has a different set of codes worked out by their designers for you to play with.

suggested:
GS: try the "infinite tire wear" on a nasty enduro. it turns all four tires green, and you don't have to lose time changing them in the pits, just your gas/petrol
ARMax: have some fun and play with the "big wheels" code. you can have fun playing with he scale vectors of the wheel and tire packages. you can also shrink the wheels down to nothing and have only the brakes visible. try that on the antiques, and all you see is the axles!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

for those of you that have only ONE of the cheat devices (I have ARMax AND a Gameshark) each cheat device has a different set of codes worked out by their designers for you to play with.

suggested:
GS: try the "infinite tire wear" on a nasty enduro. it turns all four tires green, and you don't have to lose time changing them in the pits, just your gas/petrol

Really? What fun is that? Let's take one of the only challenging thing about enduros and remove it entirely.

Is there a way to put more detail in GT4 (instead of removing it)? Like, is it possible to make cars suffer chassis wear faster if you hit too many bumps during an enduro? that's what I'd be interested in trying if I had a GameShark.

I would like to try doing endurance races at tracks that don't have them. Or creating a line-up of Ai that doesn't include so many "slacker" cars that will never have a chance of winning or competing throughout the race. I get bored of races in which there's just 1 other car to compete against....

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why the heck did you pay 80 bucks for a game? That makes it seem like you and Solidsnake are both at the same end of the scale...

Okay, this was months ago but I'm bored, trying very hard to avoid doing a psych essay and I don't think I ever replied, so it's fair game.

I paid $80 for a game because that's how much they cost in Australia. About $80 when they first come out (maybe it was as low as $50-$60, I'm a bit hazy); I remember paying about $95 for Final Fantasy IX (took me months of saving pocket money, too). I don't know how much they cost in North America, but I daresay that when you take exchange rates into account, video games cost about the same. And if they don't, well, I don't have a choice: it's the store that decides the price, not me.

 

[Sniffs]

REally? What fun is that? Let's take one of the only challenging thing about enduros and remove it entirely.

Is there a way to put more detail in gT4 (instead of removing it)? Like, is it possible to make cars suffer chassis wear faster if you hit too many bumps during an enduro? that's what i'd be interested in trying if i had a GameShark.

I would like to try doing endurance races at tracks that don't have them. Or creating a line-up of Ai that doesn't include so many "slacker" cars that will never have a chance of winning or competeing throughout the race. I get bored of races in which there's just 1 other car to compete against....

that's for those of us who would rather B-spec something like the 24 LeMans. even a three hour is beyond my endurance when I'm on call for work every day except sunday. some of us have a life, yk

unless Polyphony hid a little more wear in there somewhere, then no. only codebreakers does extensive hacking that finds all the kinds of hidden details your looking for. if I could look, I would (i need some older codes to add to my PSX Gameshark), but my e-mail has been banned from CMGSCCC, probably bor being a spam bouncer (my e-mails are used to bounce spam. damn hackers)

 

[Parnelli Bone]

that's for those of us who would rather B-spec something like the 24 LeMans. even a three hour is beyond my endurance when I'm on call for work every day except sunday. some of us have a life, yk

Trust me...I have a life. I don't game nearly as much as I'd like to. But when I do game, I want the highest-possible experience, including all those moments of pure tension. I have substance-abuse issues too; and the high I get from pure racing is a great substitute for drugs.

unless Polyphony hid a little more wear in there somewhere, then no. only codebreakers does extensive hacking that finds all the kinds of hidden details your looking for. if I could look, I would (i need some older codes to add to my PSX Gameshark), but my e-mail has been banned from CMGSCCC, probably bor being a spam bouncer (my e-mails are used to bounce spam. damn hackers)

I'd appreciate it. I know Sportwagon & HYBRIDLVR were able to make cool stuff happen via gameshark in GT1 & GT2....like making endurance races on a rally track or Rome Night...💡

 

[Sniffs]

*grin* i HAVE the track code for rome-night as part of my version of "pothole's headlights code". all you'd have to do is do the button press to turn on the lights before starting the enduro!

 

[AERO_HDT]

I'm in total agreeance with Parnelli about the WAY in which Gran Turismo was meant to be played. The thrill and the enjoyment of doing things the hard way, unlocking new cars, buying ones you're desperate for, winning races by the merest thread... that's the stuff of the game and that's the experience that the game designers intended us to have.

I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T cheat. If you really want to, that's fine, but the only person you're cheating is yourself and your missing out on the whole point of the game. Kinda like buying a book and reading the last page and throwing the rest away... The author went to all that effort and because you felt like you 'PAID' your dues with your $25, then that entitles you to a total disregard of the product's intentions. That's cool, but in my opinion, you just blew 25 bucks and would have been better off rolling up the bills and smoking them.

Hey, I paid $80 too for my white edition of GT4 the very hour it hit the shelves, I paid $100 for GT3 and I'd do so again, because the experiences I've had of playing this game from start to finish are irreplaceable memories that will live with me until the day I die. I'll probably dust off the PSX when i'm old and grey, pull out my original copy of Gran Turismo and try and do it all over again with withered, gnarled fingers and eyesight that's been whittled away by cataracts, hehe!

I started GT4 with a 1983 Civic 1500. I earned my stripes, I played my game, I clocked the little bugger. For those of you who waltzed in on cheat codes, I can't wait to see you online in GT5...

 

[Sniffs]

a little notification to cheat bashers.

1. some of us will never see a PS3...not until PS4 comes out.
2. i use mine to get through ultra-suck license tests more often
3. i still do stuff the hard way, thanks to purists like you who forget that some of us started gaming in the Pong/1 button era!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm in total agreeance with Parnelli about the WAY in which Gran Turismo was meant to be played. The thrill and the enjoyment of doing things the hard way, unlocking new cars, buying ones you're desperate for, winning races by the merest thread... that's the stuff of the game and that's the experience that the game designers intended us to have.

Yes, man.....well said, and welcome to GTP. There's definitely 2 kinds of players: enthusiasts who are fascinated by cars, to the point that they want everything this game has to offer and then some, and players who just want to get to the best parts of the game without the struggle.

Meanwhile, the struggle is (to me) the best part. It is the high you can achieve again and again. I would be totally bored with this game in a few weeks (like I get with many other games) if there wasn't any skill involved behind the prizes & moments of glory.

I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T cheat. If you really want to, that's fine, but the only person you're cheating is yourself and your missing out on the whole point of the game. Kinda like buying a book and reading the last page and throwing the rest away... The author went to all that effort and because you felt like you 'PAID' your dues with your $25, then that entitles you to a total disregard of the product's intentions. That's cool, but in my opinion, you just blew 25 bucks and would have been better off rolling up the bills and smoking them.

Interesting take. I never thought of it this way. 👍

What's up with some people paying $80 or $100 for Gran Turismo? Is it really that expensive in Australia (that's where I'm assuming you live..since it says "Melbourne").

 

[KAMKA-Z]

I gotta admit. When I first started GT3, I wanted it all open and open now. I even considered buying a memory card off Ebay with everything unlocked. Looking back, I'm glad I didn't. It's kind of funny to think back when I was struggling with my Miata in the early days. I almost feel like I cheated myself by transferring free credits from GT3 to GT4. . . Almost.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I gotta admit. When I first started GT3, I wanted it all open and open now. I even considered buying a memory card off Ebay with everything unlocked. Looking back, I'm glad I didn't. It's kind of funny to think back when I was struggling with my Miata in the early days. I almost feel like I cheated myself by transferring free credits from GT3 to GT4. . . Almost.

Well, some say transferring credits is cheating. I disagree. It's all about how you start the game. In other words, do you spend that $100,000 on a Viper and blow away the Sunday Cup? Or do you spend it on a Scion xB, slap some N3 tires on with a sport suspension & close tranny (as I did) and barely win?

Either way (whether you transfer or not) you'll still eventually hit that "wall". You still wind up with all those early-career decisions...some that work and some that don't work. Personally, I've started games with and without the extra money. That extra $100,000 seems like a lot to start things with, but I'm always surprised at how fast it gets spent.

 

[Open Addict]

......what's up with some people paying $80 or $100 for Gran turismo? Is it really that expensive in Australia (that's where i'm assuming you live..since it says "Melbourne").

I am in Australia, and yes when GT4 first came out it was priced between $85-100 australian dollars. At the time GT4 was released our aussie dollar was buying about 70c US. Now you can buy GT4 Platinum for around $20 Aussie dollars.

Being now the Aussie $ is hovering around 95c US. An example, for the PS3 in australia with GT5 Prologue is between $680-$700 Aussie dollars.

 

[AERO_HDT]

a little notification to cheat bashers.

1. some of us will never see a PS3...not until PS4 comes out.
2. i use mine to get through ultra-suck license tests more often
3. i still do stuff the hard way, thanks to purists like you who forget that some of us started gaming in the Pong/1 button era!

Yeah mate, I was playing then too. Don't forget PONG didn't have any buttons.

Hey look it's all cool if you can't afford a PS3. Hell I play my PS2 on a daily basis and I even dust off the old portable PSX with the LCD on occaision and fire up Gran Turismo or GT2 or even Colin 2. When the mood takes me I might even mess around with the original Tomb Raider or Syphon Filter.

I still play Doom 2.

I still pull out my Amiga once in a while and load Jaguar XJ220 and Eye of the Beholder.

I still have my C64 that I bought in 1985 and still have my Atari 2600 with River Raid.

All great games all great consoles and systems. I know about single button games. I grew up with them.

 

[Sniffs]

finally, someone who started in the dum-dum era, too!

unlike most players, I have trouble "getting" most games. turns out I needed glasses and have Dyspraxia...in an era where neither of them were recognised or appreciated. throw in hormones kicking in in the 8 bit era, and my brains went out the window

that mini rant is for modern gameplayers who started in the PSX/N64 era with complicated controlls, games, and controllers, and think the LONG way is the ONLY way.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

j

 

[AERO_HDT]

Great edit Parnelli! Think you might have gotten too overzealous with the 'delete' button....

 

[bergauk]

i corrupted my data this morning so i had to cheat to get it all back. too bad i didnt get to have another black inegra i got a ugly yellow one =/

 

[jinxtigr]

No Gameshark here, but I happily have Sparky (B-spec Bob) race Meisterschaft over and over to earn me money, or race for specific prize cars so I can play with them.

The deal is, I cannot drive a touring car, or race car, as well as Sparky (or the AI). Sometimes I've got a bit close, otherwise I just blow it. Gameshark could not change that for me, so I have a built-in challenge no matter what prize cars I have or what money I have. I could buy 10 Abt TTs and give them all different upgrades to the Nth degree and it still won't make me able to drive that car all that great- just too damned fast!

If I did have a Gameshark it would be ALL about just unlocking everything so I could drive it. There's lots of interesting cars I can't drive yet, and some I may never get to drive because I can't devote that kind of dedication to a game- by the time I got something like the Model T, we'd be playing GT8 on PS4s with hydraulic motion platforms, and why would I be still trying to win the Model T on a PS2 then?

But I don't want to drive that prize car THAT badly that I'll actually get a gameshark to do it... I do hope to get the Escudo sometime, though...

 

[Road Rash]

a little notification to cheat bashers.

1. some of us will never see a PS3...not until PS4 comes out.
2. i use mine to get through ultra-suck license tests more often
3. i still do stuff the hard way, thanks to purists like you who forget that some of us started gaming in the Pong/1 button era!

Yeeeeah you tell em dude!!!! Except I just got PS3 in March and love the crap out of it. But then I use it for more than just a gaming center. These purists also forget that the game itself cheats hardcore. If you don't beleive it go play a game wheer the cars actually drive around a corner instead of wanting to go straight no matter how much you turn the wheel and where you can put the car into theracing line no matter if its showroom or built. It always gets up my back side when mine is the only car not able to stay on the track I kept wondering what was up with me until I bought TOCA3. Since I have been able to play a boat load of other racing games and I swear GT3 and 4 are the only games that make cars that hard to control. In fact for those of us who know how powerful and wellbuilt cars really feel, it brings out the fakeness of the game. Don't get me wrong, I like GT4, its just not as realistic as some here would have you beleive. There are a few games outthere that nail the handling a lot better. Codemasters does a good job with that aspect as well as the feel of being in a race. I got Enthusia the other day and after a night with it I admit that the handling of production cars is a lot more realistic. The graphics in GT4 really are what make it worth playing, I don't mind racing production cars and earning money to buy others or win them and then race to earn money to soup them up. That part of the game is a blast, but when it cheats by making sure your car does not handle as well as the AI cars the majic subsides. Nothing like having a race car on the track with production cars and those productioon cars(AI) are glued to the track and following a perfect line in the groove(the patch of rubber in the curves from the tires burning off in the turn)and yours can barely stay on the trrack unless you slow so far down you can't catch back up.

 

[viperking1]

I cheated on my fat girlfriend a couple years back FOR gt4 but not ON GT4

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeeeeah you tell em dude!!!! Except I just got PS3 in March and love the crap out of it. But then I use it for more than just a gaming center. These purists also forget that the game itself cheats hardcore. If you don't beleive it go play a game wheer the cars actually drive around a corner instead of wanting to go straight no matter how much you turn the wheel and where you can put the car into theracing line no matter if its showroom or built.

I don't get it. You're apparently saying that because GT4 features more understeer, that the game "cheats itself hardcore?" I don't get what your point is supposed to be here.

It always gets up my back side when mine is the only car not able to stay on the track

Because you're not very good at the game yet. To stay within proper racing lines in GT4 requires lots of restraint.

I kept wondering what was up with me until I bought TOCA3. Since I have been able to play a boat load of other racing games and I swear GT3 and 4 are the only games that make cars that hard to control. In fact for those of us who know how powerful and wellbuilt cars really feel, it brings out the fakeness of the game.

...uhhh okay. So when real-life race drivers & car magazine reviewers say about GT4: "the only thing missing is getting snapped against your racing harness", you're saying they have no clue what they're talking about? Dude, cars in GT4 are hard to control maybe because real-life racing is not easy.

Don't get me wrong, I like GT4, its just not as realistic as some here would have you beleive. There are a few games outthere that nail the handling a lot better. Codemasters does a good job with that aspect as well as the feel of being in a race. I got Enthusia the other day and after a night with it I admit that the handling of production cars is a lot more realistic. The graphics in GT4 really are what make it worth playing, I don't mind racing production cars and earning money to buy others or win them and then race to earn money to soup them up. That part of the game is a blast, but when it cheats by making sure your car does not handle as well as the AI cars the majic subsides.

You're not as good as you think you are. But that's cool...it's your opinion. Enthusia is a good game, but in some ways it's inferior to GT.

Nothing like having a race car on the track with production cars and those productioon cars(AI) are glued to the track and following a perfect line in the groove(the patch of rubber in the curves from the tires burning off in the turn)and yours can barely stay on the trrack unless you slow so far down you can't catch back up.

Again, you just have to learn the physics of the game. No offense. The Ai is able to "stay glued to the track" because they know where the proper braking points are, they know how much throttle to give in corners before understeer shows up, etc etc.

 

[Sniffs]

Parnelli: ever been shoved off the road by a moron AI while you've slowed down to take the corner?

I've been playing Gran Turismos since I bought my PSX in 1998! I still have my original GT file as well.

parnelli, you are one of the few people I know of that actually praises the AI in the gran turismos. when I started playing 4, I noticed that the AI was given a few nascar tricks, mostly "rubbing", but was nearly the same as before.

I've finally conquered the nasty slid-ey sports tires on my part which kept me from placing anywhere near 4th on a "standard or Sport tires" race. but I'm getting the impression that almost everyone does only a minimum of chassis and suspension tuning so they don't lose any speed. I restrain the crap out of my cars so they STAY on the road themselves.

i think I've learned the physics and timing of the Gran Turismos, now...because I did it MY way, the way I learn. I have to, with a learning disability that makes things harder.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Parnelli: ever been shoved off the road by a moron AI while you've slowed down to take the corner?

Yes.

I've been playing Gran Turismos since I bought my PSX in 1998! I still have my original GT file as well.

parnelli, you are one of the few people I know of that actually praises the AI in the gran turismos. when I started playing 4, I noticed that the AI was given a few nascar tricks, mostly "rubbing", but was nearly the same as before.

I praise it in some ways and comdemn GT's Ai in others. It aint perfect. But to learn the game (in my opinion) you also have to learn how the Ai drives. After awhile, you'll be able to predict how they drive (good and bad) and you'll also be able to avoid them, or dance around them.

I've finally conquered the nasty slid-ey sports tires on my part which kept me from placing anywhere near 4th on a "standard or Sport tires" race. but I'm getting the impression that almost everyone does only a minimum of chassis and suspension tuning so they don't lose any speed. I restrain the crap out of my cars so they STAY on the road themselves.

Yeah, so do I. I restrain my cars, too. I only tune & apply the absolute parts I need to. Like I'll use a close-ratio transmission or a stock one long before I'll use a full-custom one.

i think I've learned the physics and timing of the Gran Turismos, now...because I did it MY way, the way I learn. I have to, with a learning disability that makes things harder.

Ah. I see.

 

[Road Rash]

I



Because you're not very good at the game yet. To stay within proper racing lines in gT4 requires lots of restraint.



...uhhh okay. So when real-life race drivers & car magazine reviewers say about GT4: "the only thing missing is getting snapped against your racing harness", you're saying they have no clue what they're talking about? Dude, cars in GT4 are hard to control maybe because real-life racing is not easy



QUOTE]

I know what I am talking about I know damn good and well racing is not easy,I've raced sports cars inthe production classes. And for a wet behind the ears rookie kid of 18 and 19 I think I did pretty darn good. When I was taught to drive I was taught by my uncle who taught me how to race...then drive the streets. IT wasa bad choice though as I scared the crap out of the dude who tested my driving for my liscence. That whole test I was saying to myself "slowwww keep it slowwwDanny...nice and easy.

Since then up until a back injury forcd me out of the work force I was building and driving hot rods and street racers, it was my hobby.

You don't builf fast cars to sissy foot them on the road, you drive out to the mountains and nail it once your positive your out of range of any cops. So I have real world experience myself. Gran Turismo's physics engine and AI are not what you and some others here would praise it to be. In fact last night with Enthusisa I must say those guys have nailed the physics of driving. I am impressed. That said as a game it lacks alot but we can't have it all. Thats why Ihave 13 different racing games.

When it comes to GT4 I now know how to keep the car in the groove and find the proper car for each race, and tune it as it needs. I also used the all cars free code to buy a bbunch ofthe Playstation race grand prix cars Parnelli I beleive and sell them to get enough cash to be able buy a few cars if need be to find the right one. I only get the TV to play with for the night hours between roughly 11:00PM to 6:00AM, and I try to get some sleep as well as other tasks in that time frame as well.That said the game still gives itself an edge the players don't have or can't even get. There are still games outthere that are more realistic.when it comes to the physics of a car, on pavement, being pushed to the limit to get the gold cup. TOCA3 is hard compared to GT4, you have to pay extra attention to what your doing and if you relax for moment your in the wall or the gravel. In fact I haven't made it as far in TOCA as Ihave in GT4. I don't gripe about it because I don't feel as though the game is giving itself an edge I don't have. Its AI will make rookie mistakes now and then letting you feel as though your on egual ground. Thats my point

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I



Because you're not very good at the game yet. To stay within proper racing lines in gT4 requires lots of restraint.



...uhhh okay. So when real-life race drivers & car magazine reviewers say about GT4: "the only thing missing is getting snapped against your racing harness", you're saying they have no clue what they're talking about? Dude, cars in GT4 are hard to control maybe because real-life racing is not easy



QUOTE]

I know what I am talking about I know damn good and well racing is not easy,I've raced sports cars inthe production classes. And for a wet behind the ears rookie kid of 18 and 19 I think I did pretty darn good. When I was taught to drive I was taught by my uncle who taught me how to race...then drive the streets. IT wasa bad choice though as I scared the crap out of the dude who tested my driving for my liscence. That whole test I was saying to myself "slowwww keep it slowwwDanny...nice and easy.

Since then up until a back injury forcd me out of the work force I was building and driving hot rods and street racers, it was my hobby.

You don't builf fast cars to sissy foot them on the road, you drive out to the mountains and nail it once your positive your out of range of any cops. So I have real world experience myself. Gran Turismo's physics engine and AI are not what you and some others here would praise it to be. In fact last night with Enthusisa I must say those guys have nailed the physics of driving. I am impressed. That said as a game it lacks alot but we can't have it all. Thats why Ihave 13 different racing games.

When it comes to GT4 I now know how to keep the car in the groove and find the proper car for each race, and tune it as it needs. I also used the all cars free code to buy a bbunch ofthe Playstation race grand prix cars Parnelli I beleive and sell them to get enough cash to be able buy a few cars if need be to find the right one. I only get the TV to play with for the night hours between roughly 11:00PM to 6:00AM, and I try to get some sleep as well as other tasks in that time frame as well.That said the game still gives itself an edge the players don't have or can't even get. There are still games outthere that are more realistic.when it comes to the physics of a car, on pavement, being pushed to the limit to get the gold cup. TOCA3 is hard compared to GT4, you have to pay extra attention to what your doing and if you relax for moment your in the wall or the gravel. In fact I haven't made it as far in TOCA as Ihave in GT4. I don't gripe about it because I don't feel as though the game is giving itself an edge I don't have. Its AI will make rookie mistakes now and then letting you feel as though your on egual ground. Thats my point

Uh huh, I see. I'm a tad confused, but my point is still valid: if you can't keep your car on the road (but the Ai can) you're not that good at the game yet. Maybe not you personally, but ...

....I think you see what I'm saying.


I'll agree with you about ToCA3, tho. I got it about a month ago. It's a whole different dimension since damage and weather are included As of yet, I haven't had the time to truly start ToCA properly, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Carbon_77]

I cheated for max Cr. and I did Infinite fuel, tires, and N20.

 

[AERO_HDT]

I'm in total agreeance with Parnelli about the AI. I find it very hard that after all these years, people can still find the AI difficult or unpredictable. The AI is the easiest part of Gran Turismo, yes a wee bit aggressive, but then again, so are the people who play the game.

Having an AI that trips you up occaisionally is part of the pleasure. I find it strange that people want everything their own way, AI that never blocks or never makes a mistake or (in some cases) AI that drives too well.

As for TOCA, well there are two things about TOCA that separate it from GT. Number one is damage and number two is the amount of cars that are on-track. The physics are certainly different, the graphics different, the gameplay different, but just wait until you're about 60 -70% through the game and watch the difficulty level go right through the roof....

I find the real pleasure of GT4 is now doing long 50 lap enduros in cars that are fitted with road tyres and like to have the AI setting at around 6 with a rather outclassed car. Trial Mountain in a Holden Commodore SS, or Laguna Seca in a '64 GTO or some other equally poor machine. The short 2 lappers or 5 lappers don't do it for me anymore. Too easy and too boring, no pitstops, no chance of seeing how far you can go on one set of tyres.