Gen 5 Dodge Viper

[CodeRedR51]

Holy ****

Correction: The car doesn't make any additional power/torque. Not sure why sites are reporting a power bump.

http://www.dodge.com/en/viper/

 

[CSLACR]

I hate these ****ing retards racing on SR84. I hear their obnoxious cars going by at WOT at 3am. And I hate that Pembroke Pines spanish accent.

And here I would wake up, go to the window and watch with glee. :/
Before you say it, I live beside a 4 lane highway, 1/8th of a mile uphill from a redlight. I hear engines and truck brakes all day/night long. Occasional loud exciting vehicles are watched with glee. I am 31 and married with 2 kids, and an early morning job. No excuses, I just love cars.

Vipers racing past would be so thrilling I don't know if I could handle it. Change my underpants for sure.

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, sure thing pal.

 

[CSLACR]

Yeah, sure thing pal.

Inconceivable?
Didn't mean to steal your thunder.

 

[Omnis]

Vipers racing past would be so thrilling I don't know if I could handle it. Change my underpants for sure.

Not thunder, just tmi.

 

[jergto]

This is still done with a regular 6 speed transmission. That is bad ass considering what all the hypercars use for transmissions.

Hope this car is a world beater yet again. Raise the bar and the others will follow, gotta love competition!

 

[andrea]

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Disappointing This is not what i wanted the New ACR to be guess dodge doesn't know any other design when it comes to the acr so they just repeat the same 👎

 

[Exorcet]

Disappointing This is not what i wanted the New ACR to be guess dodge doesn't know any other design when it comes to the acr so they just repeat the same 👎

Not sure what there is to be disappointed about. What else would a Viper ACR be exactly? This is a performance car, not a garage decoration. The base Viper already has 16 quadrillinty-billion customization options. If you want to make something look wild, the ACR is not the car you want.

 

[sems4arsenal]

This is still done with a regular 6 speed transmission. That is bad ass considering what all the hypercars use for transmissions.

Hope this car is a world beater yet again. Raise the bar and the others will follow, gotta love competition!

There is no doubt it will be, if there weren't for the trio of hyper cars it would probably be one of the fastest prodcution cars on several race tracks.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Not sure what there is to be disappointed about. What else would a Viper ACR be exactly? This is a performance car, not a garage decoration. The base Viper already has 16 quadrillinty-billion customization options. If you want to make something look wild, the ACR is not the car you want.

According to this, you can customize the ACR with those 16 quadrillinty-billion options as well.

 

[CSLACR]

The only disappointing thing about the ACR at all, for me, is that they never add power. Seeing a 707HP ACR come out would be even better than this 645hp ACR.

 

[Exorcet]

According to this, you can customize the ACR with those 16 quadrillinty-billion options as well.

The last line in my quote wasn't referring to color and such, as that has no impact on performance. From @Chikane's post I'm assuming the shape of the car was the source of disappointment. I'm legitimately confused as to why that would be given that the ACR has a very clear purpose

The only disappointing thing about the ACR at all, for me, is that they never add power. Seeing a 707HP ACR come out would be even better than this 645hp ACR.

Unless the 707 hp came with more weight. In that case I would much rather have 640. The Hellcat engine is supercharged and makes the land barge sized cars it's in front heavy ( they were front heavy to begin with, but still). I have a feeling that the Viper's V-10 is vastly superior outside of a drag strip.

This car doesn't really need anymore power and it would gain much, much more from reduced weight as the impact of downforce increases with reduced weight. At 2500 lbs, this car would have a real chance of being the fastest street legal production car ever. It's probably going to come in closer to 3200, and while you could match the acceleration of the 2500 lb car with a 900 hp engine, that wouldn't do anything for cornering.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand the appeal to go crazy with power when everything else is at extremes, but I'd much rather reduce the mass.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I have to say that I honestly don't think the ACR needs anymore power. 645 hp is enough at the moment; it just needs less weight and more handling to become something fierce on the race track.

 

[CSLACR]

I have to say, that I honestly don't think the ACR needs anymore power. 645 hp is enough at the moment; it just needs less weight and more handling to become something fierce on the race track.

The last line in my quote wasn't referring to color and such, as that has no impact on performance. From @Chikane's post I'm assuming the shape of the car was the source of disappointment. I'm legitimately confused as to why that would be given that the ACR has a very clear purpose



Unless the 707 hp came with more weight. In that case I would much rather have 640. The Hellcat engine is supercharged and makes the land barge sized cars it's in front heavy ( they were front heavy to begin with, but still). I have a feeling that the Viper's V-10 is vastly superior outside of a drag strip.

This car doesn't really need anymore power and it would gain much, much more from reduced weight as the impact of downforce increases with reduced weight. At 2500 lbs, this car would have a real chance of being the fastest street legal production car ever. It's probably going to come in closer to 3200, and while you could match the acceleration of the 2500 lb car with a 900 hp engine, that wouldn't do anything for cornering.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand the appeal to go crazy with power when everything else is at extremes, but I'd much rather reduce the mass.

I don't really see what your point is. Why would adding power add weight? I suppose a supercharger would add a little, but an 8.4 liter engine doesn't need boost to reach 700HP.
The drag video on last page shows pretty clearly that both more power, and significantly faster speed can be obtained on the engine without boost.

I would like to see around a 2800-3000lb curb weight, but I'd also like to see 700HP. 2500lb is a bit light/bouncy. My Cavalier weighs 2600 lbs, and that's bouncy.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't really see what your point is. Why would adding power add weight? I suppose a supercharger would add a little, but an 8.4 liter engine doesn't need boost to reach 700HP.
The drag video on last page shows pretty clearly that both more power, and significantly faster speed can be obtained on the engine without boost.

I thought the 707 hp reference might have been to the Hellcat engine, as it was an pretty specific value. My mistake then. However, more power tends to also require more cooling and stronger parts, which leads to drag and weight gain. This being a front engined car, a heavier engine also means less than ideal balance.

I would like to see around a 2800-3000lb curb weight, but I'd also like to see 700HP. 2500lb is a bit light/bouncy. My Cavalier weighs 2600 lbs, and that's bouncy.

That's the suspension (and possibly lift), not the weight. Weight loss on the ACR will only make it more planted, even over jumps.

 

[CSLACR]

I thought the 707 hp reference might have been to the Hellcat engine, as it was an pretty specific value. My mistake then. However, more power tends to also require more cooling and stronger parts, which leads to drag and weight gain. This being a front engine car, a heavier engine also means less than ideal balance.

707 is a reference to a Hellcat, but it doesn't mean to add weight to a Viper.

I'd be willing to bet the Viper in the aforementioned video is lighter than stock. (with significantly more power)
Regarding weight distribution, Vipers don't suffer there currently, with an 8.4 liter engine up front. I'm skeptical they need a heavier engine to make more power.

That's the suspension (and possibly lift), not the weight. Weight loss on the ACR will only make it more planted, even over jumps.

I disagree. The Nurburgring does too.

 

[Exorcet]

I'd be willing to bet the Viper in the aforementioned video is lighter than stock. (with significantly more power)
Regarding weight distribution, Vipers don't suffer there currently, with an 8.4 liter engine up front. I'm skeptical they need a heavier engine to make more power.

Surely more power could be had with an engine of that displacement, but at some point you will start eating into cooling and stress margins. Where that point is, I can't say without more knowledge on the car. Anyway, I'm not against more power, just stating that I think a weight loss should take priority. The only thing power will give you that weight won't is a higher top speed and this is a poor car for chasing after high top speeds anyway.

I disagree. The Nurburgring does too.

Physics disagrees with your disagreement. The weight by itself means nothing for stability. Gravity is a rate of acceleration, all things fall at 9.81 m/s^2 whether heavy or light unless they are acted upon by other forces. For a car, those forces would be aerodynamic and suspension forces. Setting your springs to the right spring rate to account for the weight of the car pretty much takes vehicle mass out of the equation there. On the aero side, it depends on whether your car produces positive or negative lift. The less mass, the larger impact a given aero force will have (F=ma). A light car that produces lift can leave the ground easily. A light car producing downforce will be stuck to the road.





No surprise that SUV's go flying while light cars with downforce don't.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Correction: The car doesn't make any additional power/torque. Not sure why sites are reporting a power bump.

http://www.dodge.com/en/viper/

Not a correction: that article is referring to the last-gen ACR, not the current car. It's a bit misleading, but not exactly incorrect.

Put me in the group that doesn't think it really needs more power either. Though, I am a bit surprised Dodge wouldn't eke out a few more just to trump the Z06 numbers.

 

[McLaren]

It's probably not pushing 700+ because the engineers don't believe it needs it; less is more considering this is a track car.

 

[CSLACR]

Surely more power could be had with an engine of that displacement, but at some point you will start eating into cooling and stress margins. Where that point is, I can't say without more knowledge on the car. Anyway, I'm not against more power, just stating that I think a weight loss should take priority. The only thing power will give you that weight won't is a higher top speed and this is a poor car for chasing after high top speeds anyway.


Physics disagrees with your disagreement. The weight by itself means nothing for stability. Gravity is a rate of acceleration, all things fall at 9.81 m/s^2 whether heavy or light unless they are acted upon by other forces. For a car, those forces would be aerodynamic and suspension forces. Setting your springs to the right spring rate to account for the weight of the car pretty much takes vehicle mass out of the equation there. On the aero side, it depends on whether your car produces positive or negative lift. The less mass, the larger impact a given aero force will have (F=ma). A light car that produces lift can leave the ground easily. A light car producing downforce will be stuck to the road.


No surprise that SUV's go flying while light cars with downforce don't.

Yes, cars with downforce don't fly as much. Of course nobody said anything about downforce, so this is as far out of the equation as "adding weight" at the mention of adding power.

I would like to hear why 3,000lb + cars dominate the Nurburgring production board though, and how come there aren't any prevalent 2,500lb car Nurburgring records.
4 cars under 651KG's in the top 20 (basically go-karts, that aren't truly comparable to regular road cars)
3 cars around 2,500lbs(1,150kg) in the top 20 (all 3 are over 2,600lbs though)
13 cars over 3,000 lbs.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

It's probably not pushing 700+ because the engineers don't believe it needs it; less is more considering this is a track car.

Then they made it worse than the previous generation.
I bet it doesn't run a slower lap time though, on a hunch that less isn't more.

 

[CSLACR]

oops

 

[Tornado]

Probably because barely anyone makes cars that weigh around 2500 pounds. Lots of companies make cars that weigh over 3000 though.

 

[Exorcet]

Yes, cars with downforce don't fly as much. Of course nobody said anything about downforce, so this is as far out of the equation as "adding weight" at the mention of adding power.

We were originally talking about the ACR though, a car that does very much have downforce:

That's the suspension (and possibly lift), not the weight. Weight loss on the ACR will only make it more planted, even over jumps.

I disagree. The Nurburgring does too.

You can't isolate the ACR from its downforce, especially because that is what makes my statement true.

I would like to hear why 3,000lb + cars dominate the Nurburgring production board though

As Tornado mentioned, cars average 3000+ lbs. Cars of that weight dominate the board because there are more of them.

Also note that the ratio of downforce to mass is the relevant stat for how much grip you get, not the mass itself. A heavy car with enough downforce will grip better than a light car without downforce, however take the heavy downforce car and reduce its mass and it will grip even better than its original form.

 

[psntomaz]

 

[CSLACR]

We were originally talking about the ACR though, a car that does very much have downforce:




You can't isolate the ACR from its downforce, especially because that is what makes my statement true.


As Tornado mentioned, cars average 3000+ lbs. Cars of that weight dominate the board because there are more of them.

Also note that the ratio of downforce to mass is the relevant stat for how much grip you get, not the mass itself. A heavy car with enough downforce will grip better than a light car without downforce, however take the heavy downforce car and reduce its mass and it will grip even better than its original form.

True facts. But why did the second car in your example lose the downforce? You noticed it real quick that mine was different, didn't you?
Both cars in the example should have ACR downforce, because they're both ACR's, in this case.

But I'm not going to argue whether or not light things lift off the ground easier than heavy ones, that's just plain stupid. Falling speed doesn't have diddly to do with it either.
@Tornado must have missed that phrase.

 

[McLaren]

Then they made it worse than the previous generation.
I bet it doesn't run a slower lap time though, on a hunch that less isn't more.

I don't think you fully understand what that term means, then. It doesn't need more power because it's not necessary. It achieves what it has to with the same power as before than more power.

Per a quote associated with Chapman:
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

 

[CSLACR]

I don't think you fully understand what that term means, then. It doesn't need more power because it's not necessary. It achieves what it has to with the same power as before than more power.

Per a quote associated with Chapman:
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

Like I said, but I don't think you fully understood it.
The previous ACR made 600HP, easily enough for most of you in this thread (by reading what you've said) to say, "It can't benefit from more power", yet they added 45 HP anyway.

I like that you pulled the "let's argue" trick too though. "Less weight is even better"!
Where in the hell did I ever suggest adding weight? Where the hell did I suggest reducing weight couldn't make a car faster than adding power? Oh I didn't????
Oh my god! that makes all these posts "educating" me on the importance of weight loss
a: Uncalled for
b: Stupid, and off-topic
c: Argumentative
D: All of the above

If you answered "D", you got it. 👍


Now if somebody can quote me actually suggesting they add weight to a Viper, or me suggesting that adding power is more important than reducing weight, it'd be great if you guys would stop shoving words in my mouth, and trying to argue with me about things I never said.
🤬 idiotic.

Original quote, that turned into people preaching weight to me:

The only disappointing thing about the ACR at all, for me, is that they never add power. Seeing a 707HP ACR come out would be even better than this 645hp ACR.

Oh look, not a word about weight.

Bye now.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot.
I wish they would add power to the Viper ACR!
(And you can't do 🤬 about it, no matter how unreasonably angry or argumentative that makes you)

 

[Exorcet]

OK. I think you're misreading things. I'll try to explain.

You originally posted a desire to see more power in the Viper, specifically mentioning 707 hp. I mistakenly thought you meant that you wanted to see a Hellcat power Viper, which I thought might be heavier and less suited for continuous track use. However you cleared that up in the following posts saying you wanted that power from the existing engine.

Now, while you said nothing about weight I brought it up in the following posts because adding power may indeed add weight to an engine. It doesn't necessarily have to, but it might. After that I said I'd prefer a weight loss over a power gain because it would achieve the same thing and then some. At no point were you attacked for expressing a desire to add power to the car, and at no point were words shoved in your mouth.

This is a thread discussing a car, all the posts were relevant and indeed on topic. Argumentative perhaps, but certainly not in a hostile sense.

 

[Tornado]

@Tornado must have missed that phrase.

You mean this phrase here, which is pretty clearly what I responded to?

I would like to hear why 3,000lb + cars dominate the Nurburgring production board though, and how come there aren't any prevalent 2,500lb car Nurburgring records.

Nope, I saw it. Sorry I couldn't give a response that fit in with the persecution complex you seem to be nursing.