General Tuning Guide (Updated 1.09)
- Thread starter DolHaus
- 631 comments
- 162,593 views
- 522
This 1.09 update destroyed my tunes 
I can't even describe how cars feels now. They're fast, but not safe, I can't finish Nurburgring at all now.
I can't even describe how cars feels now. They're fast, but not safe, I can't finish Nurburgring at all now.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Its difficult to pin down what 1.09 did in terms of physics changes, Toe has changed a little bit, rear heavy cars changed and RWD cars are slower than beforeThis 1.09 update destroyed my tunes
- 522
Are they overall slower or it's only with pre 1.09 tunes? I'm not great at tuning, I'm using these tunes from forum and then tweak them to suit my driving style, I had 16 perfectly balanced cars in garage, and now I'm crashing with all of them. Worst of all I have no idea what to change in setups because I can't describe how cars feels like now. They're kinda unsafe, I don't know, I can't push them hard as before 1.09.
Sorry for bad Engish.
Sorry for bad Engish.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
They are slower overall, the top speed and acceleration times are slightly worse than 1.08 in all RWD cars as far as I am aware. Its not a massive performance change but it does noticeably affect lap times, I believe amount of change is equal across all RWD vehicles to address the fact that they were faster than equivalent FF/4WD cars.
Try breaking the problem down for me so I can hopefully point you in the right direction.
Car/Track/Tyres:
General background information (different cars/tracks require different solutions)
Where are you encountering the problem?
Entry (Braking and initial turn in)
Mid (sustained steering input)
Exit (Trying to accelerate out of the corner)
Description of Symptoms:
eg.
Oversteer (car sliding around)
Understeer (Car won't turn properly)
What are you doing with the throttle/brakes/steering when encountering the problem?
Driving style (are you trying to cut curbs? etc.)
Your English is pretty good (far better than my Serbian anyway
) so just try and explain what is going on so we can work out what might need changing đź‘Ť
Try breaking the problem down for me so I can hopefully point you in the right direction.
Car/Track/Tyres:
General background information (different cars/tracks require different solutions)
Where are you encountering the problem?
Entry (Braking and initial turn in)
Mid (sustained steering input)
Exit (Trying to accelerate out of the corner)
Description of Symptoms:
eg.
Oversteer (car sliding around)
Understeer (Car won't turn properly)
What are you doing with the throttle/brakes/steering when encountering the problem?
Driving style (are you trying to cut curbs? etc.)
Your English is pretty good (far better than my Serbian anyway
) so just try and explain what is going on so we can work out what might need changing đź‘Ť
- 522
Thanks DolHaus:tup:
Main problem is steering response, even on straight it looks like there is a delay between flicking analog stick and actual response of the car. I haven't experienced that before, especially with M3 E92, damn that was sharp. Perfect cornering, no oversteer or little controled, now i need to steer earlier in order to take perfect turn in.
How can I get most direct steering?
As to first question I drive Nurburgring most time (or always), I'm not throttle control guy so LSD settings are pretty low, except braking value. I like cars to be responsive and direct and stable when cornering, but without huge oversteer.
Main problem is steering response, even on straight it looks like there is a delay between flicking analog stick and actual response of the car. I haven't experienced that before, especially with M3 E92, damn that was sharp. Perfect cornering, no oversteer or little controled, now i need to steer earlier in order to take perfect turn in.
How can I get most direct steering?
As to first question I drive Nurburgring most time (or always
), I'm not throttle control guy so LSD settings are pretty low, except braking value. I like cars to be responsive and direct and stable when cornering, but without huge oversteer.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Would you mind posting the tune? (either post it here or message it to me if you want to keep it private for what ever reason)Thanks DolHaus:tup:
Main problem is steering response, even on straight it looks like there is a delay between flicking analog stick and actual response of the car. I haven't experienced that before, especially with M3 E92, damn that was sharp. Perfect cornering, no oversteer or little controled, now i need to steer earlier in order to take perfect turn in.
How can I get most direct steering?
As to first question I drive Nurburgring most time (or always
It sounds a little bit like either a camber/toe related issue or possibly something to do with weight distribution and/or weight transfer but I can't be sure without seeing the numbers.
Another thing to check is that the TCS is off, I know it may sound stupid but I have noticed a few cars seem to revert back to ABS 5 when you leave a track since the 1.10 update. Always best to check the obvious things first đź‘Ť
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
Hi to you all, (this is posted as a request by @DolHaus ),I recently came to the conclusion that I needed to understand more aspects of tuning that I more or less took for granted. I’ve been using the tuning guides of @Motor City Hami, @praiano63, @DolHaus, and @Ridox2JZGTE, and all the info I could get my eyes on, but there were holes in using all these guides, at least for me. To fully understand all the components PD includes for tuning I would have to test them. So I decided to stop all tuning and start from the ground up. My current ongoing tests include, Steering Control Sensitivity, Tire grip comparison, Track grip comparison, Track top speeds ( used to adjust the transmission), wheels (inch up 1, inch up 2, standard), spring vs weight vs tires, and the subject of this post - BRAKES.
My idea for tuning brakes was to find the maximum brake power before the wheels lock up and use that, so I tried putting the brake balance at 10/10, Comfort Hard tires and go full speed on a straight line and hit the brakes full, the results, no wheel lockup. Went to check on the data logger using wheel speed, vehicle speed, and brake, no sign of the wheels locking up.
I then had a conversation with Ridox, : ”Another thing is brake balance, in GT6, each car has predetermined brake bias hidden inside the car parameter. So, if you run 0/0 brake balance on standard brakes, the front tire usually will lock up first ( no ABS ). I often run higher rear to give the car best possible rotation under braking without causing oversteer. The best method to set your own brake balance is to not use ABS, find a short track to drive on, like Tsukuba, and start from 0/0 or 1/1, brake on 1st turn.Make a note of how the ca handle under braking, stable ? twitchy ? understeers ? Make adjustments to your liking.
Once you find a good value on no ABS, use ABS 1, and brake again with the same value. You will notice differences on some cars, with ABS 1 you often find you will want to increase the BB value a bit, and can run a bit more higher rear before the car over rotates under braking.”
So I went and tried the ABS:0.For the tests shown below I was using the NSX Type R’92, I’ve only done the tests with Standard brakes on Comfort Hard/Medium tires so far. I’m also doing the same tests with the RX500, Skyline GTR ’02, Civic Type R’08 and the Challenger R/T ’70, with the 6 different street tires available, but I haven’t finished those yet.
The method I used to determine when the wheels lockup is as follows:
1-Track: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Brake balance 0/0
2-Manual Transmission set to 1st gear, after the start line and after the first curve , as soon as the road gets straight and that I’m at the max speed on 1st gear I hit the brakes using the square button on the PS3 controller and hold until my speed is at zero.
3-1st gear again, after the next curve, same procedure.
4-Still on the same straight, going to 2nd gear.
5-Still on the same straight, again on 2nd gear.
6-after the 3rd curve now up to 3rd gear.
7- after the 4th curve again at 3rd gear.
8-Cross the finish line and save.
9-Restart procedure using BB= 1/1, and so on.
Data logger
1- I check to see at what speed the vehicle is going when my front wheel gets to zero, (wheel lockup) , record the values
2-Same thing as above but with the rear wheel.
These are the results between the different tire types and different braking balance adjustments, all done with abs0. The line indicates at what speed the Front/Rear wheels lockup and skid.
Here's a little test with the camber's effect on braking, I was going to do different Front and Rear settings but I ran out of time (and patience), Just look at the original and F/R =7 (front and rear set to 7) The difference is small, but there is one.
This is a test I did with abs1, the yellow line is with a brake balance of 10/10, and blue line is with a balance of 1/1, I was pretty close at braking at the same time, notice how much faster you stop with the 10/10 setting.
This test is with abs1 (yellow) and abs0 (blue), what I did was find the maximum values I could put on the abs0 before the wheels would lockup (values were 4/5) and use those with abs1 after. I was pretty close for the braking point, the abs1 has a slight advantage, but you can't give any more braking power to the abs0, while there is more room to increase the abs1 thus giving it more braking power and a shorter braking distance.
Personal opinion on brakes:
1) From now on I will always tune with the abs at 0, it’s easier to see if something is not working right, every change you make to the suspension is less attenuated then when you use abs1. (my opinion is always open to change if I see that this is not the best way)
2) Abs1 in theory will let you do faster laps, it is very hard to lockup the wheels with it, you can put much more braking pressure to the wheels and get shorter braking distances without having the tires heat up, thus giving you more grip on acceleration. (I mention in theory because I'm sure there are some drivers out there who will drive faster with abs0, in science when there is no exception to a rule it becomes a law, thus this is a theory.)
3) With abs0, if you tune your brakes to say SH, and you are one notch away from the wheel lockup threshold, putting any tire with lower grip will result with the wheels locking up, thus your window for different tires is much smaller than with abs1, the best thing when tuning the brakes for abs0 and getting the best braking power is to do it for one type of tire, it will work for the higher grip tires but you will not have the best results with those.
4) I am not a pro/con abs0 or abs1, both have got their qualities and defaults, abs0 demands more attention to the braking zones, mistakes are less forgiven but the satisfaction of controlling something a little more wild is more gratifying. Abs1 will let you get away with murder, you’ll make faster laps and enjoy a beautiful sunday drive on race track. (you’ll have time to read the side boards in the curves on the tracks)
5) On certain tracks where you don’t have to really brake hard, you can set the abs0 one notch over the lockup threshold to get a little more braking bite, the tracks that come to my mind are Suzuka East, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring, Cape Ring Inside.
6) The reason I chose to find where the wheels lockup is it gives me the maximum braking power I can load to the Front/Rear wheels, once you have this you adjust the balance to suit your driving needs. Because of weight distribution, weight transfer and suspension settings you will never get the front and rear wheels to lockup at the same value, at 5/5 the front is working more than the rear.
7) Lastly, remember that I’m not the best tuner, driver and by no means a brake expert, I don’t even know how to change them on my car, but I know how to open my door and put gas in it. These are just tests to see how brakes seem to work in GT6, thats all.
I haven’t done any test with racing tires or racing brakes, maybe when I’m able to drive my Toyota 7 with consistent lap times I’ll will make an update with those figures.
Good day to you all
PS @DolHaus if you want me to edit anything just send me a PM, I'm leaving monday morning, so no rush
My idea for tuning brakes was to find the maximum brake power before the wheels lock up and use that, so I tried putting the brake balance at 10/10, Comfort Hard tires and go full speed on a straight line and hit the brakes full, the results, no wheel lockup. Went to check on the data logger using wheel speed, vehicle speed, and brake, no sign of the wheels locking up.
I then had a conversation with Ridox, : ”Another thing is brake balance, in GT6, each car has predetermined brake bias hidden inside the car parameter. So, if you run 0/0 brake balance on standard brakes, the front tire usually will lock up first ( no ABS ). I often run higher rear to give the car best possible rotation under braking without causing oversteer. The best method to set your own brake balance is to not use ABS, find a short track to drive on, like Tsukuba, and start from 0/0 or 1/1, brake on 1st turn.Make a note of how the ca handle under braking, stable ? twitchy ? understeers ? Make adjustments to your liking.
Once you find a good value on no ABS, use ABS 1, and brake again with the same value. You will notice differences on some cars, with ABS 1 you often find you will want to increase the BB value a bit, and can run a bit more higher rear before the car over rotates under braking.”
So I went and tried the ABS:0.For the tests shown below I was using the NSX Type R’92, I’ve only done the tests with Standard brakes on Comfort Hard/Medium tires so far. I’m also doing the same tests with the RX500, Skyline GTR ’02, Civic Type R’08 and the Challenger R/T ’70, with the 6 different street tires available, but I haven’t finished those yet.
The method I used to determine when the wheels lockup is as follows:
1-Track: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Brake balance 0/0
2-Manual Transmission set to 1st gear, after the start line and after the first curve , as soon as the road gets straight and that I’m at the max speed on 1st gear I hit the brakes using the square button on the PS3 controller and hold until my speed is at zero.
3-1st gear again, after the next curve, same procedure.
4-Still on the same straight, going to 2nd gear.
5-Still on the same straight, again on 2nd gear.
6-after the 3rd curve now up to 3rd gear.
7- after the 4th curve again at 3rd gear.
8-Cross the finish line and save.
9-Restart procedure using BB= 1/1, and so on.
Data logger
1- I check to see at what speed the vehicle is going when my front wheel gets to zero, (wheel lockup) , record the values
2-Same thing as above but with the rear wheel.
These are the results between the different tire types and different braking balance adjustments, all done with abs0. The line indicates at what speed the Front/Rear wheels lockup and skid.
Here's a little test with the camber's effect on braking, I was going to do different Front and Rear settings but I ran out of time (and patience), Just look at the original and F/R =7 (front and rear set to 7) The difference is small, but there is one.
This is a test I did with abs1, the yellow line is with a brake balance of 10/10, and blue line is with a balance of 1/1, I was pretty close at braking at the same time, notice how much faster you stop with the 10/10 setting.
This test is with abs1 (yellow) and abs0 (blue), what I did was find the maximum values I could put on the abs0 before the wheels would lockup (values were 4/5) and use those with abs1 after. I was pretty close for the braking point, the abs1 has a slight advantage, but you can't give any more braking power to the abs0, while there is more room to increase the abs1 thus giving it more braking power and a shorter braking distance.
Personal opinion on brakes:
1) From now on I will always tune with the abs at 0, it’s easier to see if something is not working right, every change you make to the suspension is less attenuated then when you use abs1. (my opinion is always open to change if I see that this is not the best way)
2) Abs1 in theory will let you do faster laps, it is very hard to lockup the wheels with it, you can put much more braking pressure to the wheels and get shorter braking distances without having the tires heat up, thus giving you more grip on acceleration. (I mention in theory because I'm sure there are some drivers out there who will drive faster with abs0, in science when there is no exception to a rule it becomes a law, thus this is a theory.)
3) With abs0, if you tune your brakes to say SH, and you are one notch away from the wheel lockup threshold, putting any tire with lower grip will result with the wheels locking up, thus your window for different tires is much smaller than with abs1, the best thing when tuning the brakes for abs0 and getting the best braking power is to do it for one type of tire, it will work for the higher grip tires but you will not have the best results with those.
4) I am not a pro/con abs0 or abs1, both have got their qualities and defaults, abs0 demands more attention to the braking zones, mistakes are less forgiven but the satisfaction of controlling something a little more wild is more gratifying. Abs1 will let you get away with murder, you’ll make faster laps and enjoy a beautiful sunday drive on race track. (you’ll have time to read the side boards in the curves on the tracks)
5) On certain tracks where you don’t have to really brake hard, you can set the abs0 one notch over the lockup threshold to get a little more braking bite, the tracks that come to my mind are Suzuka East, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring, Cape Ring Inside.
6) The reason I chose to find where the wheels lockup is it gives me the maximum braking power I can load to the Front/Rear wheels, once you have this you adjust the balance to suit your driving needs. Because of weight distribution, weight transfer and suspension settings you will never get the front and rear wheels to lockup at the same value, at 5/5 the front is working more than the rear.
7) Lastly, remember that I’m not the best tuner, driver and by no means a brake expert, I don’t even know how to change them on my car, but I know how to open my door and put gas in it. These are just tests to see how brakes seem to work in GT6, thats all.
I haven’t done any test with racing tires or racing brakes, maybe when I’m able to drive my Toyota 7 with consistent lap times I’ll will make an update with those figures.
Good day to you all
PS @DolHaus if you want me to edit anything just send me a PM, I'm leaving monday morning, so no rush
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
Great work @TurnLeft!👍Hi to you all, (this is posted as a request by @DolHaus ),I recently came to the conclusion that I needed to understand more aspects of tuning that I more or less took for granted. I’ve been using the tuning guides of @Motor City Hami, @praiano63, @DolHaus, and @Ridox2JZGTE, and all the info I could get my eyes on, but there were holes in using all these guides, at least for me. To fully understand all the components PD includes for tuning I would have to test them. So I decided to stop all tuning and start from the ground up. My current ongoing tests include, Steering Control Sensitivity, Tire grip comparison, Track grip comparison, Track top speeds ( used to adjust the transmission), wheels (inch up 1, inch up 2, standard), spring vs weight vs tires, and the subject of this post - BRAKES.
My idea for tuning brakes was to find the maximum brake power before the wheels lock up and use that, so I tried putting the brake balance at 10/10, Comfort Hard tires and go full speed on a straight line and hit the brakes full, the results, no wheel lockup. Went to check on the data logger using wheel speed, vehicle speed, and brake, no sign of the wheels locking up.
I then had a conversation with Ridox, : ”Another thing is brake balance, in GT6, each car has predetermined brake bias hidden inside the car parameter. So, if you run 0/0 brake balance on standard brakes, the front tire usually will lock up first ( no ABS ). I often run higher rear to give the car best possible rotation under braking without causing oversteer. The best method to set your own brake balance is to not use ABS, find a short track to drive on, like Tsukuba, and start from 0/0 or 1/1, brake on 1st turn.Make a note of how the ca handle under braking, stable ? twitchy ? understeers ? Make adjustments to your liking.
Once you find a good value on no ABS, use ABS 1, and brake again with the same value. You will notice differences on some cars, with ABS 1 you often find you will want to increase the BB value a bit, and can run a bit more higher rear before the car over rotates under braking.”
So I went and tried the ABS:0.For the tests shown below I was using the NSX Type R’92, I’ve only done the tests with Standard brakes on Comfort Hard/Medium tires so far. I’m also doing the same tests with the RX500, Skyline GTR ’02, Civic Type R’08 and the Challenger R/T ’70, with the 6 different street tires available, but I haven’t finished those yet.
The method I used to determine when the wheels lockup is as follows:
1-Track: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Brake balance 0/0
2-Manual Transmission set to 1st gear, after the start line and after the first curve , as soon as the road gets straight and that I’m at the max speed on 1st gear I hit the brakes using the square button on the PS3 controller and hold until my speed is at zero.
3-1st gear again, after the next curve, same procedure.
4-Still on the same straight, going to 2nd gear.
5-Still on the same straight, again on 2nd gear.
6-after the 3rd curve now up to 3rd gear.
7- after the 4th curve again at 3rd gear.
8-Cross the finish line and save.
9-Restart procedure using BB= 1/1, and so on.
Data logger
1- I check to see at what speed the vehicle is going when my front wheel gets to zero, (wheel lockup) , record the values
2-Same thing as above but with the rear wheel.
These are the results between the different tire types and different braking balance adjustments, all done with abs0. The line indicates at what speed the Front/Rear wheels lockup and skid.
View attachment 192813
View attachment 192817
View attachment 192821
Here's a little test with the camber's effect on braking, I was going to do different Front and Rear settings but I ran out of time (and patience), Just look at the original and F/R =7 (front and rear set to 7) The difference is small, but there is one.
View attachment 192827
This is a test I did with abs1, the yellow line is with a brake balance of 10/10, and blue line is with a balance of 1/1, I was pretty close at braking at the same time, notice how much faster you stop with the 10/10 setting.
View attachment 192835
This test is with abs1 (yellow) and abs0 (blue), what I did was find the maximum values I could put on the abs0 before the wheels would lockup (values were 4/5) and use those with abs1 after. I was pretty close for the braking point, the abs1 has a slight advantage, but you can't give any more braking power to the abs0, while there is more room to increase the abs1 thus giving it more braking power and a shorter braking distance.
View attachment 192843
Personal opinion on brakes:
1) From now on I will always tune with the abs at 0, it’s easier to see if something is not working right, every change you make to the suspension is less attenuated then when you use abs1. (my opinion is always open to change if I see that this is not the best way)
2) Abs1 in theory will let you do faster laps, it is very hard to lockup the wheels with it, you can put much more braking pressure to the wheels and get shorter braking distances without having the tires heat up, thus giving you more grip on acceleration. (I mention in theory because I'm sure there are some drivers out there who will drive faster with abs0, in science when there is no exception to a rule it becomes a law, thus this is a theory.)
3) With abs0, if you tune your brakes to say SH, and you are one notch away from the wheel lockup threshold, putting any tire with lower grip will result with the wheels locking up, thus your window for different tires is much smaller than with abs1, the best thing when tuning the brakes for abs0 and getting the best braking power is to do it for one type of tire, it will work for the higher grip tires but you will not have the best results with those.
4) I am not a pro/con abs0 or abs1, both have got their qualities and defaults, abs0 demands more attention to the braking zones, mistakes are less forgiven but the satisfaction of controlling something a little more wild is more gratifying. Abs1 will let you get away with murder, you’ll make faster laps and enjoy a beautiful sunday drive on race track. (you’ll have time to read the side boards in the curves on the tracks)
5) On certain tracks where you don’t have to really brake hard, you can set the abs0 one notch over the lockup threshold to get a little more braking bite, the tracks that come to my mind are Suzuka East, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring, Cape Ring Inside.
6) The reason I chose to find where the wheels lockup is it gives me the maximum braking power I can load to the Front/Rear wheels, once you have this you adjust the balance to suit your driving needs. Because of weight distribution, weight transfer and suspension settings you will never get the front and rear wheels to lockup at the same value, at 5/5 the front is working more than the rear.
7) Lastly, remember that I’m not the best tuner, driver and by no means a brake expert, I don’t even know how to change them on my car, but I know how to open my door and put gas in it. These are just tests to see how brakes seem to work in GT6, thats all.
I haven’t done any test with racing tires or racing brakes, maybe when I’m able to drive my Toyota 7 with consistent lap times I’ll will make an update with those figures.
Good day to you all
PS @DolHaus if you want me to edit anything just send me a PM, I'm leaving monday morning, so no rush
Loads of data there to digest. And very well presented too! I'm going to have to read through this again a few times when I'm more awake and make sure I take it all in.
Thanks for giving your time to help is all gain some more knowledge about the tuning physics.
PS. Nice addition @DolHaus, good idea:tup:
- 522
- 522
These are v1.05 tunes, Nurburgring time was 6:19.995. (actually, front Toe was -0.20)
I've changed today LSD settings, from 7/7/40 to 6/6/35 and I stiffened springs a bit
I think Toe makes biggest difference, I've tried also without ballast but it's not safe over bumps at high speeds. Is it possible that toe from -0.20 to -0.15 make such difference?
Currently best time is 6:22.000. It's not even that bad as I thought it would be, but it's slower, maybe i could manage 1 more second faster lap, and that would be overall 1 second difference between 1.05 and 1.09, but still I think it should be a bit safer at fast direction changes and high speeds over bumps, have you some suggestions?
I'm not using aero mods, and I'm driving with DS3.
Also, is physics again different with 1.10 update? I still haven't updated it to 1.10.
I've changed today LSD settings, from 7/7/40 to 6/6/35 and I stiffened springs a bit
I think Toe makes biggest difference, I've tried also without ballast but it's not safe over bumps at high speeds. Is it possible that toe from -0.20 to -0.15 make such difference?
Currently best time is 6:22.000. It's not even that bad as I thought it would be, but it's slower, maybe i could manage 1 more second faster lap, and that would be overall 1 second difference between 1.05 and 1.09, but still I think it should be a bit safer at fast direction changes and high speeds over bumps, have you some suggestions?
I'm not using aero mods, and I'm driving with DS3.
Also, is physics again different with 1.10 update? I still haven't updated it to 1.10.
Last edited:
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
There is no obvious physics change (that I've noticed) in 1.10 so you are safe in that regard.These are v1.05 tunes, Nurburgring time was 6:19.995. (actually, front Toe was -0.20)
I've changed today LSD settings, from 7/7/40 to 6/6/35 and I stiffened springs a bit
I think Toe makes biggest difference, I've tried also without ballast but it's not safe over bumps at high speeds. Is it possible that toe from -0.20 to -0.15 make such difference?
Currently best time is 6:22.000. It's not even that bad as I thought it would be, but it's slower, maybe i could manage 1 more second faster lap, and that would be overall 1 second difference between 1.05 and 1.09, but still I think it should be a bit safer at fast direction changes and high speeds over bumps, have you some suggestions?
I'm not using aero mods, and I'm driving with DS3.
Also, is physics again different with 1.10 update? I still haven't updated it to 1.10.
Toe settings can have a huge effect on how a car responds to inputs, if you think about how a car works it all boils down to the wheels and how they interact with the road. All suspension adjustments are basically changing this relationship in some form or another and the more direct the adjustment the more pronounced the effect. Toe and camber both directly change the way the wheel sits on the road and therefore changes can have instant and dramatic effects.
My initial thoughts on the tune would be that the springs may be too soft for the tyres. The more raw grip a tyre has, the stiffer the suspension needs to be to work them properly. Being super sticky means that they can hide a lot of flaws in a tune but these flaws can start to become more and more apparent as you get the car closer to the edge in terms of load, quite often a setup will work fine for the most part but when you really start putting a lot of force through it the flaws will start to appear.
This may be what is happening with your car, in the lower speed sections it is not showing any real problems because the raw grip of the tyres is capable of overcoming the excess amount of body movement and staying glued to the road but as you get into the faster sections where the amount of load on the tyres is dramatically increased, the body roll is starting to work against you. Basically your springs are too active at high speed/load and can't handle the extra amount of force that you generate when asking the car to change direction.
I would increase the spring rates personally, when doing this don't forget to lower the damper compression in order to stop the car becoming jittery and unable to react to the low speed/load stuff. Having stiffer springs means that you won't need as much resistance to compression as the springs are naturally harder to compress, you may need to increase your extension rates though.
The important thing to remember when setting your spring rates is to keep the relative stiffness the same between front and rear to avoid changing the balance of the car too much. If you look at the two blue bars in the middle of the spring adjustment section we can see that on your current setup your front springs are about 1/3rd stiffer than your rears, in order to maintain this you need to adjust them so this ratio is still present and the general balance of the car will remain unchanged.
Once you have your springs roughly in the right place then start adjusting your dampers, it is important here to not make massive changes to lots of different settings at once as you will only end up getting confused and will struggle to work out where the improvements are being made. If you change one set of parameters at a time you will have a much clearer picture of what is happening and where the advantages lie.
This is how I would approach the original problem of losing steering at high speed and generally make the car more responsive. Just how stiff you want to make the car is up to you really, play with a few variations and see what suits you best.
There are a few other areas where I think the car could be improved but we can move onto those at a later date if you would like. đź‘Ť
- 522
Ok thanks, I'll try some more changes tonight. đź‘Ť
- 522
100 attempts, 99 times crashed and one 6:21.125 lap
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Pretty much sums up why I don't use the Nurburgring for testing100 attempts, 99 times crashed and one 6:21.125 lap
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
Hi there mate, I was doing a test drive with the Challenger R/T '70 when something occurred to me regarding tuning with abs 0 or 1 (the car kept rocking and I was getting seasick), when you brake the weight transfers to the front, depending how hard you brake it should transfer a different amount, so lets say the highest brake pressure you can apply to the car with abs0 is 4/6 (got a skid just at the end of the braking line), and you use 8/10 for the abs1 (I did try this), you are applying more braking force to the abs1 setup and the front should receive more weight transfer on top of stopping earlier, so you would than need slightly stiffer springs to compensate for this, so this is just a thought but it may be better to tune the abs0 and abs1 separately, I've done a quick test but the results are not very conclusive, I wish PD would have include the values for Longitudinal G-Force, and for the Ride Height, it would have made life a hell lot more easier. So when I come back I'll try to get a little more data for this, in the meantime if you should test this I'd like to know what you have found.
Also speaking of ABS, why stop at 1, (I can count to 10 you know), it says in the game description "Adjust the sensitivity of the anti-lock braking system, which prevents the wheels from locking. When the slider is all the way to the left, ABS is switched off. The higher the number, the more of the available grip will be used for cornering rather than braking." quepasa? So if your running on the oval tracks will this give you an edge? Another freaking thing to test. (I will try this when I come back)
Take care my friend
This is the new style for riding in a Stratos
Also speaking of ABS, why stop at 1, (I can count to 10 you know), it says in the game description "Adjust the sensitivity of the anti-lock braking system, which prevents the wheels from locking. When the slider is all the way to the left, ABS is switched off. The higher the number, the more of the available grip will be used for cornering rather than braking." quepasa? So if your running on the oval tracks will this give you an edge? Another freaking thing to test
. (I will try this when I come back)Take care my friend
This is the new style for riding in a Stratos
- 522
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
Hi guys. I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet(Can't remember seeing it anywhere for sure....getting old) I'm sure it must have been, but I have noticed that a lot of my Transmissions have changed quite a bit since the 1.09 update. It was not something I thought to check at first, but having done so the numerical values are still the same but the ratios in comparison with each other are all over the place. In some cases this has been solely responsible for about 1.5-2 seconds loss a lap on certain tracks
Anyone noticed this or found any issues?
) I'm sure it must have been, but I have noticed that a lot of my Transmissions have changed quite a bit since the 1.09 update. It was not something I thought to check at first, but having done so the numerical values are still the same but the ratios in comparison with each other are all over the place. In some cases this has been solely responsible for about 1.5-2 seconds loss a lap on certain tracksAnyone noticed this or found any issues?
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Interesting idea, the way that ABS works as a kind of traction control system during braking means that there are probably exploits available in certain situations, sort of like using TCS2 on seasonal events to tidy up your exits in high power cars without compromising handling too much.Hi there mate, I was doing a test drive with the Challenger R/T '70 when something occurred to me regarding tuning with abs 0 or 1 (the car kept rocking and I was getting seasick), when you brake the weight transfers to the front, depending how hard you brake it should transfer a different amount, so lets say the highest brake pressure you can apply to the car with abs0 is 4/6 (got a skid just at the end of the braking line), and you use 8/10 for the abs1 (I did try this), you are applying more braking force to the abs1 setup and the front should receive more weight transfer on top of stopping earlier, so you would than need slightly stiffer springs to compensate for this, so this is just a thought but it may be better to tune the abs0 and abs1 separately, I've done a quick test but the results are not very conclusive, I wish PD would have include the values for Longitudinal G-Force, and for the Ride Height, it would have made life a hell lot more easier. So when I come back I'll try to get a little more data for this, in the meantime if you should test this I'd like to know what you have found.
Also speaking of ABS, why stop at 1, (I can count to 10 you know), it says in the game description "Adjust the sensitivity of the anti-lock braking system, which prevents the wheels from locking. When the slider is all the way to the left, ABS is switched off. The higher the number, the more of the available grip will be used for cornering rather than braking." quepasa? So if your running on the oval tracks will this give you an edge? Another freaking thing to test
Take care my friend
This is the new style for riding in a Stratos
View attachment 193833
There will obviously be an element of give and take, as you raise the ABS value you will reduce the maximum braking force exponentially but I expect a sweet spot could be found.
As for the weight transfer thing, yes there would be a difference in the speed and nature to the weight transfer. The difference would be fairly small unless there was a massive difference in the amount of braking force generated. If you think about the way the braking system is working, the car is using the longitudinal grip limits of the tyre as the fixed point of reference, the tyre can only take so much force acting on it before it slips regardless of how this force is applied. The brakes may well be able to generate forces in excess of this but if the tyre can't handle those forces then there is no real advantage to be gained, they wheels will lock or the ABS will release/dampen the braking force to reduce the load on the tyre and regain grip.
I have observed that you generally need to change dampers settings to adapt to the differing way the braking force is applied with ABS 0, the weight shift is slightly different and more sensitive to change going forward without the ABS balancing the brakes. Whether adjusting these settings to suit ABS 0 will gain any tangible and sweeping advantages or whether you are just fitting it to suit your preferred settings remains to be seen, my guess would be that it doesn't make enough of a difference to demand a turnaround in tuning technique.
Its a unique and fantastic track but it is really difficult to find real advantages when tuning a car for performance. The size of the course and the amount of opportunities for mistake is more of a test for the driver than the car. When looking for actual increases in speed, shorter circuits where achieving consistent laps is attainable are much better for seeing how the changes are affecting the car.Lol, I'll consider that
It's pretty hard to push car to the limit on that track.
Hi guys. I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet(Can't remember seeing it anywhere for sure....getting old
Anyone noticed this or found any issues?
I noticed when the RWD cars got nerfed (1.09) I was losing about 1.5-2 seconds over a 1:40 lap, the engine felt sluggish on the gearing but adjusting the final a few clicks seemed to give me some of the performance back. After a retune of the trans the engine felt less sluggish but the car was still ultimately slower
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
From a quick look at your tunes, it looks like you are using the traditional flip trick but using the same initial final of 5.000 no matter the pp of the car. Is that correct? What is your typical ratio for the gears from there?Hi guys. I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet(Can't remember seeing it anywhere for sure....getting old
Anyone noticed this or found any issues?
Ie
1st gear= all the way left (minimum 0%)
2nd gear= 20% of the available slider
Etc...
Is there a tune that you noticed the worst decrease? I can take a closer look tomorrow as I don't get to come out and play right now.
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
Just wanted to make sure you guys were aware
More or less, yes. I use the flip trick for most but it's not always 5.000, It really depends on the maximum value. I normally use about 0.500-0.750 below the maximum regardless of the pp.
As for the individual ratios, it really depends on what I want from the car. Most of the higher power cars tend to be set at 0%,20%40%.60%,80%,100%(6-speed box) but generally I set 6th gear for the top speed at 100% then set 1st gear for launch from standing. once these two are done I will work the remaining gears in incrementally.
The one I noticed it on the most was my Opera Performance S2K, round Laguna Seca. Pre 1.09 this was easily capable of low-mid 1:18s(Final gear set to 4.100) but post update I struggled to get under 1:20 with the same set-up. I've since gone back and updated the tune for my liking post 1.09 and am back to running easy low 1:18s.
Feel free to have a look over it if you want, your input is always welcome of course.đź‘Ť It's not causing me any issues now I've noticed it, I just wanted to highlight the changes I found in case others had not spotted it. It made too much of a difference in acceleration to ignore.
- 522
I've added aditional 27kg ballast, total that's 60kg at -50 position. Car feels more planted, stable, but it's obviously slightly slower.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Can you adjust the front down force on the 458? I find that cars with more down force at the rear are really prone to lifting the front end at speed and reducing steering ability, its why I try to avoid fitting aero parts unless the car has real stability problems
- 548
- Newport Beach, CA
- TurismoSlayer
- 522
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Yeah I remember you saying before.Nope, I'm not using aero mods, makes car ugly, so I'm trying to take best of it without these kind of mods
It could just be an aero imbalance at high speed, certainly sounds that way from the description of it getting less responsive at high speed.
The two ways you can try to combat this are by putting ballast in the front to rebalance the car (this can have a negative effect on the low speed handling) or try raising the rear spring rate and damper compression to stop the car squatting at the rear so much.
A way to test if the aero is affecting the cars balance would be to take it to Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Oval) and run a few laps trying to achieve the best top speed you can down the straights. Use the "Save Best Lap Replay" feature and use that in the Data Logger so you can observe the ride height data. You should see that the faster you are travelling, the lower the rear of the car is riding and the more the nose starts to lift. Using this data for a reference point will allow you to see how much effect the changes you are making to the springs/dampers are having on this particular problem. You may well find that you have to run the rear significantly stiffer in order to combat the effects of the stock down force
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- 522
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Yeah it can get a bit like that at times@DolHaus, thanks for the effort to help me. I'll try that in couple days cause at this moment I hate GT and don't want to play it anymore
Probably best to take some time away from it and return with a clear head, good decisions are rarely made in times of frustration đź‘Ť
- 548
- Newport Beach, CA
- TurismoSlayer
@DolHaus, in your opinion or experience can adjusting front and rear ride hight have an effect on aerodynamic balance even without adding aero parts? The in game aero adjusting description mentions this but I am wondering if the car in its natural body state can achieve the same result. I can check for myself also but thought you might have some wisdom on this. Thanks!
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
I have wondered about this for a while but can't think of a good way to test the effects accurately. I've heard reports that say if you are running the nose higher then the rear that you can lose speed when drafting, but other reports from Nascar guys who say they are getting better top speed with the nose up.
My thoughts on the matter would be very much dependent on how the aerodynamics are worked out in game and what the factors are that affect it. My guess would be that raising the nose a little bit won't effect the aerodynamic efficiency of the car but too much and its adds a noticeable amount of drag which will slow you down.
As for whether this would effect the amount of downforce produced, I'm really not sure. The general principal would be that the car body is acting sort of like an aeroplane wing so by raising the front you are creating a high pressure air system under the car and low pressure above which would cause lift. This would make the car "lighter" and easier to accelerate/decelerate as a result but less aerodynamically stable. You also run into the problem of not being able to control the amount of lift generated apart from the general assumption that the faster you are going the more lift you will generate.
Conversely, if you were to raise the rear of the car you could create a low pressure zone under the car and potentially cause a down force like effect but again it would be unpredictable at best. The main problem is that unlike an aeroplane wing a car is not shaped to handle various angles of attack and therefore the amount of drag generated would quickly outweigh any potential aerodynamic advantages.
This is all based on guess work really, these real life principals might not be represented at all in the game so I wouldn't expect results based on my speculation.
I will have a think about how this could be tested accurately though, could show some interesting results and shed some light on how aero is functioning within the game. I must admit that I'm not a fan of using aero on cars, nothing against it really it just doesn't suit my driving style and the type of cars that interest me.
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