General Tuning Guide (Updated 1.09)

[Thorin Cain]

Awesome! Thanks again 👍

EDIT: BTW, because I did the printer-friendly version on GoogleDocs, I thought I'd share a link to it. That way, if you feel printing it is something that people may want to do more often, you can include it on your OP.

LINK

Good Idea to do a printable version of this guide @aboe. And top man for sharing it with the community:tup:

 

[DolHaus]

Awesome! Thanks again 👍

EDIT: BTW, because I did the printer-friendly version on GoogleDocs, I thought I'd share a link to it. That way, if you feel printing it is something that people may want to do more often, you can include it on your OP.

LINK

Added to the OP, great job 👍

Really impressive and awesome guide. 👍

Thank you

 

[turismoslayer]

Definitely off topic sort of, and being that I value your insight @DolHaus and everyone else in this thread, I thought I would share here rather than to the masses in the general thread.

I think I've made a bit of a breakthrough if you will. I feel as if I conquered something, or really, I got something back that I haven't had in a really long time. Since GT3 long. My focus and consistency on track seem to have dramatically improved (or returned), as it once was in my GT3 days. Like a switch was turned on. I feel a sense of confidence driving the tracks, knowing the line, when to accelerate, when to brake, etc.

With this, and kudos to you and this discussion thread, I'm excited to implement your logic to creating great tunes and driving even faster. Thanks again for your time and efforts.

 

[Rooky Balboa]

Hi to you all, (this is posted as a request by @DolHaus ),I recently came to the conclusion that I needed to understand more aspects of tuning that I more or less took for granted. I’ve been using the tuning guides of @Motor City Hami, @praiano63, @DolHaus, and @Ridox2JZGTE, and all the info I could get my eyes on, but there were holes in using all these guides, at least for me. To fully understand all the components PD includes for tuning I would have to test them. So I decided to stop all tuning and start from the ground up. My current ongoing tests include, Steering Control Sensitivity, Tire grip comparison, Track grip comparison, Track top speeds ( used to adjust the transmission), wheels (inch up 1, inch up 2, standard), spring vs weight vs tires, and the subject of this post - BRAKES.

My idea for tuning brakes was to find the maximum brake power before the wheels lock up and use that, so I tried putting the brake balance at 10/10, Comfort Hard tires and go full speed on a straight line and hit the brakes full, the results, no wheel lockup. Went to check on the data logger using wheel speed, vehicle speed, and brake, no sign of the wheels locking up.

I then had a conversation with Ridox, : ”Another thing is brake balance, in GT6, each car has predetermined brake bias hidden inside the car parameter. So, if you run 0/0 brake balance on standard brakes, the front tire usually will lock up first ( no ABS ). I often run higher rear to give the car best possible rotation under braking without causing oversteer. The best method to set your own brake balance is to not use ABS, find a short track to drive on, like Tsukuba, and start from 0/0 or 1/1, brake on 1st turn.Make a note of how the ca handle under braking, stable ? twitchy ? understeers ? Make adjustments to your liking.

Once you find a good value on no ABS, use ABS 1, and brake again with the same value. You will notice differences on some cars, with ABS 1 you often find you will want to increase the BB value a bit, and can run a bit more higher rear before the car over rotates under braking.”

So I went and tried the ABS:0.For the tests shown below I was using the NSX Type R’92, I’ve only done the tests with Standard brakes on Comfort Hard/Medium tires so far. I’m also doing the same tests with the RX500, Skyline GTR ’02, Civic Type R’08 and the Challenger R/T ’70, with the 6 different street tires available, but I haven’t finished those yet.

The method I used to determine when the wheels lockup is as follows:
1-Track: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Brake balance 0/0
2-Manual Transmission set to 1st gear, after the start line and after the first curve , as soon as the road gets straight and that I’m at the max speed on 1st gear I hit the brakes using the square button on the PS3 controller and hold until my speed is at zero.
3-1st gear again, after the next curve, same procedure.
4-Still on the same straight, going to 2nd gear.
5-Still on the same straight, again on 2nd gear.
6-after the 3rd curve now up to 3rd gear.
7- after the 4th curve again at 3rd gear.
8-Cross the finish line and save.
9-Restart procedure using BB= 1/1, and so on.

Data logger
1- I check to see at what speed the vehicle is going when my front wheel gets to zero, (wheel lockup) , record the values
2-Same thing as above but with the rear wheel.

These are the results between the different tire types and different braking balance adjustments, all done with abs0. The line indicates at what speed the Front/Rear wheels lockup and skid.


View attachment 192813

View attachment 192817
View attachment 192821

Here's a little test with the camber's effect on braking, I was going to do different Front and Rear settings but I ran out of time (and patience), Just look at the original and F/R =7 (front and rear set to 7) The difference is small, but there is one.

View attachment 192827

This is a test I did with abs1, the yellow line is with a brake balance of 10/10, and blue line is with a balance of 1/1, I was pretty close at braking at the same time, notice how much faster you stop with the 10/10 setting.
View attachment 192835

This test is with abs1 (yellow) and abs0 (blue), what I did was find the maximum values I could put on the abs0 before the wheels would lockup (values were 4/5) and use those with abs1 after. I was pretty close for the braking point, the abs1 has a slight advantage, but you can't give any more braking power to the abs0, while there is more room to increase the abs1 thus giving it more braking power and a shorter braking distance.
View attachment 192843

Personal opinion on brakes:

1) From now on I will always tune with the abs at 0, it’s easier to see if something is not working right, every change you make to the suspension is less attenuated then when you use abs1. (my opinion is always open to change if I see that this is not the best way)

2) Abs1 in theory will let you do faster laps, it is very hard to lockup the wheels with it, you can put much more braking pressure to the wheels and get shorter braking distances without having the tires heat up, thus giving you more grip on acceleration. (I mention in theory because I'm sure there are some drivers out there who will drive faster with abs0, in science when there is no exception to a rule it becomes a law, thus this is a theory.)

3) With abs0, if you tune your brakes to say SH, and you are one notch away from the wheel lockup threshold, putting any tire with lower grip will result with the wheels locking up, thus your window for different tires is much smaller than with abs1, the best thing when tuning the brakes for abs0 and getting the best braking power is to do it for one type of tire, it will work for the higher grip tires but you will not have the best results with those.

4) I am not a pro/con abs0 or abs1, both have got their qualities and defaults, abs0 demands more attention to the braking zones, mistakes are less forgiven but the satisfaction of controlling something a little more wild is more gratifying. Abs1 will let you get away with murder, you’ll make faster laps and enjoy a beautiful sunday drive on race track. (you’ll have time to read the side boards in the curves on the tracks)

5) On certain tracks where you don’t have to really brake hard, you can set the abs0 one notch over the lockup threshold to get a little more braking bite, the tracks that come to my mind are Suzuka East, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring, Cape Ring Inside.

6) The reason I chose to find where the wheels lockup is it gives me the maximum braking power I can load to the Front/Rear wheels, once you have this you adjust the balance to suit your driving needs. Because of weight distribution, weight transfer and suspension settings you will never get the front and rear wheels to lockup at the same value, at 5/5 the front is working more than the rear.

7) Lastly, remember that I’m not the best tuner, driver and by no means a brake expert, I don’t even know how to change them on my car, but I know how to open my door and put gas in it. These are just tests to see how brakes seem to work in GT6, thats all.

I haven’t done any test with racing tires or racing brakes, maybe when I’m able to drive my Toyota 7 with consistent lap times I’ll will make an update with those figures.

Good day to you all
PS @DolHaus if you want me to edit anything just send me a PM, I'm leaving monday morning, so no rush

@DolHaus where do you get the screen you show above that gives left / right wheel speed etc?

I can't find this in any of the in game options?? I'm sure it's just I'm not looking in the right place...

Also, I've read all your guidance notes on LSD, which have been a great help for me so far.

However could you talk me through what affect different initial settings will have on car handling when running low accel / high decel settings?

Would setting initial somewhere half way between the two help with a more even transition?

Or should I set the initial equal to the low accel setting so to keep this working as intended, and then if need be increase the decel setting yet further to make up for it's affect being reduced from the low initial setting?

I've been tuning a few unstable cars recently, and found a high decel is a good way of keeping the back end straight braking into a corner without affecting the mid to exit turning ability of the car.

Many thanks for your help, and many thanks also for posting your guide.
Putting this stuff in the public domain always opens you up for potential critism from others, but I for one can say it's been very helpful for me, and from what I can see you have been a lot more informative and productive at helping others than any of your doubters have been.

So keep the Faith!!

 

[TurnLeft]

@DolHaus where do you get the screen you show above that gives left / right wheel speed etc?

I can't find this in any of the in game options?? I'm sure it's just I'm not looking in the right place...

Also, I've read all your guidance notes on LSD, which have been a great help for me so far.

However could you talk me through what affect different initial settings will have on car handling when running low accel / high decel settings?

Would setting initial somewhere half way between the two help with a more even transition?

Or should I set the initial equal to the low accel setting so to keep this working as intended, and then if need be increase the decel setting yet further to make up for it's affect being reduced from the low initial setting?

I've been tuning a few unstable cars recently, and found a high decel is a good way of keeping the back end straight braking into a corner without affecting the mid to exit turning ability of the car.

Many thanks for your help, and many thanks also for posting your guide.
Putting this stuff in the public domain always opens you up for potential critism from others, but I for one can say it's been very helpful for me, and from what I can see you have been a lot more informative and productive at helping others than any of your doubters have been.

So keep the Faith!!

The screen shots come from the data logger which you'll find on your opening page completely on your left, 2nd one down. I used an I-pad to take the picture of the screen. In the Data Logger you have 4 choices of info you can choose to visualize your data, - Preset - Set 1 - Set 2 - Set 3, you can customize the sets 1,2,3. You will have to save a best lap from a track before hand. There's also this thread that might help you:Data Logger - what uses have people found?
, hope this helps you.

 

[Rooky Balboa]

The screen shots come from the data logger which you'll find on your opening page completely on your left, 2nd one down. I used an I-pad to take the picture of the screen. In the Data Logger you have 4 choices of info you can choose to visualize your data, - Preset - Set 1 - Set 2 - Set 3, you can customize the sets 1,2,3. You will have to save a best lap from a track before hand. There's also this thread that might help you:Data Logger - what uses have people found?
, hope this helps you.

Lovely - thank you. That's going to be very helpful!

 

[DolHaus]

@DolHaus where do you get the screen you show above that gives left / right wheel speed etc?

I can't find this in any of the in game options?? I'm sure it's just I'm not looking in the right place...

Also, I've read all your guidance notes on LSD, which have been a great help for me so far.

However could you talk me through what affect different initial settings will have on car handling when running low accel / high decel settings?

Would setting initial somewhere half way between the two help with a more even transition?

Or should I set the initial equal to the low accel setting so to keep this working as intended, and then if need be increase the decel setting yet further to make up for it's affect being reduced from the low initial setting?

I've been tuning a few unstable cars recently, and found a high decel is a good way of keeping the back end straight braking into a corner without affecting the mid to exit turning ability of the car.

Many thanks for your help, and many thanks also for posting your guide.
Putting this stuff in the public domain always opens you up for potential critism from others, but I for one can say it's been very helpful for me, and from what I can see you have been a lot more informative and productive at helping others than any of your doubters have been.

So keep the Faith!!

To see the wheel speed data you need to set a fast lap and then 'Save best lap data'. Once this is done, exit back to the main menu and go to the 'Data Logger'. Load your lap up and the data will be on display in one of the tabs (if not you can set it by changing what data is displayed). 👍


The Initial should always be the lowest or equal lowest setting because it is a pre-load setting. The LSD works and changes function depending on how much load is being delivered by the engine or the brakes, the Initial being a pre-load means that it sets a constant amount of load on the LSD at all times and therefore means that anything set numerically below it will not count.

The LSD settings affect how much of a speed differential is possible between the left and right wheels, the lower the number is set, the higher the speed differential can be. The higher the speed differential between the wheels, the easier it is to rotate the car (the outside wheel has to travel further than the inside wheel during cornering and therefore needs to be able to rotate faster to cover the larger distance in the same amount of time.)

Setting the LSD is a matter of balancing the drive wheels to allow the maximum amount of rotation whilst maintaining stability and efficiency of power delivery.

The Accel settings come into effect when accelerating out of a corner, the lower they are the easier it will be to rotate the car while on the gas but the less efficient power delivery will be, the higher they are the more efficient power delivery will be but the car will be more difficult to rotate under power.

The Decel setting has much the same function but comes into effect while braking, the lower the setting the easier the car is to rotate under braking but you may encounter instability, the higher it is the more stable the car will be under braking but it may start to understeer and prevent rotation.

These two setting are independent of each other, changing the setting of one will have no effect on the other.

The common link between them is the Initial. Because the Initial is controlling the maximum amount of differential speed it affects how smooth the transition will be between Accel/Neutral/Decel phases will be. The larger the numerical difference between Initial and Accel/Decel settings, the harsher and more violent the transition will be.

To illustrate this lets say we have the Initial set at 5 (min) and the Accel set at 60 (max) in a rear wheel drive car. When driving down the straight under full throttle the wheels are spinning at the same speed, we enter a long fast corner still under full throttle. Because of the high Accel the wheels are still spinning at identical speeds and this begins to cause understeer so we lift off the throttle, when we do so we transfer from Accel to Initial setting. Because there is a massive difference in set values, the loaded outside wheel will suddenly be able to rotate a lot faster. This will have an effect similar to stepping on an unseen patch of ice while walking down a steep hill, it will suddenly accelerate faster than you can react and will break traction before you know what's going on.

Basically, the lower the amount of difference between Initial and Accel/Decel settings the smoother the transition will be, the larger the amount the more aggressive the transition will be. There is no right or wrong approach to it really, it depends on the car and the setup as to how you should approach the LSD.

Hope that helps, feel free to ask further questions if you don't quite get it or I have not explained well enough, the basic principals are quite simple but difficult to put into words 👍

 

[Rooky Balboa]

👍

To see the wheel speed data you need to set a fast lap and then 'Save best lap data'. Once this is done, exit back to the main menu and go to the 'Data Logger'. Load your lap up and the data will be on display in one of the tabs (if not you can set it by changing what data is displayed). 👍


The Initial should always be the lowest or equal lowest setting because it is a pre-load setting. The LSD works and changes function depending on how much load is being delivered by the engine or the brakes, the Initial being a pre-load means that it sets a constant amount of load on the LSD at all times and therefore means that anything set numerically below it will not count.

The LSD settings affect how much of a speed differential is possible between the left and right wheels, the lower the number is set, the higher the speed differential can be. The higher the speed differential between the wheels, the easier it is to rotate the car (the outside wheel has to travel further than the inside wheel during cornering and therefore needs to be able to rotate faster to cover the larger distance in the same amount of time.)

Setting the LSD is a matter of balancing the drive wheels to allow the maximum amount of rotation whilst maintaining stability and efficiency of power delivery.

The Accel settings come into effect when accelerating out of a corner, the lower they are the easier it will be to rotate the car while on the gas but the less efficient power delivery will be, the higher they are the more efficient power delivery will be but the car will be more difficult to rotate under power.

The Decel setting has much the same function but comes into effect while braking, the lower the setting the easier the car is to rotate under braking but you may encounter instability, the higher it is the more stable the car will be under braking but it may start to understeer and prevent rotation.

These two setting are independent of each other, changing the setting of one will have no effect on the other.

The common link between them is the Initial. Because the Initial is controlling the maximum amount of differential speed it affects how smooth the transition will be between Accel/Neutral/Decel phases will be. The larger the numerical difference between Initial and Accel/Decel settings, the harsher and more violent the transition will be.

To illustrate this lets say we have the Initial set at 5 (min) and the Accel set at 60 (max) in a rear wheel drive car. When driving down the straight under full throttle the wheels are spinning at the same speed, we enter a long fast corner still under full throttle. Because of the high Accel the wheels are still spinning at identical speeds and this begins to cause understeer so we lift off the throttle, when we do so we transfer from Accel to Initial setting. Because there is a massive difference in set values, the loaded outside wheel will suddenly be able to rotate a lot faster. This will have an effect similar to stepping on an unseen patch of ice while walking down a steep hill, it will suddenly accelerate faster than you can react and will break traction before you know what's going on.

Basically, the lower the amount of difference between Initial and Accel/Decel settings the smoother the transition will be, the larger the amount the more aggressive the transition will be. There is no right or wrong approach to it really, it depends on the car and the setup as to how you should approach the LSD.

Hope that helps, feel free to ask further questions if you don't quite get it or I have not explained well enough, the basic principals are quite simple but difficult to put into words 👍

Yeah I think I get it now, thanks! 👍

 

[zero4567]

This was very useful for some tuning I was doing to some of my cars especially with the LSD tuning (I had no idea whatsoever how to tune that but now I have a general idea of it and have put that new knowledge to good use). Thank you for putting this up!

 

[DolHaus]

This was very useful for some tuning I was doing to some of my cars especially with the LSD tuning (I had no idea whatsoever how to tune that but now I have a general idea of it and have put that new knowledge to good use). Thank you for putting this up!

No problem, glad it helped 👍
A general idea of what to do is all you need, the rest just comes down to experience

 

[zero4567]

No problem, glad it helped 👍
A general idea of what to do is all you need, the rest just comes down to experience

This tuning guide actually helped with a few car remakes from the Tokyo Xtreme Racer series (I got my NA2 NSX to run great at the 500PP cut off, detuned it to around 485 and the LSD tuning helped a bunch because I can handle it greatly on the new track). I also got a S2000 to become a MONSTER when it's running Sports Soft tires.

 

[uncle_pollo]

I was doing the IA races today. Before that I practiced tuning the viper a bit. Tail happy quick and dirty tune ups for the actual races, but following the guidelines. New traacks to me but I got some done. For the races I prioritzed stability. It worked!

 

[uncle_pollo]

Lsd tunning is more critical than in gt4. I had my s2000 going oversteering tremendoulsly on fast corners. Somehow I set it on 60 initial acc. Put everything on 40 and it settled down.quick and dirty ..

 

[DolHaus]

Lsd tunning is more critical than in gt4. I had my s2000 going oversteering tremendoulsly on fast corners. Somehow I set it on 60 initial acc. Put everything on 40 and it settled down.quick and dirty ..

The physics and tuning engine underwent a massive overhaul in GT5, GT6 uses a tweaked version of this same engine.
All elements are more critical than before, every car is unique and there aren't really any quick fixes any more

 

[uncle_pollo]

I know but I have little time to be optimum.

Yes ... every car feels very different

 

[zero4567]

Now I'm working on a remake of a real life M5 used for track racing (that most people deem "ricy" due to the rear but it's a TRACK car), the Y's factory M5. So far I've gotten the car to to run lap times between 56 seconds and 55 seconds (Edited forgot to mention the track was Tsukuba)

May just have to start working on more of these...

 

[F1Racer68]

@DolHaus - First, I want to say thanks for putting the time and effort into the guide and sharing your knowledge. I have referenced this post fairly frequently along with @Motor City Hami 's tuning guide. Both of you have given a great deal of time to the community and provided excellent guidance for new tuners as well as experienced ones.

There is one thing I feel needs to be addressed however in regards to tuning, and that is the understanding that the community as a whole has regarding Dampers. There is a very common misrepresentation of dampers within the GT community in that they are almost always referred to as "Soft" or "Hard". This is not correct and simplifying it to this terminology will cause new tuners in particular to struggle with understanding how dampers affect weight transfer in the game.

In GT6 in particular, the main component of the physics is weight transfer. Managing and controlling weight transfer is what tuning is all about. In order to better understand how our tuning changes affect the weight transfer of the car we need to properly understand dampers. The proper terminology for dampers should in fact be "Fast" and "Slow".

In GT6 the dampers and settings work as follows:

• Low number = FAST (commonly called soft)
• High numbers = SLOW (commonly called hard)

So what's the significance of the terminology? It's simple. Dampers are NOT springs. They do not exert any force unless they are in motion and the force they do exert is resistance. Dampers are designed to control and limit the movements of the springs in order to dampen or stop vibrations. Without dampers on a car the wheel and car would continue to bounce after every bump much like the old horse drawn carriages did.

So what is a damper? A damper is simply a piston shaft inside a single or double walled cylinder filled with oil. As the piston is moved into the cylinder (compression) the oil resists the movement controlling the speed of the shaft. As the piston is pulled out of the cylinder (extension) the oil again resist the movement and controls the speed of the shaft. See the diagram below:

Note that nowhere in the diagram do we see a spring, or any other mechanism providing a lifting or extending effect. A damper connect to the cars chassis at the top and the wheel (A-Arm, or axle) at the bottom and is moved in and out by the movement of the wheel in relation to the chassis. As the wheel moves up due to a bump the damper is compressed. As the wheel is moved down by the spring the damper is extended.

By adjusting the speed of the dampers, we control how easily the piston can move through the oil. This is done by opening or closing valves within the damper that allow the oil to be "pushed" out of the way more easily, or to not be pushed as easily. For tuning purposes we need to consider the effects this has:

• Fast compression (low number) - allows damper to compress quickly, which means weight can transfer to that part of the car quickly
• Slow Compression (high number) - compression is slowed, which means weight transfer to that part of the car is slowed down
• Fast Extension (low number) - Damper is allowed to extend quickly from a compressed or neutral state allowing weight to be moved away from that part of the car quickly
• Slow Extension (high number) - Damper is prevented from extending, which means weight is held over that part of the car for a longer period

Understanding the impacts of the dampers on weight transfer is key in order to address many aspects of the tune. Weight transfer happens during braking, turning and accelerating. Controlling that weight transfer will provide you with a far better handling car.

Don't forget though that this is only one element of the suspension and the dampers must be tuned in conjunction with the springs and anti-roll bars. They all go hand in hand.

Once again, I want to thank you for your efforts. I hope that you do not take this post as criticism in any way as that is not the intent.

 

[Thorin Cain]

Very well explained sir:tup:

 

[b1rdy01]

very informative, not to technical, time to put it to use on my cars. Thanks for taking the time to explain it all

 

[b1rdy01]

Hi I wondered if you have a tune for light company car ? Its doing my head in totaly

 

[DolHaus]

Hi I wondered if you have a tune for light company car ? Its doing my head in totaly

I will have a look when I can find the time, what spec do you want it tuned to (tyres/PP/etc)?

 

[b1rdy01]

pretty much std >533pp 179bhp low rpm turbo, racing hard tyres, its for a series of one make i am in but I always struggle. Any help is appreciated thank you

 

[DolHaus]

pretty much std >533pp 179bhp low rpm turbo, racing hard tyres, its for a series of one make i am in but I always struggle. Any help is appreciated thank you

Up to 533pp? Is the Low RPM turbo mandatory or can I mess around with the parts to bring it up to 533?

 

[b1rdy01]

I am afraid its mandatory, I have questioned it ... its for close racing lol that I am not close at lol

 

[DolHaus]

I am afraid its mandatory, I have questioned it ... its for close racing lol that I am not close at lol

Ahh ok fair enough, I'll see what I can do with it. A turbo wouldn't be my first choice of upgrade on a lightweight, the turbo always comes with a bunch of extra torque that just isn't helpful for anything except making wheelspin on corner exit when the car doesn't have much weight pushing down on the rear tyres.
Do you have a link to the race series thread? It will just give me something to reference when building the car 👍

 

[b1rdy01]

Ahh ok fair enough, I'll see what I can do with it. A turbo wouldn't be my first choice of upgrade on a lightweight, the turbo always comes with a bunch of extra torque that just isn't helpful for anything except making wheelspin on corner exit when the car doesn't have much weight pushing down on the rear tyres.
Do you have a link to the race series thread? It will just give me something to reference when building the car 👍

http://ccrforums.boards.net/thread/139/wednesday-night-races-rocket-details

 

[DolHaus]

Beginners Guide to the Data Logger by @F1Racer68 added to the OP
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-data-logger-a-beginners-guide.318832/​

 

[JTB10000]

I need help with tuning MR cars in general. I just cannot figure out what to do about the crazy amounts of oversteer.

 

[DolHaus]

I need help with tuning MR cars in general. I just cannot figure out what to do about the crazy amounts of oversteer.

Where are you encountering the oversteer (corner entry/mid/exit)? Please try and describe the symptoms and circumstances

 

[b1rdy01]

Thanks for that set up I managed to knock a second of my lap time really appreciate it