General Workout Routines and Questions

[phillgt2002]

@Bram Turismo
@Ryanswannell

Gaining muscle takes a little bit of time. You'll see results as you keep going, probably a few months to see real improvement..

As for me, I got on a real scale at the doctors office and surprisingly, it said I lost 6 pounds. I've been doing simple stuff for the past few months. I guess it was water weight but who knows. I took a break from the treadmill but now I'm starting back up for the long run. Once my hand/wrist is back to full strength, I'll start lifting but it's all cardio.. for now.

 

[Michael88]

@Bram Turismo
@Ryanswannell

Gaining muscle takes a little bit of time. You'll see results as you keep going, probably a few months to see real improvement..

True, before you get any muscular gains your body's nervous system adjusts to the lifting, which improves muscle control & coordination. Thats why beginners get stronger quickly even before their muscles start to grow.
A very important process.

 

[Pako]

@Michael88

Yes, you have been making it really hard on yourself. That's a good thing right? You would be bringing in a lot more glute and ham starting that much lower.

As I get older, I tend to shy away from extreme angels on my joints, especially elbows and knees. Those moving parts are only going to last so long. Take some of the pressure off your joints, raise the bar a bit, and add more weight if you want to make it harder.

But what the heck, if it doesn't hurt you, why stop doing it? Imagine the surprise if you go to competition and start from a 3.5" advantage from everyone else in your weight class. When I do squats, I tend to spend more time in the bottom of the set just so I get good and used to the weight down there. It has helped me tremendously to not be afraid of the bottom and has provided a strength in the bottom that the other guys I lift with push away from.

 

[Michael88]

As I get older, I tend to shy away from extreme angels on my joints, especially elbows and knees.

And extreme angles are not needed, you're living proof! 👍
I'm also careful with my joints, for example, I always experienced light shoulder pain when doing max dumbbell bench pressing because I tend to let my arms go down too low, putting excessive stress on my shoulder joints and over stretching my chest.
Now I'm doing them on a 1.5'' raised plate on the floor to limit my ROM to 95° or so degrees (elbows not touching the ground) My shoulders are much better now and I've gotten stronger too. Same with flyes.

I'm also thinking about stopping to go past 90 degrees when doing skull crushers on the flat bench, those feel really hard on the elbows and tendons. Do you go past 90 when doing that exercise?

But what the heck, if it doesn't hurt you, why stop doing it? Imagine the surprise if you go to competition and start from a 3.5" advantage from everyone else in your weight class.

A tempting thought, but you know, WEIGHT! Everyone else is bragging about how much they can deadlift when doing their normal exercise regime and even though my lift would be more difficult to perform it makes me feel weaker. Because WEIGHT. Its hard to avoid that peer pressure.

I think it would be best to mix it, one week the high setup, next week the low one.

 

[phillgt2002]

@Michael88 When I do squats, I tend to spend more time in the bottom of the set just so I get good and used to the weight down there. It has helped me tremendously to not be afraid of the bottom and has provided a strength in the bottom that the other guys I lift with push away from.

I'm one of those other guys, sadly. I had to use one of these angle measures (the thing you strap to your leg and beeps) and it was lower than I was used to, to the point where I felt I was going to fall over.

 

[Ryanswannell]

I have another question about squats.

Can you go too low on them? When I do mine, my thighs go past parallel with the floor, almost so that my hamstrings are resting on my calves. Is this dangerous or acceptable? I ask this because I often hear people talk about going parallel with the floor, and I rarely see people go as low as I do.

 

[Pako]

I have another question about squats.

Can you go too low on them? When I do mine, my thighs go past parallel with the floor, almost so that my hamstrings are resting on my calves. Is this dangerous or acceptable? I ask this because I often hear people talk about going parallel with the floor, and I rarely see people go as low as I do.

We like to call that kind of squat a "Starfish Kiss".

It's fine to do that, just be aware that much past 90 degrees and your quads disengage and your hamstring and glutes take over. You can feel this happen as your hip pivots to compensate for the deeper position. I used to do a lot of deep squats, now my left knee has been giving me troubles this past year. Not sure if it's related or if i'm just wearing out at 40+ years of age. Either way, if you go slow and keep from a ballistic movements, you should be find doing repetitions within your capabilities.

I think a wider stance puts less pressure on your knees when going deep than a narrower stance.

Hope that helps.

I should add, what I mean by "ballistics" is for goodness sake, DON'T BOUNCE in the bottom, DON'T SNAP at the top. That quick snapping in any motion with any amount of weight if a recipe for injury.

 

[Pako]

Speaking of squats, today was leg day. It went a little something like this.

Started with leg extensions.
20 reps per set.
@130
@150
@170
@190
@210
@230
@250
@270
@290
@290+half plates, maxed machine.

Then off to smith machine squats.
135x20
225x20
315x20
405x15
495x10

Then my left knee started to really hurt and I had to end my workout for the day. I would have wanted to end with lunges, but not today. I was happy with the 5 plate squat though at 10 reps though. Felt like I was moving a mountain. I would have been in trouble if it were free weight squats not in the rack.

 

[Omnis]

Been going to the gym next door to my house now since August 1st. I figured out why I can't squat.

My back and my ankles are sooooo weak. I did some weighted dorsiflexion exercises with my feet, and it was pretty obvious that I have absolutely no stability in a joint dominated by my calves and a shortened achilles.

I can do goblet squats just fine, but that's because the kettlebell lets me get into a wider stance and also provides a counter-weight to my butt going backwards.

My back is super weak too. I can't even engage my hamstrings during a romanian deadlift because my back can't stabilize under too much shear force. I do deadlifts at 225 and it feels like my legs don't even get a workout.

Already I have a tremendous improvement in my posture though. Lifting is great.

 

[Pako]

@Omnis, right on man! Lifting does improve bone density over time. Move up slowly in weight and make sure your form is spot on. The rest will come.

Lots of supporting exercises to improve those weaker areas. It's all those little stabilizers to that make free weight so tough. So much easier in a machine.

 

[Omnis]

I don't even know why people use free-weights if there are good machines available. My gym has a bunch of hammer strength stuff. I wish they had a precor super squat though. I work max effort, high intensity upper body pushing and pulling exercises on the hammer strength machines. They provide a superior workout. Warming up with the free weights is pretty good though. I don't see any evidence that would suggest free weights are better than specifically-, well-designed machines. The only exception I think is the deadlift, and that is because of the form required to do one correctly. Too many people want to lift heavy instead of lift correctly though. The DL is perhaps the most stability-intensive exercise there is. ... The highest stabilization per unit work.

 

[Pako]

I find machines are great for isolation, but when I want to get sore again, I grab some free weights. I regularly use a mix of both to fit my goals.

 

[Michael88]

I don't even know why people use free-weights if there are good machines available.

I do nothing but free weights. I only have a bunch of dumb- curl- barbells and about 300kg of weights.
Off the top of my head, I prefer free weights over machines because...

* Getting the weights into position is already a small core workout. If you don't believe me get into bench press position with two 120lbs dumbells and get up again without dropping the weights. I've seen fit people that could not move free weights into position, weight which they could easily do on a machine. Thats not functional strength. Not cool.
I think thats a very important aspect, before you lift you have to get the weight into position, which is a small but important workout in itself.
There is a reason why so many people like machines - they make lifting easier. But in the world of fitness easy isn't always good.

* Free weights works all the stabilizing muscles better and with free weights your core has to do stabilizing work all the time no matter what workout you are doing. Biceps curls for example, on a machine you sit down, rest your elbows on a padding and do the curls. With free weights you stand up and do curls with a 100lbs barbell, your back, abs and core have lots of work to do to keep your upper body straight while you are actually working your biceps.
People who only lift with machines can usually not lift nearly as much when using free weights or when having to move equally heavy objects outside the gym.

* Machines force you to do a certain range of motion, with some exercises its better for your body to find its own stance and position. Especially with shoulder exercises and exercise that put lots of stress on your wrists.
Not all machines have different grip options.

* Its plain cool to be able pick up really heavy weights and lift them without any machines, padding or seats. Let yourself grow a huge mustache and you'll feel like a super-manly strongman.

Free weight training is highly functional and minimalistic.

Machines have their place too, for example when you do max weight exercises, its much safer to do them with the aid of a machine to avoid injuries. Like Pako did when doing insanely heavy squats. I wouldn't do super heavy squats without two spotters or a machine either.

 

[Pako]

I do nothing but free weights. I only have a bunch of dumb- curl- barbells and about 300kg of weights.
Off the top of my head, I prefer free weights over machines because...

* Getting the weights into position is already a small core workout. If you don't believe me get into bench press position with two 120lbs dumbells and get up again without dropping the weights. I've seen fit people that could not move free weights into position, weight which they could easily do on a machine. Thats not functional strength. Not cool.
I think thats a very important aspect, before you lift you have to get the weight into position, which is a small but important workout in itself.
There is a reason why so many people like machines - they make lifting easier. But in the world of fitness easy isn't always good.

* Free weights works all the stabilizing muscles better and with free weights your core has to do stabilizing work all the time no matter what workout you are doing. Biceps curls for example, on a machine you sit down, rest your elbows on a padding and do the curls. With free weights you stand up and do curls with a 100lbs barbell, your back, abs and core have lots of work to do to keep your upper body straight while you are actually working your biceps.
People who only lift with machines can usually not lift nearly as much when using free weights or when having to move equally heavy objects outside the gym.

* Machines force you to do a certain range of motion, with some exercises its better for your body to find its own stance and position. Especially with shoulder exercises and exercise that put lots of stress on your wrists.
Not all machines have different grip options.

* Its plain cool to be able pick up really heavy weights and lift them without any machines, padding or seats. Let yourself grow a huge mustache and you'll feel like a super-manly strongman.

Free weight training is highly functional and minimalistic.

Machines have their place too, for example when you do max weight exercises, its much safer to do them with the aid of a machine to avoid injuries. Like Pako did when doing insanely heavy squats. I wouldn't do super heavy squats without two spotters or a machine either.

Speaking of heavy squats, I would have been in trouble for sure on free wights. I felt my core buckle under the load a couple times. That would have been disastrous on free weights. For most things, I prefer free weights for all the main primary lifts but find the machines work great for secondaries heads after being preexausted from the primaries.

 

[Michael88]

This is so funny, I just have to share it with you guys, I almost died from laughing at the guy with the beard and long hair who is demonstrating how to use exercise machines ''correctly.'' (Starting at 3:40 mins in the vid)

 

[Bram Turismo]

You guys reckon doing squats AND front squats on leg day is too much?

Normally I do squats, leg press, leg extensions and leg curls. But I enjoy squats so much that I tried doing 3 sets of front squats. But after just 1 set with a third of the weight I usually squat with I was just completely exhausted. So I left it at that and figured it was probably me trying to fit in just a bit too much.

I squatted with a wide stance yesterday, going only slightly below parallel. I also upped the weight on all other exercises. My legs haven't been this sore in ages, especially the "teardrop" part of the quad is painful today, in a good kind of way.

To be honest I like the wide, parallel squats a lot more than the narrow stance "ass-to-the-grass" squat. They just feel more natural and more effective for me. You'd think that my glutes and hamstrings wouldn't be so sore since I go parallel or just below, but nothing is less true!

 

[Pako]

This is so funny, I just have to share it with you guys, I almost died from laughing at the guy with the beard and long hair who is demonstrating how to use exercise machines ''correctly.'' (Starting at 3:40 mins in the vid)

Oh man, that dude with the long hair is out of complete control. He is the poster child of ballistic movement. I can hear it now, "Doc, I don't know what I did..... I was just working out like usual and now I can't raise my arm, curl it, and I can't bend over past about 20 degrees. You have to help me, I have no idea what could have happened...."

You guys reckon doing squats AND front squats on leg day is too much?

Normally I do squats, leg press, leg extensions and leg curls. But I enjoy squats so much that I tried doing 3 sets of front squats. But after just 1 set with a third of the weight I usually squat with I was just completely exhausted. So I left it at that and figured it was probably me trying to fit in just a bit too much.

I squatted with a wide stance yesterday, going only slightly below parallel. I also upped the weight on all other exercises. My legs haven't been this sore in ages, especially the "teardrop" part of the quad is painful today, in a good kind of way.

To be honest I like the wide, parallel squats a lot more than the narrow stance "ass-to-the-grass" squat. They just feel more natural and more effective for me. You'd think that my glutes and hamstrings wouldn't be so sore since I go parallel or just below, but nothing is less true!

If it works, work it. I would say if you're doing as a lighter finishing move, go for it. Next time, go for heavier fronts and use regular squats as a lighter volume set. Switch 'em around and keep it fresh.

There are big guys that training longer and harder than that, but don't let them kid you. They have 'help' to allow for those long workouts to have any benefit.

Like I've said in many many many other posts, muscle confusion is where it's at. Doing the same exact routine for every leg day will not only start to bore you, but your muscles will adapt and quite growing as effectively as they should. Sometimes just changing the order that you do things is all you need to switch it up. For years I would use leg extensions as a finisher move at the end of my leg workout. Now I do them first to get warmed up, get the blood flowing, and it gives me a nice preload going into squats or leg press. Every other week throw in a lunge routine or box jump circuit, sled instead of squats, keep it fresh.

 

[Omnis]

The guy doing the cable machine on the floor was hilarious.

You guys reckon doing squats AND front squats on leg day is too much?

Normally I do squats, leg press, leg extensions and leg curls. But I enjoy squats so much that I tried doing 3 sets of front squats. But after just 1 set with a third of the weight I usually squat with I was just completely exhausted. So I left it at that and figured it was probably me trying to fit in just a bit too much.

I squatted with a wide stance yesterday, going only slightly below parallel. I also upped the weight on all other exercises. My legs haven't been this sore in ages, especially the "teardrop" part of the quad is painful today, in a good kind of way.

To be honest I like the wide, parallel squats a lot more than the narrow stance "ass-to-the-grass" squat. They just feel more natural and more effective for me. You'd think that my glutes and hamstrings wouldn't be so sore since I go parallel or just below, but nothing is less true!

I would not do front and back squats. Instead, do back squats (if you can do them right) then hop on a machine (leg press, hack squat, v-squat, etc.) for more work. I don't like front squats at all. We're already quad dominant. I find that you can explore a better range of motion and degree of stability with goblet or kettlebell squats.

If you need more work on your vastus medialis, wrap a band around the back of your knee after running a slipknot through something solid. Straighten your leg (hyperextend it if you can-- full ROM) as shown in the video below:



It's super important that that head of the quadriceps be strong as it helps the patella track properly-- it has a tendency to slide outward during knee flexion, so the VM helps keep it from derailing so to speak. If you do this right (especially on leg day) your whole body will shake during the contraction and you'll get a HUGE pump. It'll look like someone put fake tits on your knee.

 

[Pako]

I don't like front squats at all. We're already quad dominant. I find that you can explore a better range of motion and degree of stability with goblet or kettlebell squats.

A question that should be asked as with most other advise giving responses is what are your goals?

I tend to ask the biggest guy that has some age to him for advise. Not making fun of your kettle squats, but you can only put on so much mass with kettle squats just by the mechanics behind holding the weight. You can only old so kettle.

So look at your guy doing kettle squats, and check out the guy below doing front squats. Is it size you are going for?

For the record, I hate front squats. Too painful on my front shoulders, etc.

 

[Michael88]

For the record, I hate front squats. Too painful on my front shoulders, etc.

I don't like them either, but my shoulders are fine, its my wrists bending beyond their limits which hurts so much I can't do them properly.
I need a barbell rest so I can do them with crossed arms.

Hey, thats not a machine.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I love front squats, which is why I tried squeezing in a set of front squats on leg day in addition to back squats.

 

[Pako]

I wish my legs were a lot bigger, like freakish. My quads are slowing coming along with moderate growth on my teardrops, but man, a guy wants to get his freak show on. Hoping this winter, assuming I can stay injury free, to put on some decent size. I'll be changing up my routine a bit trying to put on a bit more size with the plan of getting good and cut this next spring. We'll see how it goes. When you push hard every day, it's hard to imagine doing anything differently that will help. One thing that I know I am lacking in is getting enough sleep and eating right. Two huge things that could really improve things.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I kind of developed some leg muscles by cycling alone, so I'm praying I have genetics for some strong legs. I always wanted huge quads. I know my chest is small, as I can't benchpress for the life of me. I think chest day is the day I lift the lightest weights compared to the other guys. I don't know what's up with my chest, I just can't work it as good as I can work my shoulders and legs.

 

[Michael88]

I'm a cyclist and do lots of mountain cycling (25% inclines) and I can tell you after having thousands of kilometers on my legs, cycling does nothing to increase the size or strength of your leg if you have reached a certain point. Too many reps, to little resistance. You totally have to do leg exercises.
If cycling would increase the size and strength of your legs those Tour De France cyclists would have enormous legs, but they don't.

Also if your chest is weak don't get stuck at bench presses, do some really heavy flyes. Do inclines, declines, pullovers, bench with dumbbells etc. Never give up.

 

[Omnis]

A question that should be asked as with most other advise giving responses is what are your goals?

I tend to ask the biggest guy that has some age to him for advise. Not making fun of your kettle squats, but you can only put on so much mass with kettle squats just by the mechanics behind holding the weight. You can only old so kettle.

So look at your guy doing kettle squats, and check out the guy below doing front squats. Is it size you are going for?

For the record, I hate front squats. Too painful on my front shoulders, etc.

You're really coming at me with broscience now?

That guy is front-squatting 135lbs on a smith machine. If you think that's going to do anything for you, have at it.

You missed my point about doing back squats and then kettlebell or goblet squats as an accessory exercise.

 

[phillgt2002]

This has been a horrible off day. Had a couple of cookies and some crackers.

 

[Pako]

You're really coming at me with broscience now?

That guy is front-squatting 135lbs on a smith machine. If you think that's going to do anything for you, have at it.

You missed my point about doing back squats and then kettlebell or goblet squats as an accessory exercise.

LOL, a little bro science never hurt no one, ok well.....maybe.

 

[Bram Turismo]

This has been a horrible off day. Had a couple of cookies and some crackers.

That's it?

You should've seen what I had for my birthday this past weekend...

PR today for me as I'm now deadlifting my bodyweight for reps. 1st goal reached! Next goal is BW in squatting. 👍

 

[phillgt2002]

That's it?

You should've seen what I had for my birthday this past weekend...

PR today for me as I'm now deadlifting my bodyweight for reps. 1st goal reached! Next goal is BW in squatting. 👍

Are you currently waging a war against your body? This war against food is full scale and their calories are taking losses of 1200-1300 a day. The fight for my taste buds and cravings was lost but we are currently fighting back harder than ever.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Cutting on calories when building muscle? Nonsense!