General Workout Routines and Questions

[Omnis]

Go heavy but work up to it. Learn how to do movements correctly by reading and watching guys like Dean Somerset, Tony Gentilcore, Stuart McGill, the EliteFTS guys, and people they associate with. Social media makes it really easy to see who knows and works with whom, and to evaluate reputation and expertise. Don't be afraid to use machines in the mean time.

When my legs start getting sore from sitting too much, I definitely know it's time to stop slacking. After I stopped walking so much in school and before I started working out, my legs and my back were literally in agonizing pain. It was like some kind of palsy atrophying sensation. But I haven't had that in a while. Just gainz.

What does your gym program look like? The first two weeks I just did machines. Mostly hammer strength machines. I started by doing the 5 basic movements as prescribed in Body By Science. I.e., a squat, a hip hinge, a press, a vertical pull, and a horizontal pull. Just do as heavy as you can manage on the machines, and go ultra slow as to take momentum out of the movements.

There were exceptions in the squat and hip hinge. For those, I did kettlebell goblet squats because I was mostly preparing to be able to back squat for real. That was technique prep along with the extensive mobility work I did for four months prior. (It's so important to open your hips and be able to track your knees outside of your pinky toe.)

Strength prep came from leg extensions, hamstring curls, and SINGLE LEG leg presses. (Important! Single leg presses save your back by halving the weight. I hurt my back since the machine at my gym had no contour for support and this sidelined me for 2 weeks) And for the hip hinges I did single-leg romanian deadlifts, focusing on maintaining neutral spine and balance.

I did all of that on one day per week in order to prepare myself for real work so as not to be so sore that I lost motivation. Then I moved to a three day split where I hit legs on monday, back on wednesday, and chest and arms on friday.

Despite my preparatory efforts, I was still about as sore as a focus group in a dildo factory the day following each workout. But after two weeks of work the post-workout DOMs wasn't nearly as bad. That's when I began transitioning into the powerlifting trinity of squat/dead/bench as the real pillars of my workouts, especially since now I could (A) squat properly and (B) perform a proper pushup (not easy when you're 300).

Today I do something like Johnnie Candito's linear strength program. It's 4 days of gym per week with breaks on wednesdays and weekends.

• Mondays are heavy squats and deadlifts (I pick which I feel like featuring or focusing on more) followed by leg extensions and hamstring curls. Monday is also chicken wing night. 20 to 25, 49 cent wings at the local spot for recovery.
• Tuesday is heavy bench day followed by heavy horizontal pull and volume vertical pull and elastic shoulder exercises (face pulls, etc)
• Wednesday is rest and wing-pooing night.
• Thursday is pause squats for control and volume, easy romanian deadlifts or light deadlifts in olympic shoes for more of a deficit pull. These are more to train the glutes and resist spinal flexion. Never load a compromised spinal position. I follow them with abdominal pike rollouts until I can't stay stable on the ball. It doesn't take very long-- these things are killer. Then I do bulgarian split squats until I can't on each leg just to get that nice pump before I walk out of the gym.
• Friday is volume bench day, doing pause reps. Followed by heavy vertical pull, then shoulder press, then volume horizontal pull. Do incline biceps curls because that is the only biceps exercise that is worthwhile-- and standing triceps extensions with elastic to get that pump for the weekend gun show. Exit gym.

 

[Team THRT Drift]

You guys ever watch ATHLEAN-X on YouTube? Has great tips on workouts, routines, do's and don'ts, etc.

 

[nk4e]

Do you guys see any benefits with this challenge?

 

[Michael88]

The only thing you can do to make situps suck even more is doing them with your legs fixed. You want to train your abs, not your goddamn hip flexors.

For abs I do crunches on the floor, with the legs in the air while holding a 60lbs barbell over my head with straight arms. That does the trick.

Also if you can do more than ten repetitions you're not using enough weight (unless you want to go for endurance.) This is also true for abs exercises. Do weighted crunches people.

 

[phillgt2002]

I called off lifting today, but I did do decent cardio. The reason why I called off lifting is because there's a shooting pain going through my elbow when I extend it. Any one have an answer for this? It sucks because I was looking forward to doing my back today.

 

[Michael88]

I just benched 260lbs / 120kg 4 reps and 3 reps 284 / 128kg, with dumbbells, without arched back. This does not sound like much but dumbbells are a whole lot harder than a straight comfy bar. Wrestling them on the bench and getting them in position was a little exercise in itself.

And I did them on the end of my bench press set, I think I could have done 310 / 140 had I not been exhausted.

128's:

 

[Michael88]

Oh, and I also dropped body fat down to 13% or so. I mainly train for strength and to stay fit so body fat % don't really matter much to me - but here a shameless macho selfie just because.

 

[Michael88]

Advanced grip techniques - holding vs resting.

Have you ever considered changing your grip to improve your bench and shoulder presses? It would not be a bad idea. What I'm showing you here is a way to press more with only a little change of your grip.

Normally you hold a dumbbell like this (Yes, this is my hand):

A good and secure grip, though it has disadvantages. Under heavy loads it will bend your palm a little since it is not directly centered above your forearm. What happens is your forearm muscles will have to do stabilizing work, the forearm muscles try to straighten out the palm to prevent it from bending too much and your fingers have to squeeze hard to prevent the bar from moving around while all those muscles try to balance it somehow.
A lot of stuff happens that has nothing to do with the press itself.

You're holding the weights. And all this while you're actually trying to lift a million pounds with your chest. It takes away a not so small amount of strength and concentration which you could actually use to move more weight with the proper grip.

Now here is a better grip.

What has changed here is the bar is allowed to follow the natural shape of the hand, the center of the bar is almost directly above the forearm. Since it is very well balanced and the bar is resting on your hand your forearms, fingers and palm muscles have little work to keep the weight where it is supposed to be. Note how I only use my finger tips to keep the bar from moving.
In this position I could bench my max weight without having to close my hand. (Which I do not recommend by the way). The weights will feel like they're directly attached to your forearms which totally changes the way presses feel.

Here a small sketch about what happens. The red bar is how you'd normally hold the bar, the yellow line represents the alternate grip. The red arrow represents the center of your forearm and the white circle the perfect contact patch which is directly above your forearm.


IMPORTANT: One more thing, I do not recommend this to inexperienced beginners, without having the ''feel'' of holding heavy weights and their balance points its easy to use this grip incorrectly which will lead to injuries. If you're a beginner stick to the normal grip.

You already have to hold the weights that way when you go into position, you cannot change your grip later. If you're laying down on a bench with heavy weights using this grip the improper way and without knowing how to balance them you're likely to crush your skull with the weights while going into position.

 

[phillgt2002]

Ill have to try it sometime.

 

[Michael88]

Ill have to try it sometime.

Do it! A specific grip can make or break a lift, if the muscle is the engine the grip is the suspension that puts all the power to the ground. Using a ''suicide'' grip has improved my max barbell military press by 5kg, and without using a cross-grip I could not deadlift nearly as much as I do right now.

 

[Omnis]

Tonight at the gym I was doing some pause benching, then kneeling lat pulldowns (great for ab stability) then arms. Confirmed visual of vascularity in my arms. Them armular gainz. #gainzallday

Do you guys see any benefits with this challenge?

Nope. Just a lot of stress on the discs. Great way to destroy them over time.

All you need is the tiniest fissure in one of your discs before compression causes the jelly to bulge out. If it bulges out onto a nerve root, the pain can be unbearable.

Advanced grip techniques - holding vs resting.

Have you ever considered changing your grip to improve your bench and shoulder presses? It would not be a bad idea. What I'm showing you here is a way to press more with only a little change of your grip.

Normally you hold a dumbbell like this (Yes, this is my hand):

A good and secure grip, though it has disadvantages. Under heavy loads it will bend your palm a little since it is not directly centered above your forearm. What happens is your forearm muscles will have to do stabilizing work, the forearm muscles try to straighten out the palm to prevent it from bending too much and your fingers have to squeeze hard to prevent the bar from moving around while all those muscles try to balance it somehow.
A lot of stuff happens that has nothing to do with the press itself.

You're holding the weights. And all this while you're actually trying to lift a million pounds with your chest. It takes away a not so small amount of strength and concentration which you could actually use to move more weight with the proper grip.

Now here is a better grip.

What has changed here is the bar is allowed to follow the natural shape of the hand, the center of the bar is almost directly above the forearm. Since it is very well balanced and the bar is resting on your hand your forearms, fingers and palm muscles have little work to keep the weight where it is supposed to be. Note how I only use my finger tips to keep the bar from moving.
In this position I could bench my max weight without having to close my hand. (Which I do not recommend by the way). The weights will feel like they're directly attached to your forearms which totally changes the way presses feel.

Here a small sketch about what happens. The red bar is how you'd normally hold the bar, the yellow line represents the alternate grip. The red arrow represents the center of your forearm and the white circle the perfect contact patch which is directly above your forearm.


IMPORTANT: One more thing, I do not recommend this to inexperienced beginners, without having the ''feel'' of holding heavy weights and their balance points its easy to use this grip incorrectly which will lead to injuries. If you're a beginner stick to the normal grip.

You already have to hold the weights that way when you go into position, you cannot change your grip later. If you're laying down on a bench with heavy weights using this grip the improper way and without knowing how to balance them you're likely to crush your skull with the weights while going into position.

The problem here is not the position of the grip but the grip itself. I would not recommend finger tipping the grip like that. It's dangerous. The correct thing to do-- the thing that most people don't do-- is to squeeze the **** out of the bar at all times. This naturally puts the bar in that notch in your hands and stabilizes the wrist and carpals. My bench sucks because my grip is weak. It's getting better and feeling better as I improve my wrist stability.

 

[Michael88]

I've been using that grip for years for my heaviest lifts which includes decline bench press and military press standing and it definitely improved them because of the reason mentioned in my previous post. If the bars move around so much that it becomes a safety issue if you don't grab them powerfully with your hand you're probably a beginner, the weights need to be balanced and directly above your forearm, that way they do not move or suddenly roll from your palms unless you're doing something very wrong.
I've been using hat grip almost daily for many years and I've never had a weight slip.

As I mentioned, for beginners its a potentially dangerous grip, for high level lifters its a great way to move even more weight.

 

[phillgt2002]

I don't know what to think of protein shakes. I'm a big guy, but I don't really know if I'd benefit from drinking them regularly.

I know that you don't really need to drink protein shakes to maintain by just having a diet that consists of it, but if I'm trying to build a-lot more muscle, should I drink them?

I know how they work, but for a guy that has stayed away from them, it's just a question that I have.

 

[Luminis]

Not posting in here as much as I thought I would, but I'm happy to report that I'm moving onwards slowly but steadily. My body fats slowly getting below the 10% mark, abs are getting more visible week after week 👍 Not building a lot of strength at the moment, but I've managed to claw back what I dropped after cutting and catching the flu, so I'm quite happy with that. I'm currently focusing on my core and improving my cardio a little. While I'm lacking in the mass department a bit, I'm feeling great. I'd say I'm in the best shape of my life at the moment and want to keep moving forward from here. Might be able to pile on some meat in the fall, or so I hope.

@phillkillv2, personally, I prefer to consume my protein as part of my regular diet. I've got some protein shakes at home for supplementation if I can't take in enough protein on a given day, but I won't use them on a daily basis. Too expensive, imho, but I'm quite stingy with that sort of stuff. Depends on how much you're valuing the convenience of protein shakes as opposed to altering your diet, I suppose.

I just go with eating a pack of low fat curd cheese a day whenever I fell the need to up my protein intake. Don't know whether you're getting that exact product in the US, but in Germany it's called Magerquark. We're differentiating between that stuff and actual curd cheese, but it's the only translation I've found A pound of that stuff has about 350 calories, 60 grams of protein give or take, costs about fifty cents and is quite filling. Only downside is the abysmal taste, but that can be remedied by mixing it with fruits - or diet coke, as I've found. Not for the faint of heart, though.

@Michael88, I might try that grip technique, probably with less weight to get a feel for it. Sounds good, that's for sure 👍

You guys ever watch ATHLEAN-X on YouTube? Has great tips on workouts, routines, do's and don'ts, etc.

I've been watching a few different Youtubers that deal with fitness and lifting and I personally don't like Athlean-X a lot. The personality and the way the presenter speaks is kind of putting me off; can't even put my finger on what I dislike about him. I prefer the B.U.F.F. Dudes myself. Athlean-X had a nice video about Bruce Lee's training methods, though, and I sure liked learning what he did. Helped me improve my form while doing Dragon Flags considerably, so that's a plus

 

[Michael88]

Today I pushed a 2 tonnes heavy a KIA van uphill, with flat tires. Talk about full body workout, I feel every muscle fiber in my body now.

 

[Omnis]

I need to try this.



Oh, and the exercise looks neat too. Too bad I don't have a power rack nearby.

Today I pushed a 2 tonnes heavy a KIA van uphill, with flat tires. Talk about full body workout, I feel every muscle fiber in my body now.

Careful. Pushing things are more strenuous than you might think. I've seen a lot of heart attack history that began with "pushed a car".

 

[Michael88]

......I'm sorry, what was this vid about? I kind of zoned out when she started rotating her hips....

 

[Johnnypenso]

......I'm sorry, what was this vid about? I kind of zoned out when she started rotating her hips....

Not sure how it gets buy the AUP

 

[Bram Turismo]

I could listen to coach Rippetoe for days on end. Who ever I get my techniques from, I always end up listening to Mark:

 

[phillgt2002]

Feels weird being at 250.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I need to try this.

......I'm sorry, what was this vid about? I kind of zoned out when she started rotating her hips....

Not sure how it gets buy the AUP

Wow no kidding. That was borderline NSFW.

 

[phillgt2002]

I've been eating less and less and burning calories. (I've been eating much less because I've been consuming so much more protein which is making me feel super full for very long periods of time.)

I burn about 300Cal every time I work out in cardio. Some days, I'll have merely a bag of mixed nuts w/ cranberries, one or two protein nut bars, and an apple. That's like 400-550Cal at most. Come home, I'll have a sandwich or maybe a bowl of cereal and I'm full until the afternoon the next day. That's like 1350 calories a day not counting the ones I burned.

At the moment, I'm 250 pounds and that's easy below my recommended intake.

I don't know. I feel satisfied white l with the way I eat, but I'm not sure if it's the right way.. I will say, I've been dropping pounds.

Combination lifts during the week and elliptical at max encline and treadmill at max incline at 4mph everyday has been doing it for me.

I got lazy on my chest the other day, so I'm going for it again Friday. Haven't seen any big gains, I just look more toned. I haven't been doing abs or anything like that, so my belly is still there. I guess I can say my arms have gotten ripe I feel like I'm flexing when Im really not.

I think I might join the San Francisco rugby team

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've been eating less and less and burning calories. (I've been eating much less because I've been consuming so much more protein which is making me feel super full for very long periods of time.)

I burn about 300Cal every time I work out in cardio. Some days, I'll have merely a bag of mixed nuts w/ cranberries, one or two protein nut bars, and an apple. That's like 400-550Cal at most. Come home, I'll have a sandwich or maybe a bowl of cereal and I'm full until the afternoon the next day. That's like 1350 calories a day not counting the ones I burned.

At the moment, I'm 250 pounds and that's easy below my recommended intake.

I don't know. I feel satisfied white l with the way I eat, but I'm not sure if it's the right way.. I will say, I've been dropping pounds.

Combination lifts during the week and elliptical at max encline and treadmill at max incline at 4mph everyday has been doing it for me.

I got lazy on my chest the other day, so I'm going for it again Friday. Haven't seen any big gains, I just look more toned. I haven't been doing abs or anything like that, so my belly is still there. I guess I can say my arms have gotten ripe I feel like I'm flexing when Im really not.

I think I might join the San Francisco rugby team

Couple of suggestions for you.

1. Count your calories religiously. When I got serious about losing weight many years ago I did this for many weeks to get a real feel for how much I was eating. I mention this because two protein bars + bag of nuts and cranberries + apple could easily be 800-900 calories depending on which protein bars and how big the bag of nuts and cranberries is. On a side note, I once ate 9000 calories during a super bowl party...no joke

2. Not sure if this is what you meant or not, but you can't lose weight around your abs by doing work on your abs. You can tone your abs by working your abs and make your tummy a little flatter that way, but you can't spot reduce. Your body type determines how and where you put on and lose weight and you can't change that no matter what you do. The best way to lose a belly is simply to lose weight and it'll come off the belly and everywhere else wherever your genes tell it to. Working your abs in particular isn't actually a big calorie burn because the muscles are relatively small. Stick to your combination lifts to burn the most calories and reduce the belly the fastest.

3. IMO 1350 calories/day is not enough for a guy your size who is working out intensely. Your daily calorie burn is likely well over 3000 calories, and you probably shouldn't have a caloric deficit of more than 1000 calories/day. A 1000 calorie deficit will net you an 8 lbs weight loss each month and that's the high end of what is considered "safe".

You can read more about it here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fa...-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/calorie-deficit-to-lose-weight/

4. Your body is crying out for naturally available vitamins, minerals and micronutrients and the best way to get them is from real food. Most of the foods you listed above are processed and that's not the best way to get calories. You should eat more fruits, more vegetables, lean meats, fish, unprocessed nuts etc. A good mix of food will provide your body with all the nutrition it needs to fuel your workouts, fight off stress and fatigue, keep up energy etc.

 

[phillgt2002]

Couple of suggestions for you.

Good advice.

Yeah, I was kinda on the go when typing this on my phone. The stuff I usually eat like I mentioned is probably around 800 calories.

I understand that spot focusing doesn't work. I was kind of just mentioning that I haven't lost much weight around the stomach and that I haven't been doing any ab workouts. I word stuff oddly when I'm tired and on the run.

I've been worried about my calorie intake, though I don't eat the same stuff everyday. I try to change my foods up and sometimes I'll take in more calories during a lunch. Whenever I have dinner, I throw in lots of spinach, kale, broccoli, and other things of the like. I do the same with my lunches, if I bother to make one. I'll ramp up my calarie intake slowly to around 2000-2500 a day, though I just need to find the right foods to put in.

I think I get enough vitamins on the right day. I buy my nuts separately and add my own dried cranberries, no additives. I eat lean meats when I do eat meat. Only turkey and chicken.

I don't know. Ill see how I'll feel after increasing my calorie intake. I should feel better and more energized.

3000 calories is probably what I need, but honestly, that is a lot of food for me to eat. I'll keep it to to 2000-2500.

Does that sound good?

Yeesh. I'm tired.. Also, I started getting lazy with my food intake about two weeks ago.

 

[Omnis]

I could listen to coach Rippetoe for days on end. Who ever I get my techniques from, I always end up listening to Mark:

This is incorrect from a training perspective. It's good for overhead pressing for competition though. The overhead press used to be an olympic lift. Back then they would Snatch, Clean and Jerk, and Clean and Press.

For training the overhead press, you want to completely take your back out of the movement. None of that sway crap. And you don't want to shrug up your shoulders to your ears because that will most likely cause subacromial impingement depending on your anatomy.

 

[Michael88]

Sadly, shoulder pressing phased out of powerlifting and olympic lifting due to the bad forms used to press more weight, in the end people were leaning back so badly it basically became standing bench pressing. Which is extremely bad for the spine.

Shoulder pressing standing unsupported (without any leaning of corse) is my favorite exercise, my one rep max with good form is 87kg (88% body weight).
I've heard Rippetoe is supposed to be a widely respected pro trainer and whatnot, but this back sway is complete BS. When doing a proper press nothing moves but your arms, there is no momentum created by your back and you also do not use use your legs to aid your press. The only good advice in the video is the grip, its just what I've been telling a few posts ago.

The most important things when doing heavy overhead presses:

1. Bar right in line with your forearms, like shown in the video
2. Flex your butt and push your hips forward, this will keep the lower part of your spine straight
3. Flex your abs as hard as you can to keep your upper body straight and to prevent leaning
4. Eyes straight
5. Shoulder width stance
6.- Grip width = shoulder width

Also don't go heavy until you have a solid strong core, which you can create with deadlifts, front squats etc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Good advice.

Yeah, I was kinda on the go when typing this on my phone. The stuff I usually eat like I mentioned is probably around 800 calories.

I understand that spot focusing doesn't work. I was kind of just mentioning that I haven't lost much weight around the stomach and that I haven't been doing any ab workouts. I word stuff oddly when I'm tired and on the run.

I've been worried about my calorie intake, though I don't eat the same stuff everyday. I try to change my foods up and sometimes I'll take in more calories during a lunch. Whenever I have dinner, I throw in lots of spinach, kale, broccoli, and other things of the like. I do the same with my lunches, if I bother to make one. I'll ramp up my calarie intake slowly to around 2000-2500 a day, though I just need to find the right foods to put in.

I think I get enough vitamins on the right day. I buy my nuts separately and add my own dried cranberries, no additives. I eat lean meats when I do eat meat. Only turkey and chicken.

I don't know. Ill see how I'll feel after increasing my calorie intake. I should feel better and more energized.

3000 calories is probably what I need, but honestly, that is a lot of food for me to eat. I'll keep it to to 2000-2500.

Does that sound good?

Yeesh. I'm tired.. Also, I started getting lazy with my food intake about two weeks ago.

For caloric intake you have to try and figure out what your burn rate is and subtract from there. General rule of thumb for a moderately active man is around 13 calories/pound if memory serves..for maintenance. Of course it depends on how active you are outside the gym as well, what kind of work you do etc. But if you go with 13 x 250 you get 3250 calories for maintenance, so 2000-2500 is probably your target area. As your weight drops you have to adjust that accordingly.

 

[phillgt2002]

For caloric intake you have to try and figure out what your burn rate is and subtract from there. General rule of thumb for a moderately active man is around 13 calories/pound if memory serves..for maintenance. Of course it depends on how active you are outside the gym as well, what kind of work you do etc. But if you go with 13 x 250 you get 3250 calories for maintenance, so 2000-2500 is probably your target area. As your weight drops you have to adjust that accordingly.

Alright. Thanks for the advice. I've never heard of or thought of the calories per pound ratio. Good to know.

 

[Omnis]

@Michael88, how long did it take before your arms got huge? All my life I've been just the big guy, but because I'm so big I never got to the point where it was obvious that I lifted. So I've thrown in some incline dumbbell curls to all my upper body workouts and do 3 sets of as close to ten as I can with 25lbs, then 20, and finally 15. I think if I can get some gunZ (capital Z for effect) and deltZ, it might help even out my physique or maybe give me a better shape while clothed. An illusion of fitness rather than just bigness. I want to look damn good by the end of the year when I have to start interviewing for this whole doctor gig. Can't look like a giant sack of ****.

So, since I've started doing curls my pulldowns have also gone up 50 pounds. I was shocked at how easy they were. I always felt like I could get more out of my lats. Perhaps my biceps were the limiting factor after all. Are there any machines out there that can isolate the lats better than a properly-performed cable pulldown? I dunno. Maybe I'm not even getting a good enough stretch on my lats because I can just reach up, grab the bar, and go. Maybe my height and wingspan is too much for their machine.

 

[Michael88]

Lol, I don't know if my arms even qualify as massive, neither do I really care as much about the size as I do about strength since I'm not a bodybuilder. To answer the question though, if I remember correctly bulk really picked up after a year or maybe a little more of hard lifting and slowed down to snails pace after three years or so. But that was a long time ago, sadly I tend to remember time spans incorrectly.
Also I've never done drugs, I've never taken supplements and my diet has always been crappy which definitely had/has an an impact on my 'growth speed'.
Not much of a help, huh?

But the best answer would be: doesn't matter for you. It takes as long as it takes, you cannot rush it, you cannot speed the process up so how fast others bulk up is a completely irrelevant question. Eat healthily, drink enough water, give your best, religiously stick to a plan that works for you and don't give up, that's what matters.

Are there any machines out there that can isolate the lats better than a properly-performed cable pulldown? I dunno. Maybe I'm not even getting a good enough stretch on my lats because I can just reach up, grab the bar, and go. Maybe my height and wingspan is too much for their machine.

My humble opinion: screw lat pulls. Do bent over barbell rows and weighted chin ups instead. Those are, in my opinion, the two best exercises for lats by far. Also you can go really hard and heavy on barbell rows, I do them with 90kg and it feels great.

If your biceps are weak do barbell rows with overhand grip, hold it with four fingers and exclude the thumb, that way your hands are more like hooks which helps to disengage the biceps from this lift.

And don't forget to do your deadlifts.