Germany to Impose Tolls on the Autobahn

[Sanji Himura]

The German Government has taken its first steps to introducing a toll largely aimed at foreign motorists who travel the nation's roads and autobahn. If approved by the government, the toll would take effect in 2016 with possibly motorcycles to follow shortly thereafter.

If approved by the government, any motorist who enters Germany in a car that is from out of the country (Registered abroad) would need to pay 10 euros($13 USD) to be able to travel the roads of Germany for 10 days, a two month pass would cost 20 euros($27), and if you travel the roads of Germany on a regular basis, you have the option of buying a year long pass starting at 100 euros($136).

German motorists are required to pay the toll too, but the amount paid will be deducted from the costs of their annual registration.

Politicians hope the measure will raise 600,000 euros, and the money will be used to maintain their roads.

Austria is not too happy about the new tolls, and vows to fight this with the EU on discrimination grounds.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/germany-to-impose-toll-on-foreign-motorists.html

Fair or Foul?

 

[niky]

A hundred Euros for a year-long toll for an entire country?

That's cheaper than any toll rate I pay.

 

[daan]

How is it discrimination if German drivers have to pay it too?

 

[jimipitbull]

How is it discrimination if German drivers have to pay it too?

cars vs motorcycles

 

[Sanji Himura]

The way Austria sees it, @daan, because German drivers gets a break on their registration fees (@mister dog will have to help me here, but assuming that car registration is 230 euros, German drivers who get the year long pass would only have to pay 130 euros in registration and then another 100 euros, give or take, for their toll pass for a total registration cost of 230 euros.) While basically, if you are a German driver, you'd get a write off on registration, in reality you still, because of the toll, still pay the same money before the tolls were enacted.

It is everyone else who gets left holding the bag for German roads because they have to pay the additional costs of the toll to Germany.

 

[niky]

You're a foreigner driving on another country's roads... being forced to pay tolls for the privilege of using the infrastructure that that country is maintaining. Unless your own country helps foot the bill, I don't see the problem in the country charging you for driving through.

A hundred Euros a year is not all that expensive compared to other automotive costs.

 

[Sanji Himura]

You're a foreigner driving on another country's roads... being forced to pay tolls for the privilege of using the infrastructure that that country is maintaining. Unless your own country helps foot the bill, I don't see the problem in the country charging you for driving through.

A hundred Euros a year is not all that expensive compared to other automotive costs.

It is not an additional cost to German drivers that is what Austria is saying. By law, here in the US, a state can't impose a toll on the complete interstate system. I mean there are examples of areas where some states tolled only one or two lanes of the interstate, but as a general rule, the costs of maintaining the infrastructure are supposed to only come from two sources, the fuel tax and vehicle registration fees.

Germany, from what it sounds like, is imposing an additional registration fee on all foreign vehicles to be able to drive on German roads, that is what it stinks like.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

About time. I have to commute 100km each day to my working place, about 70km on the autobahn, so that makes 140km each working day.
There are just soooo many foreign trucks using the autobahn, I am glad they will have to pay a bill too. The amount of bat**** insane stuff I have seen from them is mind boggling. Like pulling their truck onto the left lane to overtake (because they can drive 5km/h faster then the truck ahead...) eventhough a car is closing them with 200km/h.

Lol at austria, when we germans pay bills to drive at their crappy 120km/h speed limited autobahn everything is fine.

 

[mister dog]

(@mister dog will have to help me here)

You need to learn your flags again my friend

 

[daan]

The bottom line is that everyone is being charged E100 to use Germany's road network for a year. If the Germans decide to reduce the registration fee of their nation's cars to E130 they are perfectly entitled to do so.

No country can tell another country what to charge for road tax or car registration. The US state system has nothing to do with independent countries in Europe.

 

[Doodle]

$13 isn't really that expensive for 10 days. I'm only saying that because my daily commute this summer puts me on a toll road that costs $5 round-trip every day.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Works in France

 

[Kent]

The bridge into New Orleans costs $3 per trip, I don't see how this toll is worth complaining about.

 

[BKGlover]

Once again, the headline doesn't tell the entire story. But because BS sells, we end up with this.

OT: So Germany is implementing a toll that, if I'm reading right, amounts to at most 1 Euro a day and at least 3/10? of one a day. Considering how things are in NCTX, people would take it in a heartbeat. The reason for all this is something the US can't compare itself to unless every state became a sovereign nation. I don't get the problem here, if you live in Germany, you have to pay the toll AND registration, everyone else just pays the tolls. Last I checked, tollways take money no matter who you are, where you're from, or where you are. The German Government, however, has given it's own citizens a break in offering a trade-off for registration.

For those who can't deal with it, use the regular roads.

 

[McLaren]

So, you're telling me for once, someone on the US side of the pond can look at this & go, "What are they complaining about?" Seriously, $136/year and you can drive the roads all you want? I pay that much for 1 month just to use the tolls here & I only hit 4 a day (8 altogether to & from) for work. That's with a tolltag to discount, too.

I'd take $13/10 days any day.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Seems cheap to me. I'd happily pay it.

 

[Mark II Blit]

The price is beside the point. The problem is that the law has been tailored to specifically a financial burden on foreign registered cars and thereby EU citizens of other EU nations transitting through Germany. This conflicts with EU legislation, which is very clear in prohibiting discrimination based on nationality. It's the same legislation that prevents us from having one set of rules for our native citizens and another for foreign EU citizens when paying out welfare and child benefits.

The tax revenue this will generate will probably be miniscule, as the German car owners can deduct the price of the vignette from their vehicle tax, and the administrative costs of implementing the system will be so high, they'll likely eat away the nondeductible tax revenue from foreign motorists. Not to mention the fact that we already pay for the wear and tear we cause on the Autobahn via Germany's steep fuel taxes.

It's a pointless law if you ask me.

 

[McLaren]

The price is beside the point. The problem is that the law has been tailored to specifically a financial burden on foreign registered cars and thereby EU citizens of other EU nations transitting through Germany. This conflicts with EU legislation, which is very clear in prohibiting discrimination based on nationality. It's the same legislation that prevents us from having one set of rules for our native citizens and another for foreign EU citizens when paying out welfare and child benefits.

The tax revenue this will generate will probably be miniscule, as the German car owners can deduct the price of the vignette from their vehicle tax, and the administrative costs of implementing the system will be so high, they'll likely eat away the nondeductible tax revenue from foreign motorists. Not to mention the fact that we already pay for the wear and tear we cause on the Autobahn via Germany's steep fuel taxes.

It's a pointless law if you ask me.

Discrimination.

Daan just said above the bottom line is that everyone pays the same fee.

The bottom line is that everyone is being charged E100 to use Germany's road network for a year. If the Germans decide to reduce the registration fee of their nation's cars to E130 they are perfectly entitled to do so.

No country can tell another country what to charge for road tax or car registration. The US state system has nothing to do with independent countries in Europe.

 

[Robin]

Tolls have not gone down well here at all, the M6 toll, pretty much the only one has been an utter failure loosing money like water and hardly anyone using it. At £5.50 to drive 27 miles it's also highway robbery... if you pardon the pun!

As for Germany this effort to raise 600,000 Euros.... that's piddly nothing, will pay the wages of a handful of highway maintenance guys for a year and that's about it.

 

[Mark II Blit]

Discrimination.

Daan just said above the bottom line is that everyone pays the same fee.

A fee they can deduct from their yearly vehicle tax. All in all, the Germans end up paying the same taxes as before, whereas foreigners have to pay more to use German roads. It's a grey area, though. We'll have to see what the bigwigs in Brussels say.

 

[Tornado]

No country can tell another country what to charge for road tax or car registration.

I thought stuff like that was the entire point of the EU?

 

[Crash]

I don't see a problem with this at all. This is asking the people who use the roads to help pay for maintaining it, and that price is cheap for a toll.

The bridge into New Orleans costs $3 per trip, I don't see how this toll is worth complaining about.

The toll to cross one of the main bridges here ranges from free to $4 per trip depending on time of day, and that's with the toll pass discount.

Austria is not too happy about the new tolls, and vows to fight this with the EU on discrimination grounds.

I think Austria is one of the last countries that should be complaining about this.

Austria has a vignette system that requires all motorists to pay a toll to travel on certain portions of their Autobahn.

It is not an additional cost to German drivers that is what Austria is saying. By law, here in the US, a state can't impose a toll on the complete interstate system. I mean there are examples of areas where some states tolled only one or two lanes of the interstate, but as a general rule, the costs of maintaining the infrastructure are supposed to only come from two sources, the fuel tax and vehicle registration fees.

A better analogy to your Interstate System example would be that the individual states of Germany (Bavaria, Baden-Wurttemburg, Berlin, Brandenburg, etc.) cannot impose their own toll on the Autobahn. The Federal government of Germany can though, just like the US government can set tolls on the Interstate System.

What Germany is proposing to do is more akin to the US imposing a toll on land crossings from Canada or Mexico. Wait, where have I heard that one before?

Germany, from what it sounds like, is imposing an additional registration fee on all foreign vehicles to be able to drive on German roads, that is what it stinks like.

I still don't see the issue where people who use the roads should help pay for the maintenance of the roads?

A fee they can deduct from their yearly vehicle tax. All in all, the Germans end up paying the same taxes as before, whereas foreigners have to pay more to use German roads. It's a grey area, though. We'll have to see what the bigwigs in Brussels say.

People talk about Germans "writing off" or "deducting" the toll from their registration, but I imagine the toll and registration is separated, meaning whether you pay for the toll or not will have no impact on your registration costs. I imagine what Germany will do is to make everyone who use the Autobahn pay the toll, but decrease the car registration fees by the same amount. However, those two will not be linked though, meaning that if you are a German driver but never drive on the Autobahn, then you still pay the lowered registration fee but you won't be required to purchase the toll. Since everyone pays the toll based solely on the condition that they drive on the Autobahn, it's completely non-discriminatory. What Germany charges its drivers vehicle registration fees becomes irrelevant.

I foresee that this will end up being the exact same system that Austria uses with their Vignette.

 

[Mark II Blit]

People talk about Germans "writing off" or "deducting" the toll from their registration, but I imagine the toll and registration is separated, meaning whether you pay for the toll or not will have no impact on your registration costs. I imagine what Germany will do is to make everyone who use the Autobahn pay the toll, but decrease the car registration fees by the same amount. However, those two will not be linked though, meaning that if you are a German driver but never drive on the Autobahn, then you still pay the lowered registration fee but you won't be required to purchase the toll. Since everyone pays the toll based solely on the condition that they drive on the Autobahn, it's completely non-discriminatory. What Germany charges its drivers vehicle registration fees becomes irrelevant.

I'm not saying I disagree, but the fact is that this piece of legislation was always about taxing foreign drivers and foreign drivers only. An important condition for the legislators who drafted this law was that the German motorists would not be burdened with more taxes. The project has long been known as 'Ausländermaut' (foreigner toll) in the media, and it is quite clear who this tax is directed at when you examine the rhetoric of the CSU, who campaigned heavily for the tax.

("If you pay road taxes in Austria, Italy and Switzerland, travellers from abroad should also pay us taxes.")​

However, they might be able to slip it past the EU by mixing vehicle tax and road pricing legislation, even though a similar 1992 case saw the European Court of Justice rule against Germany for implementing protectionist taxation of lorries based on the same concept (introducing road pricing while decreasing vehicle tax for natives).

 

[niky]

Germany, from what it sounds like, is imposing an additional registration fee on all foreign vehicles to be able to drive on German roads, that is what it stinks like.

It's a toll.

Take note: It may be a discriminatory toll, but it's still a toll.

While it may or may not be legal under EU rules... it doesn't exactly stink. For a long-distance cargo service that regularly goes through Germany, that's less than a Euro added per trip.

As I and others have said, we pay a lot more than that every day in toll fees.

Maintaining roads is expensive.

-

Legally, it falls afoul of this:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/road/road_charging/charging_hgv_en.htm

• National tolls and vignettes must be non-discriminatory, excessive rebates on tolls are forbidden;

But... there's a simple way around it. Lower the "official" German registration tax to reflect the amount paid for yearly toll.

And that's that.

 

[Imari]

Seems to me like a clever way to make sure that everyone using the Autobahn pays for it, whilst not falling afoul of the EU discrimination laws.

Currently, the Germans pay for the Autobahn and everyone else gets to use it for free, so anything to rectify that is going to be discriminatory by nature. Ignoring the fact that the original policy discriminates against Germans, but using their taxes to pay for the roads and not taxing any other motorists.

This is one of those rare situations where two wrongs make a right. The original policy discriminated against Germans. The change to the new policy discriminates against foreigners, meaning that everyone gets discriminated against equally, removing the discrimination.

I say bravo. I'd love to hear any rational arguments against the move that aren't a bunch of sour grapes.

 

[Tornado]

But... there's a simple way around it. Lower the "official" German registration tax to reflect the amount paid for yearly toll.

And that's that.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't just do that to begin with. I wonder if they are trying to do a shell game US states do with can returns, where what they're really hoping is that people just won't bother with the hassle and the German government can pocket the money.

 

[hawkeye122]

$13USD is enough for 2-3 tolls in in the Bay Area. Obviously FastTrack is cheaper but still. If I'm not careful I can get a $13 toll bill in one day, much less a week. Quit complaining

 

[kikie]

A hundred Euros for a year-long toll for an entire country?

That's cheaper than any toll rate I pay.

It's very expensive to what we have been use to, so far. >> Nada, nothing, free, etc... .

$13 isn't really that expensive for 10 days. I'm only saying that because my daily commute this summer puts me on a toll road that costs $5 round-trip every day.

No, it's not that expensive but it is an extra cost for people who want to drive on the 'ring for a few laps.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

That system seems fair to me, if the money used does actually go toward road maintenance.

I'd love to see that happen here! Although we get screwed for vehicle registration and pay a toll which goes to councils and gets spent on a guy called Malcolm picking up an empty coke can off the street.

 

[Blitz24]

$13 for a 10 day pass? It costs $13 to go over the George Washington Bridge.
Heck, it costs more to go over the Verrazano Bridge! (Provided you are going from Brooklyn into Staten Island).